Did We Buy Too Many Players ?

After bumping along through recent non event transfer windows, it was a rush of adrenalin and an orgy of spending this summer to utilise the CL funds, the TV money and Luis' transfer bonus.
The Net spend would make an accountant purr.

When we were criticised for bringing in too many new faces and being just like the Spuds we said ...

 
"Ah Yes  .... but ours have Premier League experience.
Look at the Southampton lads". 

It will be different for us.

Is It ?

Long in the tooth managers made the comment that you can only integrate three good players into a team, in any one season.

We've already seen confusion in our defence.  We've seen comedy at set pieces against us.

Today Brendan admits that "We are a little bit broken".


Have we tried to swallow a whale with nine new signings ? 

Should we have bought fewer .... but higher quality players to integrate into the team?

Or were we so threadbare with the CL looming we needed the numbers whatever?

Liverpool are broken, says manager Brendan Rodgers

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted his team are a "little bit broken" after three defeats in their first five Premier League matches.
Rodgers, whose side are 11th in the table, said the introduction of new players had disrupted his philosophy.

"We're reintroducing the principles that brought us the win ratio we've had over the last 18 months," he said.

"Our game was based on high intensity but, apart from that Tottenham game, we've moved away from that."

Liverpool beat Tottenham 3-0 at White Hart Lane on 31 August, but have since lost two successive league games, to Aston Villa and West Ham.
They were also unconvincing in recent victories over Champions League opponents Ludogorets Razgrad and Middlesbrough in the League Cup on Tuesday.

Liverpool lost three of their opening five league games two seasons ago.
It previously happened in 1959, when they were a Second Division club.

The Anfield side had the majority of possession (62%) at Upton Park but West Ham had more shots, 13 in total and seven on target.
Mario Balotelli has not scored a Premier League goal since November 2012.

"We put in a lot of hard work in the first six months to a year we were here, and a lot of those processes became natural," added the Northern Irishman, who joined the club in 2012. "The consequence of that was winning.

"But we introduced a raft of new players - you lose the core of players who were important, and that's obviously a factor and then it becomes a bit broken.

"That's how our game has looked for a big part of the season, but I have a group of players here who identify with that.
"We need to get back and refocus on what has allowed us win games consistently over the last 18 months to two years."

Liverpool finished second last season, two points adrift of eventual champions Manchester City, but over the summer sold top scorer Luis Suarez and brought in nine players.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29364830

Did this really need it's own thread when there is already a "summer transfer dealings" thread and a "have we spent enough money since 2005" thread?

EDIT: AND a "Did Brendan spend wisely this Summer" thread?

DOUBLE EDIT: AND a "What are the reasons we have been playing poorly" thread?

And don't forget the "Can we avoid doing a Spurs?" thread.

NO

Nope

Did this really need it's own thread when there is already a "summer transfer dealings" thread and a "have we spent enough money since 2005" thread?

EDIT: AND a "Did Brendan spend wisely this Summer" thread?

DOUBLE EDIT: AND a "What are the reasons we have been playing poorly" thread?

Ah Hollywood.

Full of positivity ..... as usual.

Ah Hollywood.

Full of positivity ..... as usual.

, Euro playing the man and not the ball.....as usual.

I'll leave you to enjoy your scintillating thread, adios.

, Euro playing the man and not the ball.....as usual.

I'll leave you to enjoy your scintillating thread, adios.

 

After bumping along through recent non event transfer windows, it was a rush of adrenalin and an orgy of spending this summer to utilise the CL funds, the TV money and Luis' transfer bonus.
The Net spend would make an accountant purr.

When we were criticised for bringing in too many new faces and being just like the Spuds we said ...

 
"Ah Yes  .... but ours have Premier League experience.
Look at the Southampton lads". 

It will be different for us.

Is It ?

Long in the tooth managers made the comment that you can only integrate three good players into a team, in any one season.

We've already seen confusion in our defence.  We've seen comedy at set pieces against us.

Today Brendan admits that "We are a little bit broken".


Have we tried to swallow a whale with nine new signings ? 

Should we have bought fewer .... but higher quality players to integrate into the team?

Or were we so threadbare with the CL looming we needed the numbers whatever?

Liverpool are broken, says manager Brendan Rodgers

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted his team are a "little bit broken" after three defeats in their first five Premier League matches.
Rodgers, whose side are 11th in the table, said the introduction of new players had disrupted his philosophy.

"We're reintroducing the principles that brought us the win ratio we've had over the last 18 months," he said.

"Our game was based on high intensity but, apart from that Tottenham game, we've moved away from that."

Liverpool beat Tottenham 3-0 at White Hart Lane on 31 August, but have since lost two successive league games, to Aston Villa and West Ham.
They were also unconvincing in recent victories over Champions League opponents Ludogorets Razgrad and Middlesbrough in the League Cup on Tuesday.

Liverpool lost three of their opening five league games two seasons ago.
It previously happened in 1959, when they were a Second Division club.

The Anfield side had the majority of possession (62%) at Upton Park but West Ham had more shots, 13 in total and seven on target.
Mario Balotelli has not scored a Premier League goal since November 2012.

"We put in a lot of hard work in the first six months to a year we were here, and a lot of those processes became natural," added the Northern Irishman, who joined the club in 2012. "The consequence of that was winning.

"But we introduced a raft of new players - you lose the core of players who were important, and that's obviously a factor and then it becomes a bit broken.

"That's how our game has looked for a big part of the season, but I have a group of players here who identify with that.
"We need to get back and refocus on what has allowed us win games consistently over the last 18 months to two years."

Liverpool finished second last season, two points adrift of eventual champions Manchester City, but over the summer sold top scorer Luis Suarez and brought in nine players.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29364830

I don't think we did buy too many because the way I'd have looked at it was how many of those players are going to be full time first teamers?

Lovren - Yes
Moreno - Yes
Manquillo - Don't think he was bought as an essential starter for this year.
Can - No
Lallana - Yes
Markovic - No
Balotelli - Yes
Lambert - No
Origi - No

So essentially we bought 4 first team players, 1 was forced upon us by Luis leaving so that made our choice of being 3 more. The squad absolutely needed beefing out, we barely scraped through last season as it was.

I'd have been happier if we'd aimed a bracket higher with at least one more of those first team players. I think Moreno will be world class but the others I think are a tier below that and what they were replacing was either World class or a similar level to what they are.

Lovren for Agger
Lallana for Coutinho/Henderson

Maybe time will show there's more world class talent in there and there's no doubting given the injuries that we needed that squad already. If last season we suffered a similar start we'd be struggling even more.

The truth is that we brought in more with the staying of Borini and Suso, those guys weren't with us last year either so Brendan and the coaches have double the numbers to work with almost. I've accepted, because of this, that this year is a transition year, the cream will rise to the top and each player will find their level in the group. I don't think we'll lose any value on the squad so we've essentially spread the wealth of Luis throughout the numbers, as long as we can make it into the CL for the following year I think we can then add a couple of world class players in the correct positions to narrow the gap to the front two.

Our squad needed depth, if we hadn't bought as many as we did then we'd be fu**ed right now considering some of the injuries we have.

Johnson, Can, Sturridge, Coutinho, Henderson?, Allen etc.

We needed depth especially with CL football this season so I think we needed all the players we bought and maybe even some more.

I know the boss won't play too many of the new lads all at once unless he really has to so it isn't a concern for me.

After bumping along through recent non event transfer windows, it was a rush of adrenalin and an orgy of spending this summer to utilise the CL funds, the TV money and Luis' transfer bonus.
The Net spend would make an accountant purr.

When we were criticised for bringing in too many new faces and being just like the Spuds we said ...

 
"Ah Yes  .... but ours have Premier League experience.
Look at the Southampton lads". 

It will be different for us.

Is It ?

Long in the tooth managers made the comment that you can only integrate three good players into a team, in any one season.

We've already seen confusion in our defence.  We've seen comedy at set pieces against us.

Today Brendan admits that "We are a little bit broken".


Have we tried to swallow a whale with nine new signings ? 

Should we have bought fewer .... but higher quality players to integrate into the team?

Or were we so threadbare with the CL looming we needed the numbers whatever?

Liverpool are broken, says manager Brendan Rodgers

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted his team are a "little bit broken" after three defeats in their first five Premier League matches.
Rodgers, whose side are 11th in the table, said the introduction of new players had disrupted his philosophy.

"We're reintroducing the principles that brought us the win ratio we've had over the last 18 months," he said.

"Our game was based on high intensity but, apart from that Tottenham game, we've moved away from that."

Liverpool beat Tottenham 3-0 at White Hart Lane on 31 August, but have since lost two successive league games, to Aston Villa and West Ham.
They were also unconvincing in recent victories over Champions League opponents Ludogorets Razgrad and Middlesbrough in the League Cup on Tuesday.

Liverpool lost three of their opening five league games two seasons ago.
It previously happened in 1959, when they were a Second Division club.

The Anfield side had the majority of possession (62%) at Upton Park but West Ham had more shots, 13 in total and seven on target.
Mario Balotelli has not scored a Premier League goal since November 2012.

"We put in a lot of hard work in the first six months to a year we were here, and a lot of those processes became natural," added the Northern Irishman, who joined the club in 2012. "The consequence of that was winning.

"But we introduced a raft of new players - you lose the core of players who were important, and that's obviously a factor and then it becomes a bit broken.

"That's how our game has looked for a big part of the season, but I have a group of players here who identify with that.
"We need to get back and refocus on what has allowed us win games consistently over the last 18 months to two years."

Liverpool finished second last season, two points adrift of eventual champions Manchester City, but over the summer sold top scorer Luis Suarez and brought in nine players.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29364830

Some might say its early days. But TBH some might say that if we were any more like post-Bale Spurs, we'd be converting to Judaism.. 

I'm too tired to answer the whole question you pose, but I've always been an advocate of buying one full player, rather than 2 half players. Additionally, I'd have done a full rebuild when Fenway took over, then bought very little 18months after.

As an example, instead of Allen+Henderson, one of the world's great midfielders would have been affordable.
Carroll+Downing for someone not far off Ronaldo level.
Or instead of Lallana+Coutinho+ a few quid, a truly great playmaker.

After bumping along through recent non event transfer windows, it was a rush of adrenalin and an orgy of spending this summer to utilise the CL funds, the TV money and Luis' transfer bonus.
The Net spend would make an accountant purr.

When we were criticised for bringing in too many new faces and being just like the Spuds we said ...

 
"Ah Yes  .... but ours have Premier League experience.
Look at the Southampton lads". 

It will be different for us.

Is It ?

Long in the tooth managers made the comment that you can only integrate three good players into a team, in any one season.

We've already seen confusion in our defence.  We've seen comedy at set pieces against us.

Today Brendan admits that "We are a little bit broken".


Have we tried to swallow a whale with nine new signings ? 

Should we have bought fewer .... but higher quality players to integrate into the team?

Or were we so threadbare with the CL looming we needed the numbers whatever?

Liverpool are broken, says manager Brendan Rodgers

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has admitted his team are a "little bit broken" after three defeats in their first five Premier League matches.
Rodgers, whose side are 11th in the table, said the introduction of new players had disrupted his philosophy.

"We're reintroducing the principles that brought us the win ratio we've had over the last 18 months," he said.

"Our game was based on high intensity but, apart from that Tottenham game, we've moved away from that."

Liverpool beat Tottenham 3-0 at White Hart Lane on 31 August, but have since lost two successive league games, to Aston Villa and West Ham.
They were also unconvincing in recent victories over Champions League opponents Ludogorets Razgrad and Middlesbrough in the League Cup on Tuesday.

Liverpool lost three of their opening five league games two seasons ago.
It previously happened in 1959, when they were a Second Division club.

The Anfield side had the majority of possession (62%) at Upton Park but West Ham had more shots, 13 in total and seven on target.
Mario Balotelli has not scored a Premier League goal since November 2012.

"We put in a lot of hard work in the first six months to a year we were here, and a lot of those processes became natural," added the Northern Irishman, who joined the club in 2012. "The consequence of that was winning.

"But we introduced a raft of new players - you lose the core of players who were important, and that's obviously a factor and then it becomes a bit broken.

"That's how our game has looked for a big part of the season, but I have a group of players here who identify with that.
"We need to get back and refocus on what has allowed us win games consistently over the last 18 months to two years."

Liverpool finished second last season, two points adrift of eventual champions Manchester City, but over the summer sold top scorer Luis Suarez and brought in nine players.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29364830

Welcome back Skip 

It's no for me mate, like some have mentioned already we needed to strengthen and add quality to the squad, but it's still too early to say whether all signings are successful,

It's a good point made as to the actual quality we have purchased though, but again only time will tell us,

I reckon we are looking to much into last season's brilliant campaign and expecting a similar scenario,  however it's totally different this time,

The players brought in have to gel properly with some taking longer to bed in than others, factor in our injuries will obviously extend the settling in process,

No I don't think we have bought too many, in fact maybe one or two more higher quality players would have helped us more especially in these early stages.


YNWA

A very barbed enquiry Skip, there are a number of involved responses.

Should the squad have been allowed to merit the skeleton description that was applied after the wage bill was trimmed?
This in itself was an issue that needed addressing.

How would the exquisite skills of Suarez be replaced with potential signings less than willing to join a slimmed down outfit somewhat lacking in quality?
Which precludes the question of should the Suarez fee be used en bloc for a like for like signing or to improve the squad in general?

Those propositions point to a very ponderous and less than positive response to the thread title, too much too soon instead of a well managed transition.
The alternative answer is that false economies do bite arses.





































?

I am a firm believer in the old Shankly  system, ie you get the basis of the team and then you add one or two players and if necessary you throw them in the reserves till they learn the Liverpool way. The best examples I can give are when Willie Stevenson(pure class ) took over from Tommy Leishman and the Mighty Emlyn Hughes took over from Gordon Milne.

I'd hate to see what the squad would look if we hadn't signed so many players.

Article says 9 players.

Manquillo
Lovren
Moreno
Can
Lallana
Markovic
Lambert
Balotelli

Origi has gone back on loan.

The way injuries have hit there have been 5 or 6 of those players guaranteed to start.
That's probably gone against us and Brendan seems to have admitted such.
But then we all know that's what's wrong and it should improve as the season progresses.
Players come back from injury, the new players adapt to the style and system,
and the second half of the season should be much improved.

Imagine the hole the team would be in without the 8 signings.

It's been said before, "Doing a Spurs" wouldn't actually be that bad.
I hope we don't bin our manager mid season, but finishing on 80 points
would be the equivalent of "Doing a Spurs" and I'd imagine quite a few posters
would gladly take that right now. Pretty much guarantees Champions League.

No, I don't think we signed too many players.
I think we badly F***ing needed them.

The Net spend would make an accountant purr

And make a Spurs fan laugh in disbelief.

Eurored, you sum it up perfectly.

I am a firm believer in the old Shankly  system, ie you get the basis of the team and then you add one or two players and if necessary you throw them in the reserves till they learn the Liverpool way. The best examples I can give are when Willie Stevenson(pure class ) took over from Tommy Leishman and the Mighty Emlyn Hughes took over from Gordon Milne.

Exactly. I'd go 1 step further and ask what Paisley did.
Sold Keegan 500k and bought Kenny 440k AND Souness 325k AND numerous more.
In todays terms thats like spending 66m AND 56m on Luis's replacements!

In contrast, what we did this Summer was the equivalent of selling Keegan and buying Frank Worthington or John Richards, with Mick Mills and a couple of others thrown in.

As said elsewhere, when we sold Souness, that was the end of our heyday, for... well ever really.
It meant  even Souness's team mates - Wark, Whelan, Lee, Johnson never performed to the same level, and only Whelan continued for a long time after.

Selling Xabi and Masch was a midfield disaster. And selling Nano caused struggles, even with Luis settling in.

Selling superstars with piecemeal replacement is a sign of mugs.

But hey... accountants LOVED IT!


PS we didn't buy too many players. We bought too few experienced, ABSOLUTE top quality players.

No

In short - no. What we or at least Brendan did was to identify some wrong 'uns...again. He was supposedly buying players that were going to slot straight into his system of plays. The problem with that...what was going to be the system now that the dynamics of the team had changed with the departure of Suarez.

The last 18 months was all about getting the best out of Luis and that's how the team was set-up. It was a system ideal for pace to create space.

What I'd like to see is that when Studge comes back, Rodgers will play Sterling up front with him. Balo is neither quick enough or industrious enough to pull players out of position to create those pockets of space needed to expose teams like we did last season.

I don't think the problem is with who we signed, but rather with who we didn't, insofar as positions. We needed a defence upgrade because as good as he did last season, Flanagan isn't the answer for fullback. But we needed to replace Reina with a top class goalkeeper who had a  commanding presence that could instil confidence in our defenders, with better distribution able to either replace or provide competition for places with Mignolet and we completely failed in that regard. We needed an upgrade on Borini and we signed Lambert as that but then bought Balotelli who is by and large, the same kind of player when what we needed was a replacement for Suarez's goals, a pacey and/or tricky forward who could not only partner Sturridge but lead the line when he was injured and again in that regard we utterly failed. So no, I don't think we bought many players, rather I believe we bought the wrong players.

Selling Xabi and Masch was a midfield disaster.
Selling superstars with piecemeal replacement is a sign of mugs.
But hey... accountants LOVED IT!

This.

Could you imagine if we were not a selling club?

                         Reina
Arbeloa  Masch  Lovren  Moreno
                        Alonso
              Hendo          Coutinho
                       Sterling
              Suarez     Sturridge

This team would walk the league..

No, don't think we bought too many players. We're already stretched and it's only Sept.
In all probability, not all will work out, but hopefully the majority do and assuming we're still in contention come Jan, we might do a small bit of business.
With Studge/Allen back, Coutinho hitting his targets, maybe Can showing some form, things should turn around.
Big game tomorrow...