The Top 4. Can we get there?

Why is everybody crying in here?

Because people are struggling to see where the next 3 points will come from which is understandable. After the Spurs game we were expected to kick on, we lost to Villa. After beating WBA and QPR we were expected once again to kick on, yet we haven't won a game since.

We've dropped too many points when we all thought we'd finally pick up our game, not surprising at all that people are getting worried.

Spot on.

Top four is going to be a huge ask.  If we had started to show signs of improvement after 12 games I would have been hopeful but I'd argue our last 6 games have been worse than the opening 6.

Yep, we're going backwards and confidence looks completely shot. The biggest worry for me is the lack of any green shoots. There isn't anything to suggest we will get any better is there, it's just more of the same, stagnant going forward, hopeless defensively, same old players getting the shirt regardless of their form. I am sure the manager could put things right but I don't have any faith in him doing so without the benefit of a transfer window and by the time January arrives I suspect we will still be comfortably in the bottom half of the table. I wish I had something positive to offer but I can't. We will just have to dig in, hope for a miracle and see what happens.

I think the club needs to worry about the next game and forget about top 4 or anything else. One game at a time, the goal is to win the game that's next and worry about the rest when the time comes.

Because people are struggling to see where the next 3 points will come from which is understandable. After the Spurs game we were expected to kick on, we lost to Villa. After beating WBA and QPR we were expected once again to kick on, yet we haven't won a game since.

We've dropped too many points when we all thought we'd finally pick up our game, not surprising at all that people are getting worried.

It's a funny place this forum at times. A month ago there were 2 or 3 posters saying not only will we finish in the top 4 but we'll win the league.

I argued we wouldn't win the league but we would get top four and a few people jumped on my back.

Now the majority are saying we won't finish in the top four and I seem to be the only one who says we will.

Spurs were below us in the league before this weekends footy. They are now 2 points from fourth. So are Spurs out of the running? Because I don't think they are?

The league is that close if we win 3 on the bounce we will go in the top 4. That's easier said than done with the way were playing at the moment, I know that, but our next 3 games are 'should-wins' (I know Palace was too though!).

All we need is a win. If we get it tomorrow it might kick us up the arse. Confidence is shattered at the moment and we don't need moaning fans in F***ing November saying the top 4 is gone when we are only 5 points a drift.

It's a funny place this forum at times. A month ago there were 2 or 3 posters saying not only will we finish in the top 4 but we'll win the league.

I argued we wouldn't win the league but we would get top four and a few people jumped on my back.

Now the majority are saying we won't finish in the top four and I seem to be the only one who says we will.

Spurs were below us in the league before this weekends footy. They are now 2 points from fourth. So are Spurs out of the running? Because I don't think they are?

The league is that close if we win 3 on the bounce we will go in the top 4. That's easier said than done with the way were playing at the moment, I know that, but our next 3 games are 'should-wins' (I know Palace was too though!).

All we need is a win. If we get it tomorrow it might kick us up the arse. Confidence is shattered at the moment and we don't need moaning fans in f**king November saying the top 4 is gone when we are only 5 points a drift.

Have to at least respect your positivity H.

It's a funny place this forum at times. A month ago there were 2 or 3 posters saying not only will we finish in the top 4 but we'll win the league.

I argued we wouldn't win the league but we would get top four and a few people jumped on my back.

Now the majority are saying we won't finish in the top four and I seem to be the only one who says we will.

Spurs were below us in the league before this weekends footy. They are now 2 points from fourth. So are Spurs out of the running? Because I don't think they are?

The league is that close if we win 3 on the bounce we will go in the top 4. That's easier said than done with the way were playing at the moment, I know that, but our next 3 games are 'should-wins' (I know Palace was too though!).

All we need is a win. If we get it tomorrow it might kick us up the arse. Confidence is shattered at the moment and we don't need moaning fans in f**king November saying the top 4 is gone when we are only 5 points a drift.

Ive been flying the positive flag long and hard, but Sundays game seems to have beaten me into submission... where and how are we going to string 2 wins together let alone a top 4 challenge...

ladies and gents I'm lost as to where to go from here... if the players feel 10% of what we all feel then top 4 is out of the question...

I was very confident of top 4 before the Newcastle game. But since then, and the news about Sturridge, I just can't see it.

We have won four league games so far - two of them were extremely lucky wins against Southampton and QPR. We are literally struggling since day one to win any game. The Spurs game being the only game we played very well and won comfortably.

Man Utd have been pretty terrible so far, and Arsenal have had their worse start in 30 years. But they're still ahead of us. With Balotelli, Lambert and Borini, I don't think even our own players think we can make it.

The reason I think we will get in the top four - strangely, is because of how dire we have been so far.

We have been dreadful, there is no getting away from that. Opinions differ because some reds can't seen any improvement for us, but I think we will turn a corner.

We can't get any worse yet we are still just five points from fourth. So in a weird way, I'm quite confident we will finish top four.

It is obvious that Brendan needs to change his current tactics though.

The reason I think we will get in the top four - strangely, is because of how dire we have been so far.

We have been dreadful, there is no getting away from that. Opinions differ because some reds can't seen any improvement for us, but I think we will turn a corner.

We can't get any worse yet we are still just five points from fourth. So in a weird way, I'm quite confident we will finish top four.

It is obvious that Brendan needs to change his current tactics though.

I had your confidence a few weeks ago....but sadly as someone else mentioned, it's been beaten out of me. I just don't see any positive signs in the way we play. It's not like we are getting bad breaks, unlucky bounces or are losing games to bad calls. We are losing because we just flat out suck.

You can change your luck pretty easy....it's a lot harder to change your identity and right now ours is of a team that doesn't keep possession, doesn't know how to score and doesn't defend.

I had your confidence a few weeks ago....but sadly as someone else mentioned, it's been beaten out of me. I just don't see any positive signs in the way we play. It's not like we are getting bad breaks, unlucky bounces or are losing games to bad calls. We are losing because we just flat out suck.

You can change your luck pretty easy....it's a lot harder to change your identity and right now ours is of a team that doesn't keep possession, doesn't know how to score and doesn't defend.

I've just said in the Palace thread that our team on paper should have beaten them comfortably regardless of where Steven Gerrard was playing or who was leading the line for us.

The vast majority, if not every red in the world, doesn't agree with Brendans current tactics but I'd still expect every Liverpool player to give it their all once they are selected and given a role to play for us. Once Brendan picks that team then that's it. And the team he chose on Sunday was good enough to get 3 points.

You can't blame Brendan for the lack of effort from Johnson for example. Yes, we can blame him for picking him every week, but once he does Johnson should act like a professional and try his best.

You can't blame Brendan for Mignolet kicking the ball out of play.

You can't blame Brendan for Skrtel putting his arms all over their forwards like he does every week and then Palace scoring a peach of a free kick. I'm 99.9% certain Brendan would have showed him video after video of him doing it in our box and telling him to cut it out.

On paper, we should have gotten 3 points comfortably. The players who played on Sunday should be ashamed of themselves.

I've just said in the Palace thread that our team on paper should have beaten them comfortably regardless of where Steven Gerrard was playing or who was leading the line for us.

The vast majority, if not every red in the world, doesn't agree with Brendans current tactics but I'd still expect every Liverpool player to give it their all once they are selected and given a role to play for us. Once Brendan picks that team then that's it. And the team he chose on Sunday was good enough to get 3 points.

You can't blame Brendan for the lack of effort from Johnson for example. Yes, we can blame him for picking him every week, but once he does Johnson should act like a professional and try his best.

You can't blame Brendan for Mignolet kicking the ball out of play.

You can't blame Brendan for Skrtel putting his arms all over their forwards like he does every week and then Palace scoring a peach of a free kick. I'm 99.9% certain Brendan would have showed him video after video of him doing it in our box and telling him to cut it out.

On paper, we should have gotten 3 points comfortably. The players who played on Sunday should be ashamed of themselves.

Everything looks great on paper, but that isn't where the game is played.

Truth is it is Brendan's fault - he's the manager, he picks the team, he buys the players (especially in the case of that F***ing joke in goal) and he needs to find the answers.

You can't blame Brendan for the lack of effort from Johnson for example. Yes, we can blame him for picking him every week, but once he does Johnson should act like a professional and try his best.

Maybe that was his best...and Brendan still picked him.

You can't blame Brendan for Mignolet kicking the ball out of play.

He picked him.

You can't blame Brendan for Skrtel putting his arms all over their forwards like he does every week and then Palace scoring a peach of a free kick.

He picked him

On paper, we should have gotten 3 points comfortably. The players who played on Sunday should be ashamed of themselves.

We need to find a paper pitch then because on the green stuff.....we can't ever find a way to get 3 points.

The players who played on Sunday should be ashamed of themselves.

Manager has to share equal shame for picking the same players every week that don't give enough.

Had an interesting debate in work today about LFC in general but someone asked has the fact that we came within a whisker of winning the league making this season's debacle all the worse. I said IF we had have held on last year I'd still have been ecstatic to this day and I'd be cutting them a bit more slack (not that they'd really deserve it this season).
OK I might be being a bit mard here but I think about going so close to our first title in 24 years on a daily basis and it get's me down. Has this affected the mood within the club and the confidence of BR and the players that were left from last season. I was massively proud of how we played last season but it still doesn't half hurt I just pray we can kick on.

Manager has to share equal shame for picking the same players every week that don't give enough.

You see there are two sides to that - we need consistency in the team selection. We havent had a settled back four that played 5 games in a row - I think. Thats shocking. Same thing happened to the scum under Moyes that he consistently changed the back 4.

Then you have to deal with underperformers and when to give them a stint out so they can get their head straight.

I think the issue we have is the MASS amount of underperformers, and the lack of talent to replace them.
Players that deservedly should be dropped and their counterparts in that position;
Gerrard - Lucas, Can
Sterling - ?
Balo - Lambert, Borini
Lovren - Sakho
Skrtel - Toure
Johnson - Manquillo


Barring Manquilo and Can, the rest have been under the radar for under performing at some stage or another some had the lynch mob after them too..

We have short memories.

I've just said in the Palace thread that our team on paper should have beaten them comfortably regardless of where Steven Gerrard was playing or who was leading the line for us.

The vast majority, if not every red in the world, doesn't agree with Brendans current tactics but I'd still expect every Liverpool player to give it their all once they are selected and given a role to play for us. Once Brendan picks that team then that's it. And the team he chose on Sunday was good enough to get 3 points.

You can't blame Brendan for the lack of effort from Johnson for example. Yes, we can blame him for picking him every week, but once he does Johnson should act like a professional and try his best.

You can't blame Brendan for Mignolet kicking the ball out of play.

You can't blame Brendan for Skrtel putting his arms all over their forwards like he does every week and then Palace scoring a peach of a free kick. I'm 99.9% certain Brendan would have showed him video after video of him doing it in our box and telling him to cut it out.

On paper, we should have gotten 3 points comfortably. The players who played on Sunday should be ashamed of themselves.

Great, so we pay him £100000 every week apparently, and he bears no blame!
Ultimately the responsibility lies with him, that's what being a manager is all about, be it football or any other job! The players need to take their share of blame, but they don't pick the team or tactics.
Sorry, but get really p* ssed off when people absolve Brendan from any blame. Therein lies the Championship!

Great, so we pay him £100000 every week apparently, and he bears no blame!
Ultimately the responsibility lies with him, that's what being a manager is all about, be it football or any other job! The players need to take their share of blame, but they don't pick the team or tactics.
Sorry, but get really p* ssed off when people absolve Brendan from any blame. Therein lies the Championship!

The man himself has openly taken all the blame.... He has to be attributed with a fair share mate BUT he is only 1 man and cant play the game for these players. 60/40 players underperforming to BR underperforming. Either way it aint good.

The man himself has openly taken all the blame.... He has to be attributed with a fair share mate BUT he is only 1 man and cant play the game for these players. 60/40 players underperforming to BR underperforming. Either way it aint good.

No it ain't good, and yes you're right he can't play the game for the players, but he sure as hell can put out a team in their best positions, he can play players who are on form and he can make subs that actually influence the game.
That is what he is paid to do, if he bears no responsibility and it is purely down to the players on the pitch, let's dispense with a manager completely and let the players take full responsibility for everything!
As for taking all the blame, don't really recall that happening every week!
I hope he turns it around, I truly do, Because that will be good for my Club, but I am not going to hold my breath!
If even a quarter of the rumours flying around the City are correct, we are in BIG  trouble!

4th place, as was reported on a podcast I listen to, has it's lowest points tally at this stage of the season since 3pts for a win came in.  It's not beyond us yet, unless we fail to pull out of this malaise.

no we wont get top 4, and watch scum buy more world class players, chelsea and man city  buy big, maybe young players we have come good we be up least  fighting for top 4 or leagues

If even a quarter of the rumours flying around the City are correct, we are in BIG  trouble!

Pray tell

4th place, as was reported on a podcast I listen to, has it's lowest points tally at this stage of the season since 3pts for a win came in.  It's not beyond us yet, unless we fail to pull out of this malaise.

Interesting. So one can assume that the max 7loss avg for 4th place position is more like 8 or 9 this season. Can we go the rest of the season with only 2/3 more losses? - Tis very unlikely. No I think 4th is gone.

Pray tell

Sorry, won't reveal rumours, but anyone living in the City will have heard most of them. Refuse to give credence to rumours, which is why I said if only a quarter are true we are in trouble!