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      Dejan Lovren (Liverpool > Zenit St Petersburg)

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      srslfc
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #161: Oct 20, 2014 10:43:27 pm
      I have my ideas on why but I don't see him essentially doing anything about it as that's not the type of coach he is.. I think we have to accept it under Brendan.

      It's how I see it as well Jon.

      Difference being this season is we are struggling at the other end which only highlights our poor defending more than it did at timeslast season.

      My only real criticism is the amount Brendan seems to be changing his back fout this season and much prefer he just settled on a four and gave them a run of games as he only really changed the CB last season when an injury occured.

      Dadorious
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #162: Oct 21, 2014 12:27:30 am
      It's how I see it as well Jon.

      Difference being this season is we are struggling at the other end which only highlights our poor defending more than it did at timeslast season.

      My only real criticism is the amount Brendan seems to be changing his back fout this season and much prefer he just settled on a four and gave them a run of games as he only really changed the CB last season when an injury occured.



      Agree Si our struggles at the other end are only highlighting what a shambles we are defensively no improvement on last year from a defensive perspective.

      Rotation has not helped our cause our strongest back four that needs time to bed in is Manquilo, Skrtel, Lovren and Moreno. Johnson is a liabillity at the back and is consistent in his errors i.e. poor marking, positioning and tracking back.

      Lovren like any other new signing should be given the benefit of doubt and some time, let's judge in 6-12 months time.

      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #163: Oct 21, 2014 12:51:19 am


      Absolutely awful positioning. Worse than schoolboy stuff. That's your centre half with 6 players behind him.

      Shocking from Lovren and Enrique there!
      AussieRed
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #164: Oct 21, 2014 07:12:18 am
      Shocking from Lovren and Enrique there!

      I wish I could find a replay of the build up to that goal.. Jose had rings run around him and I blame him as much as Lovren for that shocking defensive display.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #165: Oct 21, 2014 11:23:46 am
      Of course mate.

      I would suggest he brings in a defensive coach to coach the team for set-pieces alone. To highlight how good a team can be with average players look no further than Stoke. You don't need to be lumping the ball in the fashion of Stoke to adopt Stoke like tactics at set-pieces and we fail consistently on them.

      I think he's too proud to do that and is convinced the problem is down to individual errors hence why he continually changes personnel. I was happy he was bringing in another CB this window gone because I was hoping it was just personnel, but it's gone that stage too far for me now I believe the problem is much deeper.

      In general play I'd be looking to bring in a proper defensive midfielder. Someone like Khedira or one of the Benders, I think we are exposed in the middle far too often and that isn't purely the fault of the CB's or coaching it is that we simply don't have the legs there now.

       .

      Interesting post as usual Luke.. You make some very good points

      However for the sake of balance and how I see it from simply a position of what we have and who we are as opposed to what i personally would want us to do I don't actually believe it's a pride thing I just think it's the way the manager sees the game.
      I'll try to explain what I mean.

      Brendan sees the game as something to win on the front foot, to control the ball better so they can't hurt you without it, he sees the game won by attacking, he will work on that for 90% of his training sessions, getting better and better at what he wants and how he sees it. You mention Stoke, fair point, it made me think you are genuinely on to something however with Stoke, under Pulis especially 90% of their training time would be on being hard to play against, being solid and tough to break down, working on set peices in both areas, he would have worked them on on that every day, day in day out with little time being paid to attacking time, his idea was to win the ball get it forward, win the second ball, nick free kicks and then go from there on the set peices or long throws they have worked on.
      Under Hughes they have come away from that, are trying to play a bit more and are easier to play against.
      Everton the same, under Moyes they would work on being solid for the majority and under Martinez they look to play and are now less effective at the back and a more soft touch than previously under Moyes.

      Football is constant now, with rest and recovery there is less time to train during the week so managers work on their core ideas in the time they have, Brendan as I said before sees the game as something to win rather than not to lose, he has tried to fix it by changing personnel rather than system and maybe that will work in the long term. He won't for me change his view on the game nor his training sessions.. Is that stubborn? Arrogant? Yes but all managers are with their own personal view of the game.
      Rafa was tactically superb at winning games by shutting the opposition out and then expecting the quality at the other end to do something special.. Stay solid, get it to Xabi who could see any pass, from stopping the opponents to getting it through Steven and Nando in a split movement.. But solid as a key.
      I could guarantee you that these CBS would look far better under Rafa as he would coach that aspect for the majority of his sessions.

      A coach can't be everything to everyone, he has his vision and works to it.

      The famous recent Barca side were superb at keeping the ball and working angles.. Winning their way but weren't great at set peices against, were bullied by sides like the Chelsea one at times.

      For me? I'll be utterly honest, I prefer the Rafa approach to Football rather than Brendan's, it's more subtle, it's more smart for me than Brendan's which is a little bit more in your face and obvious.
      However I also believe and support any manager to approach the game anyway he sees it and I don't think Brendan should ultimately change his tactics to counter others.
      We just have to get better at Brendan's.

      You know the odd thing though, up until the qpr game I think we had been conceding less chances in open play this year.. Set peices are a different matter but I think one of the main issues is the keeper and his starting point being so deep which pushes the defence right on him which leaves little room for error if you fail to win the header.

      In terms of set peices? Lads that's the ball, F***ing win the first header
      racerx34
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #166: Oct 21, 2014 11:29:09 am
      Racer may well be right in highlighting that Shneiderlin and Wanyama could have shielded him last season because those that have watched him elsewhere say that his Saints form was the exception rather than the rule to how he's played for other clubs.

      Still gutted we didn't sign Schneiderlin.
      Was convinced we were going for him and Lallana.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #167: Oct 21, 2014 12:51:12 pm
      Interesting post as usual Luke.. You make some very good points

      However for the sake of balance and how I see it from simply a position of what we have and who we are as opposed to what i personally would want us to do I don't actually believe it's a pride thing I just think it's the way the manager sees the game.
      I'll try to explain what I mean.

      Brendan sees the game as something to win on the front foot, to control the ball better so they can't hurt you without it, he sees the game won by attacking, he will work on that for 90% of his training sessions, getting better and better at what he wants and how he sees it. You mention Stoke, fair point, it made me think you are genuinely on to something however with Stoke, under Pulis especially 90% of their training time would be on being hard to play against, being solid and tough to break down, working on set peices in both areas, he would have worked them on on that every day, day in day out with little time being paid to attacking time, his idea was to win the ball get it forward, win the second ball, nick free kicks and then go from there on the set peices or long throws they have worked on.
      Under Hughes they have come away from that, are trying to play a bit more and are easier to play against.
      Everton the same, under Moyes they would work on being solid for the majority and under Martinez they look to play and are now less effective at the back and a more soft touch than previously under Moyes.

      Football is constant now, with rest and recovery there is less time to train during the week so managers work on their core ideas in the time they have, Brendan as I said before sees the game as something to win rather than not to lose, he has tried to fix it by changing personnel rather than system and maybe that will work in the long term. He won't for me change his view on the game nor his training sessions.. Is that stubborn? Arrogant? Yes but all managers are with their own personal view of the game.
      Rafa was tactically superb at winning games by shutting the opposition out and then expecting the quality at the other end to do something special.. Stay solid, get it to Xabi who could see any pass, from stopping the opponents to getting it through Steven and Nando in a split movement.. But solid as a key.
      I could guarantee you that these CBS would look far better under Rafa as he would coach that aspect for the majority of his sessions.

      A coach can't be everything to everyone, he has his vision and works to it.

      The famous recent Barca side were superb at keeping the ball and working angles.. Winning their way but weren't great at set peices against, were bullied by sides like the Chelsea one at times.

      For me? I'll be utterly honest, I prefer the Rafa approach to Football rather than Brendan's, it's more subtle, it's more smart for me than Brendan's which is a little bit more in your face and obvious.
      However I also believe and support any manager to approach the game anyway he sees it and I don't think Brendan should ultimately change his tactics to counter others.
      We just have to get better at Brendan's.

      You know the odd thing though, up until the qpr game I think we had been conceding less chances in open play this year.. Set peices are a different matter but I think one of the main issues is the keeper and his starting point being so deep which pushes the defence right on him which leaves little room for error if you fail to win the header.

      In terms of set peices? Lads that's the ball, f**king win the first header


      Fair enough Jon and I agree with most of what you say.

      Especially agree with how our CBs would look better under a Rafa style approach. With regards time allowed for set-piece training, I do accept there's only so much time available and to be as well drilled as a Pulis Stoke we'd need to sacrifice somewhere else and perhaps Brendan is too stubborn rather than too proud in that matter.

      The problem I have with the scenario you paint at the moment is it isn't working at either end of the field. Our possession football only exists in defence, our counter-attacking play from the latter part of last season looks laboured and our creativity extremely basic. I would think, as most others did, that losing Luis meant we needed to focus on conceding less to compensate and the easiest part of the game to concentrate on is surely set-pieces. So whether stubborn or proud I do feel Brendan is making a mistake in allowing the problem to persist through not focusing enough on it.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #168: Oct 23, 2014 12:16:50 am
      Can we get our money back for unused goods sold on a false premise.

      I jest but funny how any half decent defenders who come to us turn to sh*te over night.
      Adryan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #169: Oct 23, 2014 03:22:32 am
      Fail to see why we spent 20 million on this guy.

      Since the first couple of games he's played where a pass gets thrown behind him and he struggled to keep up tells me he isn't good enough.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #170: Oct 23, 2014 06:20:11 am
      Is Sakho ready to come back? Lovren needs bench time.
      federer
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #171: Oct 23, 2014 11:00:02 am
      Did anyone see last night when Lovren tried to play Ronaldo offside when he was still in their half.......
      Gill95
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #172: Oct 23, 2014 11:22:04 am
      The pass that benzema gave to ronaldo? Was kind of surprised to see that.
      Adryan
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #173: Oct 23, 2014 01:54:47 pm
      Did anyone see last night when Lovren tried to play Ronaldo offside when he was still in their half.......

      Yeah .. it never was going to be an offside in a million years. Luckily Ronaldo messed it up when he cut back in against Johnson
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #174: Oct 24, 2014 06:04:33 pm
      wasted money, agger is better than lovren and we decided to throw 20 mil pounds for him, and sell agger for 4 ... absolute madness, incompetent management to say the least, and not only brendan is at fault, our directors should have the final say after they review brendan's antics in transfers
      srslfc
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #175: Oct 24, 2014 06:28:40 pm
      wasted money, agger is better than lovren and we decided to throw 20 mil pounds for him, and sell agger for 4 ... absolute madness, incompetent management to say the least, and not only brendan is at fault, our directors should have the final say after they review brendan's antics in transfers

      You'd really trust a board of directors to select players?
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #176: Oct 24, 2014 10:27:22 pm
      You'd really trust a board of directors to select players?

      not a board, sorry, i made a mistake, maybe hiring a director of football like zubizaretta at barca, or txiki, before he moved to man city . galliani at milan... if you don't have a manager of mourinho/wenger's leadership and quality, it is wise in my opinion, to have a 2nd man's opinion on certain transfer targets ... brendan never spent more than 10 mil on a player in his swansea days if i remember correctly, and also didnt promote or sign a bargain who proved quality, maybe i'm forgetting about someone, but i don't remember a marquee signing made by brendan since he is a manager
      HScRed1
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #177: Oct 24, 2014 10:31:59 pm
      not a board, sorry, i made a mistake, maybe hiring a director of football like zubizaretta at barca, or txiki, before he moved to man city . galliani at milan... if you don't have a manager of mourinho/wenger's leadership and quality, it is wise in my opinion, to have a 2nd man's opinion on certain transfer targets ... brendan never spent more than 10 mil on a player in his swansea days if i remember correctly, and also didnt promote or sign a bargain who proved quality, maybe i'm forgetting about someone, but i don't remember a marquee signing made by brendan since he is a manager

      Don't worry it isn't just Brendan's fault we are wasting our money on duff transfers we have a transfer committee.

      Red5man
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #178: Oct 24, 2014 10:37:13 pm
      Don't worry it isn't just Brendan's fault we are wasting our money on duff transfers we have a transfer committee.



      More concerned that the manager continues to call out Balotelli and Lovren has escaped any of the sort.

      Using an easy scapegoat, instead of worrying about the team as a whole.
      MIRO
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #179: Oct 26, 2014 07:23:19 pm
      Still gutted we didn't sign Schneiderlin.
      Was convinced we were going for him and Lallana.


      Would have been good Racer.
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #180: Oct 26, 2014 07:31:30 pm
      And Clyne ... miles better than Glen, i was convinced that we'll sign Jay Rodriguez even though he was injured
      waltonl4
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #181: Oct 26, 2014 07:34:14 pm
      we have developed a nack of buying good players and making them average .
      Something is wrong because it is happening all the time
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #182: Nov 01, 2014 03:46:02 pm
      An inferior player to Agger and always will be.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Dejan Lovren Player Thread
      Reply #183: Nov 01, 2014 05:40:21 pm
      He sums up everything wrong with our Summer Transfer, he was not needed because we had two players better than him in Sakho and Agger.
      A monumental F**k up by the management.

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