Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles

      Read 6168 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      ayrton77
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****
      • Started Topic

      • 13,775 posts | 627 
      • © Established Quality Since 1977
      False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Nov 11, 2014 08:51:57 am
      £352 million spend in 60 months
      FFS !


      Just been looking on lfchistory.net, we could potentially field an XI worth £175.7 million:

      Mignolet - £9 million
      Johnson - £17.5 million
      Sakho - £15 million
      Lovren - £20 million
      Moreno - £12 million
      Allen - £15 million
      Henderson - £16 million
      Lallana - £25 million
      Markovic - £19.8 million
      Borini - £10.4 million
      Balotelli - £16 million

      Not all Brendan signings, so not a direct slight at the current manager, just highlighting the way our transfer dealings have been run over recent years.

      I just think that a starting XI worth that much should look pretty damn terrifying for the opposition, not so sure this one is!
      CoutinhoRed
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,353 posts | 103 
      Re: Re: Liverpool 1:2 Chelsea. In game and post match déjà vu.
      Reply #1: Nov 11, 2014 08:57:05 am
      Just been looking on lfchistory.net, we could potentially field an XI worth £175.7 million:

      Mignolet - £9 million
      Johnson - £17.5 million
      Sakho - £15 million
      Lovren - £20 million
      Moreno - £12 million
      Allen - £15 million
      Henderson - £16 million
      Lallana - £25 million
      Markovic - £19.8 million
      Borini - £10.4 million
      Balotelli - £16 million

      Not all Brendan signings, so not a direct slight at the current manager, just highlighting the way our transfer dealings have been run over recent years.

      I just think that a starting XI worth that much should look pretty damn terrifying for the opposition, not so sure this one is!

      Johnson and Hendo. Remainder and Brendan signings. What's his excuse?
      ayrton77
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****
      • Started Topic

      • 13,775 posts | 627 
      • © Established Quality Since 1977
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #2: Nov 11, 2014 09:05:12 am
      Johnson and Hendo. Remainder and Brendan signings. What's his excuse?

      Realised I was going to drag the match thread way off topic, so have split this.

      The idea was not to directly target Brendan or a specific manager, but the general policies of the club for a good while now.

      Refusing to push the boat out for the best player for a position, and wasting money on second or third best who more often than not doesn't work out.

      Getting bent over by other clubs and spending over the odds (I appreciate this sounds like a contadiction to the former point, but is actually a failure to target the correct players for the system).

      A general blundering, disorganised approach, where it seems we do not plan prior to a transfer window, and stumble through it based on which players seem to be available.

      It's hard to make excuses for the club, and I have no intention to. Changes need to be made because we are haemorraging money away year in, year out. It's sickening.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 20,172 posts | 4401 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #3: Nov 11, 2014 09:09:53 am
      Realised I was going to drag the match thread way off topic, so have split this.

      The idea was not to directly target Brendan or a specific manager, but the general policies of the club for a good while now.

      Refusing to push the boat out for the best player for a position, and wasting money on second or third best who more often than not doesn't work out.

      Getting bent over by other clubs and spending over the odds (I appreciate this sounds like a contadiction to the former point, but is actually a failure to target the correct players for the system).

      A general blundering, disorganised approach, where it seems we do not plan prior to a transfer window, and stumble through it based on which players seem to be available.

      It's hard to make excuses for the club, and I have no intention to. Changes need to be made because we are haemorraging money away year in, year out. It's sickening.

      We have been making the same mistakes now for as long as I can remember, poor to average signings.
      We now have a piss poor scouting system and not to mention the infamous transfer committee who need to be audited at the end of each window to see what value they have provided. Most would be sacked by now.

      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #4: Nov 11, 2014 09:16:45 am
      A general blundering, disorganised approach, where it seems we do not plan prior to a transfer window, and stumble through it based on which players seem to be available.

      Nail on head mate.

      From an excellent post too.

      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,564 posts | 3172 
      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #5: Nov 11, 2014 09:39:05 am
      The idea was not to directly target Brendan or a specific manager, but the general policies of the club for a good while now.

      Refusing to push the boat out for the best player for a position, and wasting money on second or third best who more often than not doesn't work out.
      Preaching to the choir here Ayrton, as you probably know (as I've be banging on about this for a long, long, time now... maybe too long).

      Personally, I get frustrated when, as I see it, people still can't grasp the very simple concept that it's ram-shackle, incoherent, ill-advised, transfer policies which lead to poor transfers - not any decisions made by managers.

      It's an issue highlighted by some fans who have bought into the FSG 'We won't be held to ransom' school of thought. Then... watch on as we sign, at best, second or third choice players and hope they can deliver the same goods as top quality players.

      Players who command top whack are able to do so for a reason - similarly, players who don't can't... for a reason.

      Some fans, thanks to some weird, inverted snobbery, business driven, dogma and some very tasty PR, somehow believe that it's better to "make superstars" (still gives me a titter that) than it is to buy them. That, somehow, buying five £7m players who'll never contribute, is more 'noble' than buying one £35m quality player. 

      The fact is; we [FSG] have wasted more money (football wise anyhow  ;)) sticking to this dogma than they would have otherwise.

      I agree that it's a false economy. [for the football team, if not what Brendan called the "money men"]  >:D
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #6: Nov 11, 2014 11:14:04 am
      I've been on about this (belatedly probably) for a couple of weeks now. It irks me a little that people write off the likes of Markovic (20), Moreno (22), Can (20), Manquillo (20), Origi (19) etc as being a waste of money. The simple fact of the matter is we won't actually know whether or not they've been a waste of money for probably AT LEAST another two years time. That's our transfer policy right there, these blokes have not only not been bought for this season or next season, they've probably been bought for the one after that.

      Is it the best way to go? I think you can take a punt on one or two of those types, but you need you "sure thing" signings to come and play, which ours haven't. Lallana has been fairly good, but Lovren, Lambert, Balotelli have been very poor. When you throw in the Hendersons, the Coutinho's the Sterlings and the Gerrards, you end up with a completely malfunctioning squad.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #7: Nov 11, 2014 11:22:00 am
      I've been on about this (belatedly probably) for a couple of weeks now. It irks me a little that people write off the likes of Markovic (20), Moreno (22), Can (20), Manquillo (20), Origi (19) etc as being a waste of money. The simple fact of the matter is we won't actually know whether or not they've been a waste of money for probably AT LEAST another two years time. That's our transfer policy right there, these blokes have not only not been bought for this season or next season, they've probably been bought for the one after that.

      Is it the best way to go? I think you can take a punt on one or two of those types, but you need you "sure thing" signings to come and play, which ours haven't. Lallana has been fairly good, but Lovren, Lambert, Balotelli have been very poor. When you throw in the Hendersons, the Coutinho's the Sterlings and the Gerrards, you end up with a completely malfunctioning squad.

      I appreciate what you say mate, but we finished 2nd last year and the last thing we really needed was a load of "prospects" that may or may not come good at some future date. What we needed was top quality players to help us now towards our goal of progress and the title.

      The loss of Suarez needed to be addressed either through quality team strengthening or by finding a suitable replacement. Squad strengthening was never really going to make up for his loss.

      At best this year we bought at the middle of the tree not the top and a few saplings aren't going to change that in a hurry.

      As Brendan said :-

      "For me, it's about planning," Rodgers told the club's official website. "We have the core of the squad now.

      "Two years ago, when I came in, I was looking to introduce new ideas but a lot of the players weren't there because of the European Championship.

      "That affected the start of the season. At least this summer we have the principles bedded in place and the players that come in will be the profile we want. It should be better for us this summer.

      "I don't want to put a figure on how many but I would rather have one or two absolute top players than seven that might not help us.

      "It's about the quality. We can't be going into the Champions League this year with doubts about players. We have to be going in knowing what the players' capacity to play is and their capabilities."

      We Brought in NINE not 2 or 7.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #8: Nov 11, 2014 11:33:33 am
      Just been looking on lfchistory.net, we could potentially field an XI worth £175.7 million:

      Mignolet - £9 million
      Johnson - £17.5 million
      Sakho - £15 million
      Lovren - £20 million
      Moreno - £12 million
      Allen - £15 million
      Henderson - £16 million
      Lallana - £25 million
      Markovic - £19.8 million
      Borini - £10.4 million
      Balotelli - £16 million

      Not all Brendan signings, so not a direct slight at the current manager, just highlighting the way our transfer dealings have been run over recent years.

      I just think that a starting XI worth that much should look pretty damn terrifying for the opposition, not so sure this one is!

      Look at the attack though. Strikers worth 10 to 20 million.
      Not that terrifying.

      Transfermarkt Valuations:

      United's 3 are listed @ 30, 40 & 50 million. RvP, Rooney, Falcao.

      City  are listed @ Aguero - 45 million, Silva - 40 million. 35 million for Mangala - A CB!

      Chelsea have Cesc - 40 million, Willian - 30 million, Hazard - 48 million, Costa 37 million.

      Football has moved on.
      Liverpool are not spending on ELITE players.
      HamannsTheMan
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,030 posts | 1973 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #9: Nov 11, 2014 11:50:02 am
      We've been the mugs in the transfer market for some time. Not only buying players, but selling them too.

      We signed Andy F***ing Carroll for £35m and people were still making excuses. 'We sold Torres for 50m so really Andy Carroll was free and we got an extra 15m'  lmao
      Beerbelly
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,983 posts | 2054 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #10: Nov 11, 2014 11:55:29 am
      We've been the mugs in the transfer market for some time. Not only buying players, but selling them too.

      We signed Andy f**king Carroll for £35m and people were still making excuses. 'We sold Torres for 50m so really Andy Carroll was free and we got an extra 15m'  lmao

      Embarrassing isn't it.

      Since the turn of the century (and before that even) we've had a general tendency to have our pants pulled down and reamed vigorously from behind, for one transfer reason or another.
      shabbadoo
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 29,420 posts | 4581 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #11: Nov 11, 2014 12:16:02 pm
      To be honest what little we spent on transfers under Moore's & Parry we did ok barring Diuof,Cheyrou,Diao,Traore under Houllier,Rafa spent well under them too,it's only when we changed hands did we see the greed of owners who were quick to sell on for a profit & replace with 'potential', that's hurt us the most.

      If the club would to spend £50 million of the Suarez money just say on Cavani, do they not believe that merchandise & sponsorships alone would re coup some of that outlay.

      JustMingle
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****

      • 982 posts | 62 
      • 6 Times
      Re: Re: Liverpool 1:2 Chelsea. In game and post match déjà vu.
      Reply #12: Nov 11, 2014 12:23:31 pm
      Johnson and Hendo. Remainder and Brendan signings. What's his excuse?

      isn't this all down to the "Transfer Committee "?
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 35,963 posts | 3944 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #13: Nov 11, 2014 12:32:43 pm

      Some fans, thanks to some weird, inverted snobbery, business driven, dogma and some very tasty PR, somehow believe that it's better to "make superstars" (still gives me a titter that) than it is to buy them. That, somehow, buying five £7m players who'll never contribute, is more 'noble' than buying one £35m quality player.


      Sorry about that mate, butchering an intuitive and unbelievably relevant comment but the irony in the above is just F***ing jaw-dropping.
      Those same uninformed fans who buy into the FSG programme/bullshit about searching for another Luis Suarez by buying ''potential'' in bulk, were no doubt fully supportive of the disastrous decision to sack the man who signed a global superstar for buttons.
      Double standards and bullshit, unfortunately a trait that we are forced to associate with the club's laughingly called saviours. 

      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,564 posts | 3172 
      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #14: Nov 11, 2014 12:33:34 pm
      Or owners. Let's just be abundantly clear about that.
      The policies are handed down by the owners... let's be abundantly clear about that. Not that I thought I'd need to but I can, if you want, post what John Henry stated was our transfer policy.

      Pointing out the past mistakes made by other owners in the transfer market in no F***ing way excuses the mistakes this lot are making NOW - and I'd be F***ing surprised if anyone was F***ing daft enough to try, to be honest.  :lmao:

      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,452 posts | 1735 
      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #15: Nov 11, 2014 12:40:07 pm
      so apart from money bags like chavski & City which other premiership club do you guys think have bought any better?

      At this present time id only say southampton.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,452 posts | 1735 
      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #16: Nov 11, 2014 12:41:32 pm
      To be honest what little we spent on transfers under Moore's & Parry we did ok barring Diuof,Cheyrou,Diao,Traore under Houllier,Rafa spent well under them too,it's only when we changed hands did we see the greed of owners who were quick to sell on for a profit & replace with 'potential', that's hurt us the most.

      If the club would to spend £50 million of the Suarez money just say on Cavani, do they not believe that merchandise & sponsorships alone would re coup some of that outlay.



      The money is there in January, but would Cavani come to us. It would appear we are trying to bring these players in, but they don't want to for various reasons.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 12,989 posts | 3124 
      • Trust The Universe
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #17: Nov 11, 2014 12:42:53 pm
      Maureen got it right in the match quotes.


      He strengthened the team not the squad.
      « Last Edit: Nov 11, 2014 02:20:21 pm by eurored »
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,452 posts | 1735 
      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #18: Nov 11, 2014 12:46:09 pm
      They had massive squad already, Russian money seen to that over the years.

      Our squad was filled up with u-19s last season.
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #19: Nov 11, 2014 12:57:10 pm
      Just been looking on lfchistory.net, we could potentially field an XI worth £175.7 million:

      Mignolet - £9 million
      Johnson - £17.5 million
      Sakho - £15 million
      Lovren - £20 million
      Moreno - £12 million
      Allen - £15 million
      Henderson - £16 million
      Lallana - £25 million
      Markovic - £19.8 million
      Borini - £10.4 million
      Balotelli - £16 million

      Not all Brendan signings, so not a direct slight at the current manager, just highlighting the way our transfer dealings have been run over recent years.

      I just think that a starting XI worth that much should look pretty damn terrifying for the opposition, not so sure this one is!

      But what you also have to factor in  is inflation. Look what Veron and Ferdinand moved to the Mancs for many years ago. Look what Ross MacCormack cost in the Championhip. Over a decade ago Mboro spent nearly 40m on 2 strikers.
      We've only EVER spent one big transfer fee acc to modern levels and that was Carroll (and even he was on a fraction of the Torres wages). A grotesque "Soccernomics" signing from Comolli and Henry.  I've got to wonder what happened with that transfer "off books". Did we really spend 35? Look how its rumoured we havent really "bought" Balotelli, and the whole thing is a 3rd party ownership mechanism.

      Anyway, look what we sold or lost as top players:-

      reina
      arbeloa
      agger
      hyypia
      carra
      masch
      alonso
      gerrard (ok still playing but a mere shadow)
      torres
      suarez
      maxi

      And the 2nd level:-
      aquilani
      mereiles
      keane
      carroll
      downing
      kuyt

      Some of these were even kicked out on frees, such is the obsession with lowering wages.

      Only Sturridge is a stand out amongst our current recruits. F***ing dire really!

      Overall, its now a team without leaders, without "winners", without experience, without the top level quality.
      Up against a real team, we just look like kids, because lets face it, much of the team ARE.
      Hollywood Balls
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,802 posts | 469 
      • PhD, School of Hard Knocks, University of Life.
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #20: Nov 11, 2014 01:02:25 pm
      It's as though people haven't learnt from the carroll transfer that just spending money achieves nothing but a big hole in the bank balance.


      United have blown a wad of money on top talent - was it worth it when you consider their results against Moyes's reign? City have sunk a billion pounds into their squad - how are they getting on? Even Arsenal have been blowing money on big name transfers  - when you look at who they have been playing can you really say they are doing much better than we are?

      It's about targeting the RIGHT players not how much money you spend.
      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,564 posts | 3172 
      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #21: Nov 11, 2014 01:09:35 pm
      I've been on about this (belatedly probably) for a couple of weeks now. It irks me a little that people write off the likes of Markovic (20), Moreno (22), Can (20), Manquillo (20), Origi (19) etc as being a waste of money.
      We've touched on this before tho' mick and surely you can see it's less about people writing those individuals off than it is a policy of buying players who are easily paid in the hope (just like you are doing) that maybe, in one or two seasons, they might just come good.

      It's not about having a punt when you've just finished second and have the added bonus of an additional £75m coming in.

      Back in May Brendan (to my mind anyhow) made it clear the way he saw the Summer's transfer window going...

      "The players we brought in last summer were young players and players to cover. This season we need to bring in starters..."

      There are many more quotes Mick but you get my drift...

      The past is gone; the future might never happen - Brendan saw what was needed - quality starters now but somewhere, somehow, between then and September, all that changed. Why?  :-\
      « Last Edit: Nov 11, 2014 01:48:17 pm by bad boy bubby »
      Beerbelly
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,983 posts | 2054 
      Re: False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles
      Reply #22: Nov 11, 2014 01:32:32 pm
      so apart from money bags like chavski & City which other premiership club do you guys think have bought any better?

      At this present time id only say southampton.

      Its about buying smart, not as easy when you don't have mega bucks
      but managers/clubs up and down the country in all leagues have to do the same. With or without constraints, unfortunately some will never get that.

      This spin off thread is typical of the fsg one. I.e when results don't go
      well some have to "apportion" blame in the meantime.

      The reality is what it is and is played out in circular logic on forums like this.

      Quick Reply