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      Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?

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      rossyred
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #69: Dec 20, 2014 10:41:56 pm
      Yep, again we are saying the same thing - it's about picking the right player not spending the most money.

      Question is : how do we learn to pick the right players?

      Get a good scouting system would help
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #70: Dec 20, 2014 10:59:27 pm
      It has nothing to do with "player transitions."  It has to do with 90% of the players we buy being absolute sh*te.

      Funny how Suarez didn't need time to "settle in" or to "transition."  Why?  because he's a top class player and you can put him in any league in the world and he will hit the ground running.

      Coutinho didn't need time to settle in.  Nor did Sturridge.  why?  because they're top players.

      Even looking around at other clubs.  Sanchez hasn't needed time to "settle in" or "transition."  Nor has Costa.  Nor did Aguero.  Nor did Silva.  And so on and so f**king forth.  since someone will blame that on the sugar daddy club owners, take someone like Cabaye at Newcastle---he didn't need time to settle in either.  Because he was a top player.  (and bought for a bag of chips mind.  imagine that Borini cost us twice as much as Cabaye cost Newcastle.)

      So.  Stop buying sh*te and you won't need to transition players.  Buy sh*te from mid-table clubs and you know exactly what will happen.

      I think what you mean by "top" players are the ones that you happen to rate - in general, the ones that even non football fans know because they are in the papers all the time as established stars. But established stars flop too.

      Shevchenko not a "top" player? Torres? Veron? Forlan?

      Of the players you mentioned Suarez took two years to hit his best form, Sanchez flopped at Barca which is why they sold him.

      Costa, Aguero and Silva hit the ground running after their recent transfers, Mata, Balotelli and Ozil haven't - are they not "top" players either?

      Unless we have more money than everybody else our plan cannot be to just buy more top stars than City, United, Chelsea and Arsenal. Not only can we not afford it but that has NEVER been the way this club has operated.

      So the question remains how do we identify players that will provide top quality and hit the ground running before they are established stars?

      Didn't even bring Diame into the equation.
      federer
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #71: Dec 20, 2014 11:02:32 pm
      If you look at the average signing by Chelsea, they aren't actually making anywhere near the amount of big money signings as people tend to think they are. What is interesting is the level of success they have in the bottom end of the market. Cech for £9 million has been a far more successful signing than Mingnolet for £9 million. Roben at £12 million was better than Aquilani at £17 million. In order to compete with Chelsea we don't necessarily need more money to spend, we simply need better eyes for talent.

      This is spot on actually.  Not just Cech either.  Take a look at these, just in their defence alone:

      Cahill - £7m
      Azpilicueta - £7m
      Courtois - £6m
      Ivanovic - £9m

      Compare and contrast to some of ours:

      Lovren - £20m
      Johnson - £18m
      Mignolet - £9m
      Moreno - £12m
      Sakho - £15m


      I still can't believe they bought Cech AND Courtois for £15m and we paid nearly £10m just for Simon "kick it into the stands" Mignolet.

      it really isn't always about how much money you've got; it's about how you spend it.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #72: Dec 20, 2014 11:04:37 pm
      Yep, again we are saying the same thing - it's about picking the right player not spending the most money.

      Question is : how do we learn to pick the right players?

      Partly what Rossy says. Clearly the men behind Chelsea's eye for talent are better than the men behind ours over the last ten years. It's not an easy question to answer because any fool looking at Roben knew he was a highly talented player so why did we not even attempt to sign him? Then there's the original question I posed about how FSG come to their valuations. How was a player who'd played half a season in the Premier League worth £35 million but a player who had extensive Champions League experience only worth £40 million? I've been calling for a review of our transfer policy for some time. The club needs to sit down before next Summer and investigate why the club is persistently getting it wrong in the transfer market. I'd rather us go in to next season having not signed anyone than wasted another £125 million on players that don't offer enough to move us forward. We have to start getting this right before its too late.
      federer
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #73: Dec 20, 2014 11:07:31 pm
      Costa, Aguero and Silva hit the ground running after their recent transfers, Mata, Balotelli and Ozil haven't - are they not "top" players either?

      um Mata did hit the ground running at Chelsea.  No, Balotelli isn't a top player.  And no, Ozil is not in the same echelon as Suarez/Sanchez etc.

      Anyway I don't disagree with you that not ALL top players are ready to go right away; that's definitely not the case.  But most of them are.  Whereas it's the exact inverse for mid-table players; most of them are NOT ready to go right away---only a few are.  I'd say 9 out of 10 of the top players in the world would hit the ground running, whereas maybe 3 out of 10 of your average mid-table rubbish would be ready to go.

      That's because no matter what, the top players have a skillset they can fall back on.  Suarez wasn't exactly a speed demon, and yet he didn't have any problems with the English game, why?  because he was incredibly skilled with the ball and even if he couldn't outrun a defender, he could pull some trick to get buy him with ease.  If you're a midtable player and you have the pressure of being at a big club, everything is going faster and you're suddenly expected to win, well you won't have the same skills as a Suarez or a Sanchez to bail you out when things don't go well.

      that's the difference in my opinion.

      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #74: Dec 20, 2014 11:18:46 pm
      Get a good scouting system would help

      Well we tried to bring in some of the best in the business from Man City  but it's not worked out so far. We tried to buck the system by using innovative stats technique and that failed. We tried to give money to a club legend in Kenny to help decide on players that would fit the club and that failed.

      So far the most successful recent signings that have accrued the most value for the club have been Alonso (Rafa signing), Masch (Rafa signing), Torres (Rafa signing), Suarez (virtual Rafa signing), Sterling (Rafa signing) Coutinho (recommended to the club by Rafa) and Sturridge (sold to us by Rafa). Our second tier, value for money, signings have been Pepe, Skrtel, Agger and Lucas - all signed by Rafa.

      Picking the right players on a (comparatively) limited budget, improving them and selling them on to buy the next level of player is therefore possible - even turning 75% of our major signings into successes rather than just 50% would transform the fortunes of the club.

      The question is how to achieve that when everybody is looking to do the same thing.
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #75: Dec 21, 2014 12:16:18 am
      Surely the most ridiculous thread in the recent history of the forums.

      Reminds me of this:-

      Dear Viz
      I recently sold my son in law's 2007 Bentley for 70k and replaced it with 4 Austin Allegros from 1978 that  were very cheap according to the algorithm I wrote.  I then trousered the difference in prices to put down a deposit on a nice yacht.  My son in law has been very ungracious in my efforts to help him, and is obsessed with the fact that the Allegro was slightly less expensive than the Bentley. Sadly, he has no appreciation of the time I had to spend sourcing such a fine example of an Allegro.
      I admit that it may be some time before each Allegro is running as smoothly as I like. But unfortunately my son in law has no sense of patience. And he is obsessed with me "buying a big name". Any ideas where I am going wrong?
      Yours Sincerely
      Smart Alec Plant from Boston
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #76: Dec 21, 2014 07:36:16 pm
      All the talk before todays match was about Sanchez this and Sanchez that.

      Brendan was asked about it in the presser. Sky ran an advert about how missing out on Sanchez would come back to haunt us.

      Yet, watching today's match you would have thought that Markovic was the big money signing and Sanchez the one with potential.

      I'm strugging to recall what Sanchez actually did in today's game apart from fall over to win the free kick.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #77: Dec 21, 2014 08:31:48 pm
      All the talk before todays match was about Sanchez this and Sanchez that.

      Brendan was asked about it in the presser. Sky ran an advert about how missing out on Sanchez would come back to haunt us.

      Yet, watching today's match you would have thought that Markovic was the big money signing and Sanchez the one with potential.

      I'm strugging to recall what Sanchez actually did in today's game apart from fall over to win the free kick.

      True but only insofar as today's game. Over the course of the season, especially the season so far, we could have done with those nine goals he's scored so far. Like I've been saying all season, our problems never stemmed from who we signed, but from whom we didn't sign.
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #78: Jan 01, 2015 10:25:28 pm
      If it's true that Gerrard is off at the end of the season he should be dropped as a regular starter.

      There's absolutely no point crowbar ring him in and then having to learn to play without him next season all over again.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #79: Jan 01, 2015 10:29:01 pm
      If it's true that Gerrard is off at the end of the season he should be dropped as a regular starter.

      There's absolutely no point crowbar ring him in and then having to learn to play without him next season all over again.

      Your first ever post that everyone will agree with! How does that feel?   >:D
      MIRO
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #80: Jan 01, 2015 10:29:26 pm
      How did the afternoon go at the Arndale  HB ?
      srslfc
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #81: Jan 01, 2015 10:35:47 pm
      If it's true that Gerrard is off at the end of the season he should be dropped as a regular starter.

      There's absolutely no point crowbar ring him in and then having to learn to play without him next season all over again.

      Totally agree.

      I have a feeling it won't happen though.

      The boss always seems a bit star struck by Stevie.
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #82: Jan 01, 2015 10:42:35 pm
      Your first ever post that everyone will agree with! How does that feel?   >:D

      Not sure about that - there are still plenty of the "Stevie is a LEGE" crowd who disagree.

      How did the afternoon go at the Arndale  HB ?

      What are you blathering about now?

      The only thing I'm sure about is that, as usual, it has nothing to do with the thread title.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #83: Jan 01, 2015 10:46:20 pm
      Not sure about that - there are still plenty of the "Stevie is a LEGE" crowd who disagree.


      You can't argue with the fact he is Legend, the best ever in my books, but his time has come to move over for the next legend.
      MIRO
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #84: Jan 01, 2015 10:47:18 pm

      What are you blathering about now?

      The only thing I'm sure about is that, as usual, it has nothing to do with the thread title.

      Facht .

      1 You only come out at night.

      2 You never follow the match thread.

      3 Your taste in clothes leaves much to be desired if thats where you shop.



      Keep Up  or  Off You F**k  to coin a phrase.

      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #85: Jan 01, 2015 10:51:05 pm
      Facht .

      1 You only come out at night.

      2 You never follow the match thread.

      3 Your taste in clothes leaves much to be desired if thats where you shop.



      Keep Up  or  Off You F**k  to coin a phrase.

      Eh?

      I really hope the mods do something about you jamming threads with this pointless bollocks.

      Your trolling is not only boring but doesn't even make sense.
      MIRO
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #86: Jan 01, 2015 11:08:29 pm
      Eh?

      I really hope the mods do something about you jamming threads with this pointless bollocks.

      Your trolling is not only boring but doesn't even make sense.

      It makes sense to most H.B. ......
      srslfc
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #87: Jan 01, 2015 11:17:49 pm
      It makes sense to most H.B. ......

      To be fair Skip many people avoid the match thread for various reasons.

      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #88: Jan 01, 2015 11:27:23 pm
      I doubt it.

      in answer to your "points":

      1. I tend to work during the day so that's why I login when I've finished at night - what that has to do with the thread title I don't know.

      2. I think I've posted in most match threads this season so your "fact" is wrong - if I'm at the game, watching in a pub or round at my mates house I don't - what that has to do with the thread title I don't know.

      3. You asked me how the Arndale was because I have "terrible taste in clothes if I shop there" - doesn't make any sense and has nothing to do with the thread title.


      Most people come on here to discuss matters pertaining to the football not to decipher your bizarre and irrelevant posts.

      Now go bore someone else.
      MIRO
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #89: Jan 01, 2015 11:54:23 pm
      To be fair Skip many people avoid the match thread for various reasons.



      Not surprised on current form.

      ( PS 
      Looks like HB spent the last hour obsessively trying to find the post. 
      He found it.
      He gets the gold star for his exercise book.
      Amazing what you can get people to do on a winters evening )
      redkenny
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      Re: Why are we so bad at handling player transitions?
      Reply #90: Jan 02, 2015 12:12:29 am
      I think the opening post to this thread is one of the most important and valuable questions that can be asked - not only for a football club, but for anything or anyone who wants to continue and sustain success.

      Well in for bringing it up, HB.

      Quote
      If identifying, buying ,coaching and disposing of top level players is the difference between a good and a great club then why have we done so badly despite hiring the best coach in Europe (RB), a club legend (KD), an experienced English coach (RH) or an ambitious up and comer (BR) and how do we improve our performance in this regard?

      I think this answers the question in part. It goes to show that it's not entirely down to the manager to ensure a smooth transition. You already know that, though.

      For me, the scouting system needs to be of an extremely high standard. I don't mean having the best software that produces top analysis about player stats and all that business. That can help of course, but it's not the vital ingredient. You need a big team of people that you can trust with your life. You need that team of scouts to have a passion about their job and have a knack for being really inquisitive. If you've only got a handful of people who are giving one hundred percent in that team, you're going to miss out on vital replacements and players with honesty, quality and ability to fit in.

      I firmly believe that's what the difference was a few decades ago when Paisley was about.

      All the rest such as agent fees and financial backing for the manager are things that can be worked around. It's all about preparation and homework, for me.

       

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