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      The summer transfer conundrum

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      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #23: Oct 26, 2014 02:15:13 pm
      That's another thing with our club. We attach silly names to things in order to make out as if we're special, as if we do things better than anyone else, more professionally, more technically. But don't all clubs have a committee? They have scouts to analyse their potential, medical staff to evaluate past injuries, researchers to look at stats with the manager having the final say on who comes in. It seems to me we work no differently to anyone else. The jury is still out on whether Brendan will be a success or not but one thing he has proven is a level of arrogance. Anyone remember the whole "we're not going to do a Spurs because we're working towards a plan" statement? Eggs and faces come to mind about that now.

      its one of my  big annoyances the fact they try to reinvent the wheel  by just renaming a department or coaching staff's title.Football is still 11 versus 11 and its played on grass.
      bartman49
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #24: Oct 26, 2014 02:27:09 pm
      Looking now at who we bought and why is a lot easier with hindsight but you don't get to borrow them for 3 months before you buy my one big concern is Balo the rest it's far to early to say.

      The one player we could have bought and should have bought is Alex Song and it was a big mistake not going in for a defensive midfielder, I know he was interested in coming here and why BR did not go in for him is a mystery known only to himself.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #25: Oct 26, 2014 02:39:59 pm
      That's another thing with our club. We attach silly names to things in order to make out as if we're special, as if we do things better than anyone else, more professionally, more technically. But don't all clubs have a committee? They have scouts to analyse their potential, medical staff to evaluate past injuries, researchers to look at stats with the manager having the final say on who comes in. It seems to me we work no differently to anyone else. The jury is still out on whether Brendan will be a success or not but one thing he has proven is a level of arrogance. Anyone remember the whole "we're not going to do a Spurs because we're working towards a plan" statement? Eggs and faces come to mind about that now.
      Our community is primarily here to insure as little as possible is spent! If Brendan was given the opportunity to spend the money as he Really wanted too,  not as he was instructed to,  we might see a few world class players coming to the club.  I believe D'maria would be here if the money was available, if you want to back FSG fine,  but you better get use to a team with no world class players.
      reddebs
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #26: Oct 26, 2014 02:47:09 pm
      I guess it could have been worse, we could have spent our whole budget on Falcao. 

      £12m loan fee, £8m this year on wages, £60 to buy him outright next summer on a 4 year contract with another £32m on wages.  He's taking the PL by storm though........ one goal so far, now that's value for money  ;D
      MIRO
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #27: Oct 26, 2014 02:51:56 pm
      Then the whole fiasco over Remy and the fact Chelsea signed him just gives the impression that we do not know what we are doing.


      What was that bullshit about ?

      Borini didnt want to go and we couldnt afford Remy ?
      Who knows.. but we bought Box Of Frogs as a knee jerk to save face.
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #28: Oct 26, 2014 02:54:08 pm
      the problem is that not only have we not replaced Luis the footballer we have not replaced Luis the character.
      We seem to be a "quiet" team a bit timid we need another "big" character in the team
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #29: Oct 26, 2014 02:56:02 pm
      Don't be ridiculous. Every manager in the league has to work within a set budget and is expected to get value for money. Do you really think Sheikh Mansour or Abramovic say to their managers "please spend the most amount of money you can on players this season". They'd soon be bankrupt doing that.  I'm sick of seeing people try to blame FSG whilst absolving Rodgers of any blame. He's not blameless. He's part of the problem as much as FSG is.
      Explain to me why we don't buy world class players then!  Is that Brendan's fault?
      I'm pretty sure The Sheik and Roman are less concerned about profit than FSG. They do what it takes to make their clubs successful.
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #30: Oct 26, 2014 02:58:42 pm
      Explain to me why we don't but world class players then!  Is that Brendan's fault?


      my belief is that FSG don't buy world stars not because of the purchase price its because  if they stay for a number ofyears their sell on price is greatly reduced. If Luis had stayed another 3 seasons until he was approaching 30 I doubt we would have got £75mil for him.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #31: Oct 26, 2014 03:04:58 pm
      my belief is that FSG don't buy world stars not because of the purchase price its because  if they stay for a number ofyears their sell on price is greatly reduced. If Luis had stayed another 3 seasons until he was approaching 30 I doubt we would have got £75mil for him.
      Profit over success,  FSG's motto!
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #32: Oct 26, 2014 03:08:02 pm
      reddebs
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #33: Oct 26, 2014 03:09:03 pm
      my belief is that FSG don't buy world stars not because of the purchase price its because  if they stay for a number ofyears their sell on price is greatly reduced. If Luis had stayed another 3 seasons until he was approaching 30 I doubt we would have got £75mil for him.

      This may be true Walton but if he'd stayed and we'd won stuff (PL and/or CL) wouldn't we have made more than £75m?

      Makes you wonder whether somewhere within the FFP rules the money made from player sales is used differently than the money made from footballing success.
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #34: Oct 26, 2014 03:11:24 pm
      This may be true Walton but if he'd stayed and we'd won stuff (PL and/or CL) wouldn't we have made more than £75m?

      Makes you wonder whether somewhere within the FFP rules the money made from player sales is used differently than the money made from footballing success.

      remember when football used to be about going to Anfield and coming home with a sore throat.Simple times maybe we could reflect and take something from how well we did by keeping things simple
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #35: Oct 26, 2014 03:14:25 pm
      just seen ETO score a cracker would he not have been better than Balotelli
      reddebs
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #36: Oct 26, 2014 03:22:16 pm
      remember when football used to be about going to Anfield and coming home with a sore throat.Simple times maybe we could reflect and take something from how well we did by keeping things simple

      Life in general was simpler back then Walton but like life, football is all about the money now. 

      Whether we like it or not it was because of that simplistic approach that we failed to capitalise on our success when the money started rolling in and why we've struggled to compete with the money clubs since the PL began, despite still being one of the biggest clubs in world football.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #37: Oct 26, 2014 03:35:30 pm
      Let's compare the Summer transfer windows after the last two occasions we finished runners up in the league. Specifically the key transfers of those seasons and ones we can equate as being similar to the Suarez situation.

      Summer pre-09/10 season.

      Transfers out..Transfers in
      Sami Hyypiä ..Sotirios Kyrgiakos 
      Xabi Alonso..Alberto Aquilani
      Álvaro Arbeloa..Glen Johnson

      Summer pre-02/03 season.

      Transfers out..Transfers in
      Jørgen Nielsen..Patrice Luzi
      Nick Barmby..Alou Diarra
      Jari Litmanen..Bruno Cheyrou
      ...El Hadji Diouf


      The thing that jumps out initially is that on both occasions, we failed to bring sufficient talent in, failing to improve the strength of the first team. There's also parallels here as well. In 02/03 we had  an unpredictable goal keeper prone to making costly mistakes. In 09/10 we allowed talented players to leave the club and replaced them with players who where of substantially less quality. On both occasions, by the end of the season we failed to qualify for the Champions league.

      The problems with the transfers aren't down to the committee, nothing to do with FSG, nor are they a new phenomena, rather they've been plaguing us for years and the biggest failing for Brendan Rodgers in the Summer was the failure to learn from history and not fall in to the same trap two of his predecessors had.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #38: Oct 26, 2014 04:01:02 pm
      Thank goodness people didn't turn on Henderson as quick as they did Balotelli........oh wait....
      ;D

      Thank goodness people FSG didn't turn on Brendan as quick as they did the last manager, over 'wasted' money... they'll wait...  >:D
      Alfie2510
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #39: Oct 26, 2014 04:04:10 pm
      Easy to say this and that with hindsight
      Over the summer I felt we did ok. I thought most of the signings were good, I was happy we'd beefed up the squad.
      Felt we missed that one signing to really capture the imagination but we did try for Sanchez and it didn't happen.
      It's still far too early in my mind to make any judgements. We need to give this team room to breathe and develop, it will come together
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #40: Oct 26, 2014 04:31:21 pm
      It's still far too early in my mind to make any judgements. We need to give this team room to breathe and develop, it will come together
      Fair enough points Alfie; can I ask tho' - how much time will you be giving them, before making any judgements and when will be not too early to judge? (in your opinion, of course)

      Just to be clear - I think it's fair that people can "judge" on one of two separate levels. I think is reasonable to judge if a player is 'right' and 'proper' for what's needed here and now but it's unfair to judge them now on what they might become.

      Take, for example, Origi: it's perfectly fair, in my opinion, to say that he's not a signing which will help us now but he might (might) be brilliant next season or the season after. The same can be said/asked of all our new lads and that's at the crux of the matter and maybe the point of the topic. What do you reckon?  :confused-smiley-013:
      « Last Edit: Oct 26, 2014 04:45:33 pm by bad boy bubby »
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #41: Oct 26, 2014 04:58:27 pm

      What was that bullshit about ?

      Borini didnt want to go and we couldnt afford Remy ?
      Who knows.. but we bought Box Of Frogs as a knee jerk to save face.

      Wasn't the 'box of frogs' cost more than Remy was going to though?
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #42: Oct 26, 2014 05:04:54 pm
      I have to say that I genuinely struggle to see the joined up thinking and which way we approached the summer in terms of the transfer strategy, who was driving it, are there too many people with input?
      Now we can all look at it from different angles, we tend to, that's fine because when there isn't an actual answer in front of you then you tend to look for an answer yourself and usually you have a start point where you are having a pre conceived idea that you are simply looking to back up with evidence that is not evidence but a way to find something to support your own idea. We are all guilty of it, I am, you are..

      However this summer the longer I think about it it's confusing me more, so we knew we were losing Luis, at some point we knew, I personally believe we knew longer than is common knowledge, but even if we didn't them we should have been aware that it could happen and should have planned for that possibility.

      So at some point last season we would have had the thought that Luis may leave, we also for a fairly long period knew we were finishing in the top 4 at least, so our planning should have been for additional depth for the CL and then working on the need to replace Luis as an add on to that initial work.

      So they looked at the way we played, fast high press, fluid, counter.. With that in mind you need players to suit that style.. no?

      Did we try to do too much? Did we fill the wrong holes? With the wrong types? Did we ignore more pressing areas?

      So who we brought

      Lallana makes sense to that, can play in two or three positions in any formation that we go with and can play in our approach..

      Lovren, I could see the thought process but I wasn't but surely there were other options out there? As soon as you pay what we paid it puts such a massive pressure on the lad.. But I did see the thought process to bringing him in

      Moreno, definitely a good signing in terms of the way of we play, fits, we needed him.

      Can, not one probably any of us knew, I like the bits I've seen of him however we could possibly have done with a more established player in the middle of the park.. But in terms of a profile? No issue, but maybe one 'project' that we didn't need on top of the amount of players we brought in.

      Markovic, profile fits, but I can't help we had enough in his position, we have what, Coutinho, Lallana, Sterling, Studge if needed, young Ibe, I just don't see where he gets his minutes and with the price tag people expect something massive straight away, an impact every time.

      Manquillo, I just don't get the signing at all, Johnson, love him or hate him is going to play a lot of this games at full back, Flanno, you can't guess the injury when planning for the future, but I don't get the long term plan to bring a lad over who had played about 6 first team games prior and invest in developing him over your own? You can see live at games simply how raw he is, at the ground literally the other lads talk him through the games.. Just a bit of an odd signing.

      Lambert and Balotelli, I'm going to link them together simply in terms of the types of player are they are, neither are bad players, both are technically good players, but neither suit how we play, they don't fit the fluidity, high press, counter.. They are more static, target men, bring players in around them, can get goals but in a system that suits them, they look like fish out of water in our system, they look poor, we look a worse side and blame is being thrown around, but I simply can't get my head around why we signed this profile striker? Not one but two of them? When we signed Lambert we thought, well ok, a different option, late in games, in certain games, but then we lost Luis, didn't really replace him in the type he was and signed Balotelli to boot, so we then had one top striker who suited us but will always miss games, and two strikers that simply don't fit us.. No wonder we are struggling for fluidity.

      So who planned this, because it, definitely in the most important area of the field, both in terms of it's where you win games and the fact we were losing a Worldy in that area, because who ever planned it has fu**ed up, and hindered our season big time.

      We needed depth yes, but we have failed to bring in players in the right area and of the right profile, the forward line now in terms of suitability to our managers style looking for championship rather than champions league.. So who has done that? I genuinely don't believe that the manager would bring in so many players that didn't suit his approach, why? Why would he? I think there is too many cooks throwing ideas at the transfer approach, it's hurt us this year looking at it. But the whole club has got to take the blame for what's happened up front, we knew Suarez was off, why the f**k have we ended up with two target men to replace him? It's nothing short of irresponsible, we should have looked at profile and importance, had three or four options of Suarez types and no matter what he cost get one to soften what we lost... Even if it meant missing one of these potentials like Markovic who just can't get the minutes right now to develop, that 20 million should have been added to the 20 on the two target men Nd found someone who suits

      Biggest f**k up of recent times

      If I were Brendan now I'd " shrink " the squad again, use the players who suit to get us going again, we need Studge back ASAP obviously but I genuinely can't get my head around what we do transfer wise anymore.. Too much thinking about how to get the best down the line rather than what gets the best on a Saturday afternoon.

      I literally don't trust our scouting system and transfer policy anymore



      As much as Ibe is rough around the edges, I do wonder if we've made a mistake not giving him a chance this year.

      Usually talented lads from the academy know the ins and outs of how we will play, and as such, adapting to the game is far easier than bringing somone in who needs time to adapt.
      MIRO
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #43: Oct 26, 2014 05:05:14 pm
      Wasn't the 'box of frogs' cost more than Remy was going to though?

      There is that PD.
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #44: Oct 26, 2014 05:12:36 pm
      Wasn't the 'box of frogs' cost more than Remy was going to though?

      Is the box of frogs Italian cos I am confused now
      waltonl4
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      Re: The summer transfer conundrum
      Reply #45: Oct 26, 2014 06:04:39 pm
      Sounds more French to me. Spaghetti legs might be more accurate ;)

      so you mean he is pasta his best

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