The Top 4. Can we get there?

Sorry to pick this out of an excellent read buddy but...

Aguero signed for City the season following their F.A. Cup win [2011] and Sanchez signed for Arsenal the season following their F.A. Cup win [2014] - just saying like. 

Anyway... as we've seen for ourselves, the lure of Champions League football isn't always enough to "bring a Sanchez" but what is guaranteed to bring top quality players to a team is a big wage - that and the chance of winners medals, of course. 

  true!

BUT, with City and Chelsea their performance on the pitch is irrelevant when signing players as they can leave a dotted line and pay whatever the player wants. If they had or hadn't won a trophy the season previous, Aguero would have signed anyway.

Arsenal are no better than us, I'd say we have a better first 11 than them, but nobody can deny that they are an established CL side. Obviously residing in London and playing at the Emirates weekly is an attraction too I suppose. No More than playing in front of the Kop or living in er, croxteth, though   

If Southampton won the FA cup this season but finished 8th in the league, top players around Europe won't care. If we finish 5th and win the FA cup, they won't care. Our history and the size of our club isn't enough for the best players to join us any more in my opinion.

We need to secure CL football every season so in 3 or 4 years time we can say we are an established CL side ourselves, we can pay you decent wages, come and play for us and we'll push on for titles now.

For the next 3 or 4 seasons Id go without a domestic cup as long as we had CL football each season and we were investing in quality players every summer to build a squad that will challenge for the league and the European Cup in a few seasons time. I have no problem admitting that.

We need to secure CL football every season so in 3 or 4 years time we can say we are an established CL side ourselves, we can pay you decent wages, come and play for us and we'll push on for titles now.

Hmm... Now I'm confused. I'm sure we agreed that a club can attract top quality players (without CL football) by paying top wages.

I'm also sure that we can afford top wages as of now [Luis' £200k p.w.]. Add to that, the fact, that we already have CL football and we're already a big (the biggest, in fact), well established, British name, in European Cup history and I'll need reminding why we have to wait 3 or 4 years.

A couple of quick question (just because I'm curious): #1 - would cementing a place in the top 4 been any less likely had we signed and paid the wages of 2/3 top quality players - a) yes or b) no and #2 - would the chances of winning the league have been enhanced with the addition of 2/3 top quality players - a) yes or b) no?

Hmm... Now I'm confused. I'm sure we agreed that a club can attract top quality players (without CL football) by paying top wages.

I'm also sure that we can afford top wages as of now [Luis' £200k p.w.]. Add to that, the fact, that we already have CL football and we're already a big (the biggest, in fact), well established, British name, in European Cup history and I'll need reminding why we have to wait 3 or 4 years.

A couple of quick question (just because I'm curious): #1 - would cementing a place in the top 4 been any less likely had we signed and paid the wages of 2/3 top quality players - a) yes or b) no and #2 - would the chances of winning the league have been enhanced with the addition of 2/3 top quality players - a) yes or b) no?

There is nothing to be confused about but are you comparing ourselves to City or Chelsea?

We aren't in the same category as City or Chelsea and can't offer the wages that they can. For those two clubs in particular, it appears to be irrelevant how the perform on the pitch. A player would join either of those clubs because 1. City or Chelsea can pay the transfer fee firstly. and 2. They can offer double the wages a club like Liverpool can.

It is my belief, and I may be wrong, but we offered Suarez 200K per week to sign a five year deal knowing full well he was already leaving in the summer. I think both the club and Suarez were in on it. Suarez then left for 75m because we were in a strong position. If it wasn't for the bite I think he would have gone for 100+. But in general sense, we cannot afford to pay players 200K a week.

Of course we are a massive club but I don't believe that is enough to attract the top players here. We've been finishing outside the top 4 for the last few seasons.

I think it'll take 3-4 years in the CL before we can attract top top players here. 3-4 seasons playing CL football seeing our name in the hat every season should attract players, proving that this season isn't just a one off fluke. In 3-4 seasons time presuming we are playing CL football every season, then we should have enough money in our pockets by then to (going back to the top) 1. pay transfer fees and 2. pay wages.

That's why I would take a top 4 finish for the next few seasons than winning the FA or league cup because I think it'll benefit us more in the long run.




 

Yes we can.

Just watch us go now, Allen & studger coming back, the new boys like lallana starting to settle. We will start putting a run of wins together between now and xmas.

I knows it, we can get at least 3rd spot this season. #believe.

I think it'll take 3-4 years in the CL before we can attract top top players here. 3-4 seasons playing CL football seeing our name in the hat every season should attract players, proving that this season isn't just a one off fluke. In 3-4 seasons time presuming we are playing CL football every season, then we should have enough money in our pockets by then to (going back to the top) 1. pay transfer fees and 2. pay wages.

Thanks for the reply HTM.

So you reckon it could be another 4 years, bringing the total to 8, before our owners (who "can compete with anyone in the transfer market" remember) will be able to afford the wages top quality players command and only if we save up; is that correct?

Jaysus lad - I, sure as there's sh*t in a cat, hope you're wrong. The future you paint is grim and any 'policy' based on it - dodgy as F**k... relying, as it does on continual qualification under austere conditions.

You could very well be right but I still believe (for e.g.) that the wages we pay our eleventynine new signings could easily pay 3 or 4 top quality players; that we could afford at least one a year (in the time-frame you describe) and more importantly...

Champions League qualification [continual, at that] is more likely with top quality players.

Pay the wages and players will come - with or without 4 or F***ing 5 years of continual CL qualification... In my opinion, obviously.

And end up like Leeds BBB, if we didn't qualify?

I don't think our future is grim, I think FSG are just cautious with spending money.

What is our net spend since they came in? To be honest with you I'm not sure, I haven't researched it and don't get too involved with the politics of the club, but it appears that we spend what we sell from were I'm sitting.

We will never be able to compete financially with certain clubs while FSG are running ours, but I believe that they will reinvest into the team anything we earn - including CL funds.

I keep mentioning 3-4 seasons in the CL, that is just a guess on my part, but I'd imagine after 4 seasons playing CL football we would have enough money in the pot to make a few 'marquee signings' if you like.

And end up like Leeds BBB, if we didn't qualify?

I don't think our future is grim, I think FSG are just cautious with spending money.

What is our net spend since they came in? To be honest with you I'm not sure, I haven't researched it and don't get too involved with the politics of the club, but it appears that we spend what we sell from were I'm sitting.

We will never be able to compete financially with certain clubs while FSG are running ours, but I believe that they will reinvest into the team anything we earn - including CL funds.

I keep mentioning 3-4 seasons in the CL, that is just a guess on my part, but I'd imagine after 4 seasons playing CL football we would have enough money in the pot to make a few 'marquee signings' if you like.

Not sure why we can't make a "marquee" signing now? Our net spend last year was zero.
With Suarez £200K along with Pepe, Carra and Danny wages off the payroll, along with extra CL money we can easily afford a mega salary signing.

Caveat being are the owners ambitious enough?

And end up like Leeds BBB, if we didn't qualify?

That aul one - isn't that what FPP is supposed to stop?

Read what was written again ffs - I didn't say spend money we haven't got or couldn't afford.

We had it; we'll have it [additional TV money, additional CL money, additional sponsorship] and we can afford it... Look at how much we spent (fees and wages ), on squad players, during the summer: can't afford good wages my arse!

Leeds? Gimme a break.

That aul one - isn't that what FPP is supposed to stop?

Read what was written again ffs - I didn't say spend money we haven't got or couldn't afford.

We had it; we'll have it [additional TV money, additional CL money, additional sponsorship] and we can afford it... Look at how much we spent (fees and wages ), on squad players, during the summer: can't afford good wages my arse!

Leeds? Gimme a break.

Which of ours summer signings do you only rate as squad signings? i think they are all good positive signings. Lallana for example is a superb signing, Lovren walked straight into the team. Balotelli I believe will come good when partnered up front. Can will be pushing for a first team place. Moreno is a superb LB, again walking straight into the team. Manquillo and Lambert are the only squad type players I can think of but with Glen's injury, thank God we did get Manquillo in. You see it is quite important to have a squad as well as players on £300k per week.

You see it is quite important to have a squad as well as players on £300k per week.

£300k per week?   

The only "first team improver" is Lallana - the rest... as of and up til now - squad 'depth' and no better than what we had (in my opinion).

But... it's only that: an opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with it and (to be honest) I couldn't care less one way or the other. 

The only "first team improver" is Lallana - the rest... as of and up til now - squad 'depth' and no better than what we had (in my opinion).

Theres a stark truth in what you say.

, I know I said I wouldn't reply but come on mate, are you being serious here?

Nah I'm not lad, I'm taking the piss. I mean why would any Liverpool fan believe they can win the League before a ball has been kicked. God forbid.

Ok, I understand you love Liverpool and you want us to succeed, obviously we all do.

Truth be told, I think there's some who don't want us to succeed because they're much happier moaning about our failings than they are enjoying our victories. Even if we were successful, they'd complain. There's a famous Emlyn Hughes story where we've just beaten some team 4-0 and he was out having a scran with his missus when some fan came up to him saying we should of scored at least 6.

I also doubt there's some who love Liverpool on here. But that may be just me. (and before you get your knickers in a twist, I'm not accusing you of not loving or wanting us to succeed)

Don't let that cloud your judgement though and have a serious discussion regarding the topic title.

The topic title is can we make the top four. I think we can because I think we can win the League - how is that clouding the topic title? We both believe we'll make the top four. I just believe we'll do it by winning the League. You believe we'll get fourth.

I also believe in Brendan and the current squad. I believe that given time he will get it right and we'll be consistently challenging at the top of the league, year in year out.

Sound.

I believe that now. I look forward to you joining me.

You have no shame in saying we will win the league year in year out?

No.

I've never been ashamed to admit that I believe in this club. We could take a hiding week in week out, I'll still say we'll win the League. And then once that dream is over (again!) I'll say we'll finish second.

Best way to explain it, I believe Liverpool will win every game they play - whether that be at home to Torquay in the League Cup or away to Bayern Munich in the European Cup and therefore, I believe Liverpool will win every trophy. I know it's not gonna happen, no team in history wins every game. But before every game, I still believe we're gonna win.

Even seasons we finished 7th and played dreadful football, Hodgson being our manager and Konchesky being our marquee signing?

Yes even then I believed we'd win the League.

Ok, maybe shame isn't the word to use, but come off it, you knew as well as anybody that we wouldn't win the league in those circumstances with the way H&G were running the club.

Why?

Yes we were at a bad time, on and off the field. But I didn't know we wouldn't win the League, and until it became impossible for us to win it I held on to the little bit of hope that I had that we would. People think they know too many things in the world of football but the game has a nasty habit of biting people on the arse. Go and ask all those Everton and United fans who were laughing at half time on the 25th May 2005. They thought they knew who'd be winning the European Cup.

People think they know that Chelsea may well very win the League this year. That doesn't make it fact because somebody thinks. I think we'll win the League this year, next year, the year after and for the next century.

If you genuinely believed we would then it is pointless discussing football with you any further.

Ta ra then.

I admit last season took me surprise and we almost won it, we should have won it. I predicted a top 4 challenge at the start of the season but in December I changed my mind and said we would win it, after we went to spurs and battered them 5-0. So I agree with you in the sense we can beat the odds and anything can happen if you like.

Last season I said we'd win the League as soon as the previous season finished - I also predicted we'd win the League that year as well. (even if BigMick decided to claim to be the first to say we'd mount a serious challenged ). This year, I predict we'll win the League. My prediction is we'll win the League next year.

This season though, we don't have Luis, we have put all our eggs in one basket with sturridge - the only player in my opinion who will score 20+ this season but I fear he will miss many games through injury,

We would of been without Suarez anyway up to this point (maybe further, I don't recall when his ban is up and as he doesn't play for us any more I couldn't really give a sh*te when it's up).

But I don't think we've pinned our hopes on Sturridge alone. The players we have now should be as capable of scoring as many goals as we did last year. Yes, we won't have a 30 goal a season Suarez but we'll have (or at least should) more goals from Balotelli, Lambert, Borini, Lallana, Markovic, Can, Lovren and Moreno than what we got last year from Aspas, Alberto, Moses, Lucas, Allen, Agger, Enrique.

Also Sterling, Coutinho and Henderson will hopefully contribute a few more. Gerrard will get his share (set pieces mainly). The goalscoring shouldn't be an issue.

we have a new back 4

We've had a relatively new back four due to injuries. I don't think Brendan would of wanted to play Manquillo as much as he has. (disappointing to me that I think he'd rather have Johnson there, I'd rather see Flanagan).

But if we got the back four that I think Brendan wants it'd look like;

Johnson - Skrtel - Lovren - Moreno.

That's not a new back line. That's two seasoned Liverpool players, a Premiership proven centre half and our best signing of the summer thus far. As well as a keeper we've had for 12 months now. It's not like we've started from scratch.

The problem is the defence don't have confidence in the keeper and the keeper doesn't have confidence in any of them. (and just for those who wanna pin the blame on one man, it's all Gerrard's fault for not covering the full backs)

Its going to take a bit of time and we will struggle at times this season, we've already shown that.

Aye but we struggled at times last year and still, in your words, should of won the League.

We couldn't put three passes together in the second half of games at the start of last year. Southampton beat us at Anfield and it was slit your wrist time. Yes we'll struggle at times this year, so will other clubs. But struggling ain't gonna stop me believing.

Our football has at times been awful to watch.

It was at times last year.

It will be at times next year.

That's football. You can't play like the great pass and move Liverpool sides every single minute of every single game. There's gonna be games where it just doesn't click. The hope is you still get results while playing that badly like we did at the start of last year with those three 1-0 wins. This year, we haven't been as fortunate.

We will also show our brilliance though, like we did again at Tottenham.

Got something right.

But point being, we wont be consistent enough to win the league and come on, you know that, and other teams such as city and Chelsea will be consistent and out of our reach.

Why won't we? How do you know that?

Who's to say we don't string 10 or 11 wins together (again) and sit comfortably on top at Crimbo. Sturridge rediscovers full fitness, Balotelli goes through a purple patch, Sterling finds his best form, Coutinho starts splitting teams open like only he can, Henderson's player of the month award spurs him on,  the defence sorts itself out.

These are all possibilities (some far fetched I admit) but it could happen. I'm not gonna throw in the towel right now. Sorry for still being a divvy.

Im not happy with finishing fourth at all, I doubt anybody is

I think you'll find some are.

As long as we're in the Champions League then everything is hunky-dory.

I want Liverpool to win the league every season, its something I've never seen

I'd love to know how much money I've spent on following them home and away for the last 26 years

So you say you've followed us home and away for 26 years - but never seen us win the League.

We last won the League in 1990 (24 years ago). Somebody is telling porkies aren't they?

but football is a lot different now.

To quote Ronnie Moran - "the pitch and goals are the same size"

Footballers nowadays may be fitter with their excellent diets and training regimes as opposed to steak dinners and chippys, 40 smokes a day and 20 pints a week where the idea of training was running up and down the sand hills on Formby beach. The pitches may be better, with undersoil heating and draining systems, carpet like grass as opposed to the muddy bog fields they used to pass off as a football pitch. The art of tackling may be all but dead unlike yesteryear when you had Ron Harris or Billy Bremner kicking chunks out of you. Travelling might be easier because you get to almost destination you want within a day rather than spending four or five days to get to Scotland and back.

But ultimately football is still 11 men against 11 men (though in some cases I use the word men loosely) where the aim of the game is to outscore your opponent.

We need to be in the CL regularly.

And we don't get that by winning the League? Oops my mistake.

It'll give us money to go out and strengthen.

That's not necessarily true. Arsenal have been in the European Cup every year since Wenger has been then, I'd say the squad he inherited is better than this one. Celtic are in the European Cup every year and their squad is nowhere near as good as it was back in the early 2000s.

In fact I'd say our 2001 treble winning squad (at a time when us as a club hadn't been in Europe's premier competition since the Heysel disaster in 85) was better than the side that went on to the final in 2007 European Cup final despite that team being in the Champions League 5 out of the 6 seasons in between.

Being in the Champions League regularly doesn't guarantee strengthening the squad.

Especially when you consider we have the likes of City and Chelsea to compete with financially, we need every penny we can get.

So what?

Spending huge amounts of money doesn't mean jack sh*t if you buy the wrong players. And we had to compete with those clubs last season, but as you say, we should of won the League.

Players will see we are back amongst the best consistently and will want to come here.

Well then they can F**k off.

You play for Liverpool Football Club because it's the biggest club in the world not because we happen to be one of thirty-two teams in the European Cup. If a player didn't wanna come here last year when we weren't in the Champions League, then I don't want him here period.

So some of us will take top 4 for a couple of seasons on the bounce while we get our act together.

And winning the League isn't in the top four? Oops another mistake on my part.

People say they would rather have an FA cup than finishing 4th.

I'm one of them.

I like to see my club win things. Don't ever remember jumping up and down with a fourth place finish. Those open top bus parades with a fourth place finish are something special though aren't they?

I have no problem with admitting id take fourth at THIS moment in time instead.

One of those then. Last post replying to you.

An FA cup is nice, but it won't bring a Sanchez or an Aguero here. The CL will.

Well good.

As I've already said, if they don't wanna be here without Champions League football then they can F**k off. (oh and didn't Sanchez tell us to piss off this summer when we're in the Champions League?)

Just to remind you though, we signed Suarez (arguably the world's greatest player) without Champions League football.

Generate some money, build a top squad, challenge consistently.

Think I may of said it to you before but go hibernate then cos obviously the next couple of years are complete write offs. Even the Cups don't matter.

We finished 7th the other season so you are expecting way too much thinking we will win the league the following season like you state

We finished 7th in 2012-13.

You said yourself you thought we'd win the League in 2013-14.

Now you're having a go at me for thinking that way. And it's me who's the divvy?

considering we were linked with Carlton Cole all that summer.

And what? Regular Champions League football brought us Andriy Voronin.

To answer the topic question anyway, I predict Chelsea and City to finish above us this season. I think Arsenal will too. Its a race between us, mancs and spurs for fourth - one that I think we will win by a few points come the end.

I think you're wrong.

Theres a stark truth in what you say.

Can we ?

Studge injured again and have to wait till transfer window for a REAL striker.

A defence that sometimes has no idea what they are doing.

Top 4 ?

Is that top 4 material ?

Nothing about the other teams in this league make me think we can't get at least Top 4.

Nothing about the other teams in this league make me think we can't get at least Top 4.

Nothing about us at the moment that says we can Rodders.

Nothing about us at the moment that says we can Rodders.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.  I see nothing that says we can't, we'd be in their right now if not for a once in a lifetime strike from Phil Jagielka.  Chelsea are the only team that have truly impressed me this season and even they have a weakness, if you can exploit that narrow bit of space in front of Terry and Cahill, you can get at them. 

I find your lack of faith disturbing.  I see nothing that says we can't, we'd be in their right now if not for a once in a lifetime strike from Phil Jagielka.  Chelsea are the only team that have truly impressed me this season and even they have a weakness, if you can exploit that narrow bit of space in front of Terry and Cahill, you can get at them. 

Come on Rodders.   You know me.   Thats bollocks.

Its just that certain policies we have followed look like they are coming home to roost.
We spent a fortune in the summer and has already been posted elsewhere Lallana is the only one to have shown real quality.
With Brendan now claiming that we bulked up .... the argument is valid that maybe we should have bought higher quality players than quantity.

We will see.
We may have overachieved on a threadbare squad to come in second (and if we had had a half decent defence we could have nailed it)  the idea in any evolution is to progress. 

Im not buying into the "bedding in" excuse.

Mourinho bought three quality players and brought his GK back from loan.
The spine of the team.

It is said so many times that in any one season to bed in more than three players is a risky strategy.


There is nothing more I want to see us qualify for the CL for the second year running and ongoing.
Its what we all want.

I'm just living in the real world with real expectations albeit early in the season. 



Q : Have we any goalscorers ?

Come on Rodders.   You know me. Thats bollocks.

Its just that certain policies we have followed look like they are coming home to roost.
We spent a fortune in the summer and has already been posted elsewhere Lallana is the only one to have shown real quality.
With Brendan now claiming that we bulked up .... the argument is valid that maybe we should have bought higher quality players than quantity.

We will see.
We may have overachieved on a threadbare squad to come in second (and if we had had a half decent defence we could have nailed it)  the idea in any evolution is to progress. 

Im not buying into the "bedding in" excuse.

Mourinho bought three quality players and brought his GK back from loan.
The spine of the team.

It is said so many times that in any one season to bed in more than three players is a risky strategy.


There is nothing more I want to see us qualify for the CL for the second year running and ongoing.
Its what we all want.

Im just lliving in the real world with real expectations.

And you know me and some players take more time to be in than others, Chelsea had a Champions League squad already and only needed to add a few, we needed to build a squad to take on the prospect of Champions League, getting in just three players wouldn't have cut it.  I find it funny that some dismiss the need to bed in players when we used to stick them in the reserves for a year to get 'em ready for the first team.

I don't think my exepectations are unreal, I realise we have some problems, they aren't insurmountable and looking at other squads, I'm just more optimistic than you, but in no way unrealistic, in this case. 

As for last season, for me it wasn't the shaky defence, it was the back to back defeats against Man City and Chelsea that killed us off for the title.

Come on Rodders.   You know me.   Thats bollocks.

Its just that certain policies we have followed look like they are coming home to roost.
We spent a fortune in the summer and has already been posted elsewhere Lallana is the only one to have shown real quality.
With Brendan now claiming that we bulked up .... the argument is valid that maybe we should have bought higher quality players than quantity.

We will see.
We may have overachieved on a threadbare squad to come in second (and if we had had a half decent defence we could have nailed it)  the idea in any evolution is to progress. 

Im not buying into the "bedding in" excuse.

Mourinho bought three quality players and brought his GK back from loan.
The spine of the team.

It is said so many times that in any one season to bed in more than three players is a risky strategy.


There is nothing more I want to see us qualify for the CL for the second year running and ongoing.
Its what we all want.

I'm just living in the real world with real expectations albeit early in the season. 



Q : Have we any goalscorers ?

Not that I disagree with you but bear in mind other teams have their problems too which is our only saving grace right now. Whether we finish in a top four place is largely out of our hands and down to how adversely those problems our rivals have effect them. Looking at the fixtures, hopefully he's back for the Chelsea game. We need to stay in contention until January and then do then what we should have done in the Summer as our top priority - sign a bloody goal scorer. The troubling thing is though, if we don't finish in the top 4, baring some economic collapse at the rich teams, can't see us ever getting back in again.

Nah I'm not lad, I'm taking the piss. I mean why would any Liverpool fan believe they can win the League before a ball has been kicked. God forbid.

Truth be told, I think there's some who don't want us to succeed because they're much happier moaning about our failings than they are enjoying our victories. Even if we were successful, they'd complain. There's a famous Emlyn Hughes story where we've just beaten some team 4-0 and he was out having a scran with his missus when some fan came up to him saying we should of scored at least 6.

I also doubt there's some who love Liverpool on here. But that may be just me. (and before you get your knickers in a twist, I'm not accusing you of not loving or wanting us to succeed)

The topic title is can we make the top four. I think we can because I think we can win the League - how is that clouding the topic title? We both believe we'll make the top four. I just believe we'll do it by winning the League. You believe we'll get fourth.

Sound.

I believe that now. I look forward to you joining me.

No.

I've never been ashamed to admit that I believe in this club. We could take a hiding week in week out, I'll still say we'll win the League. And then once that dream is over (again!) I'll say we'll finish second.

Best way to explain it, I believe Liverpool will win every game they play - whether that be at home to Torquay in the League Cup or away to Bayern Munich in the European Cup and therefore, I believe Liverpool will win every trophy. I know it's not gonna happen, no team in history wins every game. But before every game, I still believe we're gonna win.

Yes even then I believed we'd win the League.

Why?

Yes we were at a bad time, on and off the field. But I didn't know we wouldn't win the League, and until it became impossible for us to win it I held on to the little bit of hope that I had that we would. People think they know too many things in the world of football but the game has a nasty habit of biting people on the arse. Go and ask all those Everton and United fans who were laughing at half time on the 25th May 2005. They thought they knew who'd be winning the European Cup.

People think they know that Chelsea may well very win the League this year. That doesn't make it fact because somebody thinks. I think we'll win the League this year, next year, the year after and for the next century.

Ta ra then.

Last season I said we'd win the League as soon as the previous season finished - I also predicted we'd win the League that year as well. (even if BigMick decided to claim to be the first to say we'd mount a serious challenged ). This year, I predict we'll win the League. My prediction is we'll win the League next year.

We would of been without Suarez anyway up to this point (maybe further, I don't recall when his ban is up and as he doesn't play for us any more I couldn't really give a sh*te when it's up).

But I don't think we've pinned our hopes on Sturridge alone. The players we have now should be as capable of scoring as many goals as we did last year. Yes, we won't have a 30 goal a season Suarez but we'll have (or at least should) more goals from Balotelli, Lambert, Borini, Lallana, Markovic, Can, Lovren and Moreno than what we got last year from Aspas, Alberto, Moses, Lucas, Allen, Agger, Enrique.

Also Sterling, Coutinho and Henderson will hopefully contribute a few more. Gerrard will get his share (set pieces mainly). The goalscoring shouldn't be an issue.

We've had a relatively new back four due to injuries. I don't think Brendan would of wanted to play Manquillo as much as he has. (disappointing to me that I think he'd rather have Johnson there, I'd rather see Flanagan).

But if we got the back four that I think Brendan wants it'd look like;

Johnson - Skrtel - Lovren - Moreno.

That's not a new back line. That's two seasoned Liverpool players, a Premiership proven centre half and our best signing of the summer thus far. As well as a keeper we've had for 12 months now. It's not like we've started from scratch.

The problem is the defence don't have confidence in the keeper and the keeper doesn't have confidence in any of them. (and just for those who wanna pin the blame on one man, it's all Gerrard's fault for not covering the full backs)

Aye but we struggled at times last year and still, in your words, should of won the League.

We couldn't put three passes together in the second half of games at the start of last year. Southampton beat us at Anfield and it was slit your wrist time. Yes we'll struggle at times this year, so will other clubs. But struggling ain't gonna stop me believing.

It was at times last year.

It will be at times next year.

That's football. You can't play like the great pass and move Liverpool sides every single minute of every single game. There's gonna be games where it just doesn't click. The hope is you still get results while playing that badly like we did at the start of last year with those three 1-0 wins. This year, we haven't been as fortunate.

Got something right.

Why won't we? How do you know that?

Who's to say we don't string 10 or 11 wins together (again) and sit comfortably on top at Crimbo. Sturridge rediscovers full fitness, Balotelli goes through a purple patch, Sterling finds his best form, Coutinho starts splitting teams open like only he can, Henderson's player of the month award spurs him on,  the defence sorts itself out.

These are all possibilities (some far fetched I admit) but it could happen. I'm not gonna throw in the towel right now. Sorry for still being a divvy.

I think you'll find some are.

As long as we're in the Champions League then everything is hunky-dory.

So you say you've followed us home and away for 26 years - but never seen us win the League.

We last won the League in 1990 (24 years ago). Somebody is telling porkies aren't they?

To quote Ronnie Moran - "the pitch and goals are the same size"

Footballers nowadays may be fitter with their excellent diets and training regimes as opposed to steak dinners and chippys, 40 smokes a day and 20 pints a week where the idea of training was running up and down the sand hills on Formby beach. The pitches may be better, with undersoil heating and draining systems, carpet like grass as opposed to the muddy bog fields they used to pass off as a football pitch. The art of tackling may be all but dead unlike yesteryear when you had Ron Harris or Billy Bremner kicking chunks out of you. Travelling might be easier because you get to almost destination you want within a day rather than spending four or five days to get to Scotland and back.

But ultimately football is still 11 men against 11 men (though in some cases I use the word men loosely) where the aim of the game is to outscore your opponent.

And we don't get that by winning the League? Oops my mistake.

That's not necessarily true. Arsenal have been in the European Cup every year since Wenger has been then, I'd say the squad he inherited is better than this one. Celtic are in the European Cup every year and their squad is nowhere near as good as it was back in the early 2000s.

In fact I'd say our 2001 treble winning squad (at a time when us as a club hadn't been in Europe's premier competition since the Heysel disaster in 85) was better than the side that went on to the final in 2007 European Cup final despite that team being in the Champions League 5 out of the 6 seasons in between.

Being in the Champions League regularly doesn't guarantee strengthening the squad.

So what?

Spending huge amounts of money doesn't mean jack sh*t if you buy the wrong players. And we had to compete with those clubs last season, but as you say, we should of won the League.

Well then they can f**k off.

You play for Liverpool Football Club because it's the biggest club in the world not because we happen to be one of thirty-two teams in the European Cup. If a player didn't wanna come here last year when we weren't in the Champions League, then I don't want him here period.

And winning the League isn't in the top four? Oops another mistake on my part.

I'm one of them.

I like to see my club win things. Don't ever remember jumping up and down with a fourth place finish. Those open top bus parades with a fourth place finish are something special though aren't they?

One of those then. Last post replying to you.

Well good.

As I've already said, if they don't wanna be here without Champions League football then they can f**k off. (oh and didn't Sanchez tell us to piss off this summer when we're in the Champions League?)

Just to remind you though, we signed Suarez (arguably the world's greatest player) without Champions League football.

Think I may of said it to you before but go hibernate then cos obviously the next couple of years are complete write offs. Even the Cups don't matter.

We finished 7th in 2012-13.

You said yourself you thought we'd win the League in 2013-14.

Now you're having a go at me for thinking that way. And it's me who's the divvy?

And what? Regular Champions League football brought us Andriy Voronin.

I think you're wrong.

Brilliant posting Billy, 
There is not one point that cannot be argued with,
If there was a template out there to describe what is expected of a true Liverpool fan,  well I'd like to see it,
Your the epitome of what a Liverpool should be, I doff my hat Sir, I love Liverpool fc with all my heart but I'm happy to admit that although as passionate as most I won't ever reach the level of passion and belief that you have, total respect.

I think a lot of posters/supporters should take a page from your book mate if I'm honest and start believing in their team more, maybe then our support will get back to somewhere near how it used to be.

YNWA

Not that I disagree with you but bear in mind other teams have their problems too which is our only saving grace right now. Whether we finish in a top four place is largely out of our hands and down to how adversely those problems our rivals have effect them.
Looking at the fixtures, hopefully he's back for the Chelsea game.

We need to stay in contention until January and then do then what we should have done in the Summer as our top priority - sign a bloody goal scorer.

The troubling thing is though, if we don't finish in the top 4, baring some economic collapse at the rich teams, can't see us ever getting back in again.

Perfect summary 5. 

+ 1


We are already 9 points off the top place ...   with only 21 points played for so far.

Perfect summary 5. 

+ 1


We are already 9 points off the top place ...   with only 21 points played for so far.

I'm not worried about top place at this stage. Secure a top four place first, then worry about how far we can go.