Do We Lack Scouse Mentality?

I certainly think so.

Age may have lessened Gerrard's ability, but the match against Basle last month was one where - once again - he seemed intent on taking by the scruff of the neck. He didn't look nervous, looked assured - looked every bit like the leader we've seen over the years. Now if only the rest of them had that mentality, we would have won. Too many advanced positions and good movement was squandered by an inability of composure and nervousness in that match I seem to remember.

But with Gerrard leaving, the mentality is going to take a severe beating I fear. Lambert's attitude is perfect, sadly he doesn't seem cut out for us at the moment and looks like a fish out of water after a long long absence from the club,  but lets not forget Jon Flanagan.

I thought Flanagan displayed that typical lionhearted fearless scouse mentality when he came in last year - his ability to slot right in, work his sock off and look as if he'd worn the shirt for years quickly made him a fans favourite. He looked top quality at times. That attitude was perfectly exemplified by Carragher and Gerrard, and I'd like to think many of the lads coming through the youth system such as Rossiter display these qualities too.

Of course, the players have to have ability to make the grade. I'm in no way suggesting we just fill the squad with Liverpudlians because that's getting us nowhere, but it highlights how essential our youth academy is. Even those players who lacked ability made up for it in passion - Jay Spearing who ultimately lacked the ability would nevertheless put 110% and that attitude (and for sure we would all have rather had him than Charlie Adam), along with Kenny Dalglish's appointment provided us with the immediate kick up the arse after the soulless Roy Hodgson. We need players on the doorstep who understand the importance of the football club. Local lads have that embedded mentality from the culture and upbringing in Liverpool.

If we can't get quality local lads into the side in the next few years, then it will be to the detriment of the club and its direction. The Carraghers and the Gerrards provide the perfect template of what is mentally required of a Liverpool player. It gives us an identity which prods us in the right direction of what we look for in a player. So its no wonder that with the Scouse identity, it has prodded us in the right direction seeking out similar quality players from abroad or closer to home (as was the case with Dalglish) who will bust a gut for the club and take full responsibility for their actions. It's no wonder we have a winners mentality - that has been bred from the scouse mentality upon which the club and its success was founded. I pray the likes of Rossiter and co come through the ranks - we desperately need the character.

The current batch don't nearly have the mentality. They may show signs of ability, but a million Steve Peters won't turn them into captains. Without any local influence, the club may lack direction and become increasingly aimless in its quest for success.

I have been a soccer fan for quite some time but have only REALLY been into it for the past 5-6 years. Learning how deep the levels go have been really fun to watch.

I agree with you about home grown players. It is very similar to baseball/MLB teams here in the USA. It seems as if these things come in waves. Teams get good for about 5-6 years, then those players get older and drop off and they aren't AS successful for a few years, then 10 years later the cycle repeats its self. I think younger homegrown players take on the attitude of their town. Soccer is a LOT different that baseball in this respect but it is still seen.

I agree with you, that until our youth program is ready to become 'the next big one' we will have a little struggle and be middle of the table.I just hope we haven't hit our plateau after last years finish!

Not sure about lacking Scouse mentality but we certainly are mentally weak as a team, no other way to describe losing 2 goals to the team at the bottom of the league!

Yea we do now...

When you have been with any club as a boy, then teen, then full on 1st team player, there is gonna be a massive amount of pride in wearing the shirt. Whatever club you play for. Also a desire and determination to keep that place in the side. Especially nowadays when that place is under threat from ' foreign superstar' imports.  We need to retain some of that pride and desire in the side, so desperately need the next local lad to make the transition.
 I'm not sure if i'm being bias, just telling it as I see it, but the liverpool players coming through, seem to have that little bit more passion for me. Definitely need one or two in the side thats for sure. It remains a part of our identity. Would hate to finish up like Citeh or the arse.  Although the arse have got better lately, after being the first prem side to field a side full of foreigners.
Flano needs a local lad who can understand him on the pitch anyway. 

The local lads who go on to play for Liverpool have the passion and love of club bred into them.
Their families might be Liverpool or Everton fans, or as is common, loyalty is split between the two clubs because we have two great football communities that form one football family in Liverpool. 
The local lads are brought up on the home and workplace banter that exists in this great city. 
The passion is like a 'passion transfusion' if I can describe it that way.  It enters the blood stream at a very early age.  I hope Flanno recovers and returns, and that Jordan Rossiter can soon make an impact.  Personally I think Hendo has the passion too all though he is not from Liverpool but from another part of the world where they take their football pretty seriously, just look at his reaction when he scores a goal.  Thats a lad who takes a pride in who he plays for, and pride is a good starting point for any activity passionately pursued.

At times I think our Academy is too concerned in bringing in 'exciting 15 year olds' from overseas than developing further local players.

Only senior player in the side, and probably not even a guaranteed first team starter is Flanagan.

Sad to see and a sad indictment really on the Academy which start with players well before they are 10.

The local lads who go on to play for Liverpool have the passion and love of club bred into them.

Sad truth is that many of those 10 year olds from the area are now priced out of the game and have little experience of what it feels like to support the club amongst passionate fans.

If the players are good enough and mentally strong enough it doesn't matter if they come from toxteth or Tonga.

2 things this topic raises for me is

1) Our players are not mentally strong enough and I've said this for a long time.

2) our academy is getting praise for....nothing really. It's sending nothing through

At times I think our Academy is too concerned in bringing in 'exciting 15 year olds' from overseas than developing further local players.

Only senior player in the side, and probably not even a guaranteed first team starter is Flanagan.

Sad to see and a sad indictment really on the Academy which start with players well before they are 10.

Sad truth is that many of those 10 year olds from the area are now priced out of the game and have little experience of what it feels like to support the club amongst passionate fans.

Totally agree with the highlighted bit, been saying it for years.

the club does not have a scouse heartbeat any more. we cannot expect the players to have everything else out of their minds and be focused 110% on putting in a shift for the famous red shirt. we need scousers and the right football people back in the club. I hope we have the right manager and owners who are putting the right foundations in place, but I don't know.

1) Our players are not mentally strong enough and I've said this for a long time.

This is evident lately. Bang on. Why though? Surely being able to kick a ball badly is not the only remit our scouts have? Surely we should know everything about the player before we buy them. I mean everything.... Looking at Can for instance... You can see that chap has metal. Lambert, Aspas, Borini.... Look like they sh*t themselves when they are called upon.

Buy zeee germans before they are all sold.

Its hard to argue with the whole Scouse mentality thing when you think about players like Carra, Stevie, God, Owen  . But then you can look at players like Kuyt, Hamann, Rise, Sami, and managers like Rafa and Houllier to know that you don't have to be Scouse to love Liverpool.

I think it's very important to have some local lads in the team, but it more important to have committed players in the team.

Sounds like the same xenophobic rhetoric people on talk sport use when talking about the national team

"WHERES THE PASSION" "TOO MANY FOREGINERS IN THE LEAGUE"  "LETS GET STEVE MCLAREN IN, HE'S ENGLISH HE KNOWS THE PLAYERS" oh wait....

Scouse mentality...

Don't work - check.
Hire foreigners to do the work we don't want to do - check.
Thieve what we can't get - check.
Tell everybody how good we are, even when we're not - check.
Get moaned at for our appearances - check.
Whinge about southeners having more money than us - check.
Tell everybody to calm down because it'll all be alright eventually - check.
But in the meantime feel sorry for ourselves - check.
And blame everybody else for our plight - check.
Laugh at other Scousers misfortune because it's worse than ours - check.

I'd say we've got the Scouse mentality down to a tee.

In the modern game I don't think it's important to have local lads in the team. It's nice, but it's not necessary.

In past 20 years or so, just three of our own have been of a world class status - Fowler, Gerrard and Owen.

The likes of Carragher may well be a local hero and it's a sentimental feeling seeing him lift the European cup, but he has never been world class. There will be posters on here who will argue that you need those sort of players like Carragher who give you grit, hard work and determination and so on but the very best teams I have ever seen had had a world class player in EVERY position.

Maybe it is the fault of the academy for not giving more local lads opportunities and looking overseas or at other clubs instead but the rare times we have given our own a chance such as David Thompson,  Jay Spearing, Stephen Warnock, Stephen Wright, Neil Mellor (not scouse but from the acad) and more recently Robinson & Kelly...... the harsh reality is they weren't good enough.

Scouse mentality...

Don't work - check.
Hire foreigners to do the work we don't want to do - check.
Thieve what we can't get - check.
Tell everybody how good we are, even when we're not - check.
Get moaned at for our appearances - check.
Whinge about southeners having more money than us - check.
Tell everybody to calm down because it'll all be alright eventually - check.
But in the meantime feel sorry for ourselves - check.
And blame everybody else for our plight - check.
Laugh at other Scousers misfortune because it's worse than ours - check.

I'd say we've got the Scouse mentality down to a tee.

Maybe the loss of players with a winning mentality is more of a problem.

Maybe the loss of players with a winning mentality is more of a problem.

To be honest mate, the problem is the over complicating of things. When we were successful we kept everything simple, now we're constantly trying to be too clever.

That goes from the owners with their stats based signings and committee. Rodgers with his funny tactics and fancy speak. And the players with their unneeded risks.

"Football is a simple game"

To be honest mate, the problem is the over complicating of things. When we were successful we kept everything simple, now we're constantly trying to be too clever.

That goes from the owners with their stats based signings and committee. Rodgers with his funny tactics and fancy speak. And the players with their unneeded risks.

"Football is a simple game"

So you would suggest "Buy good players. Play good players in a system that suits them"

Sounds F***ing crazy.

So you would suggest "Buy good players. Play good players in a system that suits them"

Sounds F***ing crazy.

I'd actually suggest "buy the right players and play them in the right system with the basis being on simplicity."

The right player becomes a good player, a good player doesn't necessarily become the right player.

I'd actually suggest "buy the right players and play them in the right system with the basis being on simplicity."

The right player becomes a good player, a good player doesn't necessarily become the right player.

Now that is a top quote by the way!!

hope BR read this thread!!

I'd actually suggest "buy the right players and play them in the right system with the basis being on simplicity."

The right player becomes a good player, a good player doesn't necessarily become the right player.

As soon as I'd posted that I thought you might say something like this.
Very true.

"Football is a simple game"

The right player becomes a good player, a good player doesn't necessarily become the right player.

Bang on. A lot of pundits and it would seem, coaches & managers try to over complicate things. Why? to make themselves look intelligent? :S Football really isn't rocket science, is it?

Does it take a genius to figure out Balotelli was wrong for us? That Adam is crap? Downing an average player or Cole was finished? Is it really that difficult to see that Messi would be more effective playing in the middle than as a left wide player, or playing Lucas as a box-box is wrong? I could go on and on and on.

I'd actually suggest "buy the right players and play them in the right system with the basis being on simplicity."

The right player becomes a good player, a good player doesn't necessarily become the right player.

Now there's a novel suggestion Billy 

Perhaps not enough local talent allowed to come through, with too many so called "overseas stars" shipped in to try to bring instant success, which as we all know does not always bring the right results.

How many 'local' English players played in the 1986 FA Cup Final vs everton?

Great article here on Scouse mentality.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/05/liverpool-fan-rescues-leicester-city-reddit-officeplum
Love how he went with no cash, as thought could be jacked

Great article here on Scouse mentality.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/05/liverpool-fan-rescues-leicester-city-reddit-officeplum
Love how he went with no cash, as thought could be jacked

What a fab story.....shows the true spirit of us Scousers  Proud to be a Scouse xxx

I've always thought of Scousers as passionate, honest and determined. I can see a little bit of that in the team at the minute, but we need to see a lot more to turn things around.

For this reason I would have Flanagan playing when fit over other players. Liverpool should be trying to get at least two locals in the team. Lambert was a good initial effort and he may not work out but we should keep trying.

No, we do not lack a Scouse mentality, what we lack are quality players.

Unfortunately they can go missing at the same time with the departure of Carragher and Gerrard.

Yes we do lack scouse leaders, all teams should have to field 4 local lads or something like that, or kids who came through the reserves. Real leaders on the pitch would make a hell of a difference for these young players and not make them bottle it.
The identity of the club depends on Players from Liverpool being in the starting team.

did i just walk back into the dark ages?

Sorry but there's no way you can tell me someone on £150,000 a week can relate anymore to the Scouse mentality.

You can claim all you want that so-and-so has a "true Scouse mentality" but money changes everything.  Players like Stevie and Carra have a lot more in common with Suarez and Messi than they do anymore with the man on the street.

Sorry but there's no way you can tell me someone on £150,000 a week can relate anymore to the Scouse mentality.

You can claim all you want that so-and-so has a "true Scouse mentality" but money changes everything.  Players like Stevie and Carra have a lot more in common with Suarez and Messi than they do anymore with the man on the street.

Sorry, but you can't tell me the likes of Gerrard and Carra can't relate to Scouse mentality because they earn 150,000 pound a week.

Sorry, but you can't tell me the likes of Gerrard and Carra can't relate to Scouse mentality because they earn 150,000 pound a week.

They can only relate to it vaguely as something they felt when they were growing up.  It has no relevance in their lives anymore as much as we would like for it to be true. 

There are many posters on here and fans worldwide who support Liverpool with a strong passion and they have no association with Merseyside whatsoever.

I'm from and live in Liverpool and would love to see a few scousers in the team but if another player comes along who has far more quality but gives an equal amount of effort then I'd pick him every time.

Our players don't need to be scouse. They just need to understand what it takes to represent Liverpool.

Our players don't need to be scouse. They just need to understand what it takes to represent Liverpool.

Suarez embodied the Scouse mentality better than anyone while he was here.  He never stopped fighting, never gave up, always gave 100% on the pitch, got stuck in, and was never afraid.  He was as much of a blue-collar footballer on the pitch as one could possibly be. 

In purely footballing terms Suarez was more Scouse than Stevie.  We all know Stevie often drifts in and out of games, and other times is completely invisible.  Whereas I don't think anyone here could ever think of one single game where Suarez drifted out or was invisible.  He was always at 100%.  He was the embodiment of Scouse mentality and it's a pity he's not around anymore to let that approach rub off on some of our current lot who seem to flip a coin before each game to decide whether or not they'll play with grit and determination.

Suarez embodied the Scouse mentality better than anyone while he was here.  He never stopped fighting, never gave up, always gave 100% on the pitch, got stuck in, and was never afraid.  He was as much of a blue-collar footballer on the pitch as one could possibly be. 

In purely footballing terms Suarez was more Scouse than Stevie.  We all know Stevie often drifts in and out of games, and other times is completely invisible.  Whereas I don't think anyone here could ever think of one single game where Suarez drifted out or was invisible.  He was always at 100%.  He was the embodiment of Scouse mentality and it's a pity he's not around anymore to let that approach rub off on some of our current lot who seem to flip a coin before each game to decide whether or not they'll play with grit and determination.

Agree with you about Luis. It's a shame we don't have more, well anybody else in all honesty, who gives the same amount of effort that Luis gave.

You're being harsh on Stevie though and I don't think you can compare him to Suarez, there is no comparison for me. If Zola rolled a free kick and Jimmy Floyd was lining up one of his absolute rocket shots, who out of Luis and Steven would you trust to close that ball down?

Luis liked winding up defenders and giving just as much as he got, but if it came down to it then I think just one out the two of them would die for Liverpool FC and I'm pretty certain I know which.

I've said this before, so apologize for repeating myself, it isn't about Scousers, it's about leaders. Shanks, Bob, Kenny, Jockey, Souness, etc. None of them Scousers. All of them responsible for our greatest era.

While local flavor would be definitely be nice, I'd really just like us to assemble the best 25-man squad in the world regardless of where they came from.

Don't really get how wanting Liverpool players who are strong mentally in the team where I live equals that supporters or players from other parts aren't fully welcomed. It just should be a prerequisite that a certain percentage of a teams players come from the area.
It's racist to say you want people from Liverpool playing for Liverpool from grass roots ?
Get real. Everyone is welcome, I am used to local heroes. After Gerrard leaves we'll only have Flanagan (love the lad n all that)? By we; I mean, the club not Liverpoodlians. Surely some of you from other regions can see why I or others would be going wtf is this sh*t about.

What is this? International football or something, where everyone must be from (or links to) the one place?

What we need is silverware. Whether that comes by footballers from Liverpool or countries we've never heard of, it doesn't matter.

I've said this before, so apologize for repeating myself, it isn't about Scousers, it's about leaders. Shanks, Bob, Kenny, Jockey, Souness, etc. None of them Scousers. All of them responsible for our greatest era.

While local flavor would be definitely be nice, I'd really just like us to assemble the best 25-man squad in the world regardless of where they came from.

And throw in Lawler, Byrne, Smith, Callaghan, Thompson, Lee, McDermott, Case, Fairclough, Johnson. You've got a fair bit of the Scouse mentality there.

Not to mention Joe Fagan, Roy Evans and Ronnie Moran on the bench.

We need people from Liverpool in the team that's it, end of, that people from the area can look up to. Any other pc political bullshit is really just over doing it.
If you don't get that then you don't get life.
Support your local team (wherever you live) and see it's got no locals in it and go whoa what the hell is going on here?
We need more scousers.

I'm Scottish and a Liverpool fan, I take absolutely no exception to the idea the club and the playing squad require a Scouse character in order to represent the city today, the past and future.

For me the ideal Liverpool squad would be made up of the best Scousers in football, the best Brits in football and finally the last few places for the best of the rest of the world in football, the world class.

I feel the Scouse heart is vital to that and hopefully with hard work and luck the Academy can produce that.

What is this? International football or something, where everyone must be from (or links to) the one place?

What we need is silverware. Whether that comes by footballers from Liverpool or countries we've never heard of, it doesn't matter.

Your wrong mate,
Being local means you know more about the place where you are from, the culture, it's history, it's blood, you know more about it's people and how they live their lives, what is important to them,
In short , they will have their place in their hearts and will fight harder  & stronger to defend it,
That's what we will miss without the local influence, that's why the scouse in Liverpool has worked for centuries, because they look after their own,

That's why I love them , it's why I associate with them, I get where they come from, I get where there at, because where I'm from we are the same,
And it's a major factor why Liverpool FC are the most successful football club in Britain,

I'm a 'Weegie' btw, that means I'm from Glasgow, you might have heard of it, it's a small fishing village on the banks of the river Clyde 

YNWA

plenty local scouse mentality in this team http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FA_Cup_Final

How many 'local' English players played in the 1986 FA Cup Final vs everton?

plenty local scouse mentality in this team http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FA_Cup_Final

Did you not get enough responses the first time you posted it or something lad? 

How many 'local' English players played in the 1986 FA Cup Final vs everton?

How many 'local' players (we're scouse, not english remember!!) played in the 1977 European Cup Final vs Borussia Moechengladbach?

plenty local scouse mentality in this team http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FA_Cup_Final

Where? The only Liverpool born/English player was McMahon, and he did not get on the pitch.

Johnstone has an English flag against his name, but was born in South Africa.

I've said this before, so apologize for repeating myself, it isn't about Scousers, it's about leaders. Shanks, Bob, Kenny, Jockey, Souness, etc. None of them Scousers. All of them responsible for our greatest era.

While local flavor would be definitely be nice, I'd really just like us to assemble the best 25-man squad in the world regardless of where they came from.

So you've clearly forgotten Terry McDermott (Scouse) Ian Callaghan (scouse) Tommy Smith (Scouse) and the original Treble Winning Manager Joe Fagan (Scouse)

Where? The only Liverpool born/English player was McMahon, and he did not get on the pitch.

Johnstone has an English flag against his name, but was born in South Africa.

I think he was being a bit sarcastic mate.

Unless he's solely talking about Jan Molby!!

Your wrong mate,
Being local means you know more about the place where you are from, the culture, it's history, it's blood, you know more about it's people and how they live their lives, what is important to them,
In short , they will have their place in their hearts and will fight harder  & stronger to defend it,
That's what we will miss without the local influence, that's why the scouse in Liverpool has worked for centuries, because they look after their own,

And it's a major factor why Liverpool FC are the most successful football club in Britain,

YNWA

Nothing to do with it whatsoever.

This club is played, supported, and run by foreigners. That's the way it has to be these days unless you want us to go back to the Moores era. Personally I don't care where our players or fans are from as long as they're good players, doing well for us, and we're successful. That should be prioritised over all other criteria.

What is this? International football or something, where everyone must be from (or links to) the one place?

What we need is silverware. Whether that comes by footballers from Liverpool or countries we've never heard of, it doesn't matter.

It matters to me. I can't tell you it should matter to you, but a little part of me dies whenever a liverpool fan tells me being scouse doesn't matter.

Nothing to do with it whatsoever.

This club is played, supported, and run by foreigners. That's the way it has to be these days unless you want us to go back to the Moores era. Personally I don't care where our players or fans are from as long as they're good players, doing well for us, and we're successful. That should be prioritised over all other criteria.

Get to F**k

Scousers still the heartbeat of this club, not you F***ing Irish!!

It matters to me. I can't tell you it should matter to you, but a little part of me dies whenever a liverpool fan tells me being scouse doesn't matter.

If you want us to not compete for the world's best just so we can have a team of Rickie Lamberts playing, that's your view, but I agree to disagree.

Club football is a global game, and I never want us to become the Athletic Bilbao of the Premiership.

I love how on one level. Football fans will almost always get patriotic and xenophobic about having english players or 'local' players or 'too many foreigners'.

But if their team were to actually go out buy young english players these same fans would all be like "why do we buy this crappy english players" "we need ready made world class players." "would the likes of man u or chelsea be buying [english players name]".

There's nothing wrong with having local players in the side. But they have to earn their place on merit like everyone else, not because they live around the corner.

There's nothing wrong with having local players in the side. But they have to earn their place on merit like everyone else, not because they live around the corner.

Are you suggesting scouser's get a free pass into LFC? They fully deserve it if your not, Scouser's are the custodians of this club, the very fabric & heartbeat, any non scouser playing in the famous red jersey should be honoured to represent the people.

Unfortunatly there is nothing we can do about Scouse players coming through if there not good enough then there not good enough. But as we all know Liverpool is infamous for breeding top players and we have one or two potentials in the youth team. I would love us to take Barkley off the bitters as i feel he's the closest around to Gerrards style of agression etc shame he's a blue.