Fabian Delph (Aston Villa)

take off the red-tinted glasses.

both are shockingly average.

only difference is, one plays for us, the other plays for.... not us.

so we tend to rate our sh*te better than other sh*te.

But sh*te is sh*te in the end.

Hendo is the better player. That's just accepted fact I think really. Delph runs about and fouls his way through games. Hendo has the better game understanding, better discipline, he's much more versatile, creates more, and scores more goals than Fabian Delph. All of which at a younger age. Those are the differences.

We nearly won a league title with Henderson. Things only went to pot when he missed the last three games. Admittedly that was his own fault.

How can you be shockingly average by the way?

Surely no one is really comparing Delph to Hendo.  I'm not suggesting Hendo is some sort of miracle worker but last season when he was suspended, those last three games went pear shaped for us. 
He's a lot better, and will get a lot better.  His attitude to his work is first rate.

Surely no one is really comparing Delph to Hendo.  I'm not suggesting Hendo is some sort of miracle worker but last season when he was suspended, those last three games went pear shaped for us. 
He's a lot better, and will get a lot better.  His attitude to his work is first rate.

Comparisons are applicable as both are considered box-box?

But I do agree, Hendo is better, but also, I can see it from federer's point and understand why he doesn't rate Hendo. Let's be honest, he isn't a fantastic ball playing footballer for a midfield player, he's more like a Kuyt but in midfielder.

Comparisons are applicable as both are considered box-box?

But I do agree, Hendo is better, but also, I can see it from federer's point and understand why he doesn't rate Hendo. Let's be honest, he isn't a fantastic ball playing footballer for a midfield player, he's more like a Kuyt but in midfielder.

I can't understand why he doesn't rate Hendo. I mean if he'd only seen those few games where he was played out of position maybe I'd have sympathy, but if he'd actually watched Hendo from last season to now, the only way I think a reasonable person could describe Hendo would be "top talent"

I can't understand why he doesn't rate Hendo. I mean if he'd only seen those few games where he was played out of position maybe I'd have sympathy, but if he'd actually watched Hendo from last season to now, the only way I think a reasonable person could describe Hendo would be "top talent"

Then maybe you only started watching us last season.

Let me recap his career thus far.

2011/2012 - utter rubbish
2012/2013 - utter rubbish
first half of 13/14 - utter rubbish

then, around December of 2013, when Stevie got injured, Hendo came out of his shell.  I remember the 5-0 game in particular away at Spurs when he absolutely ran the show.  Something changed then.

second half of 13/14 - top talent

Thus far in 14/15 - back to being utter rubbish

So, essentially for the first two seasons of his LFC career, he was terrible.  He was so bad that Rodgers wanted to offload him for a cut price fee to Fulham.  He has been pretty poor this season as well.  That means that really the only time he has been anything other than terrible was a 6 month period from December of 2013 - May of 2014. 

There are a lot of ways to look at it; maybe it was a blip on the radar and the "real" Henderson is the one who has been terrible 80% of his Liverpool career.  Maybe he couldn't handle the pressure on a consistent basis and that's why he's gone back to his normal self.  I don't know, it's not my job to analyze "why" he has gone back to his poor version of himself.  I just know that it is happening. 

Is Henderson the world's worst midfielder?  no!  far from it.  But I never argued that.

All I said was that he is about the same level as Delph.  But Delph plays for Villa so people assume he's not good enough, and that Henderson is somehow miles better.  He's not.  Henderson, Allen, Delph, Colback etc, they're all about the same level. 

there was an interesting book that came out not too long ago called "The Wisdom of Crowds."  interesting read.  It didn't present a new theory but moreso showed a lot of statistical and anecdotal information to support a certain theory, i.e., that large groups of people tend to approximate truth more accurately than any individual would have done.

I think the same thing applies here.  Take Suarez for example.  He was public enemy number one in England for much of his stay with us.  The "racism" incident with Evra, the Ivanovic bite, the diving, all of it.  And yet even our fiercest rivals would readily admit that he was world class. 

The same thing goes for players like Sterling and Coutinho.  Do you ever hear supporters of other clubs say "oh that Sterling isn't very good"?  no.  because it's F***ing obvious what a talent he is.  And they know it, whether they support us or not.  The "crowd", in this case a combination of our own (biased) supporters and other (non-biased) non-LFC supporters, together approximate something very close to the truth; everyone realized Suarez was world class, everyone realizes Sterling is world class etc etc.

My point is: you almost never hear anyone other than LFC supporters say "oh yea that Jordan Henderson is a fantastic midfielder."  never. 

So which is more likely?  that everyone else in the world is wrong, and that Henderson really is a top talent?  or that those same people who see the talent in Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho etc, just don't see it in Henderson because.... it's not there?

I think we know the answer.

I think what's going on here is that people really want Henderson to succeed.  He was such rubbish for his first two seasons and he got so much stick that people felt sorry for him.  And when he finally played like a top player for 6 months last season, everyone jumped on the bandwagon because he is a nice lad and works hard and they really want him to do well.  that's understandable.

But the reality is his talent doesn't match his workrate, and he's really not that good.  and I think even most of our supporters realize that.  but he keeps his head down and works hard and seems dedicated so they don't want to criticize him.

unfortunately we need to win.  And we can't be sentimental. 

We need top midfielders.  Henderson isn't one.  I don't think Delph is either.  I just don't like the red-tinted glasses of those who think that somehow Delph is so much worse than Henderson.  It is just more of the "my sh*te smells better than your sh*te" stuff that plagues us on the field again and again.

Comparisons are applicable as both are considered box-box?

But I do agree, Hendo is better, but also, I can see it from federer's point and understand why he doesn't rate Hendo. Let's be honest, he isn't a fantastic ball playing footballer for a midfield player, he's more like a Kuyt but in midfielder.

Hendo's ability on the ball is in a entirely different level to Kuyt's. And Delph's for that matter.

Hendo's ability on the ball is in a entirely different level to Kuyt's. And Delph's for that matter.

Hendo's biggest drawback is either his lack of faith in his own ability or his conservatism, his passing range is impressive, but he rarely employs it because of the two stated reasons or a combination of them both.

Hendo's biggest drawback is either his lack of faith in his own ability or his conservatism, his passing range is impressive, but he rarely employs it because of the two stated reasons or a combination of them both.

Totally agree Rodders.

The ability is there for anyone willing enough to see it.

Confidence is his biggest weakness.

Henderson is in Gerrards shadow, he just needs some more confidence and someone to show him how not to shoot consistently over the goal and he'll be a superb midfielder.

snip

Federer, there is such a vast sea of sh*te you've just posted, I'm not sure I have the stamina to argue with you. The effort it would require just isn't worth it. On another day, perhaps, but today I'm just going to smile and nod.

Hendo's biggest drawback is either his lack of faith in his own ability or his conservatism, his passing range is impressive, but he rarely employs it because of the two stated reasons or a combination of them both.

Agree with this. The number of successful backheels Henderson pulled off last season when he was full of confidence is just one example. Henderson does have ability (besides shooting -- he always skies them). He just never seems to be able to bring it out of himself.

".  And yet even our fiercest rivals would readily admit that he was world class. 

I bet you that most of our rivals rate Henderson higher than you think as well..

Here's a news flash for you.. No club in the history of the game is built on 11 players of the ability or more aptly the standout levels of Luis Suarez, Henderson has far more ability and influence than you credit him for, either again you are looking for reaction or you don't know the game.. I don't actually think it's the second one for what it's worth.

I'm not going to get into a long debate about it with you as it's for one the wrong thread to discuss Henderson's attributes and also it gives you what you are after but I will say two things

Brendan seemingly had the same opinion you did when he walked through the door, but here we are 2 and a bit years later and he is his vice captain and soon to be captain and a vital member of his side
His teammates have obvious respect for him.. They wouldn't have that if he was joe average and not worth his place.

Great squads through the history of the game are littered with Henderson type players, they may not be the most obvious stand out players, they may not look great in highlights packages.. But they are vital components of successful squads.

Henderson is currently vice captain of Liverpool, he has captained all through his national levels so far.. You say people need to take off their red tinted glasses... Maybe you need to actually think at times, the players you constantly name at lower clubs that you for some reason think will come here and be either a Suarez type or if not that better than a Henderson.. The grass isn't always greener.. Maybe we need to target more Suarez types to compliment the other elements of the squad rather than bemoan those elements that in truth are far better than given the credit for and are often taken for granted.

Henderson gets for me some unnecessary stick.. He is a better player than Delph

I'm not quite sure what your point is.  I don't think that Lallana is by any means a bad player.  But he's hardly set the world alight.  A couple of good performances, a goal here or there.  I think he's definitely the most "successful" of the summer transfers, although that isn't really saying much.

And yes, I think Cabella is better than Lallana.  have you actually seen Cabella play?  he's a very good player.  At the very least, if you put Cabella into our XI, he wouldn't do any WORSE than Lallana.  Again that's no dig at Lallana necessarily, as I don't think he's been terrible.  but yes I think Cabella is better.  Would've cost a quarter of Lallana's fee at that.

Anyway yes Delph is no worse than Henderson.

some people need to take the rose-tinted glasses off.  Get behind the players at the matches sure, but if you are so blind that you would rather we keep poor players instead of bringing in better ones then indeed you don't really want what is best for the club.

Delph is no worse than Henderson.  but that's not to say Delph is good enough; I don't think either is good enough for our club to be honest.  But if Henderson and his sideways/backward passing is suddenly an acceptable standard then surely Delph can't be scoffed at.

I'd rather my glasses be tinted rosy than federer doom and gloom army green.
You do seem to like every teams players more than LFC's so... why not just change the team you support?

This thread resembles every bit like Bertrand during summer... no real 'sources' but ppl engage in war of words for no bloody reason!

Like many players, Delph has the physical attributes, but also like many players he lacks the mentality needed.

When he stays calm and composed, he looks decent. Not great, but decent.
I haven't seen many instances of him staying calm and controlled though.

Bottom line is, if we are targeting the likes of Delph, and seriously think he offers any level of improvement to our staring 11, we truly have become a mid table team with little ambition.
We will never aspire to compete with the likes of City, Rent boys, scum, or the arse. We will be a side that occasionally beats one of the 'top four' and will sometimes get a run of results that get us temporarily in the top 4 before the reality kicks in.
See Southampton, West Ham, spuds.
Can anyone seriously see Delph as a player capable of taking us to the next level. i.e. Advancing in the CL or even getting us back in there ?
It's another poor choice by the boss or committee and far below the quality we need to prove the side. As for a replacment for Gerrard ?
You gotta be having a laugh !
If we can't get too quality in, better stick with what we've got. No point in spending millions to stay at the same level.
Anyone think Delph would walk into saints starting 11 let alone cities or rent boys !

this guy is over rated and not good enough for liverpool. he's on the same level as Allen ability wise just a little quicker and can cross. we need to start looking at established players which dont always have to be british. we need to beef up the midfield and add players similar to CAN who can also play in defence as we have enough slight in frame creative players. Now is the time to make us hard to break down by adding big physical players who are technical also. Players like Diame,Alex Song, Dembelle those types of players who have a natural defensive ability but good on the ball. Bring back Mascarano if we could

this guy is over rated and not good enough for liverpool. he's on the same level as Allen ability wise just a little quicker and can cross. we need to start looking at established players which dont always have to be british. we need to beef up the midfield and add players similar to CAN who can also play in defence as we have enough slight in frame creative players. Now is the time to make us hard to break down by adding big physical players who are technical also. Players like Diame,Alex Song, Dembelle those types of players who have a natural defensive ability but good on the ball. Bring back Mascarano if we could

The bold bit is the only accurate bit in this post about Delph.
For starters its a bit weird to talk about a player who practically no-one rates highly as overrated, but that's a semantic quibble.

Allen is significantly better than Delph, and is also faster. Delph isn't a strong crosser or even someone who attempts crosses often.

You suggest getting players who are big and technical. Whilst I don't rate Delph highly, and you do suggest better alternatives (e.g. Song), if one were to describe his rather limited strengths, it would be his strength and technical ability. He is a surprisingly good dribbler.

You've come to the right conclusion (in my opinion anyway) but without ever having watched the chap play it seems.

GET IN MY SON!

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4440620,00.html

GET IN MY SON!

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4440620,00.html

Haha is right.

GET IN MY SON!

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4440620,00.html

Damn it!! Was hoping he would be the Gerrard replacement!!!!!!!

And Relax.

Oh that's fantastic news, pheewwww.