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      Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.

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      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #644: Mar 23, 2015 11:27:37 am
      Once you get past the snot, mouthfoam, hissy fits and "Brendan got it wrong" merchants, you always learn more from defeat if your prepared to look. Here are a few observations from yesterday.

      Alberto Moreno is someway short of being good enough for a top team as things stand. Defensively he is a mile off, while because of a confidence deficiency he offers nothing currently going forward either. Full-backs who can't defend and don't attack are not the stuff which good teams are made of. He has much potential but unfortunately for him among the things which he could potentially become is a waste of 12 million quid. He was as bad as the darkest Dossena moments yesterday, and his Spurs goal is beginning to look like Dossena's "lob v Man U" moment.

      Mamadou Sakho could potentially become a very impressive player. He has absolutely everything you need to be a proper defender and was alone amongst our players yesterday in that he was absolutely outstanding.

      Although we were soundly beaten yesterday, we didn't actually concede many chances. At all. From set pieces we were once again sound, and great strides have been made in this direction.

      Raheem Sterling is OK at full back, but we miss his pace and verve a lot from up top when he plays at the back. As a future barometer for any potantial fullbacks we may sign, a good starting point might be to make sure they are better in their position than a converted forward. If they aren't, we probably shouldn't go there.

      Jordan Henderson isn't really a "leader" in the truest sense of the word. Our first half deficiencies were fairly obvious yesterday, but far from addressing the problem or setting an example, Henderson retreated into his shell and was awful. His lack of nouse contributed greatly to Gerrard's silliness in my opinion.

      Daniel Sturridge will struggle to make an impact against top teams without support which plays close to him.

      Adam Lallana needs to burn brighter for longer in games if he is to realise his potential. He flickers and flits too much, needs to toughen up. A good starting point might be to shave off the George Michael tribute band hairstyle and designer stubble, then take it from there.

      Man Utd are proving that if you have lots of good players, sooner or later you'll stop being sh!te. 
      Lio Varadkar
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #645: Mar 23, 2015 11:36:28 am
      Its been coming since the Blackburn game. Predictable, risky set-up, stalled contract negotiations all over the papers, Brendans handling of Balotelli, and a couple injuries.

      Allen was scared to take control of midfield, he usually cracks in big games, he is weak mentally. Cant wait for Lucas to get back and try rescue our season. Im worried tho, players seemengly have lost a bit of passion, and also belief in the system Brendan is ordering.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #646: Mar 23, 2015 11:49:11 am
      I can see the thinking bringing Stevie on at half time as we just weren't getting a foothold in the middle of the park.. I'm actually of the thought that he was a tad unlucky with the red.. I think 30 seconds in with two lots of tough 50/50s in the middle of the park in 30 seconds where both lots had players on both sides being aggressive and you could have the view that Herrera certainly wanted to put an early one in on Steven to rile him that both could have gotten a yellow.. If you watch it the ref, with a good view doesn't give it, his Lino does and I don't think from his view that he can categorically say how much intent there was in Steven to 'stamp' on him.. For me there wasn't that much intent to actually 'stamp' it was more reaction to the tackle and it was more unfortunate that malicious.. Yes Steven has come out and said he let everyone down and he probably feels that but I do think it was a harsh red myself in the whole aspect of what surrounded those 30 seconds. If we are taking tough tackling rough house middle of midfield out of the game it will be a poorer one for me.

      Whilst I agree with the rest of your post sir, I disagree with this bit I'm afraid. It was a deliberate stamp and a red card all day. Not much different to Costa's stamp on Can where we rightly expected punishment, and got it. Atkinson's a sh*t ref and has always cosied up to United, but he wasn't given much choice. He should have shown Herrera a yellow card for his part in the challenge as it was a dangerous lunge and that infuriates me, but can't defend Gerrard for what he did. I know he's a humble man and will be punishing himself far more than we will, but it was a foolish and an emotionally pumped reaction in a game of huge importance, and may even cost us a Champion's League spot.

      We were outplayed in first half, but I still think Brendan's change in second half would have made a big difference. In Sterling, Couts and Studge, we have individuals who could have made a difference but the sending off killed it. It's Stevie, so of course I'll forgive him, but it doesn't mean I'm not massively p*ssed off with him for that.

      Having said that, we were outplayed in the first half. They pressed us high up the pitch and didn't let our midfield have any time on the ball. It was similar to the way Swansea came at us and we were fortunate to come away with a win, so perhaps BR was naive in this game. He should have taken the Swansea warning signs on board to alter his tactics against a side that play with midfield-heavy tactics.

      It was a horrible day and I virtually spent it avoiding conversation with anyone as I was a step away from an angry outburst. It wasn't just that we lost at home to a team I despise more than any other, nor the fact that it was a huge opportunity to get into top 4, it was the manner of the loss. It's not all over, I think United will drop points not just against the big teams they have coming up but smaller teams as well, so we better buckle up and go on a run, but it's a day that will take a while to get over.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #647: Mar 23, 2015 11:55:06 am
      Whilst I agree with the rest of your post sir, I disagree with this bit I'm afraid. It was a deliberate stamp and a red card all day. Not much different to Costa's stamp on Can where we rightly expected punishment, and got it. Atkinson's a sh*t ref and has always cosied up to United, but he wasn't given much choice. He should have shown Herrera a yellow card for his part in the challenge as it was a dangerous lunge and that infuriates me, but can't defend Gerrard for what he did. I know he's a humble man and will be punishing himself far more than we will, but it was a foolish and an emotionally pumped reaction in a game of huge importance, and may even cost us a Champion's League spot.



      Atkinson got plenty wrong yesterday but he did book Herrera for the challenge

      As I said Ozi I'm not defending Steven..  Just saying that I think both could have gotten a yellow in the whole context of it.. I think it was a rash red.
      However I've only seen it live at the game and not watched back yet. But in the context I felt that he could have managed the situation better.

      I think that football is worse if we take away those types of aspects away from it

      But I'm not saying that I can't see why it was given just that I don't think I would have done. I've seen worse and the game has always survived that edge to it
      redkop63
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #648: Mar 23, 2015 12:04:14 pm
      Don't talk nonsense, see my post in the 'we've been Sussed out' thread where I've criticised the manager. For not tweaking the system now that managers have come up with a way to nullify it. However, it Doesn't take anything away from the fine performances we put in against spurs, city and saints, all BIG games which your previous post fails to recognise.

      Did you actually follow my posts, I wonder? I heaped as much praise as criticism on the players and managers. Please do not defend something which is undefendable.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #649: Mar 23, 2015 12:08:27 pm
      When the going got tough too many of our players went missing, and as Mick has noted this was the opportunity for our VC to stand up and be counted.
      We are in danger of becoming a soft touch, playing well when the opposition lets us but don't want to or can't dig in when the situation arises.
      The Mad man of last year would have been raging at the players yesterday and Would have left Jones and Smalling know they that'd been in a battle.

      With the retirement of Gerrard and Lucas probably off we will have no warriors left to take the battle to the opposition.

      Who ever we recruit next season mentality is going to be just as important as technical ability.
      marska43
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #650: Mar 23, 2015 12:20:32 pm
      Cannot remember the last time I was left that frustrated at the end of a match. First half we were awful and let them dictate the play. We did not press at all, and it felt as if they had an extra man on the pitch already. Was not too worried at the half though as I am confident in BR making the fix. Was happy to see Stevie and thought we'd go to a diamond again as we did vs Swansea. Then that all went down the tubes in 40 seconds time, and I really felt for BR at that moment. Credit to the players, they fought back but we, once again, did not look sharp with our passing when we needed it the most.
      Migs: Back to him old self at times with the ball at his feet, but great PK save.
      Can: Starting to worry me a bit. Currently in a bad run of form as his defending is nonexistent at times.
      Skrtle: Not his greatest game and I certainly hope his alleged stamp is overlooked.
      Sahko: Played well, although both goals came on his side of the pitch.
      Moreno: Awful. He's usually average at best but he was so bad yesterday. At fault for both goals and lost possession at every chance.
      Sterling: Non-effective. We need Ibe back asap for that wing back position, and I'd love to see Rahemm partner Studge up front.
      Hendo: poor 1st half but played well in the 2nd.
      Allen: Non effective. If he is not pressing, we may as well have someone else in there.
      Lallana: One of my favorites, but he struggled. He really should have finished his chance.
      Couts: Played ok. He is the focal point of the opposition's marking now and rightly so.
      Studge: Good goal, but feel he is not as big of a threat to other teams as he was last year. He needs a strike partner, and not Mario.

      Mario: Was another red waiting to happen.
      Gerrard: speaks for itself. However if anyone needs a stamp, it may as well be Herrera. I hate that little pr**k.

      We must beat Arsenal for any hope of staying in top 4.
      ozi_wozzy
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,552 posts | 304 
      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #651: Mar 23, 2015 12:21:44 pm
      Atkinson got plenty wrong yesterday but he did book Herrera for the challenge

      My apologies mate, he did. Still a p*ss poor excuse of a referee though.

      On the red card, let's agree to disagree. Overall though, up until that point, we were the second best team. Stevie livened up the game as soon as he came on, so we will never know if we would have got back into it, I'd like to think we would have, but he should never have even given a trigger happy ref like Atkinson the chance to send him off :(
      Tadders
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #652: Mar 23, 2015 12:28:30 pm
      United played against us like we played against them when they were top dogs. Simple - were thought we could rely on our football and tactics - they played like it was a derby and played from the first second like their lives depended on it.

      No excuses whatsoever, we would have lost regardless. A Bad loss but we must learn from it.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #653: Mar 23, 2015 12:28:58 pm
      My apologies mate, he did. Still a p*ss poor excuse of a referee though.

      On the red card, let's agree to disagree. Overall though, up until that point, we were the second best team. Stevie livened up the game as soon as he came on, so we will never know if we would have got back into it, I'd like to think we would have, but he should never have even given a trigger happy ref like Atkinson the chance to send him off :(

      Mate to to stress I'm not defending the red card and saying that 100% it wasn't and we were robbed with it.. I said earlier that I can see why it was but I think a better referee could have handled it differently.

      The situation in general.

      Atkinson was a discrace though.. I'm not one for lambasting them normally but he was terrible. How he can book Allen for the rug but let Felliani go for half a dozen fouls is beyond me. How he can let Jones ( or was it Smalling) go for the foul on Henderson.. How he can see the Gerrard one and have a good view but be told by his Lino to send him.. It's 30 seconds into the half

      He managed the game woefully


      Like I say mate in not saying it wasn't a red.. I just think he didn't neccessarily need to give one at that point in the half when it wasn't [that] vicious more petulant at the tackle from Herrera
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #654: Mar 23, 2015 01:10:00 pm
      Mate to to stress I'm not defending the red card and saying that 100% it wasn't and we were robbed with it.. I said earlier that I can see why it was but I think a better referee could have handled it differently.

      The situation in general.

      Atkinson was a discrace though.. I'm not one for lambasting them normally but he was terrible. How he can book Allen for the rug but let Felliani go for half a dozen fouls is beyond me. How he can let Jones ( or was it Smalling) go for the foul on Henderson.. How he can see the Gerrard one and have a good view but be told by his Lino to send him.. It's 30 seconds into the half

      He managed the game woefully


      Like I say mate in not saying it wasn't a red.. I just think he didn't neccessarily need to give one at that point in the half when it wasn't [that] vicious more petulant at the tackle from Herrera

      Whether its the first minute or the 90th, its a red card. Atkinson had no choice. There is no 'a better referee would have handled it differently' about the matter, its a red card.

      You cant lunge in 2 feet studs up and break somebodys leg or rugby tackle a striker through on goal and then say 'come on ref don't send me off its the first minute'. 

      He got that decision right but agree that in general his refereeing was shockingly poor yesterday.


      JD
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #655: Mar 23, 2015 03:19:34 pm
      Awful yesterday.  Being there you knew after about 10 minutes it wasn't going to be our day.  Allen and Fellaini was a total mismatch.  Not sure how that was allowed to continue. 

      Giggs even came on to the coaches area to shout Fellaini to stick closer to Allen because the big Belgian was winning everything.

      I'm assuming Lucas was fit hence being on the bench so either he should have been brought on or Can should have moved up and even brought Johnson on to replace him at the back.

      We got it wrong in terms of preparation and not reacting quick enough to make obvious changes.  I was trying to narrow the number of potential subs down to three at half time so how we ended up with a spare sub at the end of the game is beyond me.

      Hugely disappointing. 

      As for Gerrard, when he came running down the touchline in the first half doing the five fingered salute to the United fans - you just knew he'd brought too much emotion into the game.
      insideanfield
      • Forum Sami Hyypia
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #656: Mar 23, 2015 04:56:12 pm
      Anyone who says Martin Skrtel's stamp on DDG was not deliberate needs their head testing.  He has actually altered his stride a touch to make sure he caught him.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSLTCCAtAA#ws

      BBC now report that he could face a 3-match ban along with Steven Gerrard.  :f_wah:
      HScRed1
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #657: Mar 23, 2015 05:16:14 pm
      Looking at that Im not so sure as he doesnt change his direction and is running in a straight line and in trying to slow down he is obviously going to change his stride.

      But end of the day only Martin knows if he meant it, either way FA will more than likely punish him with a ban.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #658: Mar 23, 2015 06:19:53 pm
      imagine if instead of stamping when the herrera tackle came in , Gerrard went down and clutched his ankle for 2 mins?

      Our players have gotta be smarter/savvy.

      PastorGeek
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #659: Mar 23, 2015 06:20:38 pm
      Looking at that Im not so sure as he doesnt change his direction and is running in a straight line and in trying to slow down he is obviously going to change his stride.

      But end of the day only Martin knows if he meant it, either way FA will more than likely punish him with a ban.

      https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/580059834856423424
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #660: Mar 23, 2015 06:42:09 pm

      Of course they charged him... Regardless of whether he meant it or not those cu*ts were always going to throw him a ban.

      Wonder whether they look into the 2 jones tackles or the absolute fucktard of a referee who was so biased its unbelievable.

      Also, even though it was going out for a throw Di Maria handled a ball in play... Keepers get red for slightly stepping out the box by mistake, this was a mistake too but still should have been punished.
      Redangel
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #661: Mar 23, 2015 06:54:09 pm
      Joke of a decision, the FA were always going to charge Martin, the fact that Jones should have been off at least twice and Atkinson is totally inept as a referee will be brushed under the carpet!
      The FA are in danger of becoming the same sort of laughing stock as FIFA. Edit, the FA and FIFA are both laughing stocks!
      DanMann
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #662: Mar 23, 2015 07:58:27 pm
      Only one player in that incident should be banned, and that's De Gea.

      Did he or did he not bring his hands to the throat of Skrtel??
      billythered
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #663: Mar 23, 2015 08:37:30 pm
      It has taken me over 26 hrs to calm down after that disgraceful display by that f***in eejit of a ref, the standard of refereeing in the epl is absolutely shocking, as usual the FA will do F**k all about it and are happy to sweep sh*t under their carpet whilst ripping off honest hard working folk who click thru turnstiles week in week out,

      I'm f***in gutted at losing to that shower of kunts, but we didn't deserve anything after that abysmal first half performance, I can't decide whether Brendan fu**ed up tactically or if the players collectively had a massive brain fart, perhaps both contributed to what I consider one of the worst performances since Rodgers took over, and to do it against that f***in lot is the worst feeling ever,

      It's easy in hindsight to have a pop at individuals but right from the off wee Joe up against that cheating KUNT Failanni the fanny was a total f***in mis-match and one Brendan should have rectified straight away, and why didn't he ?

      Dare I say Brendan took things for granted in believing we would control midfield, but it wasn't just the mis-matching or the lack of control was it ?

      We were out played, out thought and it hurts me to say this but we lacked fight, passion and desire, to put it simply, they wanted it more than our players did, and that is simply not good enough for this club, it's as if the knew they would lose and didn't give a flying F**k if we did,

      I'm usually quite reserved when we lose because usually when we lose we have at least battled and gave our all, sadly I can't say we got close to that yesterday,
      That performance I would expect from a side resigned to relegation not a team that had they won would almost guarantee a CL spot next season, our goal this season from that very first whistle back in August,

      So what now, well we carry on and hope to reach that CL goal, however, we have made it a lot more difficult now and compounded by losing Skrtel our best defender for two of the next eight league fixtures, we also lose Stevie for what is supposedly a celebration of his career at LFC in the final days wearing the shirt,

      We will recover from this of course we will, it's gone now we move on, but I don't ever want to see another performance like that ever again, it was almost embarrassing, those players with the exception of Sakho and Migs, should hang their heads in shame and should at least offer some sort of apology to those who clicked thru the Anfield turnstiles yesterday.



      YNWA
      kinglenny1892
      • Forum Youth Player

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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #664: Mar 23, 2015 08:56:55 pm
      Bias or no bias the referee didn't make Gerrard do that silly challenge or skirtel or ballotelli. The guy should know better by now. The match needed a cool commanding head and he was found wanting on this occasion. With 11 on the pitch we would have got at least a draw. Can't see us getting 4th now and never mind silly nonsense about slips last season,that challenge really WILL have cost us champions league football next season. So disappointed by it.
      QuicoGalante
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #665: Mar 23, 2015 11:54:40 pm
      Didnt know who to go with for MOTM, no one deserved it, but finally went with Migs.
      Sad to realize it was Stevies last match against the scum
      racerx34
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      Re: Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd: In game and post match debate.
      Reply #666: Mar 24, 2015 12:23:02 am
      At least one lad turned up.

      Boss from Sakho.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOQTagf9ce8#ws

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