Victor Valdes (Free Agent)

Look.  This is not about Pepe and it's definitely not about Rafa.  It's true that some of us wanted Rafa back in 2012 and I still think he deserved another shot under better owners, but that is water under the bridge and Rodgers has really come into his own.  So just leave Rafa out of this.

As for Pepe, you can't deny that he was kicked to the curb in a really awful way, sent on loan to Napoli without anyone even having the bollocks to tell him beforehand etc.  That was very low and he deserved better than that.  We're a much better club than that.

But the fact remains that he was also in decline and hadn't played well at all the season before he went to Napoli.  Worst of all he just didn't look arsed, he wouldn't even go to ground on shots that at least were worth a try to dive for.  That was the worst part.

I don't think Mignolet is good enough for our club, or at the very least he hasn't shown yet that he is.  However, I don't think that keeping Pepe was the answer either.  We need a TOP keeper, a world class keeper like Courtois, like Cech, like Hart etc.  And neither Pepe in his current form nor Mignolet fit the bill.  The only reason I brought Pepe up in this summer was because there was no way on earth you could claim that Mignolet is somehow miles better than Pepe.  He's just not.  Again: in my opinion neither of them is good enough for us right now.  But if we're going to keep Mignolet, then why not keep Pepe as well?  you can't tell me one of them is "clearly" better than the other.

But we all know the answer as to why Pepe was sold---not because he's worse than Mignolet but because he was on almost triple the wages Mignolet is on. 

But again, whatever Mignolet does, is not about Pepe.  Was it Pepe's fault Mignolet let in that Negredo goal at City?  was it Pepe's fault Mignolet made that mistake on the cross when we drew to Villa at Anfield last season?  was it Pepe's fault Mignolet was in no man's land for the Aguero goal?  of course not.  That was Simon Mignolet's fault.  Honestly---you think that Mignolet has been so perfect that any criticism of him is because people are secretly angry at how Pepe left??  really?  that would only make sense if Mignolet had been without blemish, had never made any mistakes, had never been so wimpish on corners and crosses, had pinpoint accuracy on his distribution etc.  But the reality is in all of those areas he is sorely lacking and any criticism is more than justified.

So.  Would I have liked to have seen Pepe stay?  definitely.  But I would much rather see a top keeper who can come in and be better than BOTH of them. 

only time will tell if Valdes is that player.

In case I get reminded of where to post or how to swear, we should take this particular discussion to the appropriate thread.

As for Pepe, you can't deny that he was kicked to the curb in a really awful way

To every action (and in some cases a lack of) there is a reaction.

Victor Valdes for president of LFC!
Random sweaty men by a computer being well-better than our manager!
This is the fedolution!
The only solution!
Diame Diame Diame!

Down with the migs!
Down with the Lucas!

Join the Fedolution!

There aren't many keepers who wouldn't provide better competition than Brad Jones.

Migs has a lot to improve in his game and having Victor Valdes around it is more likely to happen rather than having Jones breathing, well actually not breathing down his neck.

I'd like to see some feedback on how good a goalkeeping coach John Acterberg is as well. He has been first team goalkeeping coach since 2011 now and to be honest the standard of keeping hasn't been top notch in that time. Coincidence? Probably, but a goalkeeper like Mig is one who should benefit from a top class goalkeeping coach so I suppose we'll find out this season how good Achterberg is or how well rounded Mig actually is.

I'd say one will be found out if we aren't talking about the solid season Mignolet has had come next Summer.

I'd like to see some feedback on how good a goalkeeping coach John Acterberg is as well. He has been first team goalkeeping coach since 2011 now and to be honest the standard of keeping hasn't been top notch in that time. Coincidence?

Fair point.

There aren't many keepers who wouldn't provide better competition than Brad Jones.

Migs has a lot to improve in his game and having Victor Valdes around it is more likely to happen rather than having Jones breathing, well actually not breathing down his neck.

I'd like to see some feedback on how good a goalkeeping coach John Acterberg is as well. He has been first team goalkeeping coach since 2011 now and to be honest the standard of keeping hasn't been top notch in that time. Coincidence? Probably, but a goalkeeper like Mig is one who should benefit from a top class goalkeeping coach so I suppose we'll find out this season how good Achterberg is or how well rounded Mig actually is.

I'd say one will be found out if we aren't talking about the solid season Mignolet has had come next Summer.

That's a very good point. I didn't actually know Achterberg had become head gk coach in 2011 and as you say the form in goal has hardly been great since then.

Look.  This is not about Pepe and it's definitely not about Rafa.  It's true that some of us wanted Rafa back in 2012 and I still think he deserved another shot under better owners, but that is water under the bridge and Rodgers has really come into his own.  So just leave Rafa out of this.

As for Pepe, you can't deny that he was kicked to the curb in a really awful way, sent on loan to Napoli without anyone even having the bollocks to tell him beforehand etc.  That was very low and he deserved better than that.  We're a much better club than that.

But the fact remains that he was also in decline and hadn't played well at all the season before he went to Napoli.  Worst of all he just didn't look arsed, he wouldn't even go to ground on shots that at least were worth a try to dive for.  That was the worst part.

I don't think Mignolet is good enough for our club, or at the very least he hasn't shown yet that he is.  However, I don't think that keeping Pepe was the answer either.  We need a TOP keeper, a world class keeper like Courtois, like Cech, like Hart etc.  And neither Pepe in his current form nor Mignolet fit the bill.  The only reason I brought Pepe up in this summer was because there was no way on earth you could claim that Mignolet is somehow miles better than Pepe.  He's just not.  Again: in my opinion neither of them is good enough for us right now.  But if we're going to keep Mignolet, then why not keep Pepe as well?  you can't tell me one of them is "clearly" better than the other.

But we all know the answer as to why Pepe was sold---not because he's worse than Mignolet but because he was on almost triple the wages Mignolet is on. 

But again, whatever Mignolet does, is not about Pepe.  Was it Pepe's fault Mignolet let in that Negredo goal at City?  was it Pepe's fault Mignolet made that mistake on the cross when we drew to Villa at Anfield last season?  was it Pepe's fault Mignolet was in no man's land for the Aguero goal?  of course not.  That was Simon Mignolet's fault.  Honestly---you think that Mignolet has been so perfect that any criticism of him is because people are secretly angry at how Pepe left??  really?  that would only make sense if Mignolet had been without blemish, had never made any mistakes, had never been so wimpish on corners and crosses, had pinpoint accuracy on his distribution etc.  But the reality is in all of those areas he is sorely lacking and any criticism is more than justified.

So.  Would I have liked to have seen Pepe stay?  definitely.  But I would much rather see a top keeper who can come in and be better than BOTH of them. 

only time will tell if Valdes is that player.

So you claim Joe Hart is a "world class keeper" and then proceed to list every mistake Mignolet made last season.

Care for me to list every mistake Joe "world class" Hart made last season in the games leading up to him getting dropped for Pantilimon?

It will be interesting to see if Mignolet steps up his game now that he knows there might soon be some real competition for his place. Might be difficult for him as I'm sure he's already doing his best.

Brendan said in his presser "first I've heard of it" when asked about Valdez. I guess that confirms he's definitely coming then  .

Welcome to the club, Victor

I'm guessing he doesn't watch Sky Sports News or read any newspapers then because it was in them a couple of weeks ago

Mignolet is young. Most keepers come into their prime very late 20s and keep it until 35 ish. He will become more commanding in the area and l think he's already done better this season with his distrebution. He is one of if not the best shot stopper in the league and I'd rather have that and save 2 points when he pulls off reflex saves in the dying minutes like he did against Soton. He'll save us more points than he costs us. Valdez will come in and teach mignolet what he needs to learn because Valdez has the experience. Valdez will play about 40% of the games and really push Migs to improve!

He is one of if not the best shot stopper in the league

No he's not but he is better than Jones and if Valdes signs he'll only need to be better than him to keep his place. 

No he's not but he is better than Jones and if Valdes signs he'll only need to be better than him to keep his place. 

Who's a better shot stopper in the PL then?

Who's a better shot stopper in the PL then?

Just to be clear, before I answer that Mono: by "better" do you mean looked "better" than Simon, when making saves, or actually is "better" because they saved a higher percentage of shots faced? 

Edit: I'll assume it's 'saves to shots faced' you're after mate. From Premierleague.com for season 2013/14...

*N.B. To treat this in a fair and equitable way - I compared Simon with only those 'keepers who faced over 100 shots [tbh only a F**k-wit would try to compare someone who didn't play much with someone who did because as anyone with an IQ higher than a spoon knows: that would distort any findings] Anyhow...

Simon - faced 158 shots, saved 108 = 68.35%

Of the other 'top four' teams...

Hart - faced 101 shots, saved 71 = 70.3%
Szczesny - faced 154 shots, saved 113 = 73.38%
Cech - faced 106 shots, saved 82 = 77.36%

Of the 'others'...

Howard - faced 152 shots, saved 114 = 75%
De Gea - faced 142, saved 99 = 69.72%
Adrián - faced 114, saved 87 = 76.32%
Begovic - faced 140, saved 104 = 74.29%
Mannone - faced 169, saved 131 = 77.51%
Speroni - faced 164, saved 118 = 71.95%

Make of that what you will I hope it helps.

However, if it's just a question of how good he looks, when making those stops; I'll agree he does look good but then again: I honestly don't know how good the other 'keepers looked when they made their 'stops'.

To be fair to Simon; the season before we signed him (and probably why we signed him; given how stats driven FSG are) - his 'saves to shots faced ratio' was pretty impressive... faced 209, saved 155 = 74.16%. With a bit of luck he'll be able to replicate (and better) that this season.

Adnan Januzaj in 2013/14 had a higher success rate of dribbles compared to Luis Suarez.

By definition of the stat reliant folk,  this means Januzaj is a "better" dribbler of the ball than Suarez. 

People who use stats to form conclusive opinions about players obviously do not trust themselves, or indeed understand association football well enough to form their own conclusions.

Just to be clear, before I answer that Mono: by "better" do you mean looked "better" than Simon, when making saves, or actually is "better" because they saved a higher percentage of shots faced? 

Edit: I'll assume it's 'saves to shots faced' you're after mate. From Premierleague.com for season 2013/14...

Simon - faced 158 shots, saved 108 = 68.35%

Of the other 'top four' teams...

Hart - faced 101 shots, saved 71 = 70.3%
Szczesny - faced 154 shots, saved 113 = 73.38%
Cech - faced 106 shots, saved 82 = 77.36%

Of the 'others'...

Howard - faced 152 shots, saved 114 = 75%
De Gea - faced 142, saved 99 = 69.72%
Adrián - faced 114, saved 87 = 76.32%
Begovic - faced 140, saved 104 = 74.29%
Mannone - faced 169, saved 131 = 77.51%
Speroni - faced 164, saved 118 = 71.95%

I hope this helps.

This doesn't conclusively tell us which one is a better stopper though. Maybe Cech faced a higher proportion of long shots (which are generally easier to save) because of the way in which Chelscum defend, for example. On the other hand, Migs would have been faced with more 1v1s due to how we throw loads of players forward.

This doesn't conclusively tell us which one is a better stopper though.

Aye, your probably right mate - Simon most likely faced a better calibre of shot than everyone else. He was probably just very unlucky that way. 

Maybe Cech faced a higher proportion of long shots (which are generally easier to save)

Aye long shots are generally easier to save and "maybe" Simon faced more. 

All Simon Mignolet saves | 2013-2014


Although, to be fair to Simon; I wouldn't say that the 5 dozen, or so, long shots he saved last season were "easy". 
 

Aye, your probably right mate - Simon most likely faced a better calibre of shot than everyone else. He was probably just very unlucky that way. 
Aye long shots are generally easier to save and "maybe" Simon faced more. 

All Simon Mignolet saves | 2013-2014

I see no point in discussing this if you're just going to misrepresent what I say in my posts.

I see no point in discussing this if you're just going to misrepresent what I say in my posts.

I misrepresented nothing fella. I merely agreed with you. The stats do not show what calibre of shot each keeper faced - that was the thrust of your 'argument'; wasn't it?

If you want to or need to believe that Simon, throughout the season, may have faced a different selection of shots than Cech or even Mannone or Speroni then fair enough. "Maybe" he did but... "maybe" he didn't. Hell going by your logic; it actually could be that Simon faced an even lower calibre of shot than say Cech or even Begovic.

I guess we will never know and that's why your 'defence' (if that's what it was) can't be taken too seriously but what we do know is; that of all the shots he did face, he saved 68.35% of them.

Although - my guess is that if the facts showed he saved 78.35% of all shots faced then... the stats wouldn't have been questioned. 

I misrepresented nothing fella. I merely agreed with you. The stats do not show what calibre of shot each keeper faced - that was the thrust of your 'argument'; wasn't it?

If you want to or need to believe that Simon, throughout the season, may have faced a different selection of shots than Cech or even Mannone or Speroni then fair enough. "Maybe" he did but... "maybe" he didn't. Hell going by your logic; it actually could be that Simon faced an even lower calibre of shot than say Cech or even Begovic.

I guess we will never know and that's why you 'defence' (if that's what it was) can't be taken too seriously but we do know that of all the shots he did face, he saved 68.35% of them.

Although - my guess is that if the facts showed he saved 78.35% of all shots faced then... the stats wouldn't have been questioned. 

Ah my bad then... must have misunderstood your post.

I wasn't saying that Migs was or wasn't a better stopper than those keepers last season. I'm just not sure that without taking into account the proportion of routine stops to 'world-class' stops that each keeper had to make over the course of season it's possible to say which one was more effective. As you say, it could have been the case that Migs actually faced fewer 'difficult' shots. The only way to find out would be to look through all the shots he faced and then somehow put them into different categories of difficulty, which tbh I do not have the patience or time to do at all.

I hope we sign Victor Valdes, Victor Chandler or even Victor Victoria.....if it gives us credible depth at goalkeeper.

Squad wise it's now our weakest position by a long way.

Migs needs pressure to improve or develop and we currently have no credible alternative.

It's YES for me (sorry force of habit up here at present) as I think he makes us better.

Get valdes in least he comes for the ball,mignonet I'd slowly being found out good shot stopper that's about it

Getting the only weak spot in the now mythical Barcelona of 5 years ago sounds like another facepalm to me.There are loads of good keepers in the PL and even in the Championship that we could get before recruiting a keeper that is definately past his never-so-great prime.I said it for years we should have gotten Al-Habsi or Wayne Hennessey.Either of them would be excellent as 2nd choice and could even challenge Simon.Anyhow,England is littered with quality stoppers,we should look there before settling for Valdez just because he´s free.I´m no Barcelona fan but I can easily recall various notorious blunders of his that embarrased the rest of the truly solid team.Never good enough for them,sure as hell not good enough for us now,even if he is better than Jones (duh).