The Back 5 - Still Not Convinced

This has been bothering me all summer and I can't say that the pending signing of Dejan Lovren is doing much to alleviate my fears for the defensive part of our game. First things first, I think most of us realise it is going to be tough to score 100 goals again next season without Luis Suarez in the side, sure we might still score a bunch but I don't foresee us hitting the heights of last season. So with that in mind, it's clear things have to tighten up a the back, in fact I have read numerous posts from good posters speculating about a gameplan that involves more defensive solidity allied to the exciting group of attacking players that we still have at the club. Makes perfect sense to me and it should be achievable BUT I think we will have defensive problems again this season.

Starting with the centre-halves. Just about every top Premier League club have a CB who is an out and out number one, an absolute boss of a player. The mancs have had a bunch of them, Staam, Vidic, Pallister, even Ferddinand fits the bill, City. City have Kompany, Chelsea have Terry. spurs even had a very good one in Ledley King before his injuries kicked in. Typically they are very strong in the air, dominant against most and able to match up to the best headers of a ball in the country (ie. your Carroll's, Fellaini's etc), but are also able to match up well on the deck against the quicker, more nimble players you see in the Premier League. They also tend to be vocal players who keep full-backs in check, ball at midfielders and aren't afraid to have a pop at the keeper if its necessary. 

Our problem is we don't have a number one anymore. I can see lots of Gary Cahill's (in fact we are about to buy another one of them in Lovren) but we don't have a John Terry.

Just to break them down:

Skrtel - he has had a fair crack at being our number one defender and t be fair to him, Kenny's full season he was fantastic, best in the league behind Kompany for me that season. Problem is he plays like a striker for me, and by that I don't mean as an actual striker (despite his 7 goals) but he runs hot and cold, his form fluctuates the way a forward's does. He can be an absolute behemoth for 6-7 games, unbeatable, dominant in the air, reads the game, solid on the deck and plays like the best in the league and then BANG he will string together 3 or 4 shockers. It's no coincidence he has always looked a better player when he had Carra barking in his ear. I love him when he's on form but I think he simply has too many errors in him, particularly in a set up where he plays so hi all the time.

Sakho - I guess this is the man that Brendan sees as our number one defender, he's got the physical stamp you would want from a number one, big strong lad and pretty quick as well, he is a REAL defender in many ways but somehow I'm not convinced,  want to be but I watch him a few times in the World Cup and he looked the weak link n that French team for me. He looks to have some of the same traits as Skrtel ie. he is rash at times, he goes to ground early, can over commit and like Skittles is also prone to the odd poor decision when he has the ball. And while he seems to be pretty good in the air. Don't think he is our best header of a ball and he should be. Is he a talker? An organiser? I haven't seen that so far. I know quite a few in here think he will be the main man but for £22 million I'm hoping to see a lot more from him next season.

The two above are the only candidates for your number one centre-half IMHO. The others are all number 2 players for me.

Agger - Always liked him but have always felt he was the most over-rated player at the club by a lot of the fan-base. And by overrated i mean he often gets labelled as great when he is really just a good player. His composure and comfort on the ball can overshadow his defensive deficiencies ie. he is no better than average in the air, he struggles at set pieces (in terms of losing his man and consequently Goals) and he can be bullied (see the job Drogba did on him in the 07 Champions League Semi 1st leg). He is for me the consummate number 2 centre-half, very much a Carvhallo type (although not as good IMO) but the issue is (once again) no John Terry type to play next to him.

Lovren - I've watched a few vids on this lad since we were first linked and he looks a good player. Quick, nimble, likes to play on the front foot (not unlike Sakho and Skrtel in this respect) and he also looks like a talker and an organiser. similarly to Agger at 6'2 he doesn't look to be the best of headers but (like Dagger) he is a ball player who can bring it out and play a few passes as well. I uses the gaffer is looking at a potential Sakho-Lovren partnership but they are both lefties and its very rare to see that at the very top level.

The others - Funnily enough Toure was probably our best defender those first 5-6 games last season before his injury. He was winning his air share up top, kept it simple when he won it and provided the leadership and organisation that we were missing following Carragher's retirement. Unfortunately he wasn't quite the same player when he came back and in truth we probably could have done with him two years earlier. Coates has been back in this pre-season and he looked alright the other night, I think he is a good player, who knows maybe a better option than Sakho but you suspect he doesn't quite fit the Rodgers mould of a CB given that he isn't the quickest and is a bit slow on the turn for playing a high line press.

So what about the full-backs?

It's funny because I often read criticism of our full-backs last season and often the suggestion was that if we change them we wouldn't be letting in so many goals, they often copped more flack than the CBs (particularly Johnson) which was probably off the mark for me. Full-backs often need to be told what to do ie. when to press, when to tuck in, when to stand up. Not because they are stupid but because your centre-halves (and your keeper) have the best and fullest view of the pitch, they see (or should see) the big picture and being privileged with this view-point they should be telling everybody else what the fuc....k they should be doing and where they should be. Again I'm not sure we have this in the side since Carra retired.

Flanno - I really like Flanno at left-back. He is another proper defender but he is quite clever and canny for a youngster (been watching Carea I bet), he's strong and (for the most part) he makes up for his lack of pace with positional awareness. I would be happy enough to see him win the starting job In there this season. I'm not particularly excited by the idea of Bertrand coming in and the lad Moreno didn't especially do it for me, it felt like Brendan was trying to get a better ATTACKING player when what we really need is a back 5 who can defend first.

Jonno - he had a tough year didn't he, got pilloried on here that's for sure! Justified at times, others much less so I think. I still like him as a player and if he can get fit and stay fit he can still be the man at RB. Although I'm not sure what is going on with his contract situation? There hasn't been any talk of a new deal so perhaps he will be off close to transfer window.

Goal-keepers - I would agree that Mignolet was an upgrade on Pepe, or at least on the Reina of 2010-2012. Some of his shot stopping was fantastic and despite a shaky start he got better and more assertive when it came to coming for crosses and set pieces (I still think this aspect has to get better mind) but following the communication theme, I do not think he is the voice on the pitch that you need from your keeper. As I said before, best view of the pitch and usually the tallest bugger on it an all! There is also no denying that he is poor with the ball at his feet, certainly not the sweeper keeper we expected Brendan to go after. All in all I like him but still have some doubts. I think that first and foremost he needs competition and Brad Jones isn't it. I would actually keep Pepe this season and let them fight it out. Reina is a good pro so it can work. Don't think it will happen though. I was disappointed to hear that Vorm is going to Spurs, he would have been a very good option to come in as a competitive back up.

So In summary. I think we still have problems, I don't think the manager would agree mind. Centre-halves are all a out having the right partnership. Sami and Carra worked because Sami was first ball player and Carra was your consummate number 2 who was all about blocks, mop up tackles, reading the game well and diagnosing problems before they happened. He also happened to be a nasty bast...ard who hated losing and talked all game. I can't see a partnership back there that doesn't have it's issues and coupled with some doubts at GK and FB it does seem to me that we're spending a lot of money on attacking players when our struggles were all at the other end of the pitch last season.

Sorry it's a long one! Home alone and bored tonight (until the baby wakes up!)

I think you need to include Gerrard in that too. While a great player (I know I will get stick for this) but when the full backs push forwards, they will leave space, Gerrard drops deep as we play a back 3. I honestly think Gerrard needs to improve his defence work if we are to improve.

Dejan lovren will improve our organisation, and he is the sort of defender that sorts Rodgers' style, I just think Gerrard will need to improve defensively if we are to really make a big step forward with the amount of goals we concede. I know I'll get stick from those who say Gerrard does no wrong, but he is the deepest midfielder in our team, and needs to clear the danger as well as be our deeper playmaker,

Also having Glen Johnson in better form and Jose Enrique fit will make an immense difference too.

Mignolet being more dominate in the box would make a big difference too. Just think it's about everyone making a small improvement and it'll make a significant difference. As we conceded many sloppy goals last season.

I think you need to include Gerrard in that too. While a great player (I know I will get stick for this) but when the full backs push forwards, they will leave space, Gerrard drops deep as we play a back 3. I honestly think Gerrard needs to improve his defence work if we are to improve.

Dejan lovren will improve our organisation, and he is the sort of defender that sorts Rodgers' style, I just think Gerrard will need to improve defensively if we are to really make a big step forward with the amount of goals we concede. I know I'll get stick from those who say Gerrard does no wrong, but he is the deepest midfielder in our team

Without a doubt, you can't absolve your midfielders of blame because they all play a part. I actually thought Gerrard did very well back there (once he got a few games under his belt) in the holding role. It was tough on him at times as the only holder but that one (if it proves an issue this season) will be on the manager because he knows that Stevie doesn't possess the physical attributes of his youth Nd unfortunately for us there is no way of reversing that.

Just staying with the midfield, you only have to look at some of our excellent defensive seasons in the past. In 2008-09 we were very stingy at the back and Carra (plus any of Sami, Skrtel, Agger) rightly got the plaudits but of course they had the protection of Alonso and Mascherano. Likewise a player like John Terry has always played in a Chelsea side steeped in Mourinho tactics of not over-committing in attack and preventing games for becoming stretched and open. Terry may well have struggled playing in our back 4 last season.

Cracking OP.

To keep it as simple as possible I'd evaluate each as follows:

Mignolet: Not dominant enough therefore requires defense to drop deeper. Doesn't command his box or act in any way like a sweeper keeper. I've little doubt that Brendan wants to play with a progressive line of defense that can squeeze the play inside the opposition half of the pitch but for that to happen I truly believe we may have to upgrade on Migs.

Skrtel: Your summary Scott is spot on and exactly why I've never been convinced by Skrtel apart from under Kenny. His consistency is terrible and his own-goal scoring record is way beyond co-incidence he gets himself in awful positions on crosses.

Agger: With the right person next to him he can be outstanding but as you rightly say he's not the dominant half of a partnership. His flaws on set-pieces are well documented and for that simply needs to be give less responsibility on them. You don't put a guy that you know will struggle against a great aerial threat marking them, that's our defensive coaching responsibility. When the goal goes in you don't say in the interview afterwards "we need to be stronger etc etc" we need to be smarter with who we place marking them.

Sakho: Confidence, when he's high on it he's a monster, when he makes a mistake he melts. He's young and I expect that will improve as he settles too. High hopes for the lad.

Lovren: Clearly Brendan's idea of the answer to the leader and dominant centre half, I'd like to see a Lovren-Agger/Sakho combination.

Toure: Started well, played out of position constantly after that and his confidence went to sh*t, management has to take a portion of that responsibility as it was clear he was a fish out of water on that left side.

Full-backs: Disagree they need micro managing, they should be smart enough to know when to sprint to get back and when to walk. Johnson was seen countless times not putting in the effort to get back at the speed he was going forward. Hope we get someone in because he's been awful for 18 months and we've carried the lad. Flanno is young but clearly a weakness and yes I do believe that either a better RB or LB last season and we'd have won the league.

Summary: Our defense has been a mess since Brendan took over. We haven't looked confident in defending crosses in any game I've watched. His signings have not solved the problem so far and it might be time he took a look at one decision I believe he got wrong and that was sending Reina out on loan. If we were to start with Reina my confidence in our defense would increase massively, granted we may concede more shots but in every other aspect I believe he would be an improvement on Migs and also the confidence that extra dominance gives the defenders would pay off. It's a big decision as it's clear we're undergoing a massive overhaul at the back, which I'm pleased to see.

By all accounts it could well be just one of the defenders we had last year starting against Southampton:

                        Reina
Manquillo     Lovren    Sakho    Moreno

but I actually expect to see us line up like this:

                        Migs
Johnson      Lovren    Sakho    Moreno

Big pressure on the defence to pick up the slack, their deficiencies were hidden under the rug that was a magnificent attack last year. I wont bring Stevie into this, but having Can as an option is a massive plus.

Great post Scott and something which worries me leading up to the new season.

I'm not convinced by Mignolet and as I've mentioned in the player threads, due to a lack of vocal leaders in the squad I would personally pick Pepe ahead of him at this moment in time. Both are good shot stoppers but prone to mistakes.

Think Flanno should start at right back over Johnson any day. Glen has gone so far backwards the last couple of seasons its frightening.

Centre backs Ive got no idea. For me Skrtel is the best we have, Agger like Johnson is going backwards and cant see Toure being here much longer. Not convinced Lovren is the answer as I've only seen him play 3 or 4 times. I'm nowhere near sure about Sakho either.

Left back, has to be Enrique unless we bring someone else in.

I'd start like this

                  Pepe

Flanno  Skrtel    Lovren   Enrique

but think Brendan will go with

              Mignolet

Glen     Lovren  Sakho    Flanno

Great post Scott and something which worries me leading up to the new season.

I'm not convinced by Mignolet and as I've mentioned in the player threads, due to a lack of vocal leaders in the squad I would personally pick Pepe ahead of him at this moment in time. Both are good shot stoppers but prone to mistakes.

Think Flanno should start at right back over Johnson any day. Glen has gone so far backwards the last couple of seasons its frightening.

Centre backs Ive got no idea. For me Skrtel is the best we have, Agger like Johnson is going backwards and cant see Toure being here much longer. Not convinced Lovren is the answer as I've only seen him play 3 or 4 times. I'm nowhere near sure about Sakho either.

Left back, has to be Enrique unless we bring someone else in.

I'd start like this

                  Pepe

Flanno  Skrtel    Lovren   Enrique

but think Brendan will go with

              Mignolet

Glen     Lovren  Sakho    Flanno

Thank god BR knows better than you by not picking Skrtel, he is a perfect last ditch defender but in terms of anticipation and playing a high line he just invites the opposition to attack.

Thank god BR knows better than you by not picking Skrtel, he is a perfect last ditch defender but in terms of anticipation and playing a high line he just invites the opposition to attack.

How often do we play a high line? Skrtel's errors last season were more the defending set pieces and OG's then getting caught for pace for example.

In the big games, especially in Europe this season surely we are going to sit deep and counter attack with the pace we have up top.

How often do we play a high line? Skrtel's errors last season were more the defending set pieces and OG's then getting caught for pace for example.

In the big games, especially in Europe this season surely we are going to sit deep and counter attack with the pace we have up top.

Maybe the reason why BR is looking at signing players who can not only anticipate the danger but have the confidence and skill to deed our fearsome attack rather than playing the ball back to the keeper.

No point sitting deep if the opp arises to attack but the ball goes back to Mig?

Good OP. If the Lovren (if we sign him) Sahko partnership is going to be the one many advocate it's important IMO to get them playing as many games together in pre-season. They have to form an understanding and communicative partnership together and this takes time. I also think, having Enrique back not sure if Rodgers fancies him though will help a lot to solidify our defense, overall.

As the OP stated, 'in-play' we now have perhaps any extra midfielder like Can? who can fortify the defense so this will/should help.

But the other concern is defending from set-pieces and corners and I don't think we've done this well since Hyypia left, we've never replaced that number 1 defender Scottbot talks about. I have to say, Mignolet doesn't help here either. I had hoped he'd have grown a bit in confidence and assurance as last season went on (when the first signs of a timid keeper were exhibited by him) but it never eventuated and only exacerbated our issues from high balls into the box. I remember at least on two separate occasions (1 away against Fulham) where Skertel rightly went ballistic at him when we conceded what looked like a run of the meal hopeful lob into the box. Mig's stayed rooted to his line, Skertel blasted him when the ball hit the back of the net. This aspect of our game is a serious issue and I suspect it will continue to be.

Also, due to injuries and what not, we saw quite a bit of chopping and changing with our CB's last season I thought, and consistency never really flourished IMO which I think is important - the same as getting Lovren & Sahko together early on in pre-season ready for the start of the season ahead. And IMO the other CB's who don't feature should be sitting on the bench for long periods next season, baring injury of course, chopping and changing to keep Agger or Skertel happy won't be a good method IMO. I think it's the most important position on the field that requires a solid, long-running partnership, like the Henchoz-Hyypia and Hyypia - Carragher one's were.

It's unfair not to include Gerrard into this discussion, as the defensive side of a midfield contributes significantly toward the resilience of a defence. Obviously Gerrard is a wonderful player and more a deep lying playmaker than a true defensive midfielder, but technically he is our most defensive midfielder in the team so we have to see how he effects our defence.

Our team back some years ago (defensive players)

                      Reina
Arbeloa  Hyypia  Carra   Aurelio
               Alonso  Masch

Something that is immediately noticeable is how vocal these players were. Reina, Hyypia and Carragher were all leaders on the pitch. Xabi Alonso's defensive work was underrated. His tackling and interception rate was incredible, and then you had Mascherano who was the best defensive midfielder in the league and still would be if he returned.

The finger has been pointed to our back four for a while now. While I agree that it needs improving, you've got to wonder are players like Skrtel, Agger and Sakho that bad defensively? I'm not entirely sure they are. Our lack of defensive contribution from midfield undermined our defence last season, and BR made it clear that he's always going to favour an attacking style of play to a defensive style of play. We need to improve our defence, sure, but if Gerrard remains as our most defensive minded midfielder then I cannot see us being a rock at the back.

Something that hasn't been mentioned here so far is our style of football last season and how out attacking approach left is more open and vulnerable than most teams to conceding.

Personally I wouldn't like to trade that just to make us a little more secure at the back as I think we almost won the league by playing this way.

Something that hasn't been mentioned here so far is our style of football last season and how out attacking approach left is more open and vulnerable than most teams to conceding.

Personally I wouldn't like to trade that just to make us a little more secure at the back as I think we almost won the league by playing this way.

I think we were playing to our strengths last season, I am not so sure that is still our main strength mate. Last season our two strikers scored over 50 goals between them.... I am not so sure our 5 front players will equal that total this season.

If we bring in another prolific striker I think we can play in a similar fashion to last season, if we don't I think we need to strengthen other areas to help make up for the shortfall.   

Think we'd more probs with FBs than CBs. With some FBs back from injury, and if we can sign a good FB, that will reinforce things. And Lovren in for Toure is an improvement.
But with BR we'll always be attack minded, which has to leave us more open at the back than say the Chavs who with Maureen are boring workmanlike bas**rds who don't conceed many. And I'd choose BR every day of the week.

Something that hasn't been mentioned here so far is our style of football last season and how out attacking approach left is more open and vulnerable than most teams to conceding.

Personally I wouldn't like to trade that just to make us a little more secure at the back as I think we almost won the league by playing this way.

Without a doubt Si, it has a huge impact BUT I would cast an eye on City last season, scored more league goals than us, played with two up front just as often and were just as adventurous but were far more solid at the back. No doubt the system/style of play and the midfield come into it but the biggest questions for me still revolve around the quality of our defenders and whether we have the right balance back there.

Good OP. If the Lovren (if we sign him) Sahko partnership is going to be the one many advocate it's important IMO to get them playing as many games together in pre-season. They have to form an understanding and communicative partnership together and this takes time. I also think, having Enrique back not sure if Rodgers fancies him though will help a lot to solidify our defense, overall.As the OP stated, 'in-play' we now have perhaps any extra midfielder like Can? who can fortify the defense so this will/should help.But the other concern is defending from set-pieces and corners and I don't think we've done this well since Hyypia left, we've never replaced that number 1 defender Scottbot talks about. I have to say, Mignolet doesn't help here either. I had hoped he'd have grown a bit in confidence and assurance as last season went on (when the first signs of a timid keeper were exhibited by him) but it never eventuated and only exacerbated our issues from high balls into the box. I remember at least on two separate occasions (1 away against Fulham) where Skertel rightly went ballistic at him when we conceded what looked like a run of the meal hopeful lob into the box. Mig's stayed rooted to his line, Skertel blasted him when the ball hit the back of the net. This aspect of our game is a serious issue and I suspect it will continue to be.Also, due to injuries and what not, we saw quite a bit of chopping and changing with our CB's last season I thought, and consistency never really flourished IMO which I think is important - the same as getting Lovren & Sahko together early on in pre-season ready for the start of the season ahead. And IMO the other CB's who don't feature should be sitting on the bench for long periods next season, baring injury of course, chopping and changing to keep Agger or Skertel happy won't be a good method IMO. I think it's the most important position on the field that requires a solid, long-running partnership, like the Henchoz-Hyypia and Hyypia - Carragher one's were.

I have to completely agree with this. It's obvious we never replaced the Hyppia-Carra partnership. Plus, even though Pepe faded in his last season, he was still much more of a talker than Migno.

So, the two biggest things we have been missing at the back imo are leadership and stability (in abundance under hyppia-henchoz or hyppia-carra).

Skrtl was immense at times last season, but we seriously cannot afford his terribly defending at set pieces or god forbid, his non-stop shirt pulling. Sakho is a rough diamond but he is young and would probably develop a lot better alongside a more confident, talkative and organisational Lovren. We have to build the back on those two. Skrtl will have to accept that we have grown as a club and he will have to play a bit part...for now.

I have been a fan of Agger for a  long time, but he has to play regularly to be back at his best and he's been too injury prone. So I think he will have to settle for a squad role, playing in cups and covering for injuries. I wouldn't get rid of him because he is versatile and we'll need that with the number of games.

I honestly don't think we need moreno, but if we had him, i wouldn't complain. flanno and enriquez would do just fine for me for rb and lb (johnson can do one, had enough of his non-existent defensive duties). what's happening with kelly and wisdom?

We can talk about individuals but we should also consider the way we play does include a degree of risk, as we saw again last night, BR asks players to be brave on the ball, this will result in mistakes being made, Sure we can improve the quality of those in the team but under BR we need to understand that there is always going to be an element where we will be quite open at time.

Personally I feel we are in need of two strong wing backs as i would like to see us adapt a 3-5-2 this season to help Sturridge as i don't feel he can be as prolific as last season as a lone striker.

Therefore for me i would like to see three center backs start, my three would be  Skrtel    Lovren   Sakho.

Skrtel - Solid in the air, brilliant at reading the play and good with the ball, the mistakes he does make are majorly due to his rashness and eagerness to defend, this can be coached out of him i feel and with a set amount of games with the same defensive players his familiarity and trust in his other center backs will slowly prevent this from reoccurring regularly.

Lovren - Not seen much of him, but like Sakho his price tag suggests he is a starter and Rodgers places him in high regard, Rodgers has already mentioned his leadership qualities which will be beneficial and may help Skrtel also. In Sakho and Skrtel we have two physical center backs who are strong in the air, in Lovren we have a strong quick center back whom can is good with his feet and can start attacks. He seems confident on the ball hence why i would play him centrally.

Sakho - For me is underated already at the club and yes he has been shaky at times but his leadership qualities as Lovrens will be essential if we are to keep a solid unit at the back. For me he is our best tackler and reads the game very well. He starts ahead of Agger for me because of his brute strength and aggression, he may not be as comfortable on the ball but he always looks to play a positive pass which can only be encouraging.

The reason i wouldn't start Agger is over recent years i feel he has become complacent on the ball, too many wayward passes and he doesn't seem as strong in a tackle nor in the air, his good with the ball but we need more than that in our center backs, we need leaders and the three i named i think will lead by example.

Ideally i would like Moreno on the left wing back flank (or Enrique/Robinson if he doesn't sign) and if we can't get another right back i would rather see Henderson on the right flank than Johnson, as much as Henderson likes his central position, for me he would be far more beneficial down the right hand channel, bombing forward and backwards like Kuyt for the Netherlands.

So yeah that's my reasoning for

                     Skrtel                  Lovren              Sakho




Hendo/Flanagan                                                            Moreno/Enrique/Robinson

jeeezo. bring back Carra !  .

Given that the Ox and Soldado skint Agger last year and that he was bullied by Bony you'd have to say that his days are numbered whatever happens. I can see him going to Italy or Spain. Classy as he is this league is all about pace and power.
Skrtel always gets pushed back which is a huge problem but he is a bit of a rock, and gets goals. A worthy standby alongside Ilori whose performance against Messi and co last year was amazing.
Sakho and Lovren are French speaking which is vital. It's why Silva wanted Alex and now Luiz at PSG.
If we don't sell Borini, Agger, Reina, Assaidi, Coates and the likes I am not sure we ll have the money for Moreno. You have to place a striker as being a more important acquisition. You may well end up with
Mig/Jones
Johnson/Manquillo          Lovren/Sakho/Skrtel/Ilori       Flanagan/Enrique

as your choices, or even a cut price option like Bertrand. I suspect we'll try to trim the squad and Moreno will go down to deadline day. You have to hope that given;
1. Flanagan and Johnson were in the 11 that got us second most of the time
2. Enrique is better than Cissokho
3. Lovren/Sakho looks like a good combination
4. Can can take some of the workload from Gerrard

that we will be better off defensively, even if we don't sign Moreno.

We may be tighter as well because there ll be less of a need to shoehorn two strikers in. The question is whether Lallana, Markovic and whoever displaces Remy will contribute enough to make up for Suarez' loss-improvement in defence which is still a massive gap..

Given that the Ox and Soldado skint Agger last year and that he was bullied by Bony you'd have to say that his days are numbered whatever happens. I can see him going to Italy or Spain. Classy as he is this league is all about pace and power.
Skrtel always gets pushed back which is a huge problem but he is a bit of a rock, and gets goals. A worthy standby alongside Ilori whose performance against Messi and co last year was amazing.
Sakho and Lovren are French speaking which is vital. It's why Silva wanted Alex and now Luiz at PSG.
If we don't sell Borini, Agger, Reina, Assaidi, Coates and the likes I am not sure we ll have the money for Moreno. You have to place a striker as being a more important acquisition. You may well end up with
Mig/Jones
Johnson/Manquillo          Lovren/Sakho/Skrtel/Ilori       Flanagan/Enrique

as your choices, or even a cut price option like Bertrand. I suspect we'll try to trim the squad and Moreno will go down to deadline day. You have to hope that given;
1. Flanagan and Johnson were in the 11 that got us second most of the time
2. Enrique is better than Cissokho
3. Lovren/Sakho looks like a good combination
4. Can can take some of the workload from Gerrard

that we will be better off defensively, even if we don't sign Moreno.

We may be tighter as well because there ll be less of a need to shoehorn two strikers in. The question is whether Lallana, Markovic and whoever displaces Remy will contribute enough to make up for Suarez' loss-improvement in defence which is still a massive gap..

Yes it's better, but by how much?

We conceded 50 goals last PL campaign. Obviously we need to improve SIGNIFICANTLY in the defensive regions. I'm not sure Enrique or Lovren add's to that. Bring in Rojo and a top RB and there is significant improvement almost instantly. Bring in Mascherano and we'd be laughing.

Yes it's better, but by how much?

We conceded 50 goals last PL campaign. Obviously we need to improve SIGNIFICANTLY in the defensive regions. I'm not sure Enrique or Lovren add's to that. Bring in Rojo and a top RB and there is significant improvement almost instantly. Bring in Mascherano and we'd be laughing.

So basically just bring in players you thought played well during the World Cup?!

The truth is our defenders aren't as good as people make them out to be.

They're probably all capable of looking like world beaters when they're in a good team in the way Aurelio did for us in 08/09. An average player's deficiencies are hidden a lot more in a good team. Arbeloa, Hyypia and Carragher (as well as Reina at his best) was a world class back line that could make up for Aurelio's averageness. (although he too was overrated on this site). And I think if any of our back five were in that side, they'd probably look better than what they are.

They're also probably too good to look sh*t in a side that is F***ing awful, i.e. Johnson at Pompey. He was still average but average there looked like a world beater which is why we forked out 17 million on him.

But because all our defenders at this time fall into that "average" category, they collectively look poor. And are often caught out. One prime example of this for me is Insua. When he played in 08-09 he looked set to be our left back for years and years to come, then the following season when the backline was Johnson, Skrtel, Carragher, Insua he was shown up much more because the defence was average.

We can't deal with the big burly centre forward. They just simply bully our defenders. But that has been a problem with us for years. Our defending set pieces just gets worse. Every time the opposition have a corner or free kick near the box, I'm expecting them to get a free header at goal. Pace is a constant problem. Positioning another. Basic defensive work is where we are fundamentally going wrong.

The keeper doesn't help either because as good a shot stopper as Mignolet is, he doesn't command his area. He flaps at crosses and looks a nervous wreck when the ball is at his feet. I don't think the defence have a huge amount of confidence in him, likewise I don't think he does in them.

I wouldn't be surprised if we did revert to the three at the back next year, Lovren - Skrtel - Sakho. Will that make us any more solid at the back? I doubt it if I'm honest. I don't rate Skrtel or Sakho as highly as some do, I think they're both ok. Lovren, while he looks good at Southampton, has yet to prove himself. He could be one of those who shines in a mid-table team. I don't think that'll be the case because he looks a very good defender from what I've seen but he has to do for it Liverpool first before I'm gonna be singing his praises too highly.

I also think that at the end of the day, we're a team set up to attack. Our best players are all attack minded and at their best when attacking. Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge are all better on the offence. Even our full backs (Johnson & Enrique) look more comfortable going forward. So a team has to play to a team's strength, ours is attacking so F**k it let's just go gung ho and does what works for us - attack.

Attack! Attack! Attack, attack, attack!

You need quality defenders but also need to defend well as a team. I wouldn't say that Dimicheles or Clichy are that great and neither is Hart a great goalie but they are all reigning league winners. Kompany also had an average season..