Should we bring in a defensive coach?...

Did we have a striker coach last season or any other ?? No . Want to know why ? They were capable forwards who were good and worked hard in training. Im Sorry but the players are not good enough very average signings and vastly overpriced markovic and lovren especially . We pay over the odds constantly and our scouting network and abilities to unearth gems is poor .

Did we have a striker coach last season or any other ?? No . Want to know why ? They were capable forwards who were good and worked hard in training. Im Sorry but the players are not good enough very average signings and vastly overpriced markovic and lovren especially . We pay over the odds constantly and our scouting network and abilities to unearth gems is poor .

All international players in our back line apart from Manquillo so maybe they are good enough and think about it maybe it's the coaching they receive or the team system?

If we take BR at his word, and I see no reason not to, the team does defensive work in training.
However, this is not being shown during matches.

There is more than one reason why our defense isn't holding up, but for me it starts with the fact that in open play they have little cover in front of them and the fact that 1 likes to play a high line whilst the other wants to play deep. Add in the full backs pushing up, and our cover wandering about, and I think you have the bulk of the problem right there.

Set pieces are a different problem, but it looks to me like there is confusion about who does what, not helped by Balotelli being a complete novice at defending in the box. To me, this smacks of a lack of proper preparation.

I also don't think BR is that good a manager in a tactical sense, so whilst he may be able to identify area's of opposition strengths he lacks the ability (at the moment) to counter them effectively.

All international players in our back line apart from Manquillo so maybe they are good enough and think about it maybe it's the coaching they receive or the team system?

Absolutely right, mate. We're turning top class players in to jabbering idiots on the field. It's not the players that are at fault, it's the system. The fact we've bought three Centre backs in three years and still haven't sorted the problem speaks volumes. The problem is that none of them are taking responsibility, they're all operating with a seemingly "let the other guy deal with it" attitude. I'd say the mistakes they make are school boy errors except there isn't a school boy in the country that makes them. That's why I don't think we need a new defensive coach. The mistakes will cease when the players start taking responsibility on the pitch.

Anyone think I slight change in midfield ahead of the back four could make a difference?

4 2 3 1

With Gerrard/Can and Hendo as the two.

Anyone think I slight change in midfield ahead of the back four could make a difference?

4 2 3 1

With Gerrard/Can and Hendo as the two.

We need them to play like an old fashioned midfield pairing though, which pretty much rules Gerrard out if they take it in turns to go forwards. One sits, one goes forwards, then they change it around or react to a developing situation so that one is always sitting.
The player who goes forwards would also need to be aware enough to track opposition runners back if the attack breaks down.
We'd also need the full backs to be more tactically aware, and not just bomb forwards at every opportunity.

We need them to play like an old fashioned midfield pairing though, which pretty much rules Gerrard out if they take it in turns to go forwards. One sits, one goes forwards, then they change it around or react to a developing situation so that one is always sitting.
The player who goes forwards would also need to be aware enough to track opposition runners back if the attack breaks down.
We'd also need the full backs to be more tactically aware, and not just bomb forwards at every opportunity.

I was thinking the same Swab but hesitated to totally leave Stevie out its normally seen that I'm singling him out.

I genuinely feel however that a two of Can and Hendo in front of a back four with Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho/Markovic ahead could give the side a bit more balance and solidity.

Nothing to do with Gerrard as an individual just looking for a solution to the current problem.

If we take BR at his word, and I see no reason not to, the team does defensive work in training.
However, this is not being shown during matches.

There is more than one reason why our defense isn't holding up, but for me it starts with the fact that in open play they have little cover in front of them and the fact that 1 likes to play a high line whilst the other wants to play deep. Add in the full backs pushing up, and our cover wandering about, and I think you have the bulk of the problem right there.

Set pieces are a different problem, but it looks to me like there is confusion about who does what, not helped by Balotelli being a complete novice at defending in the box. To me, this smacks of a lack of proper preparation.

I also don't think BR is that good a manager in a tactical sense, so whilst he may be able to identify area's of opposition strengths he lacks the ability (at the moment) to counter them effectively


So we have bought 3 players and its still not working not that the 3 players arent good enough. If you think coaching will help the goals 2 and 3 you are seriously in need of finding some straws   

Absolutely right, mate. We're turning top class players in to jabbering idiots on the field. It's not the players that are at fault, it's the system. The fact we've bought three Centre backs in three years and still haven't sorted the problem speaks volumes. The problem is that none of them are taking responsibility, they're all operating with a seemingly "let the other guy deal with it" attitude. I'd say the mistakes they make are school boy errors except there isn't a school boy in the country that makes them. That's why I don't think we need a new defensive coach. The mistakes will cease when the players start taking responsibility on the pitch.

Clueless if you think a coach would have prevented goal 2 and 3 yesterday go and find some straws

I've figured out ourproblem. Since Suarez left, and Sturridge got injured,  our Defenders are practicing against Mario, Borini and Lambert!  There not used to attackers that score goals 

I was thinking the same Swab but hesitated to totally leave Stevie out its normally seen that I'm singling him out.

I genuinely feel however that a two of Can and Hendo in front of a back four with Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho/Markovic ahead could give the side a bit more balance and solidity.

Nothing to do with Gerrard as an individual just looking for a solution to the current problem.

I think Gerrard gets pretty much a free ride on this forum.
In some ways, it's fair enough because of the player he has been for us.

Let's be fair though, Gerrard has always been a bit of a maverick. It's part of his brilliance, which at times has come close to genius, but every time I see him following the ball for no reason, or wandering about a bit aimlessly, or sitting in another players zone, I think back to Arrigo Sacchi's words about him.

Now, I found Sacchi's assessment of "he's a great footballer, but not a great player" harsh initially, but I've seen that there is more than a little truth in his words.

I expect him to get better as the season continues, but if Rafa couldn't instill the necessary discipline into his game, I doubt BR can.
In fact, BR seems almost star struck by Gerrard and has gone against his own instincts and philosophy to shoehorn Gerrard into the team.
It's a reasonable thing to do, because even now, when he's in decent form he's our best passer, so using him as a "quarterback" makes sense.

The problem is one of balance, and at this time, Gerrard unbalances the side because he cannot sustain a high work rate over 90 minutes, which is essential to the way BR wants us to play.
So, when Gerrard slows down during a match, so does the rest of the team.
I also really don't like the idea of other players doing his running for him.
That works fine in slower leagues, but not in the prem.

I'm not advocating dropping him, because he will get better as the season goes on, but if BR is insisting on playing him in every game, then he needs to find a way to balance the midfield and be able to screen the back four.

Anyone think I slight change in midfield ahead of the back four could make a difference?

4 2 3 1

With Gerrard/Can and Hendo as the two.

Not really. I think they've become so paranoid about making mistakes that it's causing them to make mistakes. They just need to keep a couple of clean sheets so they relax and begin to get their confidence back which will lead to more clean sheets and increasing confidence as the season progresses. Forget free flowing football of a couple of games. Park the bus and hit them on the counter attack if necessary but do whatever it takes to come out of the next two games without conceding.

I was thinking the same Swab but hesitated to totally leave Stevie out its normally seen that I'm singling him out.

I genuinely feel however that a two of Can and Hendo in front of a back four with Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho/Markovic ahead could give the side a bit more balance and solidity.

Nothing to do with Gerrard as an individual just looking for a solution to the current problem.

Don't think personnel is the issue too much mate if you watch how we're playing at the moment we simply don't tackle.

It's all hassle the opposition but don't actually commit. Was driving me insane watching Isco and Marcelo drive through our left hand side like a hot knife through butter. Granted they're both decent players but it's not bloody Messi.

We have a serious issue with the way we compete for the football and meet the challenge in all areas of the pitch. Sometimes a tackle can be a momentum swinger too and most certainly can get the crowd up for the battle but we have little intent of winning the ball back with aggression we're a far too passive team.

Or maybe, just maybe, it's an easy way to say they want the manager out?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's an even easier way to say they don't want the manager out (because they can see the good he's done) and getting someone new in, to assist with a team weakness, will help keep Brendan here.   

Or maybe, just maybe, it's an even easier way to say they don't want the manager out (because they can see the good he's done) and getting someone new in, to assist with a team weakness, will help keep Brendan here.   

Possibly Mouse.

You really see Brendan open to someone else coming into his staff?

Only way I see that happening is if Brendan himself brings someone in.

Crying out for help ??screaming more like our defence is a shambles their is no other way of putting it.
Now this has to be down to BR no two ways about it,last season we were very poor at the back but our attacking threat sort of papered over that.
We need help big time and Steve Clark would be my vote he's done it before with kenny knows the club well what's not to like about it??

Seems like last year towards the end of the season we were pressing better and harassing more. Granted we still shipped some easy goals, but for the most part we kept other teams on the back foot not just from our offensive firepower, but from our propensity to harass them to give us the ball back.

Like KopiteLuke I've been wanting a defensive coach in for long enough, someone like Steve Clarke for example, 

Whether it happens or not remains to be seen, the benefits far outweigh the negatives imo, anyhoo,  my take on it is....

that your defence starts with your keeper,

Whichever way you look at it Mignolet simply doesn't cut the mustard, I think he's a major factor in our problems, not saying he should shoulder all blame but let's face it, he doesn't exactly fill those in front of him with confidence does he ?
Good shot stopper but everything else he does is at best average,

Johnson,  decent going forward but lacks a killer ball, still inconsistent, gives the ball away to often, can't defend like a proper defender can, he's got invaluable experience but simply put it's not enough,

Skrtel is having one of his lull periods,  one season he's immense next not so solid, he lacks control,  panics when pressurised and tends to lunge in, he needs a dominating partner for him.to perform at his best, which brings me on to Lovren,

Sami,  he's not, not even close, same with Carra, hasn't got the club yet,  he's not playing for that bird on his chest, not sure if he ever will at the moment,  but there is something there, something lying underneath waiting,  and maybe with some  coaching it might come to the surface,

Moreno,  the one shining light,  can defend,  has pace aplenty,  attacks like his life depends on it, can deliver,  he's clever,  oozes class and is a quality purchase,

Manquillo,  has done ok without being flattering,  decent going forward but lacks a final ball, has potential the lad,  again like Lovren with a bit of coaching could become a permanent feature,

Flanagan,  feel sorry for the lad,  just getting his career going after spending years hoping for his chance,  never a good time to get injured but, the timing could not be worse this time,
He has a distinct advantage over others,  he's got the club at heart,  he feels the pain we fans feel, he WILL run through brick walls, but, has he got the other qualities,?
he can defend for sure, but going forward gives him nosebleeds, 

Sakho & Toure, are not any better than those mentioned,  and all for me need proper coaching,  they need a voice pitchside, organising,  cajoling,  bollocking even,

     "if you don't concede, you don't lose"

When your missing your main striker, or are just not scoring enough,  least you can do is batten down the hatches,  man all pumps and give F**k all away,  right now we're doing neither,

But we need to real soon,  sooner the better,

YNWA

Or maybe, just maybe, it's an even easier way to say they don't want the manager out (because they can see the good he's done) and getting someone new in, to assist with a team weakness, will help keep Brendan here.   

on the other thread its apparent Brendan's teams do not do well in defence in his last season with Swansea and his two full seasons with us he has conceded over 130 goals.

Do we really need a defensive coach at the club? At what point do we stop making excuses and accept that the players themselves must accept responsibility for their own actions.

At the same point as we realise that no matter how often we first blame, then replace players who were previously deemed "good enough", nothing has improved?

They were deemed "good enough " weren't they and I'm not imagining it?... I mean; the 'old guard' (as records show) used to be good and the new kids are good (why else would we have signed them?); right?

Then again: maybe we've just been very unlucky of late - first the 'old guard' stop accepting responsibility [even if the facts tell a different tale] and now, those bought to replace them, take the same path. 

Either way - something needs to be done.

No, we need a manager who can actually manage a great club.

Klopp would be the perfect match to our philosophy : young, charismatic, has a philosophy which favoures our style of play from last season, his team plays a very attractive football, even though they suffer in this moment, mainly because he has a team plagued by many injuries, i bet that at the end of the season he'll finish in top 3 with bvb

Only way I see that happening is if Brendan himself brings someone in.

A change of personnel; promotion from within maybe? He's done it before mate.

I'm sorry, but you cant blame the players for a run of 18 games with 1 clean sheet. Something is fundamentally wrong with how we are setting ourselves up.

I without a doubt agree we need a defensive coach. He doesn't need to impose his views on any of Brendan's tactics other than tell the players how to defend a ball into the box from a free kick of a corner.

As Carra said yesterday, Houllier once set his team an aim to not concede in a game, and forget about the result. I think that type of approach is needed at the moment, as we have some ingrained flaws in our current approach to games, and we aren't playing the free flowing football to get ourselves out of trouble when we concede soft goals.