Second is nowhere.

Our turn around under the manager this season has been nothing short of astonishing. We are the form team in the league and have gone from having one of the worst defences to one of the best. This is obviously puzzling for those who were calling for Steve Clarke to come back as a defensive coach but happily the voices from that quarter of fans have been quieted by results.

It’s easy to understand how the game has passed them by, but other voices remain – the ones who sneer about accountants and the importance of keeping a good balance sheet. Yet for anyone working in the game as a professional the importance of money in obtaining results is all too clear.

That’s why qualification for this year’s Champion’s League is so crucial to clubs and domestic cup competitions aren’t. This year, finishing in the top four positions in the league means between 50 and 60 million pounds from the BT TV deal and the pick of the best and most ambitious young players across the continent. And qualifying for this season’s tournament means it is far more likely we will qualify for next seasons too. Soon a new gap will open up between the “top four” and the rest.

But the season has become even more important than just qualifying for the top four.


For the first time in a long time, our match with Manchester United could have repercussions for a generation to come.
 

Put simply, United HAVE to qualify for the Champions league either this year or next year or they will quickly fall behind. Currently the combined spending on the wages of Di Maria, Falcao, Mata and Shaw alone amount to over 50 million pounds a year. There is simply no way they can sustain that level of spending whilst seeing their rivals pull in the same amount every year with increased TV money. Even their kit deal with Adidas rests on the CL to the tune of a 22.5 million pound penalty.

After Van Gaal’s spending they still need to rebuild their entire defence, most of their midfield and attack but will he be trusted with the money to do this? And if not who will the Glazers employ next to rebuild? Giggs? Even a new Ferguson might take five years to rebuild the side and there is no indication that they have the gumption to identify him let alone bring him to the club.

City appear to have hit the skids since Pellegrini’s fate hangs in the balance. It is no longer clear that we can rely on them to finish in the top four (though it is likely they will). We have to derail United’s season by giving them a tonking so hard that their confidence is shaken and they drop further points in the rest of their games.


First is first and second is nowhere, but this season we might be able to ensure that, even if we don’t win the league, we can prevent our rivals from winning the league again for a decade, maybe more.

And isn’t that a cheery thought with which to approach the rest of our games?

Great topic agree with all below, we need to win this game on sunday more than any game this season as its 3 points taken off UTD who are realisticly our main rivals for a top 4 spot. Also WHEN we win on sunday it just gives us the confidence we are slowley regaining similar to last season when we felt invincable.
I honestly thin whoever wins sunday gets a top 4 spot 100%, i even think if we beat UTD we can get a result away to Arsenal and probably a goaless draw away to chelsea with all our other games totally winnable.

Get CL and all contracts will be sorted and along with that one or two may come along

The one thing that united had that they knew they could absolutely rely on was stability in management.

That's no longer the case, and thanks to Ferguson being a complete control freak, a new manager has more to contend with at man u than possibly any other club in the prem.
The big question is whether they stick or twist with LVG.

I'm a little shocked by City's implosion, but it has perhaps been building.

This could indeed be our chance for a perch swap, but we need to push on strongly, starting on Sunday. Win that game and they are fu**ed imo for at least one more season.

Second is every where, have you not read RedCafe, that's where United are going to finish when they beat us and City, points are already in the bag yer know. 

United will be pumping in obscene amounts of money until they reach Leeds 2.0. Sad for those who like derby days, but their demise looks inevitable. They spend 150mil last summer and ARE worse off than before. Glazers were hoping for a quick fix throwing big money at the problem. They´re going H+G route Im teling you but they are so cocky and feel so strong financialy it will hit them harder than you can say bankrupt. Top spenders (transfers/wages) of PL finishing 6th or 7th three or four years in a row. Its unstable. They are going down sooner rather than later.

I had a look on Redcafe and there is seriously a thread on there debating on the "pros and cons" of qualifying for the Champion's League.

Their reasoning is that the only way we came second last year was because we didn't have to worry about European games.

They are completely away with the fairies.

United have no long term plan, they have a fraud of a manager in charge, and they´re forced to massively overpay their academy graduates at this stage. The like of Blackett, non of use for the first team football at the moment and probably never will, has just signed a 40k a week contract. Our Wisdom on the other hand, is being paid 10k by WBA while on loan. You can see a huge difference in "philosophy"

United have no long term plan, they have a fraud of a manager in charge, and they´re forced to massively overpay their academy graduates at this stage. The like of Blackett, non of use for the first team football at the moment and probably never will, has just signed a 40k a week contract. Our Wisdom on the other hand, is being paid 10k by his club while on loan. You can see a huge difference in "philosophy"

Exactly mate. Shame more of our fans can't see the advantages of these things but they will in time. Without a new Ferguson United are toast - we just have to sit back and watch how things play out.

Regarding the upcoming match it will be interesting to see if Van Gaal sets out for a draw. If he does and we hammer them the repercussions could be interesting....

For a second I thought Ricky Bobby had joined the forum.

"If you're not first you're last"

This year, finishing in the top four positions in the league means between 50 and 60 million pounds from the BT TV deal and the pick of the best and most ambitious young players across the continent.

Sorry to highlight this part of your OP, but why ambitious young players? We already have the makings of a future very good team at the minute, surely it's time to buy for the present and push on to the next level.

Think we have present now OR, or will have next season. If you think of a James Milner, or a Reuss, Im afraid you will be disappointed.
We are maturing all along. No need of proven "stars" for the next season imo.

Sorry to highlight this part of your OP, but why ambitious young players? We already have the makings of a future very good team at the minute, surely it's time to buy for the present and push on to the next level.

No worries.

It depends what you mean by "the next level". As John Henry said, winning the league is not enough - once we have won our aim is to win it again and again.

The players, and even the manager, are only part of the process which will achieve that aim. Since FSG arrived the call has been to buy big name, famous players to make the "one last push" which has kept the league out of our grasp all these years. That strategy has clearly failed and it is the one that United are pursuing now.

As much as anything our match will be a clash of philosophies.

Exactly mate. Shame more of our fans can't see the advantages of these things but they will in time. Without a new Ferguson United are toast - we just have to sit back and watch how things play out.

Regarding the upcoming match it will be interesting to see if Van Gaal sets out for a draw. If he does and we hammer them the repercussions could be interesting....

Think it will be a tacticall match with Liverpool more confident at home and clinical in front of goal, 3:1. Hope they keep Van Genius for the next season before they sack him in the middle of it.

I think Van Gooch will set them up to have a go at us and we will destroy them if they do.

Death by football is what I'm hoping for!

Think it will be a tacticall match with Liverpool more confident at home and clinical in front of goal, 3:1. Hope they keep Van Genius for the next season before they sack him in the middle of it.

I'm just praying we see Giggs in charge - hopefully long enough that they give him a chance over a transfer window.

Second will never be good enough for the team or the fans. After all we are talking about Liverpool.

I was pretty confident spurs will show good performance  but they were awfull. Later i was thinking scum will come to Anfield confident thinking they can win because  they beat very poor spurs. They will be shocked on sunday and then they will start to panic in the remaining games while we loose at emirates and win most of our remaining ones. At least i hope so.

I was pretty confident spurs will show good performance  but they were awfull.

Confidence in Spurs, mate. Never have it.

Sunday will probably be the most important LFC-MUFC since 2009.  Like you said it's very important to get CL.

Confidence in Spurs, mate. Never have it.

Just an exception because scum are too.

Our turn around under the manager this season has been nothing short of astonishing. We are the form team in the league and have gone from having one of the worst defences to one of the best. This is obviously puzzling for those who were calling for Steve Clarke to come back as a defensive coach but happily the voices from that quarter of fans have been quieted by results.

It’s easy to understand how the game has passed them by, but other voices remain – the ones who sneer about accountants and the importance of keeping a good balance sheet. Yet for anyone working in the game as a professional the importance of money in obtaining results is all too clear.

That’s why qualification for this year’s Champion’s League is so crucial to clubs and domestic cup competitions aren’t. This year, finishing in the top four positions in the league means between 50 and 60 million pounds from the BT TV deal and the pick of the best and most ambitious young players across the continent. And qualifying for this season’s tournament means it is far more likely we will qualify for next seasons too. Soon a new gap will open up between the “top four” and the rest.

But the season has become even more important than just qualifying for the top four.


For the first time in a long time, our match with Manchester United could have repercussions for a generation to come.
 

Put simply, United HAVE to qualify for the Champions league either this year or next year or they will quickly fall behind. Currently the combined spending on the wages of Di Maria, Falcao, Mata and Shaw alone amount to over 50 million pounds a year. There is simply no way they can sustain that level of spending whilst seeing their rivals pull in the same amount every year with increased TV money. Even their kit deal with Adidas rests on the CL to the tune of a 22.5 million pound penalty.

After Van Gaal’s spending they still need to rebuild their entire defence, most of their midfield and attack but will he be trusted with the money to do this? And if not who will the Glazers employ next to rebuild? Giggs? Even a new Ferguson might take five years to rebuild the side and there is no indication that they have the gumption to identify him let alone bring him to the club.

City appear to have hit the skids since Pellegrini’s fate hangs in the balance. It is no longer clear that we can rely on them to finish in the top four (though it is likely they will). We have to derail United’s season by giving them a tonking so hard that their confidence is shaken and they drop further points in the rest of their games.


First is first and second is nowhere, but this season we might be able to ensure that, even if we don’t win the league, we can prevent our rivals from winning the league again for a decade, maybe more.

And isn’t that a cheery thought with which to approach the rest of our games?

Didn't really understand the calls for Steve Clarke to be our defensive coach - he plays a completely different system to Rodgers. His defences are usually a lot deeper than ours, so his ideas are on a completely different wavelength to Rodgers.

I have never called for Steve Clarke to be reinstated as our defensive coach/trainer, but I do know that prior to December I doubt there was 1 poster on this forum was happy with our defence. It is just a pity that it took so long to sort out or we could of been debating if we will finish first and not hoping for a top four finish.

It is a pity that we started so poorly because had we stayed in touching distance with the leaders, we would be leading ourselves by now. 

Even if we don't finish in the top 4 this season I won't be that worried. We are showing now that our current squad is capable of putting title winning form together - but we can't keep kicking our season off after Christmas. We obviously need to be consistent from the first game.

Finishing in the top 4 is obviously important to all clubs involved, but it would be more of a disaster for the other clubs than us. The pressure is on them. As the OP states, it would be a nightmare for United to miss out two seasons running with their wage bill.

We have a top manager and a hungry young talented squad who are going places. So if we don't finish in the top 4 I hope our fans aren't too disheartened and start calling for Brendans head again even though the season, on paper, would have been a poor one. Because I believe with or without CL football we will still challenge for the title next season.

If we do finish in the top 4 though, then I hope FSG have the balls to make 2 or 3 'marquee' signings. We need a powerhouse midfielder as replacement for Gerrard, a world class striker which aren't easy to find and a top goalie even though Migs has been in good form recently. Then we're done and we will win the league with ease. That simple. We aren't very far away at all though.

It's exciting times to be a red. We are on the up.

It is a pity that we started so poorly because had we stayed in touching distance with the leaders, we would be leading ourselves by now. 

Even if we don't finish in the top 4 this season I won't be that worried. We are showing now that our current squad is capable of putting title winning form together - but we can't keep kicking our season off after Christmas. We obviously need to be consistent from the first game.

Finishing in the top 4 is obviously important to all clubs involved, but it would be more of a disaster for the other clubs than us. The pressure is on them. As the OP states, it would be a nightmare for United to miss out two seasons running with their wage bill.

We have a top manager and a hungry young talented squad who are going places. So if we don't finish in the top 4 I hope our fans aren't too disheartened and start calling for Brendans head again even though the season, on paper, would have been a poor one. Because I believe with or without CL football we will still challenge for the title next season.

If we do finish in the top 4 though, then I hope FSG have the balls to make 2 or 3 'marquee' signings. We need a powerhouse midfielder as replacement for Gerrard, a world class striker which aren't easy to find and a top goalie even though Migs has been in good form recently. Then we're done and we will win the league with ease. That simple. We aren't very far away at all though.

It's exciting times to be a red. We are on the up.

Yeah, such a pity but understandable. If we dont get too many injuries and sell one of our best players next season and even ad one ore two marquee signings i put us high up the favourites list. However not making top 4 would be a very big step back. Quality players wanting to join blah blah...

like the fellow reds said below its just a pitty we was garbage first half of the season as we would be title contenders on this form or atleast 2nd by now if we started how we are finishing. BR has been quoted recently saying we always finish the 2nd half strong. So are we putting to much into pre-season travelling to far and its affecting the players for the start of the season. do they need a longer break before the start as we even play a competitive match the week before the season maybe chin that off rest and recharge and go strong start of the season. just a thought anyone agree?

Think it's a few things mate - obviously the loss of Suarez and Sturridge and integrating so many new players into the squad played their part. Hopefully we wont have to contend with that next season.

Our team is also set up via periodisation so that we reach peak fitness in January just in time for the crucial part of the run-in.

If you look at Chelsea and City at the moment they have completely fallen away from their early form. The difference in Fabregas and Oscar is remarkable.

Second IS nowhere.

But I don't expect us to be top every year.
I do however expect the club to perform at a level commensuate with its history and its fan base.
Saying "we don't have the money" just doesn't wash with me.

And everything under Fenway has suggested "lets just look like we're trying for 4th".

FFP is here now, I wonder what the next excuse will be?

Some terrific kids/youngsters have come thro. And some stars of previous eras keep it together. I dread to think what would be the situation if we had been sell to buy for a longer period than we have been.

We took the relative success of last yr and the hedge funders threw it down the toilet.

with the amount of youth we have now at our diposal and some experiance in the side the time is now to push on and start to become a regular CL team. With a few experianced signings in the summer i realisticly think we can challenge for the title next season or the season after. Firstly we need to get into a top 4 this summer and use that extra money wisely to bring in CL experiance this time round and not youth. if we can do that well i think we will be a strong team once again as we've shown we have the grit and team spirit. Breandan's red and white army on the march attack,attack, attack, attack attack

Second IS nowhere.

But I don't expect us to be top every year.
I do however expect the club to perform at a level commensuate with its history and its fan base.
Saying "we don't have the money" just doesn't wash with me.

And everything under Fenway has suggested "lets just look like we're trying for 4th".

FFP is here now, I wonder what the next excuse will be?

Some terrific kids/youngsters have come thro. And some stars of previous eras keep it together. I dread to think what would be the situation if we had been sell to buy for a longer period than we have been.

We took the relative success of last yr and the hedge funders threw it down the toilet.

Maybe we should get the same guys who were in charge last year?

This is obviously puzzling for those who were calling for Steve Clarke to come back as a defensive coach but happily the voices from that quarter of fans have been quieted by results.

It’s easy to understand how the game has passed them by, but other voices remain – the ones who sneer about accountants and the importance of keeping a good balance sheet. Yet for anyone working in the game as a professional the importance of money in obtaining results is all too clear.

Didn't really understand the calls for Steve Clarke to be our defensive coach - he plays a completely different system to Rodgers. His defences are usually a lot deeper than ours, so his ideas are on a completely different wavelength to Rodgers.

Hello lads, i was just hoping to have a quick browse through the forum but after reading your comments i couldn't help but type a short post. Unfortunately i have been quiet lately but that's due to the fact that i work 7 days a week and have two young sons, i wish i had the time that you have on your hands Hollywood, but i don't.

I called upon Rodgers to make changes to the defence as he wasn't coping with the standard four man defence. To be fair to Brendan he has made a change, but i hardly call throwing an extra centre back in to be a ground breaking manoeuvre. He has solved a problem, which is what a fair few supporters voiced their opinions on. Credit must be given where it is due, as it is at the moment our dearth of creative attackers balances out the loss of an extra midfielder and i think he has found the right combination.

The call for Clarke was out of a genuine fear of us being ripped apart when we had our four man defence, which we were. What the F**k Son of a Gun is on about, saying Clarke plays a different system? well spotted. You do understand the difference between a defence coach and a manager i take it? Clarke would have been implemented as a defensive coach, not the F***ing manager and would have adapted his coaching to interlace with Brendan's requirements. The five man defence seems to be working at the moment and hopefully that will continue. A big part of that improvement has been down to Can, i think he has been outstanding and has given us that link between defence and midfield.

I pray we can continue in this vein of form and if truth be told i honestly think we will beat United quite easily on Sunday. My only gripe with Rodgers is that he was too slow to react to the original problem with the defence, if he had reacted sooner we would be in with a shout for the title right now.

At the start of the Season i always gauge our first team and this Season was no different to last. We have the skill and creativity to beat anyone in the Premier League, as current form is proving. That's why it is so disappointing for some supporters when reacting to the lethargic response by Brendan to the defensive issues early Season.

By the time we responded, Chelsea were out of sight. Another annoying point is that barring Chelsea, our rivals have been playing sh*te. It just makes it all the more frustrating for some.

I pray we can continue in this vein of form and if truth be told i honestly think we will beat United quite easily on Sunday. My only gripe with Rodgers is that he was too slow to react to the original problem with the defence, if he had reacted sooner we would be in with a shout for the title right now.

At the start of the Season i always gauge our first team and this Season was no different to last. We have the skill and creativity to beat anyone in the Premier League, as current form is proving. That's why it is so disappointing for some supporters when reacting to the lethargic response by Brendan to the defensive issues early Season.

By the time we responded, Chelsea were out of sight. Another annoying point is that barring Chelsea, our rivals have been playing sh*te. It just makes it all the more frustrating for some.

I just wanted to pick this bit out of your post and build upon it. The problems with the first half of the season seem to be largely misunderstood. Our defensive frailty should not be looked at in isolation and was as big a liability as it was only because we where failing to score enough goals as well, something we are still failing to do now. Rodgers insisted on playing Balotelli up on his own when it was plain to see that the lad was uncomfortable there and it simply wasn't working. As you rightly point out, it took Rodgers far too long to recognise that fact and several of us on this forum where calling for Sterling to play as a false nine a good two months prior to Rodgers changing the formation to accommodate him there. Regardless of our league position and form, I feel the change in system has simply papered over cracks that still remain at the club, having scored just over half the amount of goals we had at the same stage last season.

Nonetheless, for all our tightening of defence and charge back up the table, our lack of goals remains a problem, going from an average of 2.7 goals per game to 1.4 this season and a problem that was caused last Summer by our failure to once again bring in our top targets in the strikers department. Under Brendan we have a track record of finishing strongly. I believe this is because of our repeated failures in the market since FSG took over, bringing in players unproven at the top levels with the players brought in finding it difficult to adapt and it taking time for Brendan Rodgers to find a system that gets the best out of what he has to work with. Whilst that's a testament to his managerial skills, we simply have to do better in the market this coming Summer, bringing in established, experienced talent that fits with our system. We cannot afford another four months of mediocrity while we wait for Brendan to figure out another new system to accommodate the players we did bring in. We need to get it right this year.

Looking more and more like the F***ing scum will be able to pay big wages again next season - mugs that they are.   

Looking more and more like the f**king scum will be able to pay big wages again next season - mugs that they are.   

Yeah didn't get too involved in all the piss taking for this very reason mate. LvG always starts slow but as per usual he's got them grinding out results and it's sickening.

Only mugs feels like us, the fans, at the moment.

Yeah didn't get too involved in all the piss taking for this very reason mate. LvG always starts slow but as per usual he's got them grinding out results and it's sickening.

Only mugs feels like us, the fans, at the moment.

They will add quality next season & challenge too where we will add potential & try to challenge.

Perhaps a good title for this topic would be,  Anything other than top is nowhere !

Looking more and more like the F***ing scum will be able to pay big wages again next season - mugs that they are.   

Yep.

As I posted in the Premier League thread. You buy enough good players and you will eventually win plenty of games.