The summer transfer conundrum

Using the same source as I used before for the wages:

Fàbregas is on £200K a week at Chelsea - Suarez was on £200K a week at Liverpool.
Higuain is on £83K a week at Napoli. Clearly he would want more from us so, I don't know, say £150K a week? - Lambert and Markovic are on a combined £80K a week with us.

That's only £70K more we have to come up with. Since we're saving £4.1 million a year on wages with the players we wouldn't have signed, and since we're coming in at £25 million under budget, we should easily have enough money to use for wages rather than transfer fees.

I'm well aware a lot of this is speculative, I'm just giving examples of how the money could be used better without costing us a penny more than we had available to begin with.

As long as we remember whilst doing this fantasy transfer malarkey, that under-21 players purchased don't affect us under the FFP rules and we were rumoured to be sailing close to the edge on that one.

Using the same source as I used before for the wages:

Fàbregas is on £200K a week at Chelsea - Suarez was on £200K a week at Liverpool.
Higuain is on £83K a week at Napoli. Clearly he would want more from us so, I don't know, say £150K a week? - Lambert and Markovic are on a combined £80K a week with us.

That's only £70K more we have to come up with. Since we're saving £4.1 million a year on wages with the players we wouldn't have signed, and since we're coming in at £25 million under budget, we should easily have enough money to use for wages rather than transfer fees.

I'm well aware a lot of this is speculative, I'm just giving examples of how the money could be used better without costing us a penny more than we had available to begin with.

As far as I'm aware Luis never got paid his £200k pw as it only came into effect this summer, although his new contract gave him an immediate rise to £160k pw.  He did however start on £35k pw.  Also any Serie A salaries are always quoted after tax so Higuain would want even more than you're suggesting.

No matter what we think players should be offered our owners have made it clear from day one that they won't bring in new players on big wages, they have to earn them and as Luis showed if you become a valuable member of the squad, you'll earn big money.  Danny, Flanno, Cou and Raheem are all set to get new deals after contributing to our success last season.

As far as I'm aware Luis never got paid his £200k pw as it only came into effect this summer, although his new contract gave him an immediate rise to £160k pw.  He did however start on £35k pw.  Also any Serie A salaries are always quoted after tax so Higuain would want even more than you're suggesting.

No matter what we think players should be offered our owners have made it clear from day one that they won't bring in new players on big wages, they have to earn them and as Luis showed if you become a valuable member of the squad, you'll earn big money.  Danny, Flanno, Cou and Raheem are all set to get new deals after contributing to our success last season.

On Suarez, it's irrelevant, He would have been paid that. If he'd stayed, we'd not be having this discussion. Since he left, I see no reason why someone else couldn't be paid that much. Clearly it had been budgeted for. As for Serie A salaries, various sources say Higuain is on €5.5 million per annum. Whether that's before or after tax doesn't matter because as I said, we're coming in under budget and saving money on players we wouldn't have to have signed which could be used on wages rather than transfer fees.

The entire point of my exercise is to demonstrate how we could have spent the money on one or two big name players, still fleshed out the squad and still come in under budget. My 'what if?' Summer transfer list isn't a million miles away from what we actually signed, it's just one player less than we signed but brings in that little bit of extra needed quality. FSG's model just needs a little more flexibility in it to work.

On Suarez, it's irrelevant, He would have been paid that. If he'd stayed, we'd not be having this discussion. Since he left, I see no reason why someone else couldn't be paid that much. Clearly it had been budgeted for. As for Serie A salaries, various sources say Higuain is on €5.5 million per annum. Whether that's before or after tax doesn't matter because as I said, we're coming in under budget and saving money on players we wouldn't have to have signed which could be used on wages rather than transfer fees.

The entire point of my exercise is to demonstrate how we could have spent the money on one or two big name players, still fleshed out the squad and still come in under budget. My 'what if?' Summer transfer list isn't a million miles away from what we actually signed, it's just one player less than we signed but brings in that little bit of extra needed quality. FSG's model just needs a little more flexibility in it to work.

We'd be in exactly the same position if Luis had stayed.  Danny would still be injured and Luis was banned till last weekend but anyway your "what if" transfer list is not going to happen under these owners, even if we trebled our turnover they would still refuse to bring in players on salaries higher than our existing ones.  It's just not going to happen but you carry on beating yourself up over it if it makes you feel better.

I think Brendan knows a player Luke. I always have thought that.

It's when he has to work around the criteria set by his bosses where the problems arise in my opinion.

Purely on a football basis I think Brendan can be 'trusted' to know what a good footballer looks like.

Indeed. Mhkytarian, Willian, Costa and Sanchez to name a few. I think Brendan struggles when he has to really budget though. Sturridge and Coutinho are his two best signings to date.

The jury is still out on whether Brendan will be a success or not but one thing he has proven is a level of arrogance.
Anyone remember the whole "we're not going to do a Spurs because we're working towards a plan" statement?

Eggs and faces come to mind about that now.

This.

. Anyone remember the whole "we're not going to do a Spurs because we're working towards a plan" statement? Eggs and faces come to mind about that now.

Well yes and even though I'm more of a lets have some patience with these lads type of fan he also said on Spurs that if you spend 100 million you should expect to challenge for the title

Case of  don't  talk too much sometimes

The jury is still out on whether Brendan will be a success or not but one thing he has proven is a level of arrogance. Anyone remember the whole "we're not going to do a Spurs because we're working towards a plan" statement? Eggs and faces come to mind about that now.

I think Brendan does talk to much, but to be fair what else was he going to say.... "We have £100million to spend and I am going to just piss it all away on average players."

not one of us mentioned konoplyanka or yarmolenko, they were better options than markovic in my opinion

Is this the same Cole who to be substituted at half time against Bayern as he was so bad. Sagna who cant get a game for City and Lescott who is generally sh*t.
We dont play with a DM otherwise Lucas would have got games.

Seriously guys we have international defenders who play pretty well for their country so bringing in the ones mentioned above would make no difference and in fact they are inferior to the ones we already have.

Said in my post they aren't to everybody's taste and I was suggesting you can pick quality up without paying millions for it rather than stating I wanted those particular players. You don't need to spend 500m to buy a team that can win the league.

But the four players I mentioned are better than what we have anyway.

Cole > Moreno, Enrique
Sagna > Johnson, Manquillo
Song > Lucas & Gerrard as a DM
Lescott > Skrtel, Toure, possibly Lovren.

Said in my post they aren't to everybody's taste and I was suggesting you can pick quality up without paying millions for it rather than stating I wanted those particular players. You don't need to spend 500m to buy a team that can win the league.

But the four players I mentioned are better than what we have anyway.

Cole > Moreno, Enrique
Sagna > Johnson, Manquillo
Song > Lucas & Gerrard as a DM
Lescott > Skrtel, Toure, possibly Lovren.

Cole and Lescott are not better by any measure, the other two maybe, on their good days, but they aren't miles better by any means.

Cole and Lescott are not better by any measure, the other two maybe, on their good days, but they aren't miles better by any means.

Different opinions.

The other thing I have recently been mulling over with transfers is overall how comparably poor we seem against others.

I've long believed that we suffer because of who we are and who we approach in terns of what we are quoted and ultimately end up paying when it comes to signing players and that all big clubs in cash rich leagues suffer from as well.

However I was recently thinking about Chelsea's recent work. They have a woman [i will find her name] who has worked with Ambramovic for the last decade or so since leaving a Moscow university who is now taking over from that American chap [Ron Gourlay?] who was essentially their Ian Ayre..
She has apparently negotiated prices for players and wages since the Torres deal from us, so three years.
This summer she has managed to get Costa and Fabregas for 55 million or thereabouts, you would think that Chelsea would suffer more than us with price spikes in transfer fees but also the money she has brought in, Luiz out nearly covered the Costa and Fabregas ins.. A player that the world knew Mourinho didn't fancy, ok pit it down to PSG having too much to throw around.. But then think De Bruyne, a player with no future not to a cash rich club for top end prices.. There are lots of examples

Yet we pay far too much for players simply not worth that level of outlay and sell for the bottom end of the bracket in the most part.

There are so many things we need to improve on as a football club, boardroom and chief executives need to get better at their jobs too..
Why don't we have a longer list to approach and walk away when a deal isn't right, why get shafted on ins and outs in terns of deals.

Hate Chelsea as much as we like but hats off to her, she has done a wonderful job at getting the best deals ins and puts for that club.

The other thing I have recently been mulling over with transfers is overall how comparably poor we seem against others.

I've long believed that we suffer because of who we are and who we approach in terns of what we are quoted and ultimately end up paying when it comes to signing players and that all big clubs in cash rich leagues suffer from as well.

However I was recently thinking about Chelsea's recent work. They have a woman [i will find her name] who has worked with Ambramovic for the last decade or so since leaving a Moscow university who is now taking over from that American chap [Ron Gourlay?] who was essentially their Ian Ayre..
She has apparently negotiated prices for players and wages since the Torres deal from us, so three years.
This summer she has managed to get Costa and Fabregas for 55 million or thereabouts, you would think that Chelsea would suffer more than us with price spikes in transfer fees but also the money she has brought in, Luiz out nearly covered the Costa and Fabregas ins.. A player that the world knew Mourinho didn't fancy, ok pit it down to PSG having too much to throw around.. But then think De Bruyne, a player with no future not to a cash rich club for top end prices.. There are lots of examples

Yet we pay far too much for players simply not worth that level of outlay and sell for the bottom end of the bracket in the most part.

There are so many things we need to improve on as a football club, boardroom and chief executives need to get better at their jobs too..
Why don't we have a longer list to approach and walk away when a deal isn't right, why get shafted on ins and outs in terns of deals.

Hate Chelsea as much as we like but hats off to her, she has done a wonderful job at getting the best deals ins and puts for that club.

The Mancs always had it too Jon, selling crap from there squad amounting to many millions each window. Our negotiators are incompetent I've thought that for a long time, the only time in recent memory I was delighted with a quoted figure was when we couldn't bloody sell him. (Borini)

The Mancs always had it too Jon, selling crap from there squad amounting to many millions each window. Our negotiators are incompetent I've thought that for a long time, the only time in recent memory I was delighted with a quoted figure was when we couldn't bloody sell him. (Borini)

I've never really brought into the thought process of 'get who you are after whatever it costs' because there is and should be a limit, and if the selling club go well beyond that then there should be others you turn to, it's not like there is that much of a drop off between option A and B at this level.. We can't be constantly be held to ransom, that's not the managers fault or the scouts it's who is negotiation the deals and they need to be big enough to say it's not value we have to move on, because if that player is unsettled and you hold your nerve you will find that deals can be made.
In conventional wisdom there is always a market value and if you pay getting on double that value then the pressure on that signing is fever pitch before they start.

The Mancs always had it too Jon, selling crap from there squad amounting to many millions each window.Our negotiators are incompetent I've thought that for a long time, the only time in recent memory I was delighted with a quoted figure was when we couldn't bloody sell him. (Borini)

Incompetent or ill-equipped Luke the result is the same - bollox.

Maybe it's easier to negotiate a fee if the player really wants to come there?

So in Chelsea's case maybe those players you mentioned Jon really wanted to go there and were willing to take a "reasonable" deal to make the move?

Maybe it's easier to negotiate a fee if the player really wants to come there?

So in Chelsea's case maybe those players you mentioned Jon really wanted to go there and were willing to take a "reasonable" deal to make the move?

The fee is down to the club though mate, Lovren made it clear he wanted to come here yet we paid what's deemed to be the top end value?

Like I say it's the outgoings as well, they wanted rid of De Bruyne and Luiz and managed to make a profit on those two after they bring in Costa and Fabregas

Just outstanding work really

It goes back to Rafa when he stated that this club is being run by men who don't know football, maybe the club need to appoint a buyer solely for player acquisitions & selling.

Ultimately, the team is considered one of the "products" by the hedge funders that own our LFC Ltd

A fundamental of business is being careful not to "over-engineer" a product or make it "too good".
But a fundamental of football is to actually ensure the product is "too good" ie for the opposition.
So they're at complete odds to begin with.

Its interesting to note what happened after we last finished second. That ofcourse was that we BECAME sh*te.
The owners broke up the team - Alonso and then Masch. And even all these yrs later, the midfield hasn't recovered. And its pretty much a carbon copy this time as we finished second THIS year.

What are big issues to us, what are big mysteries, aren't remotely important to the board when it meets over in Boston or wherever. They don't give a sh*t. Football success is IRRELEVANT.

Our objective is to "plausibly challenge for 4th", probably even FIFTH! Their objective is to lower expectation. Because expectation demands investment, and certainly precludes asset stripping of the top players.

The promises that they'd compete with everyone have melted away. The promises too, that they'd compete with everyone AFTER FFP is instated... they've melted away. Werner's claims they are "fervent, fervent fans"... well.. they've melted away.

All they want to do is fill the ground, sell a lot of merchandise (based around the "storied Liverpool soccer brand" routine) and keep pulling in the deals - albeit at a rate substantially below what the top English teams are getting.

People think you need to compete to succeed in business. Yes, compete in squeezing every last penny of revenue. But all they want to do is make it LOOK like we are competing on the pitch.

All they're doing is riding the wave that is the Premier League's popularity in Asia etc. Our (former) rivals - Man C and U, Chelsea etc are doing much better than us. But our current rivals are actually Spurs, Everton, Villa etc.  We've sold two players alone for 125m. The club was bought for somewhere very roughly around 300m, with only 60m or so risked - the rest coming from the banks. PLUS there is turnover running into the 100s of millions. With the option to asset strip a squad including Sturridge,Sterling and lots more, its clear what the y are about.  Even if we're mid table, they'll have some canned bullshit public relations at the ready to see the ground is full.

Last Summer's window wasn't an "accident". It was completely deliberate. They sold a "mature asset" in Suarez. They slashed running costs of stars like Pepe, Dagger and Luis. And they bought cheaper waged assets that they think will appreciatein value. Ofcourse, if any of these new assets become enviable, they'll pick up the phone to their mates in Madrid, Chelsea and Barcelona - the only customers that REALLY matter to them.

They think they can sell us a worse product this year to get more money from us. Simple market forces.. in business. Simple greed tho, in football.

It won't change until WE the fans change.

It goes back to Rafa when he stated that this club is being run by men who don't know football, maybe the club need to appoint a buyer solely for player acquisitions & selling.

what like someone who knows what they are doing .That will never catch on mate

The fee is down to the club though mate, Lovren made it clear he wanted to come here yet we paid what's deemed to be the top end value?

But if no one else is really interested in Lovren then Saints can play hardball perhaps Jon?

We seem to pay what it takes, even if it is top end or over the odds, for players we want that no one else is really ingterested in but struggle to land a player as soon as another club is interested as well andfor some reason won't pay that 'top end' value to get the man.