Brendans ideal midfield

Since Brendan arrived at the Club, there's been plenty of discussions on these boards about his philosophy, methods and playing style.  We've seen Stevie shifted back from his attacking role to that of playmaker and until recently, Lucas not even feature despite having a shaky defense with no protection in front to help out.  There's also been various discussions about the need for a defensive coach and also a better quality DM than Lucas, prior to his recent up turn in form.

With Stevie leaving in the summer and it looking more likely that Lucas will follow, we've been linked with players such as Delph and Milner as possible signings who we all know are nothing like the players we're losing in terms of quality and also where they play.

Bearing in mind that Brendan has never played with an out and out DM, that none of our youth teams play with one and in none of the transfer windows since he arrived have we made any effort to sign one, will we now get to see how he really wants us to play?

I thought Joe Allen was his defensive minded midfielder?

BR talks a lot about his defensive qualities anyway.

The ideal Rodgers midfield is:

Allen Allen Allen

or

Allen
Allen Allen

or

Allen Allen
Allen

or in a pinch

Britton Britton
Britton

MY ideal (realistic) midfield would be...

Song

Henderson - Cabaye

I thought Joe Allen was his defensive minded midfielder?

BR talks a lot about his defensive qualities anyway.

I think in an ideal world he was supposed to be Swab.

I don't think the other two in our midfield three have fitted into how Brendan would like them to if Joe was at the base.

He accommodated Gerrard there and I'm nor sure he's totally convinced by Lucas so those two gone in the summer and we might just see exactly how the boss wants us to play in midfield.

The ideal Rodgers midfield is:

Allen Allen Allen

or

Allen
Allen Allen

or

Allen Allen
Allen

or in a pinch

Britton Britton
Britton

F**k sake, beat me to it!

Song

Henderson - Cabaye

one of these does not belong with the other two; identify which one.

one of these does not belong with the other two; identify which one.

Let me guess.

One of our own that you're taking another chance to slag off?

I think in an ideal world he was supposed to be Swab.

I don't think the other two in our midfield three have fitted into how Brendan would like them to if Joe was at the base.

He accommodated Gerrard there and I'm nor sure he's totally convinced by Lucas so those two gone in the summer and we might just see exactly how the boss wants us to play in midfield.

It's odd because BR has turned to a Brazilian system of 1st (Lucas) and 2nd (Coutinho) Volantes to improve our results, and it has to be said it's worked to an extent (lacking a clinical finisher).
2 Brazilians, playing a system they were brought up with, which clearly works.

Maybe there is some favouritism there, because for me, Lucas has played far better than Allen in both defense and supporting the attack.
Allen likes to get in and around the box in wider positions, Lucas sits deeper and recycles the ball keeping attacks going.
OK, Lucas isn't as "dynamic" as Allen, but on the evidence so far he provides a much more solid base to build from.

Well, let's look how we replace quality starting players:

Reina - Mignolet
Agger - Lovren
Suarez - Balotelli / Lambert

So we can probably expect:

Gerrard - Delph
Lucas - Can

Even still people will defend FSG though, depressing how the true quality has been let go from this side without anything brought in to replace it.

Brendan's ideal midfield would be:

                               Khedira
                        Pogba     Coutinho

Too much too ask... of course it is with the ambition of our owners.

It's odd because BR has turned to a Brazilian system of 1st (Lucas) and 2nd (Coutinho) Volantes to improve our results, and it has to be said it's worked to an extent (lacking a clinical finisher).
2 Brazilians, playing a system they were brought up with, which clearly works.

Maybe there is some favouritism there, because for me, Lucas has played far better than Allen in both defense and supporting the attack.
Allen likes to get in and around the box in wider positions, Lucas sits deeper and recycles the ball keeping attacks going.
OK, Lucas isn't as "dynamic" as Allen, but on the evidence so far he provides a much more solid base to build from.

Agree with pretty much all of this.

Shows how good a player Lucas is though, despite many of his own fans thinking otherwise, when he keeps forcing his way into the side and we look better when he is there.

Allen isn't good enough to start for us on a permanent basis. He isn't a bad squad player to be fair but as we paid 15m for him he has turned into a poor signing. I'd bite any clubs hand off who are prepared to pay half of what we did.

Henderson is another squad player and doesn't have enough flair to be a permanent starter for us in a Brendan team. He could prove crucial in certain fixtures though with his energy.

Milner isn't an upgrade on Jordan and Delph is a downgrade. I'd love to see Cabaye here, he would be a great signing for us. Somebody who can put his foot on the ball and pass.

But Brendan has to build our midfield around Coutinho. He is easily our best player. I'd give him a free role behind the forwards where he is likely to cause the most damage.

                            Sturridge

Markovic               Coutinho             Sterling

                     Cabaye
                                     Lucas

Looks a bit weak and might get bullied against your evertons and your west hams but there is plenty of flair in that side alright.

I know I mentioned players by name and those have been picked up in some of the posts but I wasn't really wanting to discuss the names, more the system and how it's going to change.

I don't think Allen necessarily was/is Brendans ideal DM, he certainly wasn't at Swansea as he prefers to play a double pivot, rather than an out and out DM.  He also doesn't particularly like players who aren't versatile or who only have one role within the squad, like Lucas.

Right now, given we appear to be skint, Lucas and Hendo is our best 3-4-2-1 pair.
If we flog Lucas then it's Hendo and Can, although we might need a RCB then.

That's a very young midfield pairing.

Let me guess.  One of our own that you're taking another chance to slag off?

I'll help you out and take the secrecy away: it's Henderson.

Let it be known far and wide: Jordan Henderson is not good enough for our club.

for that matter neither is Allen.

Cabaye/Pogba/Khedira etc.  now that's who we should be going after.

Assuming we'll probably go back to 3 in midfield again at somepoint, but regardless we need 3 class mids.
Henderson definitely one
Can will be one
Lucas and Allen are average, Lucas likely to be sold this year at somepoint.
And with Gerrard going we need to bring a class midfielder...

Rumours that Liverpool scouts were at Sporting Lisbon's last game and that we're interested in William Carvalho, personally I think he would be a class signing at defensive mid and between him and Can we would be 100% sorted there.
Then in midfield we could see the likes of Coutinho playing a tad deeper like he has done a few times this season, but personally I'd love to sign Koke from Atletico, I know it would be VERY unlikely but what a midfield that would be.

Assuming we'll probably go back to 3 in midfield again at somepoint, but regardless we need 3 class mids.
Henderson definitely one
Can will be one
Lucas and Allen are average, Lucas likely to be sold this year at somepoint.
And with Gerrard going we need to bring a class midfielder...

Rumours that Liverpool scouts were at Sporting Lisbon's last game and that we're interested in William Carvalho, personally I think he would be a class signing at defensive mid and between him and Can we would be 100% sorted there.
Then in midfield we could see the likes of Coutinho playing a tad deeper like he has done a few times this season, but personally I'd love to sign Koke from Atletico, I know it would be VERY unlikely but what a midfield that would be.

Carvalho would be a great signing and a LFC fan allegedly, but they always are when wanting a move to a bigger club!

I'll help you out and take the secrecy away: it's Henderson.

Let it be known far and wide: Jordan Henderson is not good enough for our club.

for that matter neither is Allen.

Cabaye/Pogba/Khedira etc.  now that's who we should be going after.

Don't worry Fed. I got it mate.

I think you're wrong on Hendo.

Don't worry Fed. I got it mate. 

sometimes it helps to spell it out.  not for people like us, you and I are both blessed with amazing intellects.

it's for the ISIS members who support us, I know they read the forum and need things broken down into simple phrases for them, they're not too quick on the uptake like.

Agree with pretty much all of this.

Shows how good a player Lucas is though, despite many of his own fans thinking otherwise, when he keeps forcing his way into the side and we look better when he is there.

I think Lucas is an intelligent player, with excellent positioning and reading of the game.
On the downside, he isn't quick and isn't versatile in that he doesn't play different positions.
Hodgson wanted to sell him until he saw him in training, then realised just how good a player he is at what he does.
He seemingly wasn't in BR's plans, but forced his way in.
It would be a shame if he was sold, because Can is not ready for that position yet and Delph would be a joke.
So, unless BR finds a replacement who gives the same stability and defensive qualities, plus adds something extra I think getting rid would be a mistake.
BR wants us to play fluid, dynamic, attacking football and that's great, but as I've said before there's a reason why the best managers have always built from the back.
Can, Henderson and A.N. Other playing a staggered midfield 3 is his preferred system I think.
The staggered midfield 3 gives each player control of a zone across the width of the pitch, and can be very fluid, but it is also vulnerable. I'm assuming here that BR still works to his theory of each player owning his zone, with the pitch split laterally into 9 zones.

End result, we'll still have defensive problems unless BR gets the balance right, and perhaps modifies his zonal system, regardless of who comes in.

I think Lucas is an intelligent player, with excellent positioning and reading of the game.
On the downside, he isn't quick

I've been a huge critic of Lucas but watching his performances this season, it looks like he has somehow regained that step or two he lost after his surgery.

He had been looking so slow the last couple of seasons.  And of course he was never a speed demon anyway.  But it looks to me like he is a bit quicker this season. 

anyone else notice that?

I've been a huge critic of Lucas but watching his performances this season, it looks like he has somehow regained that step or two he lost after his surgery.

He had been looking so slow the last couple of seasons.  And of course he was never a speed demon anyway.  But it looks to me like he is a bit quicker this season. 

anyone else notice that?

I remember the match v City when he was monstering them, he is probably still not at that level but not far off.

I can imagine it takes a while physically and psychologically to get back to your peak.

I've been a huge critic of Lucas but watching his performances this season, it looks like he has somehow regained that step or two he lost after his surgery.

He had been looking so slow the last couple of seasons.  And of course he was never a speed demon anyway.  But it looks to me like he is a bit quicker this season. 

anyone else notice that?

I think he's stepping up earlier is all, and of course has finally got his match fitness back.
With some players, they need to be on the pitch a lot to get that sharpness, and I think that's all it is. Game time improves him in terms of sharpness and fitness/speed.

I've been a huge critic of Lucas but watching his performances this season, it looks like he has somehow regained that step or two he lost after his surgery.

He had been looking so slow the last couple of seasons.  And of course he was never a speed demon anyway.  But it looks to me like he is a bit quicker this season. 

anyone else notice that?

I've noticed it as well mate.

I've been a big fan of Lucas over the years but even I thoight his time here was up after the last injury as he seemes to struggle but he'd be a player I'd want to hang on to.

                       3 at the back

                              Can                     
             
                       Henderson

Lazar       Coutinho      Gerrard    Sterling

                     1 up top in Sturridge

          Allen
 Delph        Alberto

          Allen
 Delph        Alberto

J W like this.

          Allen
 Delph        Alberto

I'm assuming that this is some sort of criticism of our transfers or Rodgers, but if so*, it is quite misplaced (not least because it includes a player that we are only tentatively linked to).
It would be a fine backup midfield. Certainly quite a balanced one. I'd be worried if I saw all 3 play at once (because it means that we would be having an injury crisis), but it is more important to have the right players rather than the necessarily the best players.
I also think that Alberto is developing into a fine squad player from what I've seen of him this year and Allen has his use in the team. He is behind Lucas for me, but I also think he is very under-rated by many on here. A tidy player.

*if not apologies.

I've a hunch that Brendan has as his "ideal" midfield one that has quite a bit of energy, more so than we have had since he's been here. In point of fact one of the reasons I think he is such a clever coach is that is often to my mind making do and mending as far as his team is concerned, being pragmatic about his own beliefs and adapting in order to ensure we have the best chance of getting results.

We saw that last season when the changes were made in order to accomodate BOTH Suarez and Sturridge, which was completely at odds with the way Brendan had set up previously. He freely admitted he'd gone in with the premise of "how do I get all of my best players on the pitch at the same time?" rather than the "how can I make these players fit my system" which managers too often fall back on. Moving Gerrard back was another masterstroke, but as we saw this season without the pre-requisite pace and penetration up top it became too easy to box the captain in. Given that, the previously discarded and forgotten Lucas has been brought in, and within the 4-3-3 has probably IMHO been our best player over the last month or so.

Within the system now we are playing a genuine 3-4-3 which I can't remember seeing played in English football to the flavour which we are employing it. When your two "wing backs" are Moreno and Markovic, while your "3" up top are Sterling, Coutinho and Lallana, it really doesn't get much more attacking than that. Brendans desire for energy from the midfield can be seen by the way Lucas is playing within that system. He's not doing too bad either at getting forward to support, "recycling the ball" etc as has already been mentioned. Such is the Brazillians chronic lack of pace that I personally would definately ask him to sit in a bit more (as indeed Lucas has done for most his career) but he is obviously acting under orders and save for the occasional complete burn off when he gets isolated one on one, we're getting away with it.

I think Lucas's position during recent matches though reveals much about Brendans core beliefs, regardless of whether we're playing 3-4-3, 4-3-3 or anything else. Clearly he wants to regain posession high up, he wants to surround teams in attack while snuffing them out with the press in defence. I'm not sure we'll ever see an out and out defensive midfielder ala Song or Masherano under Brendan (although I personally would take either in a heartbeat). I think he does prefer the more up and down types, the Hendersons and Allens of this world taking centre stage. So longer term I think we will see a replacement for Lucas, and it may well be a Fabian Delph type. If it is, although Lucas is one of the most popular players on the board I'm sure a bit of extra mobilityin there wouldn't go amiss. One thing we would miss though if we made that particular straight swap is Lucas perceptive passing which has been at its best over the last few weeks. There's no hollywoods in there, but I'm fairly sure it is at a different level to anything I've seen from Delph on the couple of occasions I've seen him.


EDIT: I should also say as an add on that I think Delph is a very good player who could well become an excellent one, we could do a whole lot worse if we are in the market for a midfielder. It's a bit of an oldie, but if he was called Fabiano Delphinio many of the people on the boards who are currently slagging him off would be all over us getting him.

An ideal midfield would be : Bender - Koke/Verratti - Isco  - Reus - Sturridge - Sterling

A more plausible one would be : Cabaye/Clasie - Schneiderlin - Gundogan/Ayew - De Bruyne/Depay - Sturridge/Lacazette - Sterling

I've been a huge critic of Lucas but watching his performances this season, it looks like he has somehow regained that step or two he lost after his surgery.

He had been looking so slow the last couple of seasons.  And of course he was never a speed demon anyway.  But it looks to me like he is a bit quicker this season. 

anyone else notice that?

Notice that you were completely wrong? Yes.

Notice that you were completely wrong? Yes.

Some on here are so quick to write our players off even after they have proven their quality. Lucas and Hendo are two that spring to mind.

Some on here are so quick to write our players off even after they have proven their quality. Lucas and Hendo are two that spring to mind.

Skrtel and to a lesser extent Sakho as well.

It appears that Brendan may have found a system that fits ideally the way he wants to play with the players he has,

At the moment playing Ste up front alongside our temporary striker is working , to a degree, when Sturridge comes back in tho he will have to alter it , not a bad problem to have on all honesty,
But what happens next season ?

obviously no one knows what new recruits will be sought by then,
Anyway at present the midfield seems ok, but I'd like to see a trio of Lucas, Hendo & Can , forget your Pogbas, Khedeiras , Cabaye's etc , it ain't going to happen , wages (FSG) will see to that,

That trio plus 1/2 new quality midfielders + promotion within should be enough to see us thru ,
Coutinho will emerge as our main player so I think Brendan will build around him, a injury free Sturridge combined with , Sterling, Lallana , Markovic, Origi, backed by Can & Hendo with Lucas, or another sat in behind and a solid back 3 and a NEW KEEPER,
With 'the system' there is no reason to doubt that it won't be successful, like most things it will have weaknesses and won't always be ideal but Brendan has shown he can adjust any system by tweaking here and there hence having players with more versatility,

After last nights performance, I'm very excited about the rest of this season, and of course future seasons under Brendan Rodgers.

BRING IT ON !


YNWA

It appears that Brendan may have found a system that fits ideally the way he wants to play with the players he has,

At the moment playing Ste up front alongside our temporary striker is working , to a degree, when Sturridge comes back in tho he will have to alter it , not a bad problem to have on all honesty,
But what happens next season ?

obviously no one knows what new recruits will be sought by then,
Anyway at present the midfield seems ok, but I'd like to see a trio of Lucas, Hendo & Can , forget your Pogbas, Khedeiras , Cabaye's etc , it ain't going to happen , wages (FSG) will see to that,

That trio plus 1/2 new quality midfielders + promotion within should be enough to see us thru ,
Coutinho will emerge as our main player so I think Brendan will build around him, a injury free Sturridge combined with , Sterling, Lallana , Markovic, Origi, backed by Can & Hendo with Lucas, or another sat in behind and a solid back 3 and a NEW KEEPER,
With 'the system' there is no reason to doubt that it won't be successful, like most things it will have weaknesses and won't always be ideal but Brendan has shown he can adjust any system by tweaking here and there hence having players with more versatility,

After last nights performance, I'm very excited about the rest of this season, and of course future seasons under Brendan Rodgers.

BRING IT ON !


YNWA

I love this 3-4-2-1 formation we are utilising. Very few teams will be able to live with it. All that's missing is a potent goalscorer up top. When Danny comes in then we will see the full force of Brendan's tactical implementation on display.

new formation works and Can as RCB works for me i would sack Lovern off in the summer and have Ilori on the bench as he's fast and composed on the ball. sell Coates and johnson also as there not top defenders, well johnson was but has lost his pace and switches off to many times.
midfeild next season would be Lucas hendo, then lallana coutino