False Economy - A Liverpool Transfer Shambles

It's about targeting the RIGHT players not how much money you spend.

Absolutely spot on.  I don't care how much someone costs - but are they any good?

On getting the right players in, I don't think the manager is a big enough draw to get top talent over some other managers in the league.  Look at who Utd signed , with no CL(so big names won't go apparently), gash last year but LVG as manager - players want to play for him.

don't need to go any further than the title of the thread fuckinh shambles

Well somehow I don't think Messi will be up for sale for 3shillings and sixpence.

Every wannabee, every bullshitter who owns a club will try and dupe the fans into saying some 8m signing was the "bargain of the century" and is the "Ethiopian Pele", the "Chilean Maradona" or some such sh*te.

The reality is that to compete you need to sell sh*te, keep quality and BUY quality. Quality costs.

To say "we're cleverer than everyone else, we'll win trophies by spending f**k all" is insulting the fans, and treating everyone like idiots.

PS I notice Hollywood Balls is adhering to the party line as usual....

Evidently Ronaldo and Bale etc have been disasters in his book because they cost more money than Andy Ponytail Carroll. Whereas Ross MacCormack is obviously one of the great names of world football..

I appreciate what you say mate, but we finished 2nd last year and the last thing we really needed was a load of "prospects" that may or may not come good at some future date. What we needed was top quality players to help us now towards our goal of progress and the title.

The loss of Suarez needed to be addressed either through quality team strengthening or by finding a suitable replacement. Squad strengthening was never really going to make up for his loss.

At best this year we bought at the middle of the tree not the top and a few saplings aren't going to change that in a hurry.

As Brendan said :-

"For me, it's about planning," Rodgers told the club's official website. "We have the core of the squad now.

"Two years ago, when I came in, I was looking to introduce new ideas but a lot of the players weren't there because of the European Championship.

"That affected the start of the season. At least this summer we have the principles bedded in place and the players that come in will be the profile we want. It should be better for us this summer.

"I don't want to put a figure on how many but I would rather have one or two absolute top players than seven that might not help us.

"It's about the quality. We can't be going into the Champions League this year with doubts about players. We have to be going in knowing what the players' capacity to play is and their capabilities."

We Brought in NINE not 2 or 7.

Not sure which of Brendan's quotes we can really stick to because he's certainly laid out some contradictions over the last couple of years, but that bolded statement tells me that he isn't really in control of transfers because we did nothing like bringing in top quality players (unless he's referring to Lallana and Lovren). I would qualify Lallana as a top quality player and yet he doesn't get a kick against Chelsea.

So it seems to me that somewhere along the line we are being hamstrung on transfers, and if I had to guess it's got to be sent up the flagpole to the top. The owners aren't interested in splashing big money on "elite" players, rather hoping that they can find diamonds in the rough and relying on Brendan to do just that.

As long as we are operating under those circumstances, there will be no margin for error in tactics and man management from the boss or in effort given by the players. And so far this season, we've been far from perfect there which is why we sit where we sit in my humble opinion.

Absolutely spot on.  I don't care how much someone costs - but are they any good?

Although it's only really just a sound-bite; a throw away line with no real substance 'signing the RIGHT players' is a hard one to call alright.

Like you (and unlike FSG) I don't care how much a player costs mate - I leave that to the armchair accountants who like 'cheap' but... any idiot can work out that you can't have it both ways.

If the RIGHT player becomes available [just to be clear: although others may have a different definition - the "RIGHT" player is a player who will improve the team, in my opinion] you sign him. You don't come up with some sh*t that he's not the RIGHT player simply because he's looking to be paid the going rate.

Remembering, of course, that we actually had big money this season.  

Put simply (and this is where I differ from the accountants in the mist) - a player doesn't become the RIGHT player simply because he's easier to pay.

That said and appreciating how difficult it can be to pick a player up who'll be good enough; apart from the obvious, you must look at any indicators to their ability that you can. Most top quality players go for a big fee and command big wages - lesser quality players tend not to.

That maxim might assist but even if it doesn't; you could always look to your recent past and that of other, more successful teams to see if you can figure out the more successful route.

Or... or... you could ignore all that, buy four or five easily paid, cheap, players (for the price of one top quality player) and gamble that they come good [or hedge your bets, limit your liabilities and spread the FINANCIAL risk if you prefer]. Hmm... "hedge".

Our football team, if not our accounts, has suffered from this dogma - it's weird that football fans don't get that. 

Maureen got it right in the match quotes.


He strengthened the team not the squad.

Corrected:

HE strengthened the team not the squad.

May have been a dig but a truism.

It does seem we never learn as it's not just these owners and our current manager that has fallen into this trap but plenty of previous ones too.  We haven't bought or been able to attract the absolute creme de la creme of players since the 80's, yes we've had the odd ones who became that but never enough to get us and keep us at the top.  Our transfer policy, general scouting and overall recruitment has been abysmal for over 25 years.  It needs to change but I don't see that happening for at least a couple of seasons and these are my reasons. 

Our owners have been here for just over 4 years, they set a clear recruitment policy from the start, spend big on potential but with low wages, allow them time to develop whilst improving their contracts as their contribution to the team increases.  They also went about getting rid of the high earners who weren't contributing (injuries or lack of form), were approaching the end of their careers or who wanted out.  They told us it was a medium to long term plan of 5 years plus.

There are however a few things that have put us back with this plan.  Firstly they intended for Roy to complete that season before bringing in their own man who would implement this plan but as we all know he had to go earlier than expected (for them, not for us).  Secondly they brought Kenny in to see us through to the summer then decided to give him a permenant contract only to ditch that idea a season later.  They then got their man in Brendan but we were already 2 seasons into that 5 year plan.  Do they see it that way or do they see it, like I do, that the 5 year plan only started when Brendan arrived?

The success of Brendans first January transfer window lulled them into a false sense of security, 2 excellent young talents, for very little money who made an immediate impact on the team and the results started to follow.  We had limited success with last summers signings, Sakho and Toure played a bit part in our amazing season with only Migs playing every game.  The youngsters brought in had no impact whatsoever but our own Academy players had a big part to play.  Both Raheem and Flanno secured regular starting berths whilst both Danny and Cou continuing their form of the previous 6mths.

Fast forward to this summer, whether they intended or expected Luis to be sold we/they were in a position, with increased revenues, to be able to significantly add to the squad.  Most of us were reasonably happy with our summer transfers with the exception of Balo who most could see didn't fit our normal playing style and it seemed a big blow that we didn't get Remy who would have fit.  None of us expected Danny to be out for so long and none of us expected our form to be so bad.  Those players who had been magnificent last season have failed to maintain it, never mind improve on it.  This happens with young players, inconsistency is normal, their pits and troughs can be extreme and last longer than more experienced players.

As a result we are slipping further and further away from where we want and need to be, with no signs of it changing and everyone pinning their hopes on Danny coming back fit and firing to get us out of the mire.  We also have the worry, that many have expressed, that these fine young players will want to F**k off if we fail to keep up a challenge for honours and compete in the biggest competitions and so the cycle begins again.

Question now is will our owners continue down this path if the above cycle happens?  If Danny or Raheem or Cou or Stevie have another season like the last one but fail to have anything to show for it again and decide to get out whilst they can.  Maybe they hadn't thought this might happen before we got the best out of them?  I don't know if this happens in baseball or if players stay put unless the team offload them? 

They say they want to build and maintain a winning squad but you can't build anything if every year one or more of the foundation blocks are removed and it's replaced with a lego brick.  Will they have a rethink if this seasons a failure?  Will they decide that the failure is down to the Manager and remove him too, setting us back even further?  Or will they realise it's their own policy and that it needs changing?

I hate to say it but after believing they wanted to bring stability back to the Club, they are in danger of destabilising it even further.

in a way you're right, it's one thing we have not had for a while now is spending power so credit must go to our owners or should I say custodians to go a get the sponsorships that bring in a lot of cash, it's how we spend it that's important looking at the last window I thought at the time we did ok but with hindsight it has not turned out anything like ok, we are dreadfully short of quality right down the spine of the team Lovren has been a disaster I like our two full backs but like all 20yr olds they need rest and a lot of looking after otherwise you get burnout further down the line, I thought we spent wisely on Can and Markovich both will come good in time but again being twenty the same applies to them which says it all well and good buying young players but they need quality experienced players around them to bring them on and that's where as a club we have fallen down. I do not want to mention our attacking players without Daniel we have been nothing short of woeful I know he's due back soon so lets hope once this break is gone we'll come back a much better team, fingers crossed.

The club did try to buy the best in the summer but there was always others willing to dwarf what we pay and that's the catch we are in competing with the likes of MC,Chavs and MU them three can blow us out the water in terms of wages, catch 22 where we have enough coming in to compete to purchase the big players but not enough to pay in wages. Maybe at this time and for the next few windows we should only buy one or two quality ones and slowly build and in two yrs or less we will have a team to stay with the likes of chelsea and others, I'm sure that's part of the aim of the owners and who knows this time next year we could be competing with the best of them, and like the song says keep hope in your heart and you'll never walk alone.

Every team has its share of transfer blunders. Madrid spent big money on Jonathan Woodgate, Royston Drenthe, Sergio Canales, Lassana Diara, Fernando Gago, Kakadu, and Robinho in recent years. Chelsea have dumped countless pounds on fllops like Torres, Schevcenko, Mutu, Crespo, etc. The scum have wasted money on Bebe, Anderson, Nani, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, etc. Every top club is bound to make expensive mistakes.

The reality is that about half of our business this summer looks pretty good, while the other half is pretty dire. If you compare the transfer of Moreno to Luke Shaw for 30M or Filipe Luis for 15M then Moreno looks pretty good. Emre Can for 10M looks an absolute steal when compared to 30M Fellaini or  15M on Jack Rodwell. Even 20M on Markovic doesn't look too bad when you think the scum dumped a similar amount on Zaha, Chelsea dumped a similar amount on Salah, City a similar amount on Milner, and Arsenal a similar amount on both the Ox and Podolski. We probably overpaid for Lallana, but arsenal overpaid for Ozil and United overpaid for Herrera.

The point is that transfer dealings are always going to be a mixed bag, and I'm mostly pleased with our dealings this summer. Swap Lovren and Balotelli for Agger and Tevez and we look a fair bit better on paper. Just need to learn from mistakes and be better moving forward....

According to this, published last year, we have outspent United in the Transfer market and have ourselves only been outspent by Chelsea and City. No idea if its Net or Gross spending but it's disturbing that for all he money we've spent, we've had very little to show for it. Forget new owners, new manager, new back room staff, what we need is someone who knows what he's doing in the transfer market in charge of our signings.

My take on this subject is other premier league clubs have had similar transfer failures re spurs.
part of the problem is soon as liverpool are interested  in a player the  price jumps.when liverpool sell a player its the reverse. examples reina
 2.5 mill agger 4 mill.
Then take into account the culture of the life of a pro soccer star. first priority is there lifestyle and ego. just read in the papers how they party at 3 am. the fortunes of the club are of little concern.
How many give 100 per cent week in week out like saurez some weeks they are passengers.
The odds are the same as going to the racetrack ,paying 20 million does not  guarantee a gem. wouldn't like brendans job even if i was paid big bucks. 

I wish we'd stop bottling out of the first choice signings.
Seems to be a repeating situation of signing 2nd and 3rd choices.

Sanchez.
Costa.
Mkhitaryan.
Willian.
Salah.

Surely one of them and the wages they are on is worth more than two punts on potential for the same money.
That's why the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona will stay where they are. Liverpool/Dortmund polish the gem,
Real/Barca/Bayern pay for the finished product.

Its all about the spine the experts tell us.
So, Lawrence,Yeats,Hunt, Clemence,Thomo,Keegan, Grobbelar,Hansen,Rush, Now Mignolet,Lovren,Balotelli.
Even Dudek,Carragher,Baros was a million times better than our current spine.
I watched the 08/09 season stuff before and Van De Saar had 11 consecutive clean sheets.
Get the spine right and other stuff will fall into place

Its all about the spine the experts tell us.
So, Lawrence,Yeats,Hunt, Clemence,Thomo,Keegan, Grobbelar,Hansen,Rush, Now Mignolet,Lovren,Balotelli.
Even Dudek,Carragher,Baros was a million times better than our current spine.
I watched the 08/09 season stuff before and Van De Saar had 11 consecutive clean sheets.

Get the spine right and other stuff will fall into place

Agreed 100%... and work from the back.



Then.

Four proven strikers so they can be rotated. 'arry as always done it. Ferguson did it.

We have four.
One injured and three (proven ?!) that haven't scored at all  from the start of the season.
Laughable.

I can see both sides if I'm honest. You listen to Brendan talk about wanting just two or three top players at the end of last season to really improve the team and then you look at our actual business and you have to ask the question 'did he get what he really wanted?' The answer would appear to be no. BUT on the flip side, it does feel like a 'get out of jail free' card in many ways to me. The club have still spent good money on a lot of players and simply put, the product on the pitch does not reflect the money spent in the summer. In particular, I look at the back four, that's a lot f money that has been splashed on two centre-halves over the past two windows, In fact there can't be many that have gone for much bigger fees over the last few years but we don't look any better at the back. Lovren is a bag of nerves and I don't think I have seen Sakho win a clean header since he has been at the club.

But maybe Brendan wanted a player like Fabregas but was told no, too premium, too high wages, not the profile were looking for. I guess we won't find out until he writes his book in ten years.

I can see both sides if I'm honest. You listen to Brendan talk about wanting just two or three top players at the end of last season to really improve the team and then you look at our actual business and you have to ask the question 'did he get what he really wanted?' The answer would appear to be no. BUT on the flip side, it does feel like a 'get out of jail free' card in many ways to me. The club have still spent good money on a lot of players and simply put, the product on the pitch does not reflect the money spent in the summer. In particular, I look at the back four, that's a lot f money that has been splashed on two centre-halves over the past two windows, In fact there can't be many that have gone for much bigger fees over the last few years but we don't look any better at the back. Lovren is a bag of nerves and I don't think I have seen Sakho win a clean header since he has been at the club.

But maybe Brendan wanted a player like Fabregas but was told no, too premium, too high wages, not the profile were looking for. I guess we won't find out until he writes his book in ten years.

This is why I'll never consider him to be "one of us".

Compare what he does to what Rafa does. Its no surprise they didn't even speak to Rafa. Even tho he was living at home in Liverpool at the time, with his family. Rafa had values, he had bollocks, he had sublime ability, but most important he wouldn't have us the fans being fu**ed about.

If Rodgers wants us to support him, he can start by supporting US.

This is why I'll never consider him to be "one of us".

Compare what he does to what Rafa does. Its no surprise they didn't even speak to Rafa. Even tho he was living at home in Liverpool at the time, with his family. Rafa had values, he had bollocks, he had sublime ability, but most important he wouldn't have us the fans being fu**ed about.

If Rodgers wants us to support him, he can start by supporting US.

Out of curiosity...what has he done to NOT support us?

This is why I'll never consider him to be "one of us".

Compare what he does to what Rafa does. Its no surprise they didn't even speak to Rafa. Even tho he was living at home in Liverpool at the time, with his family. Rafa had values, he had bollocks, he had sublime ability, but most important he wouldn't have us the fans being fu**ed about.

If Rodgers wants us to support him, he can start by supporting US.

That's a bit OTT for me i'm afraid. At the end of the day this is all speculation.

Stamping your feet, complaining in the press etc might win a few friends amongst the fans (I am guessing you would approve) BUT it wouldn't necessarily change or help anything.

Maybe Brendan is working with one hand tied behind his back and doesn't really stand a chance with theses owners but then maybe the likes of Lovren and Sakho are his idea of top top defenders and he is in fact a lousy judge of a player. We don't really know for sure.

I wish we'd stop bottling out of the first choice signings.
Seems to be a repeating situation of signing 2nd and 3rd choices.

Sanchez.
Costa.
Mkhitaryan.
Willian.
Salah.

Surely one of them and the wages they are on is worth more than two punts on potential for the same money.
That's why the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona will stay where they are. Liverpool/Dortmund polish the gem,
Real/Barca/Bayern pay for the finished product.

The first two on that list have been worth the money - have the last three?

The first two on that list have been worth the money - have the last three?

Have we signed anyone who has performed better in there positions? Scratch that, forget Salah because he's been a complete waste of money but Mkhitaryan and Willian would have added a sizable more strength to the squad IMO. Seem like the sort of players who would flourish for us.

it seems we are ready to pay 20 mil for winston reid, weird

"Arsenal Must Target West Ham Defender Winston Reid in January Transfer Window"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2247238-arsenal-must-target-west-ham-defender-winston-reid-in-january-transfer-window

"Arsenal Must Target West Ham Defender Winston Reid in January Transfer Window"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2247238-arsenal-must-target-west-ham-defender-winston-reid-in-january-transfer-window

Man United in for him as well, according to other reports.