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      What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?

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      AmericanPlant
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      What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Oct 03, 2014 06:16:18 pm
      Obviously the current "owners" (I don't like the phrase) so I usually call it "the board" have mixed popularity amongst forum members, and indeed amongst general supporters of different types.

      Probably the closest there's been to outright revolt against them was the sacking of King Kenny or the "open letter to the fans" by Henry after a Summer transfer window fiasco.

      I'd made up my mind on day one in regards the suitability or otherwise of NESV or Fenway as they now like to be called.
      I began using my tickets again upon their arrival, but wouldn't buy any merchandise or corporate stuff, on account of the fact that I didn't want to condone what I felt was a distinctly underwhelming tone to custodianship.

      A low pt was the sale of Torres and I gave my tickets away for a while. And again, when we had some mediocre transfer windows. I only got back into the swing of it when it emerged that Luis was to us what Maradona had been to Napoli.
      I could partly block out my resentment when I saw who was, IMO, our greatest ever player, carrying us to new heights for our recent history. Remembering being on the Kop and watching Dalglish, Rush, Barnes, Fowler, Owen etc, Luis really was a joy to watch, even if certain other aspects of being a modern supporter disappointed me.

      By many measures, we've actually performed WORSE on the pitch under Fenway than under Hicks and Gilette. But Fenway aren't as universally despised as the former two. Atleast not yet..

      The differences are well rehearsed and I don't want to go over them again. Basically it was an issue of broken promises, debt on the club, stadium delays BUT ALSO a terrible disintegration of our on pitch performance,  a tawdry overcharging of fans and inappropriate over commercialisation, with the previous lot. With both sets of owners, there has been an issue of underinvestment being discussed.

      Under the current ones, we also have overcharging/high prices, very in your face ethos of "the brand" (as opposed to "the Liverpool Way and traditions") and ALSO a deterioration of the team. Thats a deterioration from last season. And in overall terms, a deterioration from the early/mid Rafa years.

      So my question is..
      When could/would you consider some sort of protest against the direction the club is going in?
      Would you/have you considered giving your season ticket to someone else (informally, or even sending it back to L4)?
      Or refusing to buy merchandise/corporate tickets/drinks or things like that?
      Would you consider joining SOS, or being part of protests in/outside the ground?

      What could/would cause this for you? A rapid deterioration in on field performance over a length of time?
      Higher ticket prices? Further sales of star players? More abolition of traditions? Drab performances, even if we win?
      Anything else?

      Me personally, I've basically boycotted merchandise for a long time. And also corporate stuff a fair bit. I'm not far off giving my tickets to other fans, informally until January atleast. To me, its not about how we do, but about how we *try*.
      I've been a diehard over many really sh*t years, such as some of the Souness and Evans years, but things were different to what I've seen since the Moores era finished.

      I always support the players, and the institution. But I consider them to be very different to the commercial entity and its controllers. Infact, I consider the two to be in direct competition sometimes. Sonetimes I think supporting a corporate entity can be harmful to an Institution. And that was illustrated in the protests vs G&H.
      Swab
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #1: Oct 03, 2014 06:34:16 pm
      I wouldn't join anything that involved SOS.

      Bunch of self righteous arseholes who think they speak for every LFC fan, but in reality follow only their own agenda, and when someone doesn't agree with it, shouts them down.
      So probably perfect for RAWK.
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #2: Oct 03, 2014 06:56:05 pm
      So basically AP you will do whatever you can to sabotage our chances but if we are successful you'll put all that to one side and party like it had anything to do with you?
      Scally21
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #3: Oct 03, 2014 07:17:13 pm
      I don't about protesting but what I do find despicable is that despite each club receiving an extra £14m this year from domestic broadcast rights, that money could have and should have been used to offset ticket prices. We've not even had the courtesy of having prices frozen a la Spur(iou)s, Swansea and WBA.

      No wonder we're so confident in beating any charges being brought against us by UEFA'S FFP.

      J Henry needs to be slapped about silly and told in no uncertain terms that the same logic/business model being used for his beloved Red Sox cannot be applied to 'soccer' - it really is a different ball game :f_tongueincheek:
      Class
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #4: Oct 06, 2014 09:29:34 am

      J Henry needs to be slapped about silly and told in no uncertain terms that the same logic/business model being used for his beloved Red Sox cannot be applied to 'soccer' - it really is a different ball game :f_tongueincheek:
       

      And that's where someone like Ian Ayre should have come in. He's from the city he's supposedly a lifelong Red he should have been the one to tell them that the whole "Moneyball"  thing isn't going to work in football. We don't have 162 matches a season for players to gel.
       
      I don't think I'd ever start or join a protest against FSG because overall they've done an OK job. Do I think we could have gotten better "owners"? Yes. Do I think we could have gotten worse guys in charge? Definitely. I guess it's become a "better the devil you know" kind of situation. with them.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #5: Oct 06, 2014 01:58:16 pm
      Nothing.
      xBooniex
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #6: Oct 06, 2014 03:25:21 pm
      I don't have a problem with our owners.

      They have done a few things I'm not happy about for instance the way they sacked KK and then refused to interview Rafa but on the whole the don't seem a bad bunch.

      Linda visiting more often would be nice :)
      Roddenberry
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #7: Oct 06, 2014 03:53:43 pm

      Linda visiting more often would be nice :)

      You or Anfield?
      xBooniex
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #8: Oct 06, 2014 04:01:29 pm
      Both. I don't mind sharing  :P
      DaktionLFC
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #9: Oct 07, 2014 05:11:56 am
      I seriously cannot understand the hate towards the owners.  they have shown since their arrival time and time again they want what is best for the club and that is to make us grow while being fiscally sound.  lets talk about some of the 'issues' and why I think they did what they did

      - sack Kenny.   they wanted a different direction to the club.  KK is a legend, and obviously the owners respect him because he is still with us.  KK holds no hard feelings... why do fans?

      - holding onto suarez last year and selling him this year.   imo holding onto suarez last year 100% won me over as a fan of FSG.  they were strong when we needed them to be while they sat back and let their team call the shots during the year. also they were right to sell suarez even though it hurts us now.  the guy is a lunatic and really is dragging our name in the mud. I really loved Suarez's skill on the pitch but his other side of him is too much.  I want trophies like you all... but I am not willing to sacrifice my integrity for it.  glad to see FSG draw that line

      - anfield expansion. they are getting it done. nuff said. 

      - ayre.... well the guy imo has really shone this past transfer window.  BR had a list he wanted and ian got him most on the list.  not his fault that the on pitch display isn't up to expectations.



      we also have to realize that the prem league under previous management is so different than before.  mancity, Chelsea, manutd all have more money than us to spend.  arsenal has now paid off all its debt and really imo is the model Liverpool is going for.  now wenger has the funds to buy marquee players every window.   if you look at money to spend alone... where do we stand?  5th?  also, I think the top 10ish teams have all improved in quality as well.  the realignment of revenues have shown the 'smaller' clubs are able to do larger transfers now. 

      this is a reasonwhy I think we have the best league in the game.  any team can beat each other on its day.  no result is for sure

      so back on topic.  I don't think FSG has done anything enough to warrant a protest.  plus the whole manutd fans vs glazer issue is such a gong show..i hope we don't follow suit
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #10: Oct 07, 2014 06:41:25 am
      I seriously cannot understand the hate towards the owners.  they have shown since their arrival time and time again they want what is best for the club and that is to make us grow while being fiscally sound.  lets talk about some of the 'issues' and why I think they did what they did

      - sack Kenny.   they wanted a different direction to the club.  KK is a legend, and obviously the owners respect him because he is still with us.  KK holds no hard feelings... why do fans?

      - holding onto suarez last year and selling him this year.   imo holding onto suarez last year 100% won me over as a fan of FSG.  they were strong when we needed them to be while they sat back and let their team call the shots during the year. also they were right to sell suarez even though it hurts us now.  the guy is a lunatic and really is dragging our name in the mud. I really loved Suarez's skill on the pitch but his other side of him is too much.  I want trophies like you all... but I am not willing to sacrifice my integrity for it.  glad to see FSG draw that line

      - anfield expansion. they are getting it done. nuff said. 

      - ayre.... well the guy imo has really shone this past transfer window.  BR had a list he wanted and ian got him most on the list.  not his fault that the on pitch display isn't up to expectations.



      we also have to realize that the prem league under previous management is so different than before.  mancity, Chelsea, manutd all have more money than us to spend.  arsenal has now paid off all its debt and really imo is the model Liverpool is going for.  now wenger has the funds to buy marquee players every window.   if you look at money to spend alone... where do we stand?  5th?  also, I think the top 10ish teams have all improved in quality as well.  the realignment of revenues have shown the 'smaller' clubs are able to do larger transfers now. 

      this is a reasonwhy I think we have the best league in the game.  any team can beat each other on its day.  no result is for sure

      so back on topic.  I don't think FSG has done anything enough to warrant a protest.  plus the whole manutd fans vs glazer issue is such a gong show..i hope we don't follow suit

      I would have to disagree with most of your assessment of the owner.

      I certainly don't agree that "time and time again the owners have shown they want what's best 4th for club"! Transfer window after transfer window ( bar this one) has weakened the squad just to save money.

      You give them credit for keeping Suarez,  then gave them credit for selling him!???? They kept Suarez because Arsenal didn't offer £70 million, that's the only reason. Suarez wanted to go, that's the only good reason for letting him go.

      Sure the stadium is finally getting built up,  but the fans are going to be paying through the nose for it.

      I'm also not sure why fans are happy to accept that FSG won't spend any of their own money.
      crouchinho
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #11: Oct 07, 2014 08:32:30 am
      I would have to disagree with most of your assessment of the owner.

      I certainly don't agree that "time and time again the owners have shown they want what's best 4th for club"! Transfer window after transfer window ( bar this one) has weakened the squad just to save money.

      You give them credit for keeping Suarez,  then gave them credit for selling him!???? They kept Suarez because Arsenal didn't offer £70 million, that's the only reason. Suarez wanted to go, that's the only good reason for letting him go.

      Sure the stadium is finally getting built up,  but the fans are going to be paying through the nose for it.

      I'm also not sure why fans are happy to accept that FSG won't spend any of their own money.

      Because no one was demanding this before they came in. "Self-sustainability" was the key phrase and that's happening, aside from one interest free inter-company loan they have provided to the club to help with running costs.

      So, in turn, i state, "I'm not sure why fans are unhappy to accept FSG won't spend any of their own money."
      MIRO
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #12: Oct 07, 2014 08:49:45 am
      See no reason for this thread.

      We would only bring Scal Qaeda out of the box again .... if they started doing Hicks and Gillett style stuff.

      In my book , with certain individuals guidance (  Broughton etc) ,   FSG saved our club ..... in spite of Parry and Moores lack of competence in selling to the cowboys seven years ago.


      We were in dark days four years ago.
      We should never forget that.
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #13: Oct 07, 2014 09:09:01 am
      if we figure out the owners issue people to go make moronic threads like this about them to gauge public reaction, then i might have a problem with them!!!

      did you know we are just starting a season right now????? what is this october 2010?? the dark days of the h&g era??

      now instead of talking about the owners if they become a problem, we spend time in season imagining what it would take to turn against them :D :D
      waltonl4
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #14: Oct 07, 2014 12:01:12 pm
      the ownership issue relates back to 2007 and still rumbles on today. for me its all about 122 years of history being "owned" by people who neither understand football or even more importantly understand the club.
      But as long as thye look after the finances of the club and support the manager then I couldn't care if I never see them again.
      its probably a subject best left alone.why dig up something that will only end up as a shouting match
      Beerbelly
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #15: Oct 07, 2014 12:56:25 pm
      the ownership issue relates back to 2007 and still rumbles on today. for me its all about 122 years of history being "owned" by people who neither understand football or even more importantly understand the club.
      But as long as thye look after the finances of the club and support the manager then I couldn't care if I never see them again.
      its probably a subject best left alone.why dig up something that will only end up as a shouting match

      The fans own the history.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #16: Oct 07, 2014 03:00:09 pm
      See no reason for this thread.

      We would only bring Scal Qaeda out of the box again .... if they started doing Hicks and Gillett style stuff.

      In my book , with certain individuals guidance (  Broughton etc) ,   FSG saved our club ..... in spite of Parry and Moores lack of competence in selling to the cowboys seven years ago.


      We were in dark days four years ago.
      We should never forget that.

      The problem is AP will never admit that. He harps on like a stuck record about our 'evil' owners, drawing comparisons between them and H&G but conveniently forgets to mention the state of the club when they took over and what they'd had to do just to get us running like a 'normal' club. Never praises them for the good things they did, never a positive word, always negativity. Our owners aren't perfect but they're far from the picture he likes to paint.
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #17: Oct 07, 2014 04:01:13 pm
      The problem is AP will never admit that. He harps on like a stuck record about our 'evil' owners, drawing comparisons between them and H&G but conveniently forgets to mention the state of the club when they took over and what they'd had to do just to get us running like a 'normal' club. Never praises them for the good things they did, never a positive word, always negativity. Our owners aren't perfect but they're far from the picture he likes to paint.

      Not just me who condemns them. Also well respected journalists/commentators like Evans and Barrett. Numerous ex players etc.

      The idea that Fenway "saved us" is nothing short of ridiculous. If I fail to make the repayments on a mortgage, I don't find my home is demolished, it just gets sold off.

      Fenway were the buyer of stolen goods, in a dodgy process that RBS (a scummy lot themselves if u read the financial press) had a gagging order over the press over. So the public were never allowed to hear the truth of the takeover.
      What have RBS got to hide? (Probably a LOT if the rest of their business is anything to go by - just check the fines they've received in recent years!)

      Even the snake Purslow admitted Fenway were "bottom of the barrel" and large debts would still remain (albeit further up the chain of ownership - unlike G&H)

      ________________________ ___
      Whilst there may be superficial differences between this lot and the last lot, the fundamentals are very similar. Even Henry refused to rule out taking dividends and profits out of the club. As things stand, the cash withdraws don't happen in the Hicks manner. Because it all happens between the banks and FSG off books. Fenway make a downpayment of 20% or so, the company appreciates in worth 20% or so, and Fenway are allowed to withdraw equity. Not a lot dissimilar to Hicks at all, except you don't see it in the same way.

      However, this has major repercussions elsewhere:-
      1)ridiculous ticket prices - compare ours to Real, Barca and Bayern.
      Looks like you DONT have to charge sky high prices to be a top club! Thats one lie from Fenway.

      2)A  complete destruction of the ethos of a club. "Liverpool football club exists to win trophies/be a source of pride for our supporters" - Moores.
      Henry " the Liverpool soccer brand exists to monetize customer affinity". Which customers? Standard Chartered? Barcelona? They dont seem that bothered by the 20m "customers" who built the "brand".

      3)Most importantly of all. During the Hicks era we actually bought world class players. We were even ranked number 1 team in Europe. 2 European Cup finals in the Moores/Hicks era.

      Where are we now? We've sold pretty much every top class player from that era. Every one replaced with a low wage, lower quality, lower fee replacement. Even more than G&H, they arent bothered about winning. The truth is clouded in a load of doubletalk and pr guff. Players are bought to profit on, not to win matches on. The objective isnt to build a club or "brand" by building a quality "product" ie team. Its about creating a 2nd or 3rd tier "brand" - like the Pierre Cardin or Quicksave example I gave elsewhere.  Thats fine if that was our natural level. But its not. Our fan base and income justify a rebuilding of our status, of what our identity has truly been. We're Liverpool, once the richest club in britain. Recently the top UEFA ranked club in Europe. We're not Villa or Everton. No one should be fooled by that.

      The scam is ultimately one of arbitrage. World class income, Everton style investment.

      I never expected a giant flood of equity  investment and "buying" trophies.
      But the club deserved certain fundamentals:-

      1)respect for the fact we are a cultural institution not a "brand" or "corporation".

      2)allow the supporters to re-buy their shares in the institution.
      After all, Fenway are actually buyers of stolen goods.

      3)A sunstantially investment from day one to reflect our global fan base.
      An investment that reflects our income.
      An investment that reflects the fact fans contributed to maintain the club for 120 ish years, whilst its previous owners plundered it.

      In other words, Fenway cry that Hicks ruined the club. Sorry but this is a blatant lie from Henry.
      The sale price of the club reflected H&G's abuses, and Fenway got a massve BARGAIN.
      They were therefore under a moral and footballing obligation to rebuild the parts of the playing squad that G&H decimated.
      Shrugging your shoulders and saying "wasnt me mate, it was G&H" wasnt an acceptable response, it was the sign of cu*ts.
      After all, the fan groups enquired to Henry whether they could buy/buy BACK their shares. Henry told them in no uncertain terms to go f**k themselves. (And duly let a basketball clown who thought the Liver bird was a GRIFFIN have a share!!)


      4)An undertaking that if Henry or his colleagues lack the capital or ambition to take the club back to its natural level, then they must search for new capital via the supporters and other responsible parties.

      5)An undertaking that the supporters will have proper imput into the management of the club and regaining its standing/traditions etc.

      ________________________ _____________
      It really wouldn't have taken that much for |Fenway to have satisfied the fans. But thats not their way. They want as much as possible for as little as possible. With as much deception as possible. Frankly, they think we're a bunch of clowns for even LIKING football. I mean how many times do they watch a match!! (Answer much less than G&H even!)

      In on pitch terms terms, all I expected was a proper replacement for Alonso, Mascherano, Keane and a proper Torres replacement.With a bit of padding out. It wouldn't have cost THAT MUCH more money. Esp when you consider the bas**rds had already found about 300m to hold the club captive!!

      It wouldnt have cost THAT much. And we'd have saved ourselves all those half players going in and out. And once a team is built, you might not NEED that much purchasing for 4, 6, even TEN years.

      But all we had was Fenway utlising the tax losses clocked up by G&H to justify pisspoor investment. They call it arbitrage amongst themselves. Football fans should call it "being duplicitous cu*ts".

      With a Rafa or similar at the helm, the revenue would flood in even more. The problem was that they wanted to own the club on an absolute shoestring. Way less than the relative investment we made under the Moores years. And much akin to a mickey mouse  Europa Cup/midtable team.

      _____________
      Some say "oh theyre not like G&H".
      Well:-
      1)no affinity with our traditions and often moderate income fans -CHECK
      2)tendency to bullshit and come out with glib promises they have no intention of keeping
      eg "we can compete with anyone", "we will not sell our best players" - CHECK
      3)lack ofplaying sqyad investment due to the purchase being leveraged" - CHECK
      4)pisspoor performances on the pitch after substantial player sales and after the team came close to league and other success CHECK!
      5)football not an end in its own right, only profit is the objective CHECK
      6)players being considered assets to sell on at a profit CHECK
      7)Replacement players to be cheaper and on lower wages CHECK

      Overall, infact we actually did better on the pitch in the G&H era than we have done under Fenway. AND less quality players sold.

      Sadly, once people detach themselves from the emotion and the addictive nature of being a fan, there isn't a lot of difference between the 2 boards.

      For once, Purslow was spot on.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #18: Oct 07, 2014 04:22:14 pm
      What the F**k are you on about?! If Fenway hadn't bought us we could have (and possibly would have) gone into administration which would have cost us points (Portsmouth got hit with a 9 point deduction). It also would have meant Hodgeson would have remained as gaffer for longer than he did and our performance s would have continued to flounder. The players weren't performing under the circumstances at the time, and it is conceivable that if fsg had not stepped in when they did that we could have been relegated.

      Since they have taken over they have stabilized the club financially, unveiled long overdue plans for a stadium renovation, hired a new manager who has led us back into the CL, and revamped a squad that had been full of overpaid and underperforming players and replaced them with exciting, young, talented players who could grow into superstars in the near future.  They have also backed two managers heavily in the transfer market - Dalglish in his first summer, and then Brendan in his first January and this last summer.

      They haven't been perfect, but they have been very good overall. I personally think it's F***ing disgraceful how some people can even mention them in the same breath as H&G, but to each their own....
      LFCexiled
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #19: Oct 07, 2014 05:19:38 pm
      Really?
      MIRO
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      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #20: Oct 07, 2014 05:43:42 pm
      Not just me who condemns them. Also well respected journalists/commentators like Evans and Barrett. Numerous ex players etc.

      The idea that Fenway "saved us" is nothing short of ridiculous. If I fail to make the repayments on a mortgage, I don't find my home is demolished, it just gets sold off.

      Fenway were the buyer of stolen goods, in a dodgy process that RBS (a scummy lot themselves if u read the financial press) had a gagging order over the press over. So the public were never allowed to hear the truth of the takeover.
      What have RBS got to hide? (Probably a LOT if the rest of their business is anything to go by - just check the fines they've received in recent years!)

      Even the snake Purslow admitted Fenway were "bottom of the barrel" and large debts would still remain (albeit further up the chain of ownership - unlike G&H)

      ________________________ ___
      Whilst there may be superficial differences between this lot and the last lot, the fundamentals are very similar. Even Henry refused to rule out taking dividends and profits out of the club. As things stand, the cash withdraws don't happen in the Hicks manner. Because it all happens between the banks and FSG off books. Fenway make a downpayment of 20% or so, the company appreciates in worth 20% or so, and Fenway are allowed to withdraw equity. Not a lot dissimilar to Hicks at all, except you don't see it in the same way.

      However, this has major repercussions elsewhere:-
      1)ridiculous ticket prices - compare ours to Real, Barca and Bayern.
      Looks like you DONT have to charge sky high prices to be a top club! Thats one lie from Fenway.

      2)A  complete destruction of the ethos of a club. "Liverpool football club exists to win trophies/be a source of pride for our supporters" - Moores.
      Henry " the Liverpool soccer brand exists to monetize customer affinity". Which customers? Standard Chartered? Barcelona? They dont seem that bothered by the 20m "customers" who built the "brand".

      3)Most importantly of all. During the Hicks era we actually bought world class players. We were even ranked number 1 team in Europe. 2 European Cup finals in the Moores/Hicks era.

      Where are we now? We've sold pretty much every top class player from that era. Every one replaced with a low wage, lower quality, lower fee replacement. Even more than G&H, they arent bothered about winning. The truth is clouded in a load of doubletalk and pr guff. Players are bought to profit on, not to win matches on. The objective isnt to build a club or "brand" by building a quality "product" ie team. Its about creating a 2nd or 3rd tier "brand" - like the Pierre Cardin or Quicksave example I gave elsewhere.  Thats fine if that was our natural level. But its not. Our fan base and income justify a rebuilding of our status, of what our identity has truly been. We're Liverpool, once the richest club in britain. Recently the top UEFA ranked club in Europe. We're not Villa or Everton. No one should be fooled by that.

      The scam is ultimately one of arbitrage. World class income, Everton style investment.

      I never expected a giant flood of equity  investment and "buying" trophies.
      But the club deserved certain fundamentals:-

      1)respect for the fact we are a cultural institution not a "brand" or "corporation".

      2)allow the supporters to re-buy their shares in the institution.
      After all, Fenway are actually buyers of stolen goods.

      3)A sunstantially investment from day one to reflect our global fan base.
      An investment that reflects our income.
      An investment that reflects the fact fans contributed to maintain the club for 120 ish years, whilst its previous owners plundered it.

      In other words, Fenway cry that Hicks ruined the club. Sorry but this is a blatant lie from Henry.
      The sale price of the club reflected H&G's abuses, and Fenway got a massve BARGAIN.
      They were therefore under a moral and footballing obligation to rebuild the parts of the playing squad that G&H decimated.
      Shrugging your shoulders and saying "wasnt me mate, it was G&H" wasnt an acceptable response, it was the sign of cu*ts.
      After all, the fan groups enquired to Henry whether they could buy/buy BACK their shares. Henry told them in no uncertain terms to go f**k themselves. (And duly let a basketball clown who thought the Liver bird was a GRIFFIN have a share!!)


      4)An undertaking that if Henry or his colleagues lack the capital or ambition to take the club back to its natural level, then they must search for new capital via the supporters and other responsible parties.

      5)An undertaking that the supporters will have proper imput into the management of the club and regaining its standing/traditions etc.

      ________________________ _____________
      It really wouldn't have taken that much for |Fenway to have satisfied the fans. But thats not their way. They want as much as possible for as little as possible. With as much deception as possible. Frankly, they think we're a bunch of clowns for even LIKING football. I mean how many times do they watch a match!! (Answer much less than G&H even!)

      In on pitch terms terms, all I expected was a proper replacement for Alonso, Mascherano, Keane and a proper Torres replacement.With a bit of padding out. It wouldn't have cost THAT MUCH more money. Esp when you consider the bas**rds had already found about 300m to hold the club captive!!

      It wouldnt have cost THAT much. And we'd have saved ourselves all those half players going in and out. And once a team is built, you might not NEED that much purchasing for 4, 6, even TEN years.

      But all we had was Fenway utlising the tax losses clocked up by G&H to justify pisspoor investment. They call it arbitrage amongst themselves. Football fans should call it "being duplicitous cu*ts".

      With a Rafa or similar at the helm, the revenue would flood in even more. The problem was that they wanted to own the club on an absolute shoestring. Way less than the relative investment we made under the Moores years. And much akin to a mickey mouse  Europa Cup/midtable team.

      _____________
      Some say "oh theyre not like G&H".
      Well:-
      1)no affinity with our traditions and often moderate income fans -CHECK
      2)tendency to bullshit and come out with glib promises they have no intention of keeping
      eg "we can compete with anyone", "we will not sell our best players" - CHECK
      3)lack ofplaying sqyad investment due to the purchase being leveraged" - CHECK
      4)pisspoor performances on the pitch after substantial player sales and after the team came close to league and other success CHECK!
      5)football not an end in its own right, only profit is the objective CHECK
      6)players being considered assets to sell on at a profit CHECK
      7)Replacement players to be cheaper and on lower wages CHECK

      Overall, infact we actually did better on the pitch in the G&H era than we have done under Fenway. AND less quality players sold.

      Sadly, once people detach themselves from the emotion and the addictive nature of being a fan, there isn't a lot of difference between the 2 boards.

      For once, Purslow was spot on.

      With respect I have never read so much sh*te in ages.

      Blame first went to Parry and Moores for ditching Dubai and going with the Cowboys all on the strength of AP  (American Patter ) and a dodgy phone call from Rothschilds giving Hicks the OK.

      If they had done their Due Diligence and David Moores had half a thought for his fathers legacy with this club over many years, he would have done his DD and found out by scraping the surface what a pair of crooks and double dealers Hicks and Gillett were.

      BTW   Look who we had to sell in the three years their fingers were in the cookie jar.
      List them. World class players.  HAD to sell them.

      Well Plant .

      See where you true colours lie. Sticking up for your slimeball crook compatriots Hansel and Gretel and their Fairy Stories.

      Card marked mate.
      DaktionLFC
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,084 posts | 84 
      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #21: Oct 07, 2014 06:09:14 pm
      I would have to disagree with most of your assessment of the owner.

      I certainly don't agree that "time and time again the owners have shown they want what's best 4th for club"! Transfer window after transfer window ( bar this one) has weakened the squad just to save money.

      You give them credit for keeping Suarez,  then gave them credit for selling him!???? They kept Suarez because Arsenal didn't offer £70 million, that's the only reason. Suarez wanted to go, that's the only good reason for letting him go.

      Sure the stadium is finally getting built up,  but the fans are going to be paying through the nose for it.

      I'm also not sure why fans are happy to accept that FSG won't spend any of their own money.

      I give them credit for first holding onto suarez and then selling him A YEAR LATER because in that one year, so many circumstances changed.  1) they did not sell suarez to another prem team.  2) after the bite on ivan... we all thought maybe suarez would change... the bite in the world cup just showed us that suarez will never change... time to get the most we can from him and ship him out.  So yes, you trying to question the logic doesn't work when so many circumstances have forced FSG's hand.   

      Plus, they let BR use 100% of that suarez money plus lots more.  I do believe FSG wants what is best of Liverpool.  even for selfish reasons to maximize value of club so one day they will sell... it doesn't matter, they are taking the right steps to grow the club

      At the end of the day, I look at the other 19 owners of the other 19 prem league teams.  There are maybe only a couple of other owners I would think would be good for us... the others including the glazers... are not an improvement to FSG.  heck... go look at the situation at everton and how tight their spending is.   wait or would you like that Vincent tam guy over at Cardiff from last year?   maybe he'll do a reverse on Liverpool and make us blue...  or how about the owner over at hull city 'Tigers'... I can see it now.. go Liverpool liverbirds....

      So I will say it again.  Till FSG does a major fk up.... I think they have positively influenced the club. 

      and for fucks sakes... people that keep comparing owners of now with owners from before... the football world has exponentially changed.  There were definitely less big fish in the pond. 

      lastly, people that keep saying for owners to dig into their pocket to fund transfers... then complain when ticket prices go up.  yet its the same people that say the fans own Liverpool.. the glory is their... well... besides supporting the club with your heart, sometimes you have to do it financially when you go to games / buy the gear.   We don't have a sheik... so if we want uber amount of $$ to fund transfers... Liverpool needs to up their revenues.  ticket sales are one way.
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • Started Topic

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: What might cause you to start/increase any type of protest vs the current board?
      Reply #22: Oct 07, 2014 06:17:57 pm
      What the F**k are you on about?! If Fenway hadn't bought us we could have (and possibly would have) gone into administration which would have cost us points (Portsmouth got hit with a 9 point deduction). It also would have meant Hodgeson would have remained as gaffer for longer than he did and our performance s would have continued to flounder. The players weren't performing under the circumstances at the time, and it is conceivable that if fsg had not stepped in when they did that we could have been relegated.

      Since they have taken over they have stabilized the club financially, unveiled long overdue plans for a stadium renovation, hired a new manager who has led us back into the CL, and revamped a squad that had been full of overpaid and underperforming players and replaced them with exciting, young, talented players who could grow into superstars in the near future.  They have also backed two managers heavily in the transfer market - Dalglish in his first summer, and then Brendan in his first January and this last summer.

      They haven't been perfect, but they have been very good overall. I personally think it's f**king disgraceful how some people can even mention them in the same breath as H&G, but to each their own....

      What utter garbage. Purslow admitted a large number of people had genuine interest in buying the club. Because the fans group called him out for trying to amend meeting minutes he refused to speak to them re a takeover. Anyway, enquiries were confidential,  partly due to RBS's gagging order.

      No evidence that someone else, someone BETTER wouldn't have bought LFC. And a 9pt deduction wouldnt have mattered anyway. No evidence whatsoever that Bodgson would have stayed on. Infact, I wager the clown wouldve been sacked EARLIER!

      Fenway did NO ONE favours but themselves. If keeping us at latter day Hicks and Gilette levels of performance is something to be grateful for, I really dont see the pt in debating with you.

      As for this "backing the managers", thats the stuff of comedy. Look at who we've lost. Look where we are now, without Luis. Struggling for 4th... as we were under the previous bas**rds in the end. Except for last season, our performance has been pretty poor under Fenway.

      New stand? Whoopy doo! Just what Moores said "wasnt good enough" - FIFTEEN YEARS AGO!! Shame its been funded by the sale of our best ever player too!

      What IS  F***ing disgraceful is a bunch of American jokers bumming the club up the arse, and the ignorant like you saying "thankyou"... :roll:

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