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      Raheem Sterling (Liverpool -> Man City)

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      reddebs
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #989: Mar 31, 2015 05:07:17 pm
      So if Raheem signs a contract in the summer for say £80k per week plus incentives how will people view the outcome.

      a)  The Club won?
      b)  Raheem lost?
      c)  The media are sh*t stirring arseholes?
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #990: Mar 31, 2015 05:41:28 pm

      Regardless of whether or not I think it could happen, there are more ways to spend the money than Player X or Player Y. That's all I was pointing out.

      So if Raheem signs a contract in the summer for say £80k per week plus incentives how will people view the outcome.

      a)  The Club won?
      b)  Raheem lost?
      c)  The media are sh*t stirring arseholes?

      Depends upon the outcome doesn't it?

      This is the point I keep coming back to. It's not about whether we should or should not pay Sterling £150K, it's about whether we should put that extra money towards the wages of a better player. We're significantly lower on goals this season than last and on course for the lowest tally under Rodgers and goals (and goal difference) are what win you titles and cups. Paying Sterling or not paying Sterling £150K in isolation doesn't change the outcome. That outcome is we continue to be unsuccessful.

      FL Red
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #991: Mar 31, 2015 05:47:13 pm
      So if Raheem signs a contract in the summer for say £80k per week plus incentives how will people view the outcome.

      a)  The Club won?
      b)  Raheem lost?
      c)  The media are sh*t stirring arseholes?

      I'd say a).

      But c) is always true no matter the outcome.

      By the way, I think the club "wins" just by signing Raheem....irrespective of what the actual wages are. We need to keep him on our team and whether I think he's "worth" the amount he ultimately receives, it's not my money and I'd rather see him plying his trade with us.
      Chico Banderas
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #992: Mar 31, 2015 06:01:00 pm
      AB and C...,

      A, They took the piss out of Coutinhos contract imo and fans are now using that as a measuring stick to judge Raheems apparent greed so, the club wins.. Not us, not the transfer kitty enabling us to buy a worldy but, they win...

      B, Raheem doesn't get the money he/his agent requires, he looses. (But, remains playing at a big ass club developing)

      C, they always sh*t stir regardless???
      FL Red
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #993: Mar 31, 2015 06:02:29 pm
      Don't know who the "sources" are but ESPN usually doesn't report stuff unless they have a pretty solid handle on it. This article seems to make about the most sense of any I've seen.


      Liverpool won't sell Raheem Sterling despite contract wrangle
      Liverpool will not consider a deal to sell Raheem Sterling this summer even if he refuses to sign a new contract, sources have told ESPN FC.

      Sterling, 20, is committed to stay at Anfield until 2017 and talks began in October to extend his deal until 2020. Indeed, Liverpool have offered the England winger around £100,000-a-week, a significant increase on his current salary of £35,000-a-week.

      However, the player -- through his agent, Aidy Ward -- is understood to have asked for closer to £150,000-a-week, a wage that would put him among the top earners at Anfield.


      With talks stalling, however, Sterling has decided to put further contract negotiations on hold until the end of the season, something manager Brendan Rodgers confirmed earlier this month.

      Rodgers has repeatedly stated that he believes Liverpool are the best club to continue Sterling's development, but the Reds feel under no pressure to sell the winger and are determined not to pay him more than they feel he is worth.

      Liverpool would be entitled to a fee from any club looking to sign him even if he allowed his contract to run out in 2017, as he would still be under 24 at that point. If that were to happen, any such fee would be decided by an independent tribunal, with Manchester City manager Manuel Pellegrini recently claiming that his market value was £100 million.
      David Wright
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #994: Mar 31, 2015 06:42:10 pm
      So if Raheem signs a contract in the summer for say £80k per week plus incentives how will people view the outcome.

      a)  The Club won?
      b)  Raheem lost?
      c)  The media are sh*t stirring arseholes?

      I think this would be a victory for common sense rather than, any particular party winning.
      reddebs
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #995: Mar 31, 2015 06:58:43 pm
      Regardless of whether or not I think it could happen, there are more ways to spend the money than Player X or Player Y. That's all I was pointing out.

      Depends upon the outcome doesn't it?

      This is the point I keep coming back to. It's not about whether we should or should not pay Sterling £150K, it's about whether we should put that extra money towards the wages of a better player. We're significantly lower on goals this season than last and on course for the lowest tally under Rodgers and goals (and goal difference) are what win you titles and cups. Paying Sterling or not paying Sterling £150K in isolation doesn't change the outcome. That outcome is we continue to be unsuccessful.



      Still don't get your point mate, sorry.  You know they won't put the extra money towards a better player because for the extra he's asking we wouldn't get a better player.  Or do you think we would get a better player for £50k a week?  That's Borini/Allen level of wages.
      reddebs
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #996: Mar 31, 2015 07:03:32 pm
      I'd say a).

      But c) is always true no matter the outcome.

      By the way, I think the club "wins" just by signing Raheem....irrespective of what the actual wages are. We need to keep him on our team and whether I think he's "worth" the amount he ultimately receives, it's not my money and I'd rather see him plying his trade with us.

      I agree totally FL.

      srslfc
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #997: Mar 31, 2015 09:33:08 pm
      Regardless of whether or not I think it could happen, there are more ways to spend the money than Player X or Player Y. That's all I was pointing out.

      True.

      How about letting all Juniors in for free? How about letting all Disabled fans in for free? How about reducing the ticket price by 3%

      I don't ever see FSG spending money saved on wages on things like these though, so if the fans aren't going to see any benefit from money saved on wages I'd much rather we spent that money on keeping our best players here, and Raheem is one of our very best players despite many trying to say otherwise over the last few months.

      « Last Edit: Mar 31, 2015 10:16:03 pm by srslfc »
      Scottbot
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #998: Mar 31, 2015 10:02:12 pm
      Your question is irrelevant because it assumes the situation has only two choices. Either use the money to attract top talent to the club or reward Sterling's greed. What do you think the club could do with £2.6 million a year? By my calculations (and feel free to correct me) but that's more than the club makes on a single match day. How about letting all Juniors in for free? How about letting all Disabled fans in for free? How about reducing the ticket price by 3%? All these choices are better than rewarding a player with one good season under his belt.

      I think that maybe you should be in politics fella given that swerve. How is the question irrelevant? If he ends up being sold he will need to be replaced, stands to reason doesn't it? Now maybe we have a ready made replacement in Ibe (maybe not). I suspect we would still need to buy someone. I suggested I would rather we pay the player than spend that money on said new player because I have more faith in option one (in principle)
      HScRed1
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #999: Mar 31, 2015 10:18:06 pm
      Interesting how this debate has developed into pretty much those who reckon the club is bigger than one player and should not break their wage structure for a young albeit talented player.
      And those who feel the club will collapse into the abyss if a 20 year old millionaire is not given the keys to Liverpool.

      It's fairly obvious LFC will not accept the alleged £150k demanded by Aidy Ward but I also believe Raheem will be here next season, like when a suarez requested a move the club will play hard ball, which unfortunately for him will make him look like a greedy little so and so.

      This whole saga is a sign of the times when the common person earning less in a year what Raheem earns in a week is clamouring for him to be paid even more!

      Funnily enough when people like teachers, social workers etc protest about wanting better wages peeps are up in arms.

      Strange times.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1000: Mar 31, 2015 10:36:20 pm
      Interesting how this debate has developed into pretty much those who reckon the club is bigger than one player and should not break their wage structure for a young albeit talented player.
      And those who feel the club will collapse into the abyss if a 20 year old millionaire is not given the keys to Liverpool.

      It's fairly obvious LFC will not accept the alleged £150k demanded by Aidy Ward but I also believe Raheem will be here next season, like when a suarez requested a move the club will play hard ball, which unfortunately for him will make him look like a greedy little so and so.

      This whole saga is a sign of the times when the common person earning less in a year what Raheem earns in a week is clamouring for him to be paid even more!

      Funnily enough when people like teachers, social workers etc protest about wanting better wages peeps are up in arms.

      Strange times.


      The whole thing is everybody is pissing and moaning (both directions) when we have no control over anything, and yet people get so worked up they have to take sides and start throwing sh*t at each other.

      Truth be told if the club does not pay him then 1/2 the forum is going to be pissed....If we do pay him what he wants then the other have is going have a fit.

      Strange times indeed.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1001: Mar 31, 2015 10:37:50 pm
      And those who feel the club will collapse into the abyss if a 20 year old millionaire is not given the keys to Liverpool.

      I'm not sure anyone has said anything close to this.

      This whole saga is a sign of the times when the common person earning less in a year what Raheem earns in a week is clamouring for him to be paid even more!

      Footballers wages are ridiculous and have been for going on decades now so this point, in relation to Sterling alone, is kind of irrelevant in the debate. I agree that money in the game is part of the problem in a wider picture but to bring it into a debate on one player and his contract is not what this debate is really about.

      Scottbot
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1002: Mar 31, 2015 11:22:40 pm
      If one or more other clubs are willing to pay it then it could be argued he is worth it.


      This.

      I don't think it would be wise to give the lad some of the figures that have been bandied about recently ie. the 180k fee that was speculated in the mirror and a few others suggesting 150k. I would have to soften my stance completely and jump in with the 'he's holding the club to ransom' brigade.

      But for those of you saying he isn't worth 100k a week in the current market I think you need your heads reading.

      I think that just about everything that can be said has been said in this thread to be honest so I guess it's just a case of wait and see what happens in the summer.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1003: Apr 01, 2015 12:24:08 am
      Still don't get your point mate, sorry.  You know they won't put the extra money towards a better player because for the extra he's asking we wouldn't get a better player.  Or do you think we would get a better player for £50k a week?  That's Borini/Allen level of wages.

      I'll try clarify. My stance on Sterling being paid £150,000 a week is that he hasn't achieved enough to warrant those wages. But there's a wider issue I was alluding to before and that is that whether you pay that to him or not is largely irrelevant while we're unable to attract top end talent to the club because until we do we will remain unsuccessful. So what I would like to see happen is the £50,000 we're not paying him, used to pay a top striker an extra ten, twenty or thirty grand a week to choose us over a London club. Whether I think it will happen or not should take a back seat to whether I feel it should happen.

      Season on Premier League season has shown us that the teams that score the most goals are the teams that challenge for the title. This season we simply have not scored enough goals to get near that challenge with Sterling being our top goal scorer on six league goals so far this season. As a club we have only scored 44 goals this season. Chelsea has scored 61, City have scored 62 and both are challenging for the title. So who is more important to the club? Sterling who scores ten goals a season or a new Striker who has twenty five goals a season in him and by extension, who is deserving of being the higher paid player? Who would be the more important to our club? That is the issue that faces us. We need a top striker and top strikers demand top wages and we simply don't have enough money to pay both Sterling and a Top striker top wages. The choice is clear to me.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1004: Apr 01, 2015 12:34:53 am
      But there's a wider issue I was alluding to before and that is that whether you pay that to him or not is largely irrelevant while we're unable to attract top end talent to the club because until we do we will remain unsuccessful.

      We don't attract the top end talent because we don't pay, as you rightly point out, the top wages.

      What we are tryimng to do is buy the top end talent before they become that by investing in young players with the potential to be those tope end players 2, 3 or even 5 years down the line.

      What many of us worry about though is if and when those players start to look like they are becoming top level talent, and you can argue if Raheem is there, close to it or even if he won't be there at all, will we then not want to pay those players the top end wages that we saved in the first place by buying them before they were the top talent?

      It's all well and good buying young players and hope they progess to being among the best if you don't want to pay them as the best around when they start to fulfill that potential.

      we simply don't have enough money to pay both Sterling and a Top striker top wages. The choice is clear to me.

      Is this true though?

      I highlighted a few players the other day who are on big wages who are likely to be leaving along with a few players who don't feature who when you combine their wages could pay for both Raheem's pay rise and a new striker.

      Gerrard, Johnson, Balotelli, Aspas, Alberto, Borini.

      Six players one of which is already leaving, one is almost ceratin to be leaving, two are on loan and not needed and the other two, Borini and Balotelli, have question marks about whether or not they will be here next season.

      I would hazard a guess that you at over £300K a week in wages right there.

      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1005: Apr 01, 2015 01:01:30 am
      I'll try clarify. My stance on Sterling being paid £150,000 a week is that he hasn't achieved enough to warrant those wages. But there's a wider issue I was alluding to before and that is that whether you pay that to him or not is largely irrelevant while we're unable to attract top end talent to the club because until we do we will remain unsuccessful. So what I would like to see happen is the £50,000 we're not paying him, used to pay a top striker an extra ten, twenty or thirty grand a week to choose us over a London club. Whether I think it will happen or not should take a back seat to whether I feel it should happen.

      Season on Premier League season has shown us that the teams that score the most goals are the teams that challenge for the title. This season we simply have not scored enough goals to get near that challenge with Sterling being our top goal scorer on six league goals so far this season. As a club we have only scored 44 goals this season. Chelsea has scored 61, City have scored 62 and both are challenging for the title. So who is more important to the club? Sterling who scores ten goals a season or a new Striker who has twenty five goals a season in him and by extension, who is deserving of being the higher paid player? Who would be the more important to our club? That is the issue that faces us. We need a top striker and top strikers demand top wages and we simply don't have enough money to pay both Sterling and a Top striker top wages. The choice is clear to me.

      I get your point completely but disagree, we do indeed have enough money to pay Raheem £100k a week and a top striker £200k a week, we simply don't choose to.

      We choose to spread the risk as the reward ratio is much better when divided among more assets of a similar profile.

      Which I'm sure you already know and is exactly why you're frustrated, the same as most of us are frustrated with this approach from FSG. All I can say is enjoy Can while he develops, enjoy Coutinho while he develops because once their financial ceiling is reached they'll be off to the various clubs who are actually here to win.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1006: Apr 01, 2015 05:34:58 am
      We choose to spread the risk as the reward ratio is much better when divided among more assets of a similar profile.

      We have Bingo

      Quote of the year for me Luke
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1007: Apr 01, 2015 10:03:19 am
      This post is going to sound harsh but am I the only person who thinks he is over rated? I wouldn't be bothered if he stays or goes to be honest.

      His pace is his main asset but it won't last forever. His final pass is usually poor and his finishing is quite shocking, he isn't clinical enough. He is nothing more than a decent player/prospect. He is nothing special. Ability wise he will never go down as one of the best footballers to play the game, he is not good enough technically.

      If he went to City or Chelsea I'm pretty sure he would rot on their bench. He is certainly no better than Hazard or Silva. And Nasri & Willian are just as good if not better too.

      He is a good player for us because of the way we play, he fits in with our style. If he moves I'm certain we will see just how basic of a footballer he actually is.

      We are at our best when we play with pace and press the other team. We don't have the best footballers in the world, but sometimes our energy and enthusiasm wins us games and that's why Sterling is good for us because he has bags of pace and is an enthusiastic player most of the time. The likes of City are more technical, boring really, and Sterling wouldn't fit in there at all IMO. He is not a 'City player'. Sterling is not the sort of player who can 'unlock a tight defence' is he? Look at how Navas has struggled there and they play in a similar way - beat a man and get to the byline.

      I hope he stays because he is good for Liverpool and Liverpool is good for him. If its true and he is asking for 150k a week though he needs to have a look at himself. God only knows what he will ask for in 3 years time, at the age of 23, when is next contract is about to expire.





       

       

      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1008: Apr 01, 2015 10:15:51 am
      This post is going to sound harsh but am I the only person who thinks he is over rated? I wouldn't be bothered if he stays or goes to be honest.

      His pace is his main asset but it won't last forever. His final pass is usually poor and his finishing is quite shocking, he isn't clinical enough. He is nothing more than a decent player/prospect. He is nothing special. Ability wise he will never go down as one of the best footballers to play the game, he is not good enough technically.

      If he went to City or Chelsea I'm pretty sure he would rot on their bench. He is certainly no better than Hazard or Silva. And Nasri & Willian are just as good if not better too.

      He is a good player for us because of the way we play, he fits in with our style. If he moves I'm certain we will see just how basic of a footballer he actually is.

      We are at our best when we play with pace and press the other team. We don't have the best footballers in the world, but sometimes our energy and enthusiasm wins us games and that's why Sterling is good for us because he has bags of pace and is an enthusiastic player most of the time. The likes of City are more technical, boring really, and Sterling wouldn't fit in there at all IMO. He is not a 'City player'. Sterling is not the sort of player who can 'unlock a tight defence' is he? Look at how Navas has struggled there and they play in a similar way - beat a man and get to the byline.

      I hope he stays because he is good for Liverpool and Liverpool is good for him. If its true and he is asking for 150k a week though he needs to have a look at himself. God only knows what he will ask for in 3 years time, at the age of 23, when is next contract is about to expire.





       

       



      I disagree, I don't think he's overrated, he has reached a high level at an early age, and will only get better with experience.
      I also Think if he was playing with better players at Chelsea or City the would bring the best out if him, and he would excel.

      He's only 20 years old ,nowhere near his peak. Not only should we be keeping players like Sterling, but we should be looking to add quality player like him .
      Beerbelly
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1009: Apr 01, 2015 10:40:12 am
      Quote
      This post is going to sound harsh but am I the only person who thinks he is over rated? 

      I think he's overrated a tad too.

      I'd still like him at the club - but a 150,000 pound-a-week player he is most certainly not.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1010: Apr 01, 2015 10:47:04 am
      I disagree, I don't think he's overrated, he has reached a high level at an early age, and will only get better with experience.
      I also Think if he was playing with better players at Chelsea or City the would bring the best out if him, and he would excel.

      He's only 20 years old ,nowhere near his peak. Not only should we be keeping players like Sterling, but we should be looking to add quality player like him .

      He has done well for us certainly and I hope he stays with us.

      I think Brendan has brought the best out of him though and I don't think Raheem would flourish at another club like he has done here. Your argument of 'he will have better players around him' may not be the case for Raheem which is what I suspect - some players are more suited to being a big fish in a small pond.

      Do you think that technically Raheem is a good footballer? Because I think he is rather basic.

      If he goes I won't be too disheartened and I think we will see how basic he is wearing a City shirt. He will only go from strength to strength playing for a manager like Brendan who sets his team out to accommodate the likes of Sterling.

      He works hard and he has lots of pace, Brendans ideal player.  He won't have the same effect playing for City who are much slower and more technical.

       
      Beerbelly
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      Re: The Raheem Sterling Contract Situation
      Reply #1011: Apr 01, 2015 10:54:36 am
      He has done well for us certainly and I hope he stays with us.

      I think Brendan has brought the best out of him though and I don't think Raheem would flourish at another club like he has done here. Your argument of 'he will have better players around him' may not be the case for Raheem which is what I suspect - some players are more suited to being a big fish in a small pond.

      Do you think that technically Raheem is a good footballer? Because I think he is rather basic.

      If he goes I won't be too disheartened and I think we will see how basic he is wearing a City shirt. He will only go from strength to strength playing for a manager like Brendan who sets his team out to accommodate the likes of Sterling.

      He works hard and he has lots of pace, Brendans ideal player.  He won't have the same effect playing for City who are much slower and more technical.

      In fairness, he looked a much better player IMHO with Suarez in the side last season.

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