Can we keep hold of our breakthrough youngsters?

Something a work mate and I were discussing today. A very worthwhile debate it turned out to be!

It was decided during this conversation, that this includes all players who have either come through the academy, whether they have been bought in specifically for the academy or been in the LFC youth teams (Sterling, Flanagan, Ibe etc...) OR been bought in from other clubs as potential first team/depth players who may or have develop(ed) into magnificent talents (Hendo, Coutinho, Sturridge, adding the possibility of Manquillo, Markovic, Moreno, Can, Suso and Origi for example).

Given the position Liverpool are in currently, a resurgent force under BR's guidance, finally reclaiming a place in Europe's elite competition and in a position to challenge for the league - Yes, it was also pointed out that last season's 'success' was heavily aided by a certain Mr Suarez, but for the purposes of discussion, this was taken as a point on its own merit. Adding the quality and depth that we have thus far, what do you all believe are the chances we can hold onto players mentioned above?

Whilst holding a rational understanding that in football, money talks and every player has his price, a club like Liverpool should in theory be able to hold onto world class talent so as long as we are showing these youngsters the loyalty we always have to our young players. In BR's case, if you're good enough you're old enough. Just look at Man City for example, buying young players (Rodwell, Sinclair) and they effectively whittle away in the reserves or provide very ample bench warmers for the 'main attractions'. There doesn't seem to be as much faith in youth as we have shown.

Raheem Sterling is a prime example of a player coming through the ranks and taking everything in his stride, getting better and better with each passing season. We rewarded this with game time and also a new contract which reflected his contribution to the club as well as his development. Is it unreasonable to think that in return for showing such faith in a youngster and his abilities, that if a club were to approach the club to sign him, we could say no, have the player respect our decision and things progress as they were?

In the above scenario, I take the standpoint that there are of course two sides to this argument. The first being that, no, it is not unreasonable as we have given this lad his break in football, watched him flourish, rewarded his contribution and talents and stood by him as a youngster pushing his way into the first team at Liverpool. The club have shown loyalty and therefore, it would not be unreasonable to expect the same loyalty in return.

The second point is, of course, the fact that loyalty in football, is a dying trait. Players readily angle for moves away from clubs who have stood by them through thick and thin (yes, I am going to use Suarez in summer 2013 as an example here and no I do not believe his 'Oh but the media makes it impossible to stay...' malarkey) have offered them new, improved contracts and also players who seem to push for a move just 'coz.

Thirdly, as we seen in Suarez's situation, Liverpool isn't the be all and end all (As much as it bloody well should be!! ) for every player on the planet. Some players feel as much love for another club, as you or I do for Liverpool. So it would also be rational to accept that a player may come to Liverpool, with a heart that bleeds for Real Madrid, for example. If Real Madrid were then to place a bid for the player, my guess is that in that scenario, the player would have his heart set on the move.

So my question, friends, is exactly as I have mapped out ( I feel I have answered my own question within the question itself, but would be interested to hear everyone else's take) above. Given Liverpool's current situation and where we may go to from here, what chance do you believe we have of keeping hold of talents such as Sterling etc? I personally feel that this has a different twist to that of other scenarios (I read an article about Suarez ALWAYS having seen Liverpool as a stepping stone) as I believe youngsters breaking into the first team may have more of a loyalty to the club, or could have taken the club to heart - Jamie Carragher was once an Evertonian as we all know, and look at him now!

I believe (or maybe hope) that we can keep hold of our little gems!

Simple: we have to pay them what their contribution to the team deserves to earn, win trophies and by being competitive in every competition we play in.

If we fail to do that (we fall out to CL for example), then you'll find we'll struggle to keep them.

Simple: we have to pay them what their contribution to the team deserves to earn, win trophies and by being competitive in every competition we play in.

If we fail to do that (we fall out to CL for example), then you'll find we'll struggle to keep them.

That's essentially what the discussion whittled down to, mate. I hope we do continue to challenge for trophies because it would be a crying shame for players with talents such as Suarez's to leave every couple of seasons (anotheronebitesthedust syndrome) haha.

That's essentially what the discussion whittled down to, mate. I hope we do continue to challenge for trophies because it would be a crying shame for players with talents such as Suarez's to leave every couple of seasons (anotheronebitesthedust syndrome) haha.

Yeah it would be, hence why it's so important not to drop out of the CL (as that basically gives players an excuse to leave).

We can't be cheap on wages too, if Sterling, Coutinho or Sturridge have a blinding season, I'd give them a new contract being on the same wages as Gerrard.

I do have a feeling Coutinho will leave at some point, to Spain, as most Brazilian players always have the urge to play in La Liga at some point.

Selling star players isn't a bad thing though, sometimes you need to let one go once in a while, especially if he has a long term contract and we're in the CL, so we should get a good fee and buying a replacement isn't a problem. The problem happens when we start them all go at once, which I hope FSG won't allow happen.

Yeah it would be, hence why it's so important not to drop out of the CL (as that basically gives players an excuse to leave).

We can't be cheap on wages too, if Sterling, Coutinho or Sturridge have a blinding season, I'd give them a new contract being on the same wages as Gerrard.

I do have a feeling Coutinho will leave at some point, to Spain, as most Brazilian players always have the urge to play in La Liga at some point.

Selling star players isn't a bad thing though, sometimes you need to let one go once in a while, especially if he has a long term contract and we're in the CL, so we should get a good fee and buying a replacement isn't a problem. The problem happens when we start them all go at once, which I hope FSG won't allow happen.

Definitely. If they have a blinder of a season aiding to the success of the club more than others (which in itself brings the club more money) then they should be handed improved terms, as they have earned it.

I agree that it makes sense to sell once in a while, as other players fall out of favour, they age etc and need to be replaced or whatever. I think I just take the baby's point of view here that 'They're ours and you ain't F***ing having them!' haha

I'm not so sure Coutinho will be tempted to leave, he comes across much like Lucas, in the sense that he's settled and happy in England.

I'm not so sure Coutinho will be tempted to leave, he comes across much like Lucas, in the sense that he's settled and happy in England.

I sincerely hope he never becomes tempted to leave. He's such an intelligent footballer and is only going to get better.

I'm not so sure Coutinho will be tempted to leave, he comes across much like Lucas, in the sense that he's settled and happy in England.

I hope not because he's the one I'm most worried about the "big" clubs coming in for.

I hope the likes of Sterling, Coutinho, Ibe, Suso etc etc while developing at our great club develop a bond with the club like a certain Carragher or a certain Gerrard, even Hyppia to an extent had. One that will make them love the club and want to end their careers here or spend a F***ing long time here.

That can be done by a combination of things in my opinion, pay them what they deserve as (lfc_ynwa) mentioned, support them through thick and thin and arguably the most important, challenge and win trophies, make there heart feel the same as their brain does, so there is no 'love for playing for Liverpool' vs 'Success', we need to ensure that they're both the same thing.

Can we keep hold of our breakthrough youngsters?

Absolutely. BR has shown the utmost faith in these players and without him, they wouldn't be where they are at right now. Coutinho could still be sitting on the bench at Inter, with his career rotting away in front of him.

Only last Christmas people were calling for Raheem to go on loan to Swansea. BR decided to keep faith in the young lad and he went on to have the best period of his career, including a place in the World Cup team.

Ibe is another youngster who seems set to breakthrough. Do you think they'd have had the chance to breakthrough at any other major club? I don't think so. I think it's all down to Rodgers and the players will be aware of this. Right now, they are in no position to anchor a move elsewhere - they have an awful lot to prove still. When they do prove their worth, they should be nicely settled into the club winning major silverware. Hopefully it'll be them trying to hold onto us.

I hope the likes of Sterling, Coutinho, Ibe, Suso etc etc while developing at our great club develop a bond with the club like a certain Carragher or a certain Gerrard, even Hyppia to an extent had. One that will make them love the club and want to end their careers here or spend a F***ing long time here.

This was a point I made to my workmate. Youngsters are still impressionable, so it could be possible to brainwash convert them into a Carra, a Gerrard... obviously those guys had the 'Liverpool born and bred' factor, but still, it would be nice to hope some of our youngsters would follow suit!

This was a point I made to my workmate. Youngsters are still impressionable, so it could be possible to brainwash convert them into a Carra, a Gerrard... obviously those guys had the 'Liverpool born and bred' factor, but still, it would be nice to hope some of our youngsters would follow suit!

Where you are born for me doesn't make you loyal, look at Rooney. c**t or not same applies to him. They need to be seduced into loving the club and once they love it we need to keep them loving it until they make others love it as much as them e.g Gerrard (spoke to nando, Suarez) attempted to keep both of them because of the love he had for the club and the love they should of had.

With success these players will love the club easier imo first the support, then the wages and then the success to keep them here, that's how i see it anyway.  (Wages can be less if the success is high or vice versa)

Can we keep hold of our breakthrough youngsters?

Absolutely. BR has shown the utmost faith in these players and without him, they wouldn't be where they are at right now. Coutinho could still be sitting on the bench at Inter, with his career rotting away in front of him.

Only last Christmas people were calling for Raheem to go on loan to Swansea. BR decided to keep faith in the young lad and he went on to have the best period of his career, including a place in the World Cup team.

Ibe is another youngster who seems set to breakthrough. Do you think they'd have had the chance to breakthrough at any other major club? I don't think so. I think it's all down to Rodgers and the players will be aware of this. Right now, they are in no position to anchor a move elsewhere - they have an awful lot to prove still. When they do prove their worth, they should be nicely settled into the club winning major silverware. Hopefully it'll be them trying to hold onto us.

In a perfect Liverpool world, mate, yes. This would be the ideal scenario.

But this is football, modern day football where loyalty is a forgotten trait amongst players.

This is exactly why I thought it would make a great talking point though. So thank you for your 'to-the-point' honesty in your comment

Where you are born for me doesn't make you loyal, look at Rooney. c**t or not same applies to him. They need to be seduced into loving the club and once they love it we need to keep them loving it until they make others love it as much as them e.g Gerrard (spoke to nando, Suarez) attempted to keep both of them because of the love he had for the club and the love they should of had.

With success these players will love the club easier imo first the support, then the wages and then the success to keep them here, that's how i see it anyway.  (Wages can be less if the success is high or vice versa)

You make a good point there, mate. However I do believe it all boils down to each individual. Some would be easily seduced, some not so easily and some not at all. Youngsters can be a funny bunch. I made the point that they are impressionable, but at the same time they are unpredictable, often changing their points of view and being stubborn little buggers.

Money often talks, and if we were paying Sterling say for example £80,000 p/w, and someone came in with an offer, which we accepted and they offered him £120,000 p/w, I think loyalty would soon play 2nd fiddle to their own personal gains.

But again, you make the good point to combat this, we can offer them great wages, try our utmost to have them fall head over heels in love with the club and do everything in our power (such as refusing to listen to any offers for them, make them see that we want to keep them!) to prove that we want them here for a very long time.

You make a good point there, mate. However I do believe it all boils down to each individual. Some would be easily seduced, some not so easily and some not at all. Youngsters can be a funny bunch. I made the point that they are impressionable, but at the same time they are unpredictable, often changing their points of view and being stubborn little buggers.

Money often talks, and if we were paying Sterling say for example £80,000 p/w, and someone came in with an offer, which we accepted and they offered him £120,000 p/w, I think loyalty would soon play 2nd fiddle to their own personal gains.

But again, you make the good point to combat this, we can offer them great wages, try our utmost to have them fall head over heels in love with the club and do everything in our power (such as refusing to listen to any offers for them, make them see that we want to keep them!) to prove that we want them here for a very long time.

In the scenario you throw, if the club offering Sterling more was being battered by us in the league and other competitions i feel he would still stay, like you said it boils down to the individual. But imo 9/10 players want to be playing for the top dogs, if we can become that again, loyalty in faith of the club to continue succeeding would outweigh the financial benefits imo.

In the scenario you throw, if the club offering Sterling more was being battered by us in the league and other competitions i feel he would still stay, like you said it boils down to the individual. But imo 9/10 players want to be playing for the top dogs, if we can become that again, loyalty in faith of the club to continue succeeding would outweigh the financial benefits imo.

Definitely, mate. I hope the club show that faith and continue to add quality in each window to push us closer and closer to silverware. If the silverware comes to Anfield, the youngsters won't want to leave.

I can't imagine a better feeling than being 18, 19, 20... and playing regularly for a club who are raking in the honours!

Definitely, mate. I hope the club show that faith and continue to add quality in each window to push us closer and closer to silverware. If the silverware comes to Anfield, the youngsters won't want to leave.

I can't imagine a better feeling than being 18, 19, 20... and playing regularly for a club who are raking in the honours!

All this talk about it is exciting me .

Hope we can make it happen with youngsters we have now, because with them we could be winning silverware for many years to come.

All this talk about it is exciting me .

Hope we can make it happen with youngsters we have now, because with them we could be winning silverware for many years to come.

Didn't a 'wise' man once say, "You can't win anything with kids..." haha! Maybe Alan, maybe... but these are OUR F***ing kids, and our kids are F***ing awesome!!

Didn't a 'wise' man once say, "You can't win anything with kids..." haha! Maybe Alan, maybe... but these are OUR f**king kids, and our kids are f**king awesome!!

But they might be kids by age but by the time Sterling is 21, he'd have a sh*t load of experience, he is going to be immense, they're attitudes don't resemble kids nor do there ability. In our kids i trust

But they might be kids by age but by the time Sterling is 21, he'd have a sh*t load of experience, he is going to be immense, they're attitudes don't resemble kids nor do there ability. In our kids i trust

You and I both, mate!

Anyway, I start at 7 tomorrow so best be off to sleep! Ciao!

In a perfect Liverpool world, mate, yes. This would be the ideal scenario.

But this is football, modern day football where loyalty is a forgotten trait amongst players.

This is exactly why I thought it would make a great talking point though. So thank you for your 'to-the-point' honesty in your comment

I get the point you made in the OP but I genuinely don't think there is an answer to all this. Each individual is unique. Each individual is motivated by one thing or another. It's a good debate you've put up, but there is no definitive answer to it.

I was trying to be very optimistic in my initial post. Reality is, money talks but so does a decent legacy. Put the two together and you get RM and Barcelona. Even some of the most loyal players find that hard to resist.

It's hard to know what the players are thinking off the pitch. Okay, just imagine that at the age of 18 you signed for Arsenal (I say arsenal because you do not support them). They have slowly nurtured you into the team and now you are playing to a standard you never thought possible. You are now 23 and you've won a couple of major trophies and a few personal awards, such as POTY. Your agent comes up to you and asks you how you'd feel being recognised globally as a superstar. He then asks you what else do you have to prove at Arsenal. He then asks you how would you fancy doubling your wages and playing for Real Madrid alongside the best players in the world. He then tells you that this is your only opportunity to sign for them.

I know for a fact that if I was this Arsenal player, I'd instantly ask where to sign. I don't support Arsenal, in the same way that Ibe, Coutinho and Sterling do not support Liverpool.

I do not agree that there is less loyalty now than there was years ago. Even in the 70's and 80's you had top players from overseas playing for the best teams in Spain and Italy. There is just more money in the sport now - that is the major difference. Loyalty in football implies turning down lucrative offers for the love of your club. If teams were dirty rich back in the day, players would then have seemed less loyal.

Firstly I said we can absolutely hold on to our best players. In reality, I don't know. I'd like to think so, but if Real Madrid come calling everything changes.

if they're good enough, and british, I believe we have a great chance of keeping them for as long as BR wants. if they're internationals, it's harder to say, but if we've raised them it probably helps.

I get the point you made in the OP but I genuinely don't think there is an answer to all this. Each individual is unique. Each individual is motivated by one thing or another. It's a good debate you've put up, but there is no definitive answer to it.

I was trying to be very optimistic in my initial post. Reality is, money talks but so does a decent legacy. Put the two together and you get RM and Barcelona. Even some of the most loyal players find that hard to resist.

It's hard to know what the players are thinking off the pitch. Okay, just imagine that at the age of 18 you signed for Arsenal (I say arsenal because you do not support them). They have slowly nurtured you into the team and now you are playing to a standard you never thought possible. You are now 23 and you've won a couple of major trophies and a few personal awards, such as POTY. Your agent comes up to you and asks you how you'd feel being recognised globally as a superstar. He then asks you what else do you have to prove at Arsenal. He then asks you how would you fancy doubling your wages and playing for Real Madrid alongside the best players in the world. He then tells you that this is your only opportunity to sign for them.

I know for a fact that if I was this Arsenal player, I'd instantly ask where to sign. I don't support Arsenal, in the same way that Ibe, Coutinho and Sterling do not support Liverpool.

I do not agree that there is less loyalty now than there was years ago. Even in the 70's and 80's you had top players from overseas playing for the best teams in Spain and Italy. There is just more money in the sport now - that is the major difference. Loyalty in football implies turning down lucrative offers for the love of your club. If teams were dirty rich back in the day, players would then have seemed less loyal.

Firstly I said we can absolutely hold on to our best players. In reality, I don't know. I'd like to think so, but if Real Madrid come calling everything changes.

if they're good enough, and british, I believe we have a great chance of keeping them for as long as BR wants. if they're internationals, it's harder to say, but if we've raised them it probably helps.

CouRed - Yes, mate, each individual is unique and I think DBV makes a good point here about British players. It could definitely be argues that we have more chance of keeping hold of our British youngsters as opposed to the international youngsters. As lfc_ynwa pointed out:

Most Brazilian players always have the urge to play in La Liga at some point.

I'd go as far as to say this applies to most South American players. If I had the time (I'm at work atm) I would look further into the point about loyalty in past years. High profile players and the amount of time they've spent at their local clubs etc.

It's much easier to hold on to our English youngsters, the pull of Madrid and Barca doesn't quite have the same effect as it does on other players for them. If we go backwards though like we did after we last came second in the league then it wouldn't surprise me if City or Chelsea go hard for our homegrown players when you consider how few English players both teams have.

We've got to pay top dollar and be successful to keep these top young players.

As much as we want them to show loyalty they all, rightly, know it doesn't really exist in football and that if next week the club want you gone you're gone. That's why imo we've got to give them real tangible reasons for staying at LFC not just emotion.

It's much easier to hold on to our English youngsters, the pull of Madrid and Barca doesn't quite have the same effect as it does on other players for them. If we go backwards though like we did after we last came second in the league then it wouldn't surprise me if City or Chelsea go hard for our homegrown players when you consider how few English players both teams have.

That would be the ultimate kick in the balls, seeing talents such as Sterling being courted by City or Chelsea - like knowing someone you hated was someone chasing your gf/wife.

We've got to pay top dollar and be successful to keep these top young players.

As much as we want them to show loyalty they all, rightly, know it doesn't really exist in football and that if next week the club want you gone you're gone. That's why imo we've got to give them real tangible reasons for staying at LFC not just emotion.

Unless there is a drastic change in circumstances I don't imagine LFC will ever want to get rid of players like Sterling and Coutinho. No club wants to see their best talents leave.

But yeah, we need to continue to show ambition and hopefully win some silverware and that will only have positive effects on the youth.

I actually think we will be able to keep hold of our most important young stars (Coutinho, Sterling, Studge, and also the likes of Ibe, Can, and Markovic).  The reason being that BR has a great reputation for working with the young lads and allowing them the opportunity to fulfill their potential.  Just look at Studge and Coutinho.  Neither one could get a look in for their previous clubs, but BR gave them a chance and they have taken it.  I think that they will remember that when things weren't going well for them, LFC and BR were the ones who helped them get back on track. 

Also, the owners have done a magnificent job of giving improved contracts to our most important players and tying them to long term deals.

Finally, I think the players themselves are buying into the system that BR has in place.  We play an attractive brand of football, and with so many talented young players we look like we are on the brink of having an elite team for many years to come. 

It's much easier to hold on to our English youngsters, the pull of Madrid and Barca doesn't quite have the same effect as it does on other players for them. If we go backwards though like we did after we last came second in the league then it wouldn't surprise me if City or Chelsea go hard for our homegrown players when you consider how few English players both teams have.

That's not entirely true mate.

If you are good enough (which the vast majority of Brits just aren't), then the likes of RM and Barca will come calling. I do not think British players have any more loyalty than say your Spanish or Italian players.

Gareth Bale
Steve Mac
Micky Owen
David Beckham

If you are good enough, then the top European teams will come calling. Maybe they just express little interest in British players as they know how awfully overrated most of them have been.

I actually think we will be able to keep hold of our most important young stars (Coutinho, Sterling, Studge, and also the likes of Ibe, Can, and Markovic).  The reason being that BR has a great reputation for working with the young lads and allowing them the opportunity to fulfill their potential.  Just look at Studge and Coutinho.  Neither one could get a look in for their previous clubs, but BR gave them a chance and they have taken it.  I think that they will remember that when things weren't going well for them, LFC and BR were the ones who helped them get back on track. 

Also, the owners have done a magnificent job of giving improved contracts to our most important players and tying them to long term deals.

Finally, I think the players themselves are buying into the system that BR has in place.  We play an attractive brand of football, and with so many talented young players we look like we are on the brink of having an elite team for many years to come. 

Stand out point in that post, mate. This is something which excites me because these players, should we manage to keep hold of them, will be playing their peak years all at the one time (or at least almost). Imagine players like Sterling, Coutinho, Can etc getting even BETTER, playing alongside one another... it just makes me hard so fecking excited!!

That's not entirely true mate.

If you are good enough (which the vast majority of Brits just aren't), then the likes of RM and Barca will come calling. I do not think British players have any more loyalty than say your Spanish or Italian players.

Gareth Bale
Steve Mac
Micky Owen
David Beckham

If you are good enough, then the top European teams will come calling. Maybe they just express little interest in British players as they know how awfully overrated most of them have been.

I know where you're coming from, mate. But in the case of Bale, Spurs were never going to turn down the money they were offered for him, not in a million years, regardless of how much they wanted him to stay.

Owen is a good example. Seemed to make his mind up sharpish that he wanted to leave, Benitez didn't (as far as I am lead to believe) seem to mind as he had his own targets in mind anyway so... Owen was courted by Real Madrid and wasn't going to say no.

Felt this was relevant here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-offer-raheem-sterling-four-4051048

I think it's a pretty safe bet that within two to three years Sterling will be the highest paid player at the club.

And within 5 years he might be the highest paid player in club history.