Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?

Yeah thats it. Sell any stars, buy low wage kids and we'll walk the league.
The magic formula. Ricky Lambert will go down in history...
Just like Real, Bayern, Man C, Chelsea, Manc Utd.

Do you get paid per post? Or a gross value according to the amount of idiocy? Either way, its very tiresome.

Clearly you've only looked at the last 3 years then.

Dont names like Dalglish, Torres, Mascherano and many others mean anything to you?
Evidently not.

I do agree that we have sold stars and paid a lower fee and wages on replacements. Not once in the PL era have we signed world class players capable of replacing the stars we sold. In no way can we compete vs Real Madrid, Barca, Chelsea, Man City, Bayern, PSG, Arsenal, Man Utd & possibly Juventus. We have been behind them for long long time.

For now, our only best option is to buy exceptional players and hope they'll turn into world class players, once that happens, they'll eventually go to one of the bigger clubs if we're not in CL and not competing for cups on a regular basis. So, we repeat what we've done for the last 20 years or so until we become more stable and have a mind set of a big club which we're not at the moment.

Well, you can put Alonso into that category and Cisse.

But, I don't think we have bought any established world class players... ever?

We didn't need to buy established world class stars we had the worlds best managers.

We didn't need to buy established world class stars we had the worlds best managers.

I agree, also, you don't need to buy established world class stars to win or challenge for cups on a regular basis. If you spend wisely on exceptional players, the team will function just as well as having 1 or 2 world class players in the team. Eventually, the exceptional players will be boosted to world class status when you are challenging or winning cups regularly.

I agree, also, you don't need to buy established world class stars to win or challenge for cups on a regular basis. If you spend wisely on exceptional players, the team will function just as well as having 1 or 2 world class players in the team. Eventually, the exceptional players will be boosted to world class status when you are challenging or winning cups regularly.

just remember Wimbledon 11 players sticking together punching way way above themselves. We have no unity in our squad and we have no characters who will get stuck in and back each other up we are a soft touch

Arsenal have the biggest cash reserves in the league - if we are competing for a player of proven worth I think we can put in a competitive offer.

What we can't do is splash out tens of millions on fees and wages to have players sit on the bench or in loan pools like our rivals can.

And we just received a lump sum check of £75,000,000.

Name me a single time when we've beat an established club to a signing of a top quality player. Just once, in FSG's history here, other than Suarez.

They talk the talk "compete with anyone in world football" but when it comes to walking the walk, they come up short, time after time again.

And we just received a lump sum check of £75,000,000.

Name me a single time when we've beat an established club to a signing of a top quality player. Just once, in FSG's history here, other than Suarez.

They talk the talk "compete with anyone in world football" but when it comes to walking the walk, they come up short, time after time again.

Because they don't get football they don't get the emotion of it the importance of it. They never will.
Lets be honest we have been in trouble since 2007 would Shankly of welcomed any of our owners since then not a chance he wouldn't have given them the time of day.
This club is in the heart of a community and it should reflect that.Its a community of people who don't have much but they would give you the shirt of their back and they would defend their own to the bitter end.
We used to be like that and we had players who reflected those values we still have a couple but not enough of them

And we just received a lump sum check of £75,000,000.

Name me a single time when we've beat an established club to a signing of a top quality player. Just once, in FSG's history here, other than Suarez.

They talk the talk "compete with anyone in world football" but when it comes to walking the walk, they come up short, time after time again.

Spurs bid 30 million for Andy Carroll which we ended up beating.

We learnt from that lesson to stick to a maximum value since we got our fingers badly burnt.

It seems relatively sensible to me.

Brendan badly wanted Willian but would it really have been worth blowing 40 million on him?

Spurs bid 30 million for Andy Carroll which we ended up beating.

We learnt from that lesson to stick to a maximum value since we got our fingers badly burnt.

It seems relatively sensible to me.

Brendan badly wanted Willian but would it really have been worth blowing 40 million on him?

Is Willian worth £40M we know the sensible answer but if you turn it around and say Lovren + Allen or add any other name = Willian...........I would say yes please.

Does this thread mean 'Bad' as in the 80's use of the word or we're just not good, because I think a case can be made for both.

Like 'that Lovren deal was BAD', which is like it was sh*t deal or that it was a real dangerous move.

Most teams we had are mantally weak. We don't seem to cope with a big loss.

As a club we have frequently been accused of being a "one man team" in recent years.

As the standard of the group has been dragged upwards by individual performances you can see why club outsiders may say that. In our recent history it can be argued that all of our managers have been defined by how they have handled the transition of those players.

Rafa sold Xabi in controversial circumstances and found it hard to recover.

Hodge tried to reshape Reina's game completely unsuccessfully and started the process which saw him leaving the club.

Kenny failed to bring Carra's time at the club to the end it needed to have and only managed to get rid of Torres through the good fortune of him hitting the self destruct button.

Now Brendan has seemingly bet his cards on a waning Steven Gerrard and has scrambled to cover the loss of Suarez which appears to have come as a huge surprise to the club.


Contrast the handling of those players with the way Ferguson sold Ronaldo or Mourinho dealt with Mata - both deals that were eagerly derided at the time. In our own history there is no greater example than Bob Paisley restructuring Shankly's successful but ageing side.


If identifying, buying ,coaching and disposing of top level players is the difference between a good and a great club then why have we done so badly despite hiring the best coach in Europe (RB), a club legend (KD), an experienced English coach (RH) or an ambitious up and comer (BR) and how do we improve our performance in this regard?

Very good topic and opening post Hollywood.

It's something that has happened all too often in recent years and we always seem to be a club 'in transition' and constantly losing one or two great players and not replacing them as soon as we should have.

Spurs bid 30 million for Andy Carroll which we ended up beating.

We learnt from that lesson to stick to a maximum value since we got our fingers badly burnt.

It seems relatively sensible to me.

Brendan badly wanted Willian but would it really have been worth blowing 40 million on him?

You're being extremely lenient by selecting Carroll there. He's far from top quality. Far far away from that, in fact.

I'll name you four quality players we've missed out on:

Sanchez
William
Costa
Henrikh Mkhitaryan

Then if you want to mention other players we've missed out on:

Salah
Siggurdson
Demspey

We were so close to missing out on Coutinho too, Southampton bid more than us and we were not willing to match it. It was only until Coutinho wanted to join us over Southampton did they allow him to go.

It seems relatively sensible to me.

If there's anything sensible about our transfer policy the last few years, I have got to be missing something. It's a total mess.

Brendan badly wanted Willian but would it really have been worth blowing 40 million on him?

Chelsea paid £32 million for him. I don't see where the £40 million comes from.

Also, Chelsea didn't just beat us, Tottenham did too. He was off to have a medical for Tottenham before Chelsea signed him under their noses.

So I repeat, the owners can talk the talk, but can they walk the walk? Can they F**k.

Would have been stupid for us to spend that much on 1 player seeing as we didn't have such a strong squad in the past, also being out of CL for so many years didn't help. Even having new billionaire owners when FFP was in place would be difficult, so us not being able to compete makes sense. We need financial stability and to get that stage of competing vs big clubs, you need regularly CL qualifications, then we can consider spending big on 1 player.

There was no chance of us competing vs the big clubs in the past, but since entering CL, we was getting there.. until the summer transfer f**k up.

Would have been stupid for us to spend that much on 1 player seeing as we didn't have such a strong squad in the past, also being out of CL for so many years didn't help. Even having new billionaire owners now would be difficult because of the FFP rules. We need financial stability and to get that, you need regularly CL qualifications, then we can consider spending big on 1 player.

There was no chance of us competing vs the big clubs in the past, but since entering CL, we was getting there.. until the summer transfer F**k up.

If the club couldn't afford £35-£40 million on one player after we qualified for the CL and just got £75 million for Suarez, we might as well all just go home and aim for 7th every season.

Even Everton splashed £30 million on a player in the summer, and they didn't have CL or a large cash boost.

Scraping the barrel very hard to find even the most pathetic excuse here.

If the club couldn't afford £35-£40 million on one player after we qualified for the CL and just got £75 million for Suarez, we might as well all just go home and aim for 7th every season.

Even Everton splashed £30 million on a player in the summer, and they didn't have CL or a large cash boost.

Scraping the barrel very hard to find even the most pathetic excuse here.

This summer is totally different with increased revenues. I believe we could've spent 30-40m on 3 players each this summer, but that's down to the transfer committee in f**king up and buying sh*t. There is no excuse this year, we had money to spend... but we didn't spend it wisely.

As for competing, we're not at that stage in competing with the likes of Barca, Madrid, City, Chelsea etc, they have a bigger pull on us, financial more stable and more £ incoming.

This summer is totally different with increased revenues. I believe we could've spent 30-40m on 3 players each this summer, but that's down to the transfer committee in f**king up and buying sh*t. There is no excuse this year, we had money to spend... but we didn't spend it wisely.

As for competing, we're not at that stage in competing with the likes of Barca, Madrid, City, Chelsea etc, they have a bigger pull on us, financial more stable and more £ incoming.

I agree we can't compete with them four clubs.

But if Man United can sign world class players in the summer without any European football, why can't we? Especially after we F***ing sold our only world class player.

They signed two genuine top top players, Di Maria and Falcao. While we're signing F***ing Lambert and Balotelli.

Ambitious clubs would be overpaying to get a replacement if necessary. As overpaying for that one top top replacement will cause less damage than not signing one and suffering for 1/2 seasons.

I agree we can't compete with them four clubs.

But if Man United can sign world class players in the summer without any European football, why can't we? Especially after we f**king sold our only world class player.

They signed two genuine top top players, Di Maria and Falcao. While we're signing f**king Lambert and Balotelli.

Ambitious clubs would be overpaying to get a replacement if necessary. As overpaying for that one top top replacement will cause less damage than not signing one and suffering for 1/2 seasons.

As much as I hate to say it, they have a big club mentality, we currently don't, adding to that, they have a world class manager and have been out of CL for 1 season only. They struck whilst the iron was hot and took a gamble to take them back to top 4 whilst their reputation was still in tact. Also, adding to that, they have accumulated enough money to be able to spend big on players due to their success over the last 20+ years.

We were in the same situation in 07/08 weren't we? Big club, out of CL for a season and still with pulling power.....difference was, our cowboys had no money so it was inevitable our demise was incoming.

Anyway, I believe we had the money this season but we have the mind set of a mid table - lower end team, this needs to change if we want to get back to where we belong.

Very good topic and opening post Hollywood.

It's something that has happened all too often in recent years and we always seem to be a club 'in transition' and constantly losing one or two great players and not replacing them as soon as we should have.

Cheers!

I agree it's frustrating; moreover when we do challenge we always appear to be two players short of winning the title - which in reality means signing four quality players and hoping that half of them work out.

Suarez was a difficult transition to handle in all honesty; if he was replaceable Barca wouldn't have bothered shelling out 70 big ones for him.

We are now in a situation where we need to find players we can build the side around for the next ten years - a Kompany, a Lampard, a Keane or an Henry.

It's not going to be cheap but deciding how we replace Pepe, Carra, Stevie and Suarez will probably be the biggest determinant of our success.

Cheers!

It's not going to be cheap

No but ever since you've been here, you've been trying to dupe people it WOULD BE! 

You're being extremely lenient by selecting Carroll there. He's far from top quality. Far far away from that, in fact.

I'll name you four quality players we've missed out on:

Sanchez
William
Costa
Henrikh Mkhitaryan

Then if you want to mention other players we've missed out on:

Salah
Siggurdson
Demspey

We were so close to missing out on Coutinho too, Southampton bid more than us and we were not willing to match it. It was only until Coutinho wanted to join us over Southampton did they allow him to go.

If there's anything sensible about our transfer policy the last few years, I have got to be missing something. It's a total mess.

Chelsea paid £32 million for him. I don't see where the £40 million comes from.

Also, Chelsea didn't just beat us, Tottenham did too. He was off to have a medical for Tottenham before Chelsea signed him under their noses.

So I repeat, the owners can talk the talk, but can they walk the walk? Can they f**k.

Whether he ended up being top quality or not we beat off another team to break the British transfer record to land him. Chelsea paid more money for Torres and it can hardly be said he proved himself to be top quality either.

Yes Chelsea paid 32 for Willian but the 40 I quoted was an estimate of how much it would have cost us to outbid them since they could have gone higher than 32 and we would have to persuade him to join us instead. Is he worth that much money to us? I would say not.

In the end, it's true that Carroll plus Allen might be worth a Willian but that's only with the benefit of hindsight. If we knew that a player's value would double are signing for us then paying a hundred million for them wouldn't be a problem.

The trick is knowing that in advance.

Whether he ended up being top quality or not we beat off another team to break the British transfer record to land him. Chelsea paid more money for Torres and it can hardly be said he proved himself to be top quality either.

Technically we didn't pay anything for Carroll, it was basically a case of players swapping. 2 came in, 2 went out, we spent nothing in that window.

Technically we didn't pay anything for Carroll, it was basically a case of players swapping. 2 came in, 2 went out, we spent nothing in that window.

It's a distinction without a difference.

I agree we can't compete with them four clubs.

But if Man United can sign world class players in the summer without any European football, why can't we? Especially after we f**king sold our only world class player.

They signed two genuine top top players, Di Maria and Falcao. While we're signing f**king Lambert and Balotelli.

Ambitious clubs would be overpaying to get a replacement if necessary. As overpaying for that one top top replacement will cause less damage than not signing one and suffering for 1/2 seasons.

Kuper, Tomkins and the rest of the boys have 'proved' that the highest wage bill consistently wins championships. Liverpool will simply never be able to match what Chelsea and City are able to do regardless of FFP (loopholes etc, control of the market etc.). So do we then 'dangerously' spend in the hopes of winning a title and a FA Cup or so once every ten years? In other words: are we happy with being another Arsenal? Innovation/experimentation has become the name of the game, no?

I'm certainly not advocating 'buying on the cheap' by the way, merely addressing another avenue.