May as well be the first...I think some of our signings will come VERY good.

Which brings me onto the "70 goals" or "69 points" or "a win percentage of 58.982%" or whatever it is or supposed to be. See I don't care how many points we get, as long as it's more than anyone else in the league ideally or failing that more than everyone else outside the top four, that'll do for me.

So you do care how many points we get - it's just that the Maths behind it ain't for you. Fair enough mate; Maths can be scary.

Covering all bases with the word 'some' Mick which is stating the obvious, can you imagine the uproar if they all turned out like Aspas

Covering all bases with the word 'some' Mick

To be fair to the big fella Shabs, he did mention who the "some" were who, he believes, will 'come good quick enough for us to get into the top four this season.'

* Dejan Lovren... "will in my opinion be recognised as one of the best centre halves in the league within the next twelve months."

* Alberto Moreno... "looks like a very good buy indeed and could develop into a superstar."

* Adam Lallana... "he'll be a Liverpool player for the next five seasons at least."

* Emre Can... "Potential future captain, and at 10 million quid a snip."

* Xavier Manquillo... "I'd have him in front of Johnson right now given the choice"

This all boils down to did we bring in a player to replace Suarez? The answer is a huge no. The squad is person per person stronger than last year. If we kept Suarez and didn't have him for the first few months and Sturridge had the same injury woes as he does now. Does anyone think that we'd be doing better than we are now. I'd hazard to guess we'd be doing worse.

Based on what ive seen. No chance

It is a case of Patience is of virtue, although I do hope that you are proved correct.

Moreno for one cannot defend and has been directly responsible for two goals.
Wonderful sight to see him flashing down the wing but get him on his wrong foot in the penalty area and he is fu**ed.

Moreno for one cannot defend and has been directly responsible for two goals.
Wonderful sight to see him flashing down the wing but get him on his wrong foot in the penalty area and he is fu**ed.

Simples, just have him switch sides then he will always be on the "right" foot

Simples, just have him switch sides then he will always be on the "right" foot

its a serious point this lad is a liability defensively and the last thing we need is any more defensive weakness.

Good op, positive.
Imo though, we don't know for sure whether some/all of the guys will blossom. There is no guarantee.
Aquilani is the cautionary tale. Lots of people saw lots of potential in him - and never wanted rid of him - and maybe still think he's the dogs nuts. But he did f**k all for Liverpool, he left and wasn't missed one iota (apart from by the guy that working in the swimming pool) - 20 odd mill down the pan. Simply on the balance of probabilities, some of this summers guys won't make it either.

Either way, with all the money spent, it's had almost no impact on the first XI performance. In the main, still depending on the old stagers from last year to fish us out of the fire. Some of the signings not even making the bench.

Still think though that if we fix ourselves up front, would have a BIG positive impact on rest of the team. Our biggest, most glaring mistake, was not bringing in adequate backup for Luis. We left it late with Mario, who is getting a lot of stick, but it was sh*te planning. Bollox to the 'isn't hindsight great' - think a lot of people weren't happy with the forward deals done/not done before the season started.

F**k knows want to be positive - but with Studge out now for 6 weeks or whatever it is, the only light I see in the tunnel is the Jan window, and signing striker(s). Until then, I'd expect BR will rearrange the deckchairs as best he can, get more and more stick as we struggle to score, more people will want to talk about SG, Rafa will be mooted etc etc.

Hope to God we get the goals from somewhere - but if I had to put money down it would be on tough times ahead at least in the short term.

Lallana. I don't rate him and 25 million quid is about 30 million more than I'd of paid for him. He's got good feet fair enough but he's too fancy. Always trying to do step overs or drop the shoulder or drag it back and losing it. Sometimes just doing the simple thing is good enough. When it comes off for him he looks boss, I just don't think it comes off enough to warrant a 25 million price tag or a starting place in the team. For me he's a lesser version of either Benayoun or Garcia.

Sorry to lift this out of an excellent post but I don't think I've disagreed with you more Billy than on this point.

I think Lallana oozes class and I think if he is given a proper run in the side he will prove that.

I'm in agreement with Mick in that I think we have generally bought good players this summer but I think we missed one or even two 'great' players particularly up front.

I'm in agreement with Mick in that I think we have generally bought good players this summer but I think we missed one or even two 'great' players particularly up front.

Well Si, given that the massive void up-front was/is the one thing we needed to address, it hardly matters how good the rest of the players, we bought, are; does it?

As good and all as 'we' believe the new lads to be [or will be, maybe, perhaps... in a year or two] - it doesn't really matter because the void still exists.

Good and all as the new lads are [or will be, maybe, perhaps... in a year or two] - how much weaker would the team have been if we had only bought, for e.g. - Muller, Sanchez, Remy & Neuer - kept Ibe, Teixeira, Wisdom, Agger & Ilori and promoted Rossiter? Could we really not have coped (if that's the word) with the extra six Champions league games?

I guess the thing which bugs me most are the 'excuses' that 'we always knew that these new lads would need time to gel' and 'how do you replace Luis?'- not because they're not true but...

... Because, if "we all knew that..." then it shows, very clearly, that conscious decision was made to write off our title aspirations for yet another season.

The season after we were runners up FFS.

Now - Job done and title aspirations conveniently set aside, in our [fans] collective consciousness; let's get them to buy into the mindset that consolidation of a top four finish is the only show in town. Oh and remind them that "there's always next season". 

The thing is though BBB I'm not "buying into" anything as far as I'm aware. With the money we had available, we could have done exactly what Chelsea have done, namely bought three top players and gone all out for the title. That we didn't is as a result of ownership policy, and one which as a fan I cannot agree with. Yes I can see the long term financial sense in buying lots of young players, a couple of them at least have a chance of paying off, but as a club who is crying out for a title it absolutely did "write off" our chances of winning the title this season which is a crime.

The point of the OP really is to put into perspective all this "you wasted the money on sh!te" stuff, which I don't buy into. Nor do I buy into the idea that given Sturridge has been out all season Brendan is suddenly a clueless manager. No, I think even within the confines of our buy younger/cheaper wages policy (which I think is being over zealously pursued) we could have bought better (you can ALWAYS buy better when you've just bought nine players or whatever it was), but we haven't "wasted the money". In terms of winning the title anytime soon and not just this season IMHO, the money WAS wasted but I personally don't think the owners are massively interested in that. If this summers spending means we have a better chance of getting into the top four over the three seasons after this one, and we have a better chance of a Suarez style payoff down the track, they'd take that any day over a title win THIS season with the prospect of no resale value for a couple of big signings.

Do I agree with that policy? Of course I don't, no.

Well Si, given that the massive void up-front was/is the one thing we needed to address, it hardly matters how good the rest of the players, we bought, are; does it?

As good and all as 'we' believe the new lads to be [or will be, maybe, perhaps... in a year or two] - it doesn't really matter because the void still exists.

Good and all as the new lads are [or will be, maybe, perhaps... in a year or two] - how much weaker would the team have been if we had only bought, for e.g. - Muller, Sanchez, Remy & Neuer - kept Ibe, Teixeira, Wisdom, Agger & Ilori and promoted Rossiter? Could we really not have coped (if that's the word) with the extra six Champions league games?

I guess the thing which bugs me most are the 'excuses' that 'we always knew that these new lads would need time to gel' and 'how do you replace Luis?'- not because they're not true but...

... Because, if "we all knew that..." then it shows, very clearly, that conscious decision was made to write off our title aspirations for yet another season.

The season after we were runners up FFS.

Now - Job done and title aspirations conveniently set aside, in our [fans] collective consciousness; let's get them to buy into the mindset that consolidation of a top four finish is the only show in town. Oh and remind them that "there's always next season". 

Arsenal  -- spent big money on superstars and will once again be lucky to make the top 4

Man City – spent big money on superstars and aren’t at the races

Man United – spent big money on superstars and are doing worse than spending little money under Moyes


So, with all due respect for your stunning use of retrospect, what are you blathering on about?

Say we DIDN'T mange to persuade the likes of Neuer to come here (outlandish suggestion I know) what would your plan B have been? Settle for a second choice player or keep the money for the next transfer window?

I'm in agreement with Mick in that I think we have generally bought good players this summer but I think we missed one or even two 'great' players particularly up front.

Other than the Mario debacle, this is pretty much it...

1 or 2 big money moves and we'd of been ok... we were at least in for Sanchez so it shows there was willing to buy big...

whats needed now:
firtsly a big money established forward. No ifs or buts... go and get the big name needed to score goals and fill the obvious void

sencondly, a defencive/holding midfielder. This is as big a void as the one left in our forward line

I honestly think it could be as easy as that

but we haven't "wasted the money". In terms of winning the title anytime soon and not just this season IMHO, the money was wasted...

No problem mate - I get that. 

I don't believe we are a million miles apart Mick - just that you seem to believe that when people talk of 'wasted money' or 'false economy', they are all attacking the individual player. The fact is; they aren't [well, I'm not]. As such the bug-bear you harbour is often, if not always, misplaced; in my opinion, of course.

I can't speak for everyone mate but I can assure you that when I speak of 'false economy' or 'wasted money' (if, indeed I ever have); I'm not talking about an individual but more the objectives of a successful team.

All the lads you mention are good in their own right; I have no problems with them nor do I care how much each of them cost but the money spent to buy them [collectively] could have been better spent on a higher calibre of player in the position we needed filling most, at a time we were riding high.

To that end - it's easy to see why a lot of us believe that the money was 'wasted'.

The thing is though BBB I'm not "buying into" anything as far as I'm aware. With the money we had available, we could have done exactly what Chelsea have done, namely bought three top players and gone all out for the title. That we didn't is as a result of ownership policy, and one which as a fan I cannot agree with. Yes I can see the long term financial sense in buying lots of young players, a couple of them at least have a chance of paying off, but as a club who is crying out for a title it absolutely did "write off" our chances of winning the title this season which is a crime.

The point of the OP really is to put into perspective all this "you wasted the money on sh!te" stuff, which I don't buy into. Nor do I buy into the idea that given Sturridge has been out all season Brendan is suddenly a clueless manager. No, I think even within the confines of our buy younger/cheaper wages policy (which I think is being over zealously pursued) we could have bought better (you can ALWAYS buy better when you've just bought nine players or whatever it was), but we haven't "wasted the money". In terms of winning the title anytime soon and not just this season IMHO, the money WAS wasted but I personally don't think the owners are massively interested in that. If this summers spending means we have a better chance of getting into the top four over the three seasons after this one, and we have a better chance of a Suarez style payoff down the track, they'd take that any day over a title win THIS season with the prospect of no resale value for a couple of big signings.

Do I agree with that policy? Of course I don't, no.

Can someone remind me what low wages Stevie is on now and what Luis was on at the end? Is that proof of FSG scrimping and saving. You guys can twist it as much as you want to try and deflect blame from Brendan but the buck stops at him. He is NOT utilizing his players to their potential, due to being a very poor coach and having a bad coaching set up behind him. Of course he is a bit unlucky to not have Sturridge but he does have 3 strikers, one of whom certainly used to be top notch so he should be able to make better use of them, try a few different formations etc instead of doggedly sticking to one which 100% definitely doesn't work! How do you guys defend Brendan's crap tactics and team selections so far this season or is it somehow not his fault because he wasn't allowed to buy Messi and Ronaldo by the nasty FSG.

You guys can twist it as much as you want to deflect blame from Brendan but the buck stops at him.

Wrong thread fella but I get that you don't rate Brendan - that's you prerogative; an opinion you are fully entitled to.

Tell me this tho': just out of curiosity - do you believe that Brendan, should be ridiculed [sacked even] because he bought (and continues to play) the wrong personnel? 

Don't know why anyone would discuss other clubs form its our form that is awful and in need of discussion.
We have a great chance to start our comeback on Sunday we need to take it.
If we don't the press will start camping outside Melwood waiting for the axe to fall.
Its all on the players this weekend not tactics or team selection they need to put in a performance to prove why they have a red shirt on their backs.

Wrong thread fella but I get that you don't rate Brendan - that's you prerogative; an opinion you are fully entitled to.

Tell me this tho': just out of curiosity - do you believe that Brendan, should be ridiculed [sacked even] because he bought (and continues to play) the wrong personnel? 

I actually think the committee bought good players, i mentioned that earlier, although not buying additional forwards was criminal. My gripe is that Brendan is not utilising them and considering the paycheck that Brendan takes home then yes I fully believe he should be held to account just like any manager should when they do a crap job, why do you think he should be free from blame, do you think he's doing a competent job at this moment in time, considering our lack of goals and leaky defence?

why do you think he should be free from blame

Did I ever say that or are you just making sh*t up again?

I fully believe he should be held to account just like any manager should when they do a crap job,

So why then do you believe that FSG aren't accountable?

After all it's they who hired the man; they who heralded him as the way forward; they who, going into their fifth year, are no closer to having the system in place [the system about which John Henry said: "After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place."] to deliver on the promise that 'we are winners'.

Why are you not concerned that, in their fifth year, someone who said: "We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best" has not delivered on that front; that in fact we have never competed "with the very best" [haggled over a price, with a parent club, yes - "competed", no], at any point?

It's like this fella: there's plenty of blame to go round but if you genuinely believe that FSG aren't a main player, don't dictate policy and are (unlike any other managers) therefore free from blame, then you are being a bit thick.   




 

Arsenal  -- spent big money on superstars and will once again be lucky to make the top 4

Man City – spent big money on superstars and aren’t at the races

Man United – spent big money on superstars and are doing worse than spending little money under Moyes


So, with all due respect for your stunning use of retrospect, what are you blathering on about?

Say we DIDN'T mange to persuade the likes of Neuer to come here (outlandish suggestion I know) what would your plan B have been? Settle for a second choice player or keep the money for the next transfer window?

And Chelsea? 

I'd agree regarding Lallana, Moreno and Can. Definitely a place in the squad for Manquillo too but not sure he'll ever become a top class right back.

Got no faith in any of the others delivering the goods for us if I'm honest.

(Not judging Origi yet)