At what point do YOU call for a manager to go?

At a point where I haven't even cared to wake up in the morning to watch my beloved team play in almost a month. Something that never happened to me in the last fifteen years.

This thread starting to look very similar to the Brendan Rodgers thread... so in an attempt to keep it open I will refer back to the original post.

So at what point do/have you finally lose/lost faith in a manager?  What has to happen before you call for his head?

So at what point do/have you finally lose/lost faith in a manager?  What has to happen before you call for his head?

If he doesn't turn it around in the next few weeks, we might just find out.

Erm, are you sure about this one Stu? Now I'm no FSG lover by any means but I'm not too sure they got him in to keep us mid table.

Their aspiration for the club judging by their actions, can only be described as modest mate.
JWH has stated FSG will not enter into bidding wars with the Spurs of this world - to say nothing of the better teams in the Prem.
It has also been stated they will not pay more than they consider a fair price for a potential signing.
We have witnessed the results of these proclamations as LFC hurtle down the league to a mid-table position.
Nothing suggests FSG are about to change direction.

That question must have been asked about Kenny. the answer was to do with league position and transfers despite him winning a trophy and getting us back into Europe.
So where does that leave Brendan, his transfers have been awful and we are lodged firmly in the bottom half of the league so why haven't FSG pulled the trigger?.
If they do it now any decent manager will want a shed load of money to spend so sleep well Brendan you will be ok until june when a plane ticket to Boston will have your name on it and we can start the merry go around once more

This thread starting to look very similar to the Brendan Rodgers thread... so in an attempt to keep it open I will refer back to the original post.

Fair enough. Wouldn't want to be a moderator today.

We can all say he should get the season and all of that, but even the staunchest old schoolers and Brendan Rodgers supporters would be changing suit if he hadn't turned it around in the next four games against Ludogorots (a), Stoke (h), Leicester (a), and Sunderland (h). The fact that all of those games look difficult is an indicator of how serious the situation we are in actually is.

Fair enough. Wouldn't want to be a moderator today.

We can all say he should get the season and all of that, but even the staunchest old schoolers and Brendan Rodgers supporters would be changing suit if he hadn't turned it around in the next four games against Ludogorots (a), Stoke (h), Leicester (a), and Sunderland (h). The fact that all of those games look difficult is an indicator of how serious the situation we are in actually is.

Every time we lose in the next 6 games the question will be asked again and again and if we lose on Weds we are out of the CL. He needs to make some really bold decisions and hope his luck changes quickly hopefully the Ludogrets side will all come down with the screaming habdabs before Weds game

At what point do you call for the players to go? Afterall, they share a portion of this season's problems. It's all too easy to simply blame the manager, sack him and bring a new one in but that rarely works. Look at Spurs last season. AVB won eight games out of sixteen played. He's fired and replaced by Sheerwood who won twelve of his twenty one games in charge. AVB won 50% of the games he was in charge of, Sheerwood won 57% - the same win ratio as AVB's first twenty one games. They change managers again and Pochettino has won five of his twelve league games in charge - that's only 41% of games won. Similarly Fulham start the season with Jol in charge and finish the season with Meulensteen; they get relegated.

Often do fans scream for a manager's head but rarely does a managerial change mid-season actually work and rarer still does it have an immediate impact the following season. Another good example is United. By this date in November last year, Moyes had won six in eleven games, their new 'big name' manager Val Gal has only won five out of twelve games he's managed in the league so far this season. So at what point do we say the players have to take responsibility for their own lack of form, raise their heads, dust themselves down and dig in to get a result rather than allowing the pressure to get to them? Changing managers won't solve the problem. Players changing their attitude will.

At what point do you call for the players to go? Afterall, they share a portion of this season's problems. It's all too easy to simply blame the manager, sack him and bring a new one in but that rarely works. Look at Spurs last season. AVB won eight games out of sixteen played. He's fired and replaced by Sheerwood who won twelve of his twenty one games in charge. AVB won 50% of the games he was in charge of, Sheerwood won 43%.

Win % (if 12 out of 21 is accurate) would be 57% mate.

That question must have been asked about Kenny. the answer was to do with league position and transfers despite him winning a trophy and getting us back into Europe.
So where does that leave Brendan, his transfers have been awful and we are lodged firmly in the bottom half of the league so why haven't FSG pulled the trigger?.

Kenny was despatched with the help of Comolli for a track record as you point out superior to BR's, not a whisper of discontent much less the appointment of an agent of theirs to ''monitor'' the manager's performance.
FSG appointed Brendan and he is doing as he is bid, why and how he could be fired is far from straightforward.
 

If they do it now any decent manager will want a shed load of money to spend so sleep well Brendan you will be ok until june when a plane ticket to Boston will have your name on it and we can start the merry go around once more

Cannot see him going anywhere to be honest, FSG's choice of a replacement really does not bear thinking about.

Kenny was despatched with the help of Comolli for a track record as you point out superior to BR's, not a whisper of discontent much less the appointment of an agent of theirs to ''monitor'' the manager's performance.
FSG appointed Brendan and he is doing as he is bid, why and how he could be fired is far from straightforward.
 
Cannot see him going anywhere to be honest, FSG's choice of a replacement really does not bear thinking about.

he has a plane ticket with his name on it dated 1st June

Win % (if 12 out of 21 is accurate) would be 57% mate.

So it is. AVB's first twenty one games in charge (2012/2013 season) he won twelve of those games. The same amount as Sherwood. The point still stands.

Kenny was despatched with the help of Comolli for a track record as you point out superior to BR's, not a whisper of discontent much less the appointment of an agent of theirs to ''monitor'' the manager's performance.
FSG appointed Brendan and he is doing as he is bid, why and how he could be fired is far from straightforward.

Kenny Dalglish may have been prematurely sacked because he wasn't friendly to the press (suffer fools gladly). American marketing ventures aka fsg like good press relations because it leads to loads of sponsorship deals that non of us really know where the money ends up.

Not really, or don't you know what on average means?

No what is on average please enlighten me?

Experience has shown that things can be turned around! Look at West Ham and Newcastle's fortunes,  I'd hardly consider Big Sam and Alan Pardew tactical geniuses!
I was too quick to give up on Rafa,  I'm prepared to give Brendan the opportunity to turn things around, until the end of the season anyway.

This is becoming a more interesting and debatable topic as time and games progress.

I'm one who backs the manager along with others on here but also one who has questioned him and criticised him when I felt it was merited.

As I sit here right now I'm just trying to think what I'd be saying if this run continued and we lose the next three games with Brendan still sticking broadly to the same players who have been sh*te all season.

As much as I don't think you should change managers mid season I can't honestly say if this scenario happened I wouldn't be getting a bit twitchy.

I would only want to see him gone at the end of the season IF he carries on playing the sh*t football we have been playing all season with no improvements.

I just don't understand how we went from playing how we did last season to this shitty Allardyce crap football. If Rodgers changes mid way through the season and reverts back to what made us so successful and keeping to his philosophy, I'd be more than happy to see him stick around... with a new scouting team of course

I would only want to see him gone at the end of the season IF he carries on playing the sh*t football we have been playing all season with no improvements.

I just don't understand how we went from playing how we did last season to this shitty Allardyce crap football. If Rodgers changes mid way through the season and reverts back to what made us so successful and keeping to his philosophy, I'd be more than happy to see him stick around... with a new scouting team of course

Just 2 things mate.

1. We're not even playing Allardyce level football here. The "football" he's had his teams play was at the very least distinguishable and they had a plan. They set out to play that way, we don't have a plan. He picks Mignolet, Lovren, Skrtel, Johnson, Gerrard, Allen and Sterling and then randomly fills in the remaining positions. Just like Mourinho had his untouchables Brendan has his. The only way we're changing "mid way through the season and reverting back to what made us so successful" is if Suarez picks up the phone and says that life in Spain isn't all its made out to be and he wants to come back oh and Sturridge suddenly gains Ronaldo's physical strength. Otherwise we're just going to get more of the same this season.

2. The problems we have aren't the fault of the scouts. All of the players we signed with the exception of Balotelli and Manquillo (who didn't play much last season) were in good form.

- Lambert: I think scored 15 goals and had 10 assists last season.
- Lallana: Played some cracking stuff and was in most pundits' team of the season.
- Lovren: Had a very good season and most people in his transfer thread (including me) were chuffed with us signing him.
- Moreno: Became a Spanish international and was heavily linked with Real Madrid. In fact possibly the only reason he isn't at the Bernabeu right now is because Madrid can't seem to move Coentrão.
-Markovic: Was one of the hottest if not THE hottest prospect in the Portuguese league last season and he gave the Juventus defenders a torrid time in the Europa League semifinal. He was also heavily linked with Chelsea before he went to Benfica and some (mostly sh*te) sources were linking him with Chelsea again this past summer.
- Can: Was earning rave reviews in Germany with Leverkusen last season if you're being compared to Michael Ballack then you must be doing something right and apparently Bayern were making it difficult for us to sign him this summer because they were always under the impression that they'd leave him at Leverkusen for a season or two and bring him back.

You can't tell me the scouts fu**ed up when these people were all in good form and many people were happy about them being signed on this very forum. The funny thing is they perform well on International duty and they're seemingly only sh*te when they play for us. So if they were good before they came here and they're good when they're away from here then surely the problem must be whatever's going on during training sessions and preparation for matches here. Some of those players were apparently good enough for the likes of Bayern, Real Madrid and Chelsea to take long hard looks at (and in Moreno's case approach) but they're not good enough for us?

The problems we have will remain for as long as Brendan is here. Our defence has shipped 111 league goals in 88 league games (1.26 goals per game)despite him spending over £66M on defenders and a goalkeeper in hIs time here. We've been sh*te defensively, disjointed and unbalanced for Brendan's entire tenure. In the past he always had either one of Suarez or Sturridge or the both of them to mask his tactical deficiencies and bag a few goals. But even then we were shipping 3 goals a game on the regular against teams like West Brom, Villa, Southampton (when they were still sh*te) Cardiff, Hull, Swansea and Palace. Now that Brendan doesn't have Suarez and Sturridge he's been well and truly exposed as a manager. And he doesn't even have help from the coaches because he's surrounded himself with no-marks like Pascoe and Marsh who are less experienced and who've somehow achieved less in their coaching careers then a manager with a trophy haul of exactly 0 medals. They've achieved less than nothing and they offer that much insight.

He doesn't have a plan B except for "give the ball to Suarez or Sturridge" or pass it around aimlessly around the half-way line for the entire match, he can't motivate the team the players aren't playing for him anymore they're genuinely not arsed if Brendan gets sacked later today or after Ludo or in January. The only reason I wouldn't want him sacked immediately is because we wouldn't be able to find anyone decent in late November.

The problems we have will remain for as long as Brendan is here. Our defence has shipped 111 league goals in 88 league games (1.26 goals per game)despite him spending over £66M on defenders and a goalkeeper in hIs time here. We've been sh*te defensively, disjointed and unbalanced for Brendan's entire tenure. In the past he always had either one of Suarez or Sturridge or the both of them to mask his tactical deficiencies and bag a few goals. But even then we were shipping 3 goals a game on the regular against teams like West Brom, Villa, Southampton (when they were still sh*te) Cardiff, Hull, Swansea and Palace.

Unfortunately I think this is something we are all beginning to consider. I wouldn't say Rodgers is clueless but defensive coaching certainly doesn't seem to be his strong point. It was clear last year that Suarez and Sturridge (amongst others like Cou and Sterling) were masking our defensive frailties. I'd hoped that losing Suarez would mean we'd have a more balanced team, as we'd not try and fit all our attacking players in the 1st XI, and thus be less likely to ship goals, but alas thus far that has not been the case.

Unfortunately I think this is something we are all beginning to consider. I wouldn't say Rodgers is clueless but defensive coaching certainly doesn't seem to be his strong point. It was clear last year that Suarez and Sturridge (amongst others like Cou and Sterling) were masking our defensive frailties. I'd hoped that losing Suarez would mean we'd have a more balanced team, as we'd not try and fit all our attacking players in the 1st XI, and thus be less likely to ship goals, but alas thus far that has not been the case.

It should have been evident last season just how poor we are defensively. You take Suarez and Sturridge out of that team last season and our goal difference is -1 and God knows where we would have been without them in terms of points. I get that people were excited and happy and all that and they've developed some sense of loyalty towards Brendan for last season but surely someone has to see that we're doing something incredibly wrong from a structural and tactical perspective if 2 players (out of 11)  are the difference between our goal difference being +51 and -1.

We need a run of 20 games playing bad before I start to question the gaffer. We are probably on 15 so I now have my doubts but no means a Rodgers out type of guy!

Our record this season (all comps)

P18   W6    D3    L9   F21   A27  Win% 33.33

We need a run of 20 games playing bad before I start to question the gaffer. We are probably on 15 so I now have my doubts but no means a Rodgers out type of guy!

20 games? At Liverpool Football Club? Either you're a glutton for punishment or you secretly fancy Brendan.