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      May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.

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      bigmick
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      May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Nov 19, 2014 10:58:37 am
       There's been much talk on here about money being "wasted", "p!ssed away" and the like. People are basing those assumptions on a fairly small sample size (14 league games) and are talking with absolute certainty that so and so was "a complete waste of money". I've argued that we won't know for a while yet, but it's time for me to be honest here and say exactly why I'm more confident than most that many of them will come very good indeed.

       I'm going to start with a fairly controversial point. Dejan Lovren will in my opinion be recognised as one of the best centre halves in the league within the next twelve months. I think he's an excellent player who is going through a confidence crisis (much like the rest of the team really), but I've seen enough to be convinced not a penny of his 20 million quid fee was wasted. Actually, in my opinion we nicked him. He's good in the air, decisive in the tackle, has a turn of pace and uses the ball well. At the moment our defensive unit is a shambles and with it his confidence has crumbled, but he is strong enough to turn it around both for him and them. He's the best centre half we've had at the club for many a year in my view and I don't say that lightly. I've a hunch Sakho will be the better partner for him with his no nonsense approach, and I'm also convinced if he were allowed to get rid of it up the field when pressured he'd look better, but Lovren will come good. When? any game now is the answer. He's such a good player in my opinion that I always expect him to play well and am surprised when he doesn't, he'll probably be MOM against Palace on Sunday. Failing that, VERY SOON people will change their opinion of him, I'd be surprised if it's not before Christmas if he continues to be selected.

       Next up is Adam Lallana . I thought we overpaid for this lad, but having seen him and what you get these days for a similar fee I'm not so sure. He really has lovely feet, puts a good shift in and has a goal/assist in him all day long. To me the hardest thing for Adam is that he missed all of the pre season and the first month of the season through injury. Given it's only November that's a lot, and I don't think he's quite up to speed yet but he is getting there. An absolute quality player who is easy on the eye, he'll be a Liverpool player for the next five seasons at least.

        Emre Can is another player who's career at the club so far has been blighted by injuries. Not only that, he's been asked to come into a misfiring team and he's 20 years old. He was out for six weeks with an injury, but he's come back and is surely ahead of schedule in that he's now pressing for a place in the first choice team (he'd get in mine). Didn't look out of place in the Bernabau or against the best team in the Premiership, and anyone who any experience of how much young blokes grow between 20 and 24 will know this lad is going to be a real unit. Seems to have a turn of pace and a bit of on the ball arrogance about him, I like him a lot. Potential future captain, and at 10 million quid a snip.

        Alberto Moreno is a typical modern fullback in that he is a bomber going forward but can't actually defend. Fortunately you can teach one but not the other, and he's very good at the bit which is simply a natural gift. I see him as a young Patrice Evra without the c***ish tendencies, and I think that by this time next season people will be putting plans together to stop him damaging them going forward. Over a reasonable distance this kid is like lightening, and I'm not yet totally convinced he'll end up playing at full back. At 12 million quid though to me he looks like a very good buy indeed and could develop into a superstar.

        Rickie Lambert . I liked the idea behind the buy, but it looks like we got him 18 months too late.

        Lazar Markovic . A boy in a mans body, Markovic is IMHO the signing with the biggest potential upside of all. If he uses the pace, power, dribbling skill and trickery he has he could quite easily become a World Class player. At the moment he's a mile away from that, but you have to remember that players such as Markovic have never looked good in a poor team (which right now is what we are). To flourish he needs to be in a good side who have teams on the back foot, a good side who isn't overly concerned about losing possession. Stick him in the Sunderland team and you'd have Kevin Kilbanne reincarnated, put him in the Chelsea team and he'd look an apprentice monster. He still needs to discover what type of player he is going to be does Lazar, but he really could be anything. 20 million quid is a gamble alright, but waste of money? This one we won't know until the end of next season. If the gamble comes off though, this kid could be phenomenal. In the meantime, we won't see too much of him for the rest of this season I don't think, just cameos and cups.

        Mario Balotelli . I was all for this signing too, and I was wrong. It hasn't worked out for him or us, but it's time for a bit of pragmatism here. Brendan will have worked out by now that the sooner he can replace Merio and the Italian f*cks off into the sunset then the better it'll be for everyone. IN THE MEANTIME THOUGH, we ought to speed that process up by while we have him, playing to his strengths. Lets hit him from distance more often and play the way HE wants us to play (I know it's annoying but I'm convinced we'll get more points that way). It'll only be until we get a credible striker that suits our style before we can jib him off.

        Origi . I've barely seen him play, but you can be sure that at 19 years old he will improve. We'll see.

        Xavier Manquillo . On loan, and I quite like the young fella. He's a bit of a throwback in that he can actually defend but looks like a defender when he goes forward. I'd have him in front of Johnson right now given the choice, and he's a tidy player for a kid who's 20 years old.


       So there's this seasons signings off the top of my head. I think they definitely will come good, and I think they come good quick enough for us to get into the top four this season. I know many don't agree with me there and talk about percentages of wins, how many hundredths of a percentage point goals per game we need to score and other such nonsense, but little in football changes over the years. In each match, to get three points you need to put the ball in the onion bag more often than they do to get the three points. If they don't score any you only need one, if they score four you need five and so on. Usually the team which prevails is the one which has the most character, desire, will and talent, although not necessarily in that order. As our new people begin to find their feet, and as Stevie, Coutinho, Hendo and the like begin to find theirs, we'll find our character again. When we do we'll start to win, a lot. When that happens we'll be a good team again, and in this league we are comfortably IMHO amongst the four best teams, therefore we will finish in the top four. This is where you heard it first. 


         
       
      waltonl4
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #1: Nov 19, 2014 11:13:15 am
      To be fair Mick you still believe in father Christmas and the Tooth fairy.
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #2: Nov 19, 2014 11:13:44 am
      Good OP.

      I agree that the signings have a good chance of returning their value - in my view though Lovren is slow and we have bought Lambert 2.5 years too late.

      Origi could be very exciting - Belgium left Benteke and Lukaku on the bench so that he could play - both those players were recntly being talked about in terms of 20-30 million.

      The question is whether they will all come into form in time to save our season.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #3: Nov 19, 2014 11:21:27 am
      Even if they come good in time, it's time wasted when we should have been signing players to make immediate impact. After all, that's supposedly what the Summer was about but what never materialised. You can try to be positive all you like and perhaps the players will come good over the next few years but no matter which way you look at it, no matter how you try to spin it in to a positive, the Summer transfer window was a disaster for the club and we wasted millions on mediocre talent, failing to build upon our most successful season in six years.
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #4: Nov 19, 2014 11:28:55 am
      It's not a disaster yet and we have a lot of cause for optimism.

      Once Gerrard and Skrtel leave we have an incredibly young team with some big talents who will beplaying with one another for the next few years.

      If the new signings can give us a realistic shot at 4th this season and a decent cup run I'd be happy.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #5: Nov 19, 2014 11:59:29 am
      It's not a disaster yet and we have a lot of cause for optimism.

      Once Gerrard and Skrtel leave we have an incredibly young team with some big talents who will beplaying with one another for the next few years.

      If the new signings can give us a realistic shot at 4th this season and a decent cup run I'd be happy.

      Look at the league position. Look at the personnel available to us. Look at this season's performances. Then compare all of that to last year. We're a step down. We may have more depth but that depth is not strong enough. Had we brought in a mixed bag of potential and proven talent which we had the money to do so, we'd be up there with Chelsea who for all their faults, know what they're doing in the transfer market. We may be within touching distance of the top four but that's only because of the problems at United, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal and City and even if we do somehow manage to finish in the top four, it will be in spite of the Summer transfers, not because of them.
      waltonl4
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #6: Nov 19, 2014 12:02:18 pm
      We have spent a sh*t load and yet we have no strike force to speak of.How can we possibly think of getting into the top 4
      HScRed1
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #7: Nov 19, 2014 12:09:46 pm
      We have improved the squad no doubt but as has been said many times before the 1st team is weaker than last year.
      After our tremendous performance last year the priority should have been the 1st team.
      No doubt the players we have signed are good but are they better than what we already had, not in my opinion. We have done a like for like without any great improvement
      Lallana - Coutinho
      Markovic - Raheem/ Ibe
      Lovren - Sakho
      The major mistake has been up front and not adequately having enough quality to never mind replace Suarez but anticipate that Sturridge will guarantee being injured.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #8: Nov 19, 2014 12:17:46 pm
      It's a simple formulae for measurement of whether you've improved between seasons. Would last year's first eleven beat this year's first eleven if they played against each other in a match? Right now last year's first eleven would win the match in double figures. We didn't sign bad players, we just failed to sign great players that would have improved us and allowed us to kick on.
      JustMingle
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #9: Nov 19, 2014 12:26:55 pm
      Look at the league position. Look at the personnel available to us. Look at this season's performances. Then compare all of that to last year. We're a step down. We may have more depth but that depth is not strong enough. Had we brought in a mixed bag of potential and proven talent which we had the money to do so, we'd be up there with Chelsea who for all their faults, know what they're doing in the transfer market. We may be within touching distance of the top four but that's only because of the problems at United, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal and City and even if we do somehow manage to finish in the top four, it will be in spite of the Summer transfers, not because of them.

      As much I still believe we have a decent chance of the top 4, 5times is bang on... it more to do with the rest of league being sh1te rather than us being great

      We knew we would have to take a step backwards to go forwards but I think we should of bought 1 less potential signing and blew 30m on a worldy... the biggest frustration is watching Chelsea buy the minimum numbers but the highest quality.  Granted we all knew we needed a bigger squad but we also needed to replace, as best we could, Luis Saurez.

      The biggest faux pas of the transfer window was clearly Mario. £16m for someone of average ability up front is shocking. While I accept Origi will come good, if we’d of not bought both him and Mario we’d of had £25m to go get a top quality established striker/playmaker of game winning capabilities. Even the most positive of supporters knew Sturridge would be out for some period of time and we couldn’t rely on Lambert or Borini to deputise. I could really go on about the debacle which is Mario Balotelli but that’s what got me permanently banned from RAWK apparently so I will stay (relatively) mooted on him.

      In summary I think one more big buy is needed in Jan – plus a slice of luck – and I’ll think we’ll nick a CL place
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #10: Nov 19, 2014 12:29:53 pm
      There is a lot of blind optimism in this post. I mean no disrespect, but we are clutching at straws here. Before many of these players do actually come good, can we expect to see them playing their trade elsewhere?

      As for Adam Lallana being nearly as pricey as Cesc Fabregas...

      Hsc - we have improved as a squad? Really?
      s@int
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #11: Nov 19, 2014 12:32:01 pm
      For me our summer signings have been poor. We finished 2nd last season and I hoped that the players brought in would have been bought to build on that "success" rather than investments for the future with a couple of decent players tagged on.

      To me we have sacrificed a reasonable chance of success today for the "promise" of success at some later date yet to be decided upon.... maybe.

      As Paul Simon almost said "we have squandered our success for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises. All lies and jests, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

      I am just waiting for Brendan to come out with the oft repeated famous lines of death...(insert player of your choice) wasn't bought for the next few weeks but the next 5 years, or another good one....he is a player we are signing for five years, not for five matches.

      The good thing about selling people the future is that it means you never need to deliver anything today and as we all know tomorrow never comes.

      Anyway enough of the negative.

      I think Lallana is a good player, a bit too similar to what we already have but a good player.

      Moreno is a decent player now and I think he will develop into a better player.

      Lovren while not the player we needed will improve, not quite the dominant player I expected/hoped for up to now.

      Balotelli and Lambert  not quite sure why we bought them apart from their "bargain price," they don't really suit our style and Brendan has always insisted he didn't want or need a plan B.

      Can, Markovic, Origi  may one day come good .... bought for 4 years not for four weeks :)


      For me sadly not the players we needed to build on our success and for the most part not even players we needed.... damn, back to being negative again now!
      HScRed1
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #12: Nov 19, 2014 12:32:36 pm
      There is a lot of blind optimism in this post. I mean no disrespect, but we are clutching at straws here. Before many of these players do actually come good, can we expect to see them playing their trade elsewhere?

      As for Adam Lallana being nearly as pricey as Cesc Fabregas...

      Hsc - we have improved as a squad? Really?

      Yes we have more depth if you mean quality no and that was the point of my post.

      insideanfield
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #13: Nov 19, 2014 12:41:38 pm
      Nice to see a positive point.

      However, the summer should have been about improving the team with better players to kick on further and challenge for the title; not buy young talents who MAY come good in a few years time.
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #14: Nov 19, 2014 12:42:57 pm
      Yes we have more depth if you mean quality no and that was the point of my post.

      You only need a 23/24 man squad.

      I don't think Lovren, Manquillo, Lallana, Markovic, Lambert or Balotelli offer more than Coates, Ilori, Wisdom, Suso, Alberto, Ibe, and Aspas respectively. If we had kept the latter here and missed out on the former, I don't think we'd be any worse off regardless of the congested fixture list.
      JustMingle
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #15: Nov 19, 2014 12:48:03 pm
      Nice to see a positive point.

      However, the summer should have been about improving the team with better players to kick on further and challenge for the title; not buy young talents who MAY come good in a few years time.


      we should of done both
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #16: Nov 19, 2014 12:49:01 pm
      Look at the league position. Look at the personnel available to us. Look at this season's performances. Then compare all of that to last year. We're a step down. We may have more depth but that depth is not strong enough. Had we brought in a mixed bag of potential and proven talent which we had the money to do so, we'd be up there with Chelsea who for all their faults, know what they're doing in the transfer market. We may be within touching distance of the top four but that's only because of the problems at United, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal and City and even if we do somehow manage to finish in the top four, it will be in spite of the Summer transfers, not because of them.


      We are, right now, four points off 4th, three points behind Arsenal (big spending, stable management for a decade and a half), two points off United (galactico-level spending, oe of the best managers in world football) and ahead of Spurs on goal difference (who spent big last season and have a talented young manager in charge).

      Yes we are "down" compared to last year but there's a big difference between that and it (currently) being described as a "disaster".

      Two of the top four slots seem to be up for grabs this year - if we can put a run together we have just as much chance as those three to grab one of them.

      Losing Suarez and Sturridge and changing the way we play whilst integrating so many new players into the squad and dealing with european competition means that a good cup run and qualification for next year's Champion's League would be encouraging for me.

      It's a simple formulae for measurement of whether you've improved between seasons. Would last year's first eleven beat this year's first eleven if they played against each other in a match? Right now last year's first eleven would win the match in double figures. We didn't sign bad players, we just failed to sign great players that would have improved us and allowed us to kick on.

      And i'm sure United would be stronger if they stil lhad Ronaldo - unfortunately the club had little say in it as he, like Suarez, elected to f**k off. Added to which, eleven players wouldn't get us very far with the added european competition this season. Also added to which you are comparing last year's team including Sturridge with this year's where he has been missing with injury. I don't think last years team would have beaten the side that faced Spurs by double figures - especially not the side that had Suarez out suspended for his bite.
      JustMingle
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #17: Nov 19, 2014 12:49:42 pm
      You only need a 23/24 man squad.

      I don't think Lovren, Manquillo, Lallana, Markovic, Lambert or Balotelli offer more than Coates, Ilori, Wisdom, Suso, Alberto, Ibe, and Aspas respectively. If we had kept the latter here and missed out on the former, I don't think we'd be any worse off regardless of the congested fixture list.

      never thought of it in those terms... and you are so right!!

      feel depressed now  :(
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #18: Nov 19, 2014 12:57:15 pm
      As for Adam Lallana being nearly as pricey as Cesc Fabregas...


      I presume you have included wages in your costings?
      HScRed1
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #19: Nov 19, 2014 01:09:12 pm
      You only need a 23/24 man squad.

      I don't think Lovren, Manquillo, Lallana, Markovic, Lambert or Balotelli offer more than Coates, Ilori, Wisdom, Suso, Alberto, Ibe, and Aspas respectively. If we had kept the latter here and missed out on the former, I don't think we'd be any worse off regardless of the congested fixture list.


      I understand your post mate but I think Manquillo a loanee and Lallana do offer more than what we already had.
      Lovren was very good last year and Coates can't even get into the Sunderland side.
      Not sure if Alberto and Aspas offer much at all and happy they are not here.
      Balotelli was just a panic buy that has backfired.


      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #20: Nov 19, 2014 01:19:15 pm
      Said it in the summer, I'll say it right now - we bought the right type of player if not the right name. We went out and strengthened our weakest areas as well. As well as rounding out the squad on the whole.

      We bought potentially great players. We bought players in the prime of their career. We bought British. We bought foreign. We even went out and bought a, so called, world star for a bargain price. What was there not to like?

      But as I've said, the actual player we've bought have by and large disappointed. Is this another case of us buying players from average clubs after they've had a decent season? We've done it for years so it's nothing new if we have.

      Lambert. I was pleased with the signing and felt that as a fella coming off the bench or starting the odd game when the first choice forwards needed a "rest" he'd be more than adequate. He was an improvement on Aspas surely? And for four million quid, you can't really go wrong. Unfortunately for Rickie though he's done F**k all to prove he's an improvement on Aspas.

      Lallana. I don't rate him and 25 million quid is about 30 million more than I'd of paid for him. He's got good feet fair enough but he's too fancy. Always trying to do step overs or drop the shoulder or drag it back and losing it. Sometimes just doing the simple thing is good enough. When it comes off for him he looks boss, I just don't think it comes off enough to warrant a 25 million price tag or a starting place in the team. For me he's a lesser version of either Benayoun or Garcia.

      Can. Like the look of him and think he'll prove to be the best of our signings this summer. Big, strong, powerful, comfortable running with the ball, puts himself about and is prepared to shoot from distance. Bit like Henderson only with more self belief. Those two in the middle together could be the perfect foil for each other and we could finally return to the good old days of two proper central midfielders without having to find daft names for the position they play.

      Markovic. Never heard of him when we bought him although I remember somebody on here mentioning him as the player he'd most like us to sign. (I suggested Lambert in the same discussion). Came with a big reputation for one so young. What I believed we were getting was a pacey winger who went past people like they weren't there. Hasn't quite materialised that way though. He's had flashes of promise but then really lets himself down in the final third which is where you'd want your winger to be at their best. I always say though, you can see within the first four or five games if a player has something about them, Markovic does. I just don't think it'll be at Liverpool. His price tag is the biggest of the lot though because for a potential superstar to whack 20 million on him is a huge gamble. If he'd cost about 10 million then I doubt many would actually be complaining.

      Lovren. I was chuffed when we got him. Last year he was outstanding for Southampton and I thought we'd got a proper centre half in alongside Skrtel. (as some will know, I don't see the hype with Sakho) Two proper defenders who defend first think later. But for whatever reason Lovren looks a shell of the player he was at St Mary's. And 20 mill on a centre half, you expect him to at least be able to defend. But he has shown some promise. If we can get a settled back line, maybe two or three clean sheets on the run then his confidence may return. Still hoping he'll come good but if carries on like this for the season then he'll be out in the summer.

      Manquillo. Again I'd never heard of him. Looks like there's a player in there somewhere and is an upgrade on Johnson. Then again right now Tony Hibbert would be an upgrade on Johnson. However I'd rather of kept both Wisdom and Kelly and sold Johnson than brought Manquillo in. For me he was a signing, even on loan, that we didn't need to make.

      Moreno. Unsurprisingly I'd never heard of him either. But the way the forum was going on when we were linked with him had me excited for his arrival. And the fact that we chased him for the majority of the summer showed we desperately wanted him - so he must have something right? He has. He's a F***ing beast going forward but does have the odd lapse of concentration at the back. It's only the odd lapse mind, it's not like he's making mistakes every time somebody attacks him. The City game where his mistake cost us the first, was the only mistake he made all game. I agree with Mick in the opening post that I think he'll move away from the full back position eventually. Rather than a young Evra, he strikes me more like a John Arne Riise - with more pace. 12 mill, good signing - especially if he's here for the long haul and doesn't start whinging to F**k off back to Spain after a year or two.

      Balotelli. Never rated him, never wanted him. Waste of 16 million. I've said many times that I'd rather of went into the season seeing a kid on the bench than Balotelli. January 1st comes round we should flog him - even if it means we have to pay the other club to take him off our hands. Anything to get shut of him.

      Origi. Never heard of him either till the World Cup then he was suddenly this superstar in the making cos he scored one goal in Brazil. For the rest of the tournament he looked quite poor to be honest. But I think that goes for most of Belgium who failed to live up to the hype surrounding them. He's meant to be doing alright in France, but so did Djibril Cisse. Can't say one way or the other yet if he's a good signing or another 10 million wasted because he hasn't put on a Liverpool shirt.

      So for me, we have wasted a fair few quid. 25 for Lallana, 16 for Balotelli, whatever we're paying for Manquillo (even loans have fees), 4 million on Lambert and potentially 50 million on Markovic, Lovren and Origi.

      Ah well, it's only money.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #21: Nov 19, 2014 01:23:57 pm
      And i'm sure United would be stronger if they stil lhad Ronaldo - unfortunately the club had little say in it as he, like Suarez, elected to f**k off. Added to which, eleven players wouldn't get us very far with the added european competition this season. Also added to which you are comparing last year's team including Sturridge with this year's where he has been missing with injury. I don't think last years team would have beaten the side that faced Spurs by double figures - especially not the side that had Suarez out suspended for his bite.

      You clearly didn't read what I said. Are United's first eleven this year stronger than their first eleven last year? Yes. They still have the same defensive issues but have a far stronger attacking midfield and forward line. Are Chelsea's first eleven stronger than last year's? Is Arsenal's? All these teams have issues but they still went out and built upon what they had last year.

      To paraphrase Churchill, our Summer can be summed up thus: Never has so much been spent on so little by so few.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.
      Reply #22: Nov 19, 2014 01:26:43 pm
      Lallana. I don't rate him and 25 million quid is about 30 million more than I'd of paid for him

       :lmao: Made me laugh out loud that bit mate  :lmao:

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