Are we a selling club?

First of all I just got banned of RAWK just for asking the same question like you did OP
It's seems nowadays if you don't like what you reading just get rid of him .
Back to subject i think we are a selling club because we don't have a sugar daddy who throws millions , personally I don't agree with our owners policy but I have to accept it as I'm supporting this club , when you have limited founds and you want to rival city and chelsea and even utd and arsenal you have to spend big and unfortunately we can't unless if we sell , for so many years we have been selling to buy and this year is no different . I do believe if we didn't sell sell Suarez we wouldn't have bought Moreno and lovren and markovic .
Players nowadays wants consistency and win trophies achieve things and I can't see top players willing to wait for us so that's why we go for young players polish them and sell them and buy young players again .

There is the complete Directors Cut version where he wipes his arse as well .

Hopefully before his face.

I think its overwhelmingly clear that we are a selling club these days.

I'd use various measures for this:-

1)What are the replacements?
Younger and often inexperienced.
lower transfer fee
lower wages - often massively so.
often HUGELY lower ability either short term or long term

2)What are the reasons for the sales?
Well on the face of it we have a lot of pr guff.
But the reality is clear.

Soccernomics/Moneyball revolves around buy low- develop- and sell high.
It claims to talk the emotions out of squads. But in truth, it takes the emotion and the passion out of the whole thing.

Wage disputes even broken agreements by the board have been reasons for sales.
The board refusing to show the requisite ambition have been partial reasons.
The board have refused to bring in quality, which alienates fans.
The board have refused to show backing to certain players and stood by/or even orchestrated character assassinations to fulfill their objectives.
The board have attempted or even, in practice succeeded in forcing certain players out. And I mean players who love/loved the club and really wanted to stay, even if they were being treated like sh*t. And some of them have held back from telling the full truth, out of regard for the fans, knowing how much the truth could heighten our problems even more.

You can see how Nando just looked GUTTED to have signed for Chelsea. And Masch was very open - dedicated the Barca CL win over the Mancs to the Liverpool fans. Masch also said how the Yanks never did enought to keep players or show any ambition. Agger and Reina and Mereiles made their views pretty clear too.


Who is my authority for all this?
Just ask our ex players, sources close to the club like TonEvans and Tony Barrett and even the current board.

And it isnt just Barca and Real who "aren't feeder clubs". Man C and Chelsea aren't. Bayern aren't. Manc Utd only really did it with Ronaldo... when the disease that is the Glazers were at their most destructive. Even smaller clubs do what they can to keep their favourite sons. And the very WORST part is, we don't even NEED to sell!!!

The selling club aspect is one of the most repulsive aspects of our modern"brand". To me, we are the Pierre Cardin of modern football. Once an illustrious name or marque. Now Pierre Cardin is synonymous with cheap sh*te. I mean the counterfeit Cardin is better quality than the "genuine"! Thats what we've done. Gone from top name, to "third or fourth tier brand" - from Harrods to Quicksave. Yet the ticket prices are still like Harrods prices. (Compare that to Real Madrid and Barcelona!!!)

It might have the badge. It might have the colours. Its still got some of the old faces. Still plays at Anfield.
But its not really Liverpool "Football Club" is it?

So we're a selling club because we sold Suarez to Barca when he begged to leave and for triple what we paid for him. And for selling Torres to the Chavs for ridiculous money when he was gone sh*te. They're the only two high profile sales I can think of under the current ownership. But if we're a selling club then aren't the Scum (Ronaldo), Arsenal (Fabregas), Athletico (Costa)... or every other club in the world aside from Barca, Real, and maybe Bayern?

The rest of its been addressed above.
But just taking Luis alone, 75m player for a 16m player?
If that isn't the EPITOMY of selling club, what is?

Reina, Johnson, Skrtel(to a lesser extent), Agger, Arbeloa, Alonso, Masch, Torres, Mereiles, Suarez.
Managers - Rafa and Kenny.
Virtually a whole team sold, or the subject of attempts to force the player out. All pretty much world class.

What have we had in?
Mignolet, Konchesky, Allen, Moreno, Manquillo, Henderson, Balotelli, Lallana, Markovic, Sakho, Lovren, Poulsen, Aquilani, Sturridge, (Suarez) etc etc
Managers - Hodgson and Rodgers.

Some good players in the replacements. But NONE of them of the callibre of what we lost.
Why don't we look for and SIGN top quality? Because the Americans don't want to!
Break the fans expectation, break their spirit, slash wages, trade players for profit, and take the cash to the bank!
One bullshitter after the other.
Meet the new cu*ts, just like the old cu*ts!

Reina, Johnson, Skrtel(to a lesser extent), Agger, Arbeloa, Alonso, Masch, Torres, Mereiles, Suarez.
Managers - Rafa and Kenny.
Virtually a whole team sold, or the subject of attempts to force the player out. All pretty much world class.

You're having a laugh mate. At the time of selling there are only three world class players in that list.

Hopefully before his face.

Yo Racer !


Well yes and no.....

He rubs his face  then rubs his arse then ........................ ....

Watch it   

http://youtu.be/aav46Lek0Rs

Yo Racer !


Well yes and no.....

He rubs his face  then rubs his arse then ........................ ....

Watch it   

http://youtu.be/aav46Lek0Rs

Ah yes, a little cheeky sniff at the end.

You're having a laugh mate. At the time of selling there are only three world class players in that list.

They've been trying to force Agger out for a long time, and Reina. Both were considered wclass in previous times. Reina still is.
Arbeloa wasn't world class, but very very good.
Mereiles not world class, but cheating him demonstrated what a selling club we were.
When Johnson was (our league's best rback, albeit one who leaves gaps), they were busy trying to force him out.
Skrel was in fantastic form when they tried to sell him and one of the best defenders around.

Masch, Alonso, Suarez, Torres were all indisputably world class. Torres had been fu**ed up with injuries but was the 50m spent on a comparable replacement? Nope, a ponytailed tw*t on1/3rd of the wages who told the press he was "gutted" at a Liverpool move.

A key aspect is, what were the replacements? Cheap, low waged, NOT top quality in nearly all cases.
So we are clearly a selling club. Buying clubs improve. Selling clubs deteriorate on the pitch in the pursuit of greedy £££ aims.

They've been trying to force Agger out for a long time, and Reina. Both were considered wclass in previous times. Reina still is.
Arbeloa wasn't world class, but very very good.
Mereiles not world class, but cheating him demonstrated what a selling club we were.
When Johnson was (our league's best rback, albeit one who leaves gaps), they were busy trying to force him out.
Skrel was in fantastic form when they tried to sell him and one of the best defenders around.

Masch, Alonso, Suarez, Torres were all indisputably world class. Torres had been fu**ed up with injuries but was the 50m spent on a comparable replacement? Nope, a ponytailed tw*t on1/3rd of the wages who told the press he was "gutted" at a Liverpool move.

A key aspect is, what were the replacements? Cheap, low waged, NOT top quality in nearly all cases.
So we are clearly a selling club. Buying clubs improve. Selling clubs deteriorate on the pitch in the pursuit of greedy £££ aims.

But we finished 2nd in the league last season within a whisker of winning it playing the best football in England. The highest we have finished since we had Alonso, Masch, Torres, and Arbaloa. So how have we deteriorated on the pitch from selling said players?

But we finished 2nd in the league last season within a whisker of winning it playing the best football in England. The highest we have finished since we had Alonso, Masch, Torres, and Arbaloa. So how have we deteriorated on the pitch from selling said players?

WTF sort of answer is that?

We finished 2nd with Rafa, sold our best players and were utter w*nk for years and years.
We sold a megastar who carried an ordinary team this Summer, and we're now UTTER w*nk AGAIN!

And you can also  argue we only got 2nd because we didn't have any cups to play for.

18months ago, the Yanks were sniffing round for a buyer for the ONE player who became a crown jewel.
Arsenal made a bid and Luis himself said "its nice to know I'm still wanted by someone". What would have happened if we sold Luis last Summer? Yes, we'd be sh*t like we are this season!

Who win trophies? Who get big fanbases? The Evertons and Villas with their selling club, no mark antics? The asset stripping scumbag clubs? Or the aristocrats like we USED TO BE? The teams that invest the fans hard earned money?

Every year, we lose new fans. Every year, we will fall deeper into mediocrity unless someone stops this "death by a thousand cuts". Did we get our global fanbase because we sold Souness, Rush, Hansen, Lawro and Dalglish in 1982 and 1983. No, we kept these players, became and remained a great club.

Selling clubs= also rans = mediocrity, stagnation and downward spirals.
Top prices for also ran performance = ripping off the fans.

But then the brand isnt run for customers like us. Its customers like Real Madrid, le Bron James and Dracula LLP's hedge fund.

There are only 2 or 3 teams in the world who ultimately are not selling clubs. The best players for Real and Barca are never in threat of leaving were as the best players at any other club are always under threat from a bid by one of those two. The sad reality is that if Real and or Barca come after a player they will ultimately get them no matter who it is or who they play for

Saying we sold Suarez for £75m makes us a selling club is like saying the same of United because they sold Ronaldo for £80m. Those are stupid good transfer fees to receive.

Reina is world class? Currently?



Wow, I've read some whoppers on here but that takes the cake.

There are only 2 or 3 teams in the world who ultimately are not selling clubs. The best players for Real and Barca are never in threat of leaving were as the best players at any other club are always under threat from a bid by one of those two. The sad reality is that if Real and or Barca come after a player they will ultimately get them no matter who it is or who they play for

Why do young think that is though mate?  Is it because of the money, the big stadiums, or just guaranteed champions league?
We are just as famous all over the world as those two,  we should be able to attract big players too.

Reina is world class? Currently?

Maybe not FL but he's better than what followed and that's more the point.

If you can look past any preconceived ideas about who wrote what and look instead at what's written, there are some valid points being made. We sell players because of their wages as much as (if not more) than their ability. Similarly; when we buy players, cost is the primary and guiding factor.

Our transfer 'policy' is based on the principle that we pay little in the hope that, when we sell, [and we will sell, make no mistake] - we, at worst, lose little and at best, coin it then... start all over a - F***ing - gain. 

Maybe not FL but he's better than what followed and that's more the point.

If you can look past any preconceived ideas about who wrote what and look instead at what's written, there are some valid points being made. We sell players because of their wages as much as (if not more) than their ability. Similarly; when we buy players, cost is the primary and guiding factor.

Our transfer 'policy' is based on the principle that we pay little in the hope that, when we sell, [and we will sell, make no mistake] - we, at worst, lose little and at best, coin it then... start all over a - f**king - gain. 

Reina hasn't been world class for quite some time (and I'm a huge fan of the man), but  he was on world class wages. So I can't really fault the club for removing his wages from the books IF he's not going to be an integral part of Brendan's plans (which he wasn't).

The wage stripping in my mind is a convenient conspiracy theory to be brought out when things start to go south on the pitch. Last season there was neither hyde nor hair of all of this wage stripping talk as Sturridge and Suarez were banging in goals left and right and we were destroying teams. Now we've hit a rough patch and everyone has to find a seat on the closest band wagon. If we are truly selling players purely because their wages are too high then I would be appalled.  For two reasons I would be appalled, one because it's a bad policy that has nothing to do with the end product on the field and two because it would mean that whoever is responsible for this idea sucks at implementing it as one of the highest wage earners (as I understand it) in Glen Johnson is still around collecting checks while being constantly injured or ineffective.

Reina hasn't been world class for quite some time (and I'm a huge fan of the man), but  he was on world class wages. So I can't really fault the club for removing his wages from the books IF he's not going to be an integral part of Brendan's plans (which he wasn't).

The wage stripping in my mind is a convenient conspiracy theory to be brought out when things start to go south on the pitch. Last season there was neither hyde nor hair of all of this wage stripping talk as Sturridge and Suarez were banging in goals left and right and we were destroying teams. Now we've hit a rough patch and everyone has to find a seat on the closest band wagon. If we are truly selling players purely because their wages are too high then I would be appalled.  For two reasons I would be appalled, one because it's a bad policy that has nothing to do with the end product on the field and two because it would mean that whoever is responsible for this idea sucks at implementing it as one of the highest wage earners (as I understand it) in Glen Johnson is still around collecting checks while being constantly injured or ineffective.

If you don't believe we sell or sign players because of wages, fair enough; however I still believe what Brendan said so I'll agree to disagree on that mate.

As for collecting wages while injured or ineffectual? Yeah...I can buy that - be it one Glen Johnson or any of these 'false economies' - Allen, Assaidi, Alberto, Borini...

"Young" and "with potential" = code for cheap and easy paid.

On the subject of "bad policy that has nothing to do with the end product on the field" -  well... sometimes the penny has a long way to drop but the 'proof of the pudding' is in how many signings are better than those they replace on the first XI... if they even make it that far.

Have any of the player(s), signed to replace even Downing been any more effectual or just cheaper?  Like I say - I'll happily agree to disagree.

One further point - as you will be well aware FL: I have held this view for a long time now: long before last season and long before the dip-sh*t, superfans appeared on the all is rosy 'wagon, last season.

Reina hasn't been world class for quite some time (and I'm a huge fan of the man), but  he was on world class wages. So I can't really fault the club for removing his wages from the books IF he's not going to be an integral part of Brendan's plans (which he wasn't).

The wage stripping in my mind is a convenient conspiracy theory to be brought out when things start to go south on the pitch. Last season there was neither hyde nor hair of all of this wage stripping talk as Sturridge and Suarez were banging in goals left and right and we were destroying teams. Now we've hit a rough patch and everyone has to find a seat on the closest band wagon. If we are truly selling players purely because their wages are too high then I would be appalled.  For two reasons I would be appalled, one because it's a bad policy that has nothing to do with the end product on the field and two because it would mean that whoever is responsible for this idea sucks at implementing it as one of the highest wage earners (as I understand it) in Glen Johnson is still around collecting checks while being constantly injured or ineffective.

The only certain trend we have is the part I highlighted in bold.

Good post BTW.

What exactly is a 'selling club'? Do we sell good players to other top teams? Yes we do but so do most other teams. Do we sell our top players to other Premiership clubs? That's a mixed one because we sold Torres to Chelsea but refused to sell Suarez to Arsenal. It could be argued, however, that FSG saw the writing was on the wall for Torres in terms of his performances and the dip his career was taking and had the foresight to grab what they could for him while they could. Similarly it could be argued that they saw that after another Suarez bite, that he was damaging Liverpool FC as a brand but any delay in transferring him would result in his value dropping significantly. Both would be considered good business practice. So is it a bad thing that we sold two of our players to other top teams and if not, what does it matter if we're a 'selling club' or not?

If you don't believe we sell or sign players because of wages, fair enough; however I still believe what Brendan said so I'll agree to disagree on that mate.

As for collecting wages while injured or ineffectual? Yeah...I can buy that - be it one Glen Johnson or any of these 'false economies' - Allen, Assaidi, Alberto, Borini...

"Young" and "with potential" = code for cheap and easy paid.

On the subject of "bad policy that has nothing to do with the end product on the field" -  well... sometimes the penny has a long way to drop but the 'proof of the pudding' is in how many signings are better than those they replace on the first XI... if they even make it that far.

Have any of the player(s), signed to replace even Downing been any more effectual or just cheaper?  Like I say - I'll happily agree to disagree.

One further point - as you will be well aware FL: I have held this view for a long time now: long before last season and long before the dip-sh*t, superfans appeared on the all is rosy 'wagon, last season.

I'm not discounting the idea that we at some points have looked to make a tidy profit on a player that is either deemed surplus (Reina, Agger) already or one that has expressed a strong desire to leave (Torres, Suarez).

I'm just saying I don't think the problem is as rampant as some (not you specifically) make it out to be.

I'm not discounting the idea that we at some points have looked to make a tidy profit on a player that is either deemed surplus (Reina, Agger) already or one that has expressed a strong desire to leave (Torres, Suarez).

I'm just saying I don't think the problem is as rampant as some (not you specifically) make it out to be.

Reina hasn't been world class for quite some time (and I'm a huge fan of the man), but  he was on world class wages. So I can't really fault the club for removing his wages from the books IF he's not going to be an integral part of Brendan's plans (which he wasn't).

The wage stripping in my mind is a convenient conspiracy theory to be brought out when things start to go south on the pitch. Last season there was neither hyde nor hair of all of this wage stripping talk as Sturridge and Suarez were banging in goals left and right and we were destroying teams. Now we've hit a rough patch and everyone has to find a seat on the closest band wagon. If we are truly selling players purely because their wages are too high then I would be appalled.  For two reasons I would be appalled, one because it's a bad policy that has nothing to do with the end product on the field and two because it would mean that whoever is responsible for this idea sucks at implementing it as one of the highest wage earners (as I understand it) in Glen Johnson is still around collecting checks while being constantly injured or ineffective.

I think it's pretty obvious that lowering the wage bill was an immediate priority for FSG. Even their biggest supporters would admit that.
If certain players aren't justifying their high wages, then fair enough, but if it means we can't attract top players because we won't pay their wages ( which seems to be the case,  as we "inquire" about certain players,  then don't sign them), then that's bad for us in the field.

I'm just saying I don't think the problem is as rampant as some (not you specifically) make it out to be.

I'm not sure "rampant" is the right adjective mate [it's such an emotive word] but it certainly exists and runs to the very core of company 'policy'.

All the evidence is there FL; from Brendan's quotes on "money men" and "financial decisions", to John W's missive to the masses - the PR exercise where he boasted about bringing in "young but significantly talented starters Allen, Sahin and Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future - Yesil and Assaidi".

The 'policy' and I use the word "policy" loosely, of replacing high wage earners with cheaper 'cuts' would be fine if the 'replacements' weren't picked, primarily, because they were easy paid but because they were, indeed better.

In my opinion, the scatter gun approach, of buying lots of cheap but "young with potential", although appealing to the romantic notion of producing stars, is fraught with difficulties.

Let's look at a few of the players mentioned ['good' and 'bad'] - Reina: we saved a fortune in wages on a player who, by some accounts, was "in decline" but spent £9m on young potential; how much better off are we? Agger: a big wage earner who "didn't play enough because of injury" - spent £18m on Sakho & £20m on Lovren "young", "potential" and on less wages: improvements? Heck... lets' even look at Downing: "utter sh*te" by all accounts and a high wage earner - Aspas £7m, Assaidi £3m and Borini(?) £12m; nuff said?

The thing is - we were [are] a team on the up. We had a great spring board to not only build on but to attract players who could help us right now, not next year or the year after but right now. Brendan and the lads were excellent last season. How do you add to what they achieved? "First team improvers" maybe and players who are better right now not cheap but "young with potential", in my opinion, of course.

Buy cheap and hope that they can be moved on for a tidy profit (or a small loss) might be good business but the Suarez's and Sterling's (when that happens) of this world aren't going to be replaced by cheap but young with potential; certainly not in the short term. Every time we do that we are taking one step forward and two back.

I have no problems with any of the lads we have signed this summer - as individuals they're good in their own right but [in my opinion] right here and now there's only one (Adam) who is a genuine "first team improver". The rest are, at best (right now), on a par with what we already had.
 

If certain players aren't justifying their high wages, then fair enough, but if it means we can't attract top players because we won't pay their wages ( which seems to be the case,  as we "inquire" about certain players,  then don't sign them), then that's bad for us in the field.

Exactly O_R... and a myriad of excuses won't hide that. It's false economy mate; certainly as far as the actual football side of things go.