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      The summer transfer conundrum

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      5timesacharm
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #115: Oct 27, 2014 08:01:53 pm
      Yes well wages aren't that far apart. We're the lowest out of last year's top four but not by that much.

      Liverpool - £1.5 million p.w.
      Arsenal - £1.6 million p.w.
      Man City - £2 million p.w.
      Chelsea - £2.1 million p.w.

      http://www.tsmplug.com/football/

      What I'm trying to say is that the gap in wages is not as wide as the gap in talent. If you look at City or Chelsea's squad, and compare it to our squad, you'd think they would be paying out a lot more than half a mill more than us a year in wages. For example, Ivanovic is on £75K, Lovren is on £70K. Oscar is on £70K, Lallana is on £75K. It's just a couple of big earners like Costa and Fàbregas that bump them up above ours. In the case of City, some of their wages are a hang over from before they where in the Champions league and they paid higher wages to compensate. Despite their vain attempts to dodge it, it's part of what got them in trouble with FFP last season. Personally I think there's a wider gulf in our comparative talent base than our wage structures.
      « Last Edit: Oct 27, 2014 08:21:24 pm by 5timesacharm »
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #116: Oct 27, 2014 08:07:30 pm
      Yes well wages aren't that far apart. We're the lowest out of last year's top four but not by that much.

      Liverpool - £1.5 million p.a.
      Arsenal - £1.6 million p.a.
      Man City - £2 million p.a.
      Chelsea - £2.1 million p.a.

      http://www.tsmplug.com/football/

      What I'm trying to say is that the gap in wages is not as wide as the gap in talent. If you look at City or Chelsea's squad, and compare it to our squad, you'd think they would be paying out a lot more than half a mill more than us a year in wages. For example, Ivanovic is on £75K, Lovren is on £70K. Oscar is on £70K, Lallana is on £75K. It's just a couple of big earners like Costa and Fàbregas that bump them up above ours. In the case of City, some of their wages are a hang over from before they where in the Champions league and they paid higher wages to compensate. Despite their vain attempts to dodge it, it's part of what got them in trouble with FFP last season. Personally I think there's a wider gulf in our comparative talent base than our wage structures.

      I wouldn't disagree mate  on the potential talent overall , but as you say the couple of big earners, but they are the game changers, the top end players we can't compete with Chelsea for that would make a massive difference to our current squad

      reddebs
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #117: Oct 27, 2014 08:07:34 pm
      Yes well wages aren't that far apart. We're the lowest out of last year's top four but not by that much.

      Liverpool - £1.5 million p.a.
      Arsenal - £1.6 million p.a.
      Man City - £2 million p.a.
      Chelsea - £2.1 million p.a.

      http://www.tsmplug.com/football/

      They're weekly figures not annual mate.  £600k per week more over 52 weeks is over £31m higher wage bill than ours.

      According to our accounts posted in May this year shows our wage bill at £132m.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #118: Oct 27, 2014 08:20:33 pm
      They're weekly figures not annual mate.  £600k per week more over 52 weeks is over £31m higher wage bill than ours.

      According to our accounts posted in May this year shows our wage bill at £132m.

      Doh! You're right. Point still stands though. The wage gulf isn't as wide as the talent gulf.
      srslfc
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #119: Oct 27, 2014 10:08:12 pm
      Not a simple question though is it.

      Many will say that although Brendan said he had final say he truly does not.

      Is it Brendan?
      Is it the Committee?
      Is it the Owners?
      Does Brendan have and budget and can do whatever he wants or is he restricted by mandates?

      Its really not a simple question at all.

      True AZ.

      I know I 'trust' that he knows a good footballer when he sees one.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #120: Oct 27, 2014 10:10:24 pm
      True AZ.

      I know I 'trust' that he knows a good footballer when he sees one.

      What do you base that trust on Si?
      srslfc
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #121: Oct 27, 2014 10:12:41 pm
      What do you base that trust on Si?

      I think Brendan knows a player Luke. I always have thought that.

      It's when he has to work around the criteria set by his bosses where the problems arise in my opinion.

      Purely on a football basis I think Brendan can be 'trusted' to know what a good footballer looks like.
      HScRed1
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #122: Oct 27, 2014 10:14:34 pm
      I think Brendan knows a player Luke. I always have thought that.

      It's when he has to work around the criteria set by his bosses where the problems arise in my opinion.

      Purely on a football basis I think Brendan can be 'trusted' to know what a good footballer looks like.

      I think as Luke has suggested apart from Couts and Studge not much evidence really.
      srslfc
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #123: Oct 27, 2014 10:16:45 pm
      I think as Luke has suggested apart from Couts and Studge not much evidence really.

      Lallana, Moreno, Manquillo, Allen, Markovic, Sakho, Lovren, Balotelli.

      All good footballers in my opinion but whether he can get them to work in a team is a different debate.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #124: Oct 27, 2014 10:17:39 pm
      I think Brendan knows a player Luke. I always have thought that.

      It's when he has to work around the criteria set by his bosses where the problems arise in my opinion.

      Purely on a football basis I think Brendan can be 'trusted' to know what a good footballer looks like.

      I tend to agree Si but yours and my opinion are based on an overwhelming amount of assumptions that are all stacking in Brendan's favour.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #125: Oct 27, 2014 11:16:41 pm
      I think Brendan knows a player Luke. I always have thought that.

      It's when he has to work around the criteria set by his bosses where the problems arise in my opinion.

      Purely on a football basis I think Brendan can be 'trusted' to know what a good footballer looks like.

      You really think that? How many of his signings have worked out? Three? Four at the most? He's made eighteen signings since he's been here. That's an awful lot that hasn't worked out and that doesn't even include the loan signings that have been a waste of money. I don't know whether it's him, the committee isn't working or our scouts are just sh*t but it's clear the system isn't working. 78% of your singings being anywhere between mediocre and an abject failure is far too high a percentage for my liking.
      srslfc
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #126: Oct 27, 2014 11:20:06 pm

      The fact that I took the time to post it suggests I do actually think it.

      He knows a player as far as I'm concerned.

      Whether they work out here is an entirely different debate.

      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #127: Oct 27, 2014 11:23:18 pm
      his first signings where Borini and Allen hardly major successes. I don't think we should use FSG as a get out of jail free card for Brendan . His list of duds is getting bigger each window.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #128: Oct 27, 2014 11:26:48 pm
      his first signings where Borini and Allen hardly major successes. I don't think we should use FSG as a get out of jail free card for Brendan . His list of duds is getting bigger each window.

      Cards on the table Walt

      Where do you stand on the gaffer? Because your 'support' is hardly one you would want in the trenches.

      You say that it would be daft to change but every other post is a dig at the man

      Show me a manager who hasn't made mistakes
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #129: Oct 27, 2014 11:38:20 pm
      You really think that? How many of his signings have worked out? Three? Four at the most? He's made eighteen signings since he's been here. That's an awful lot that hasn't worked out and that doesn't even include the loan signings that have been a waste of money. I don't know whether it's him, the committee isn't working or our scouts are just sh*t but it's clear the system isn't working. 78% of your singings being anywhere between mediocre and an abject failure is far too high a percentage for my liking.

      18 signings with 9 of them signed this season and another 1 who's still with his old club so they can't be judged yet can they? 

      Prior to this season his signings helped us finish 2nd so to label them as mediocre or an abject failure is bewildering the least.
      reddebs
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #130: Oct 27, 2014 11:53:51 pm
      Could be argued (and has been on more than one occasion) that we finished second because of a combination of Suarez, the collapse of Spurs and United and no European football distractions. They're certainly contributory factors. Head to head with any other team in last year's top four, tell me how many players you think stack up?

      I'd say all of them except Migs, Glen and possibly Skrtel. 

      People can put whatever spin they like on why we did so well, the records will still show we finished 2nd and whether some people like it or not, Brendan was a big part of that.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #131: Oct 27, 2014 11:54:32 pm
      One


      Yes one

      World class star added to this squad minus the summer signings had us finishing second.. The whole quality didn't look bad at that point.. You know when we were winning games..

      So what could one or two world class players and the majority of the summer work have done for us?

      Yes Suarez is a massive miss, of course but squads that win stuff don't do it with 25 world class stars, they do it with a solid squad and the few real top quality players.. We've lost a real top quality player, another through injury, yet if you read our forum you would think we are made up of league two journey men and Luis worked a miracle..

      Add Luis back into this squad as it stands with the summer work and we would be wanking off at it and what it would be doing, add another to Luis and the manager would win us the league.

      Blame him for having the 2nd or 3rd best player in world football taken away from him? And not being given the reins to go and attract another Suarez or two with fees and wages..

      No let's just blame him for not signing Granziano Pelle and not being Ronald F***ing Koeman
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #132: Oct 28, 2014 12:07:05 am
      Considering we're talking about summer conundrums and everybody becoming all so precious and defensive:

      Last summer the same was said early on, where are they now?

      Mignolet - Regarded as a weakness by most, certainly by me.
      Toure - Regarded as a calamity by most, not by me.
      Aspas - Regarded as a w**ker by most, certainly by me and a waste of money.
      Alberto - Shipped out on loan, never got a look in, would be hard to cast much of a judgement such is the little impact he had.
      Ilori - 2 years out on loan, clearly never had an impact on our season last year.
      Sakho - So good the boss decided to spend another £20m trying to replace him. Mama wasn't too happy about that.

      An absolute disaster of a window. Brendan deserves an enormous amount of credit for the coaching he did last season but most of whom he was coaching were already here before he came kidding yourselves about this and his transfer record I don't understand the motives behind that.

      Our transfer policy is broken, ineffective and needs fixing it's that simple.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #133: Oct 28, 2014 12:13:15 am

      Our transfer policy is broken, ineffective and needs fixing it's that simple.

      I'm not convinced that many disagree Luke, I'm just not sure that all believe that the manager either has full control or ability to bring in whoever he wants.

      I tell you what though, take the whole transfers off the table and let him work with what he has and for a reasonable amount of time before the less patient within our number get too jittery and I think you're right, he will coach these lot better
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #134: Oct 28, 2014 12:13:26 am
      We reportedly had around £60 million to use on players prior to the sale of Suarez. If we assume for argument's sake that that is true, add the £75 million from Suarez and that's £135 million to spend. So just as an example, and I know it's not as simplistic as this, I'm just giving a 'what if?' the window had gone like this:

      Valdes brought in for competition/replacement/cover for Mignolet.
      Fàbregas rather than Marković and Lambert.
      Higuain rather than signing Origi.

      Along with Moreno, Manquilo, Lovren, Can and Balotelli.

      We'd have spent a little more than £21 million more than we did but still within the reported budgetary limit.

      You can replace those names with any other high quality player of your choice, and like I said, I know it's not as simplistic as I'm making it out to be, but the point is, wouldn't our squad truly have been stronger if we'd shown more ambition? Two big signings, one on a free, the rest squad fillers and in total, one less signing than we made in the Summer.

      stuey
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #135: Oct 28, 2014 12:23:48 am
      I'm not convinced that many disagree Luke, I'm just not sure that all believe that the manager either has full control or ability to bring in whoever he wants.

      I tell you what though, take the whole transfers off the table and let him work with what he has and for a reasonable amount of time before the less patient within our number get too jittery and I think you're right, he will coach these lot better

      This all day.
      Kubee
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #136: Oct 28, 2014 12:26:52 am
      We reportedly had around £60 million to use on players prior to the sale of Suarez. If we assume for argument's sake that that is true, add the £75 million from Suarez and that's £135 million to spend. So just as an example, and I know it's not as simplistic as this, I'm just giving a 'what if?' the window had gone like this:

      Valdes brought in for competition/replacement/cover for Mignolet.
      Fàbregas rather than Marković and Lambert.
      Higuain rather than signing Origi.

      Along with Moreno, Manquilo, Lovren, Can and Balotelli.

      We'd have spent a little more than £21 million more than we did but still within the reported budgetary limit.

      You can replace those names with any other high quality player of your choice, and like I said, I know it's not as simplistic as I'm making it out to be, but the point is, wouldn't our squad truly have been stronger if we'd shown more ambition? Two big signings, one on a free, the rest squad fillers and in total, one less signing than we made in the Summer.
      Problem is that Higuain, Valdes and Fabregas would all demand very high wages, whereas most of our new signings are reportedly on about 30-50k per week. We'd also probably need to pay Valdes a fairly substantial signing-on fee as he is a free agent. This obviously goes against what seems to be FSG's business model.

      But I agree: our main failures this window were not buying an established, mobile, goalscoring forward and a top-class keeper. Our transfer policy has been a shambles since circa 2008.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #137: Oct 28, 2014 12:30:07 am
      Problem is that Higuain, Valdes and Fabregas would all demand very high wages, whereas most of our signings are reportedly on about 30-50k per week.

      But I agree: our main failures this window were not buying an established, mobile, goalscoring forward and a top-class keeper.

      You're right mate, but you can only entice what you are willing to pay for..

      Some may see these signings as average.. A couple of steps down from the level we want.. But if you want a Ferrari but are only willing to pay for a VW... You will only end up driving a VW

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