Brian Clough

It's been tenyears since Clough died, so I thought he deserved this thread. If ever there was a man who would have been great as a Liverpool manager, you feel that Clough was the one manager you could quite confidently have during the glory years of Liverpool. I don't think any man in football has ever quite provoked so much interest and debate - even with those who aren't interested in the game. A manager who has the great achievements with what were previously considered provincial clubs, has countless biographies written on him, has a novel and a film about his time at Leeds, and of course his famous wit.

Here's a great article from Daniel Taylor in The Guardian about the man - look out for the time he pushed Steve Bruce into a urinal at a function!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/sep/06/brian-clough-10th-anniversary-death

Thrown in for good measure, the classic Clough and Revie interview after Clough had been sacked from Leeds. Great TV, and shows up how dull, stage managed and corporate football has become these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws4S3mPSJ3Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws4S3mPSJ3Q

He was the Maureen of his time.

Arrogant outspoken attention seeker!  Good manager though, but will always be a pr**k in my eyes.

Agree with Red Puppy...he was a real bully, he used to show players up all the time.

One good thing I will say about him is he got me a ticket for the 1986 FA Cup first Merseyside Cup Final   

Excellent manager although I do wonder how much of his success was down to his partnership with Peter Taylor. Nonetheless the both of them made it work. Made for a remarkable study in management as The Damned United proved.

Not without his faults of course, but you can't deny what a character he was. He lived in a time when managers would stand up for the people of the community where he worked - he was committed to miners cause, and also tried to do anything to stop redundancies at Rolls Royce in Nottingham. Like Bill Shankly, he was a man of the people.

These days, managers don't have a bond with fans, and certainly don't talk up the community they work in. Clough should be praised for the fact he spoke up for everyone involved in the running of a football club, most noticeably the fans. To compare him to the incredibly self centred Mourinho is an indictment on Clough's behalf.

What he achieved with Forest was remarkable almost ridiculous and highly unlikely to be repeated in the modern game

Does the OP realise Mr Clough was less than generous in his appraisal of fans behaviour at Hilsbourgh, a position he took many many years to reconsider?

“I will always remain convinced that those Liverpool fans who died were killed by Liverpool people.” Brian Clough, 1994

He seemed uber arrogant.

Always a pest to the media and I know it's good to give them some but he thought he was above everyone by watching some of his videos.

Sure he was a brilliant manager though.

Does the OP realise Mr Clough was less than generous in his appraisal of fans behaviour at Hilsbourgh, a position he took many many years to reconsider?

“I will always remain convinced that those Liverpool fans who died were killed by Liverpool people.” Brian Clough, 1994

Well, that's shocking, I honestly didn't know about this exact quote, and talk about being a right c**t. I knew he had misgivings about something he had said, but do believe his apology was sincere, as he stated a few years later.

“I now accept the investigations have made me realise I was misinformed. I wasn't trying to be vindictive or unsympathetic, but my opinion has altered over the years. It was never my intention to hurt anyone.”

A massive slice of humble pie I believe, and the apology was sincere, unlike those who were forced to apologise like Kelvin Mackenzie who obviously weren't sincere. Apologies to anyone if they think I was trivialising this matter by making this thread.

His achievements as Forest manager were outstanding, from 2nd division to successive European cups in under 4 seasons is unmatched and under the Premiership/Champions League era won't be repeated forest are the ONLY team to have won more European cups than League titles.                   
I agree with the opening  poster he would have made a great LFC manager BUT his and our club were rivals back then and I don't think we would have considered an 'outsider' back then !

Well, that's shocking, I honestly didn't know about this exact quote, and talk about being a right c**t. I knew he had misgivings about something he had said, but do believe his apology was sincere, as he stated a few years later.

“I now accept the investigations have made me realise I was misinformed. I wasn't trying to be vindictive or unsympathetic, but my opinion has altered over the years. It was never my intention to hurt anyone.”

A massive slice of humble pie I believe, and the apology was sincere, unlike those who were forced to apologise like Kelvin Mackenzie who obviously weren't sincere. Apologies to anyone if they think I was trivialising this matter by making this thread.

Don't stress over it. You never started the thread to defend his statement.
I do remember some stupid disrepectful thing attached to him regarding Hillsborough but it's faded in the memory a bit, he couldn't keep his trap shut ey. That was his problem sometimes.
I'm not going to paint him as scum because he had a stupid opinion.
He was some type of genius that's for sure, never "liked" him but he was a colourful character who made miracles happen in football, his staff probably went un noticed they may have been more instrumental than we think.

Yup at least he apologised and you could tell he meant it like souness did when he apologised for his s#n article .
Unlike that F***ing slimy piece of sh*t Mckenzie who apologised through gritted teeth and never meant it the c**t.

He was the Maureen of his time.

but will always be a pr**k in my eyes.

Agreed lads... back in the day I F***ing detested the man every bit as much as I do Mourinho now. Total ball-bag.

I'm not one to speak of the dead but it's a shame he didn't afford the 96 victims of the Hillsborough disaster the same decency or take into consideration, for one second, the feelings of the families of the 96 when he decided to live up to his reputation as this controversial genius.

Wrote it in his book and reiterated it in a TV interview.

Yes he apologised twelve years later, again in public, but he wouldn't have had to if he hadn't decided to go public with his uneducated sh*te in the first place. He apologised when it suited him - when sales of his book no longer mattered.

You've got to remember that this man was there on the day. For him to come out with the comments that he did, in the name of selling a book is unforgivable in my opinion.

He knew what he was doing when he went public with the original comments and then again when he apologised.

Didn't fool me.

A great manager but a f**king weirdo, punched his players, punched his fans, his son was a ladyboy and he gave a f**k about the 96 as much as I gave a f**k when he croaked it and if I had one moment of fame in my life I'd write my own book and stick this post in as my Prologue.

F**k Brian Clough.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not one to speak of the dead  but when writing this I kept thinking of this.

Apt:

http://youtu.be/p4qN9pduox0

Did anyone see the TV film about Clough?
Certainly gave me food for thought.
As a football manager he was a genius, his achievements have never been equalled, as a man he did have darker qualities.
He had an unshakeable belief in his own opinion which in football matters was unerringly correct, as such Clough would never go back on a decision or alter a belief.
In his private life such conduct didn't apply, the same way it wouldn't apply to anybody who chose to bulldoze his way through life.
It was almost psychotic and led him to shooting himself in the foot a number of times, his blazing rows with players on some occasions led him to transfer some of his star men, he never went back on a decision.
His alcoholism didn't help matters.
The shocking remarks about Hillsborough are unique in the fact that he totally recanted the words and apologised profusely stating that he had like millions of others been lied to.
His character led him to repeat what he had been told to anyone who would listen.

I did have the same thought about Brian Clough ie he was a pr**k with ears, until I saw the film which was called The Damned United with Michael Sheen playing Clough astonishingly well. 

Did anyone see the TV film about Clough?
Certainly gave me food for thought.
As a football manager he was a genius, his achievements have never been equalled, as a man he did have darker qualities.
He had an unshakeable belief in his own opinion which in football matters was unerringly correct, as such Clough would never go back on a decision or alter a belief.
In his private life such conduct didn't apply, the same way it wouldn't apply to anybody who chose to bulldoze his way through life.
It was almost psychotic and led him to shooting himself in the foot a number of times, his blazing rows with players on some occasions led him to transfer some of his star men, he never went back on a decision.
His alcoholism didn't help matters.
The shocking remarks about Hillsborough are unique in the fact that he totally recanted the words and apologised profusely stating that he had like millions of others been lied to.
His character led him to repeat what he had been told to anyone who would listen.

I did have the same thought about Brian Clough ie he was a pr**k with ears, until I saw the film which was called The Damned United with Michael Sheen playing Clough astonishingly well. 

He definitely lived with regrets, his Hillsborough statement just one of many, but his treatment of Peter Taylor after he went behind his back and took the Derby job broke their friendship forever. He never spoke to him after that. The day Taylor died of a heart attack, Clough was wracked with guilt to the point he broke down.

His reckless attitude came back to haunt him (also with the drink), and that's quite tragic I think.

Don't stress over it. You never started the thread to defend his statement.
I do remember some stupid disrepectful thing attached to him regarding Hillsborough but it's faded in the memory a bit, he couldn't keep his trap shut ey. That was his problem sometimes.
I'm not going to paint him as scum because he had a stupid opinion.
He was some type of genius that's for sure, never "liked" him but he was a colourful character who made miracles happen in football, his staff probably went un noticed they may have been more instrumental than we think.

The Damned United - certainly the film - paints a better picture of Peter Taylor's management rather than Brian Clough.

The book by David Peace doesn't provide much relief though (largely keeps Taylor in the background) - it's very bleak, and Clough does come off as psychotic and alcoholic, with players, managers and board members being terrible human beings bent on power. Similar to GB84 from the same writer - although far far bleaker than The Damned United, as every character truly is horrible.

Which surprises me that David Peace wrote a novel about Shankly - although he did state it was his first novel about a 'good man'! Not actually read Red or Dead, but wouldn't Peace's writing style suit the more claustrophobic and sinister atmospheres of all his usual work rather than the story of a good man and his success?

He definitely lived with regrets, his Hillsborough statement just one of many, but his treatment of Peter Taylor after he went behind his back and took the Derby job broke their friendship forever. He never spoke to him after that. The day Taylor died of a heart attack, Clough was wracked with guilt to the point he broke down.

His reckless attitude came back to haunt him (also with the drink), and that's quite tragic I think.

He knew from the outset his attitude and disagreement with Taylor was wrong but the Clough curse meant the chasm between them would never be bridged, he had the opportunity but would not relent.  As you say mate it broke him.
 

Hell of a football player Cloughie, my Father played for Sunderland reserves and Cloughie was coming back from a bad injury and they said to "go easy" on him, Dad said "f*ck that" he will get a kicking like every bugger else, never got near him to give him a kick, scored 5 goals then they took him off  Got some great stories me old man.

Haha that's a nice story mate. I read Clough's autobiography a while ago and it does seem like he was a very talented goalscorer, it's a shame injuries hampered his career so badly.

As for him as a manager, what he did with Forest was unreal and I've also found myself particularly interested in his life and career.