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      Europa League participation - yes or no?

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      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #23: Apr 05, 2015 06:19:22 am
      I think this bravado of "we are Liverpool we must finish as high as we can" doesn't have much brains behind it... I think we need more brains behind this thinking...

      I do not want us to reach Europa league football next season. I have always enjoyed it, and wanted it, and watched every game we've been in for 5 or so years, really I have. But now I see where we're going and can't imagine why you'd hope we get Europa League football. Getting up to Braga or Porto in the last 32 or 16 and screwing up our Prem season doesn't do any good. If we're in the right place as a club, sure, but we aren't and haven't been so this longing for European football just so people see LFC in Europe another season isn't very good long term thinking.

      We don't have the squad for European football yet and we'll just get cained and it'll ruin our domestic season. There are even more games in the Europa League and if we couldn't handle the Champions League what chance do we have? I want us to fight to get back into the CL next season so we can STAY there, not scrap in the Europa League, always putting out the best team we can, going down before the season is out.

      We thought when the season started we had a whole wealth of options. We thought we had two squads good enough to put out in Europe... well we don't. Last season we basically had 13, 14 quality players and this season we basically have the same amount. Next season we might have 15 or 16 at best but that's it. We can't get anywhere in Europe and in the Prem with a quality squad that small. We've lived through that. Why would we wish for it again?
      RobieSlick
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #24: Apr 05, 2015 07:49:48 am
      I have a question for you all because I'm torn on this. 5th or 7th? Since we don't look like getting 4th (hell, it was 3rd a two weeks ago!) do we want Europa League football? Will having some form of European football help our Summer recruitment? We need the experience of European football but do we want the distraction of so many matches next year, traveling to all these exotic locations, getting back at 6 a.m. and playing a match at midday on Sunday? Or would it be best if we finished outside of Europe completely like we did two years ago and hope last season's history repeats itself?

      The point of the thread is that the last time we finished 5th we finished 7th the following season. The season after finishing 7th we almost won the title. In fact historically, every English club to compete in the Europa League has had a poor season domestically whilst doing it. Yes we're Liverpool Football Club and yes, I want us to finish as high as we can and yes, there's still a mathematical chance we could finish 4th and let's hope we do but there's no getting away from the facts. Europa League does not seem to agree with English clubs and if it increases our chances of putting in a title challenge next year, would it be so bad?

      Let me be clear though, I am not suggesting we should engineer a 7th place finish, I'm asking for personal opinions on the matter.

      Edit: Changed the title since some people are taking the hump at the mere suggestion of not finishing 5th. Personally I don't give a sh*t. You're 1st or you're no where. :roll:

      No chance of Europa either. Spurs will take that one.

      We will end up 7th behind the mighty Southampton. :(
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #25: Apr 05, 2015 08:04:31 am
      Finishing 5th means we are only 1 place below the Champions league places, finishing 7th means were only the 7ty best team in England, and that would be depressing.
      The Europa league is desperately hard to win, but if we get our sh*t together by then is possible. We must be in Europe to stop our reputation falling anymore. 5th place for sure.
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #26: Apr 05, 2015 08:45:46 am
      And do what in Europa League ? Get knocked out by the likes of Besiktas (who were smashed afterwards by the giants that are Club Brugge) ?
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #27: Apr 05, 2015 09:28:44 am
      No chance of Europa either. Spurs will take that one.

      We will end up 7th behind the mighty Southampton. :(

      haven't spurs got the carling cup uefa place ?
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #28: Apr 05, 2015 09:39:50 am
      No. F**k that to playing in cow paddocks over in the Eastern Bloc.

      Similar to Dalglish's season, finish 7th with a trophy!

      If you could finish 5th without playing in that, what has now become a second class cup then I'd be all for it. it's got no appeal for me, though the cup itself is lovely!
      reddebs
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #29: Apr 05, 2015 10:39:18 am
      Absolutely yes!!

      We should aim to be in the biggest competitions we can and this team and Brendan need as much European experience as possible.  We aren't in a position to pick and choose ffs sake, it's not like we're winning everything in sight.  We have a fabulous group of young players still waiting for their opportunity of 1st team action, the Europa League gives them another competition to get that chance.

      Anyway for now it's a moot point, we're still fighting for CL qualification and until it's mathematically impossible for us to get there I refuse to accept this defeatest thinking.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #30: Apr 05, 2015 11:21:42 am
      It's quite amusing the amount of people firmly saying yes we should, many of whom are the very same people who said they hoped we would finish bottom of our Champions League group so as not to suffer the 'distraction' of Europa League football in the second half of the season. Nonetheless, let me play Devil's advocate for a moment. Let me put two scenarios to you.

      We finish on a high, finishing 5th in the table. We win the FA Cup but it's not enough to attract top talent to the club because we have no Champions League football. Like many English clubs in the competition, we struggle with the shorter rest periods between games, players get tired faster, we suffer injuries and we finish the season once more outside of the top four. That following Summer we're unable to attract top talent, our best players get pissed off with no Champions League football and leave for pastures new. In two seasons time we once more fail to finish in the top four.

      or

      We finish poorly, Spurs and Saints over take us and we finish 7th in the table. We win the FA Cup but it's not enough to attract top talent to the club because we have no Champions League football. Next season, our only commitments are the domestic leagues and Cups. No long distance traveling, no players getting home at 6 a.m. and playing a match at midday two days later, so our players stay fresh. Injuries are few and minor. We stay fresher and fitter longer through the season and we put a title challenge in again. We don't win it but we end the season in the top four. That Summer we're able to attract top talent to the club and loose no more of our best players. The following season we put another title challenge in. The year after that we win it.


      It's all very well saying we should focus on next season but what about long term planning? In the season after next (2016-17), the Premier League will be worth £10.2 million a game but how many games are we going to get if we're a perennial also-ran compared to if we're putting our second title challenge in in three years? The Champions League is worth £40m+ for qualification alone so how long can we afford to be out of that? In a perfect world we compete for the Europa League and put a title challenge in, finishing in the top four next season but what if we don't? What if we struggle like we have in the past? Is one season outside of Europe not better  for us in the long run? There's still the League and FA Cup trophies to win so we could end up putting a title challenge in and winning a trophy. Is that not worth one season less European experience for the players, one season without European Football for the fans? Like I said, I'm playing Devil's advocate.
      reddebs
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #31: Apr 05, 2015 11:37:59 am
      It's quite amusing the amount of people firmly saying yes we should, many of whom are the very same people who said they hoped we would finish bottom of our Champions League group so as not to suffer the 'distraction' of Europa League football in the second half of the season. Nonetheless, let me play Devil's advocate for a moment. Let me put two scenarios to you.

      We finish on a high, finishing 5th in the table. We win the FA Cup but it's not enough to attract top talent to the club because we have no Champions League football. Like many English clubs in the competition, we struggle with the shorter rest periods between games, players get tired faster, we suffer injuries and we finish the season once more outside of the top four. That following Summer we're unable to attract top talent, our best players get pissed off with no Champions League football and leave for pastures new. In two seasons time we once more fail to finish in the top four.

      or

      We finish poorly, Spurs and Saints over take us and we finish 7th in the table. We win the FA Cup but it's not enough to attract top talent to the club because we have no Champions League football. Next season, our only commitments are the domestic leagues and Cups. No long distance traveling, no players getting home at 6 a.m. and playing a match at midday two days later, so our players stay fresh. Injuries are few and minor. We stay fresher and fitter longer through the season and we put a title challenge in again. We don't win it but we end the season in the top four. That Summer we're able to attract top talent to the club and loose no more of our best players. The following season we put another title challenge in. The year after that we win it.


      It's all very well saying we should focus on next season but what about long term planning? In the season after next (2016-17), the Premier League will be worth £10.2 million a game but how many games are we going to get if we're a perennial also-ran compared to if we're putting our second title challenge in in three years? The Champions League is worth £40m+ for qualification alone so how long can we afford to be out of that? In a perfect world we compete for the Europa League and put a title challenge in, finishing in the top four next season but what if we don't? What if we struggle like we have in the past? Is one season outside of Europe not better  for us in the long run? There's still the League and FA Cup trophies to win so we could end up putting a title challenge in and winning a trophy. Is that not worth one season less European experience for the players, one season without European Football for the fans? Like I said, I'm playing Devil's advocate.

      Doesn't matter though mate because it's not going to happen.

      We could win the Title, qualify for and win the Champions League but we still wouldn't bring in the players you think we should do. 

      Whether we attract them or not, unless they're prepared to accept rookie wages to come, they won't be plying their trade for the home team at Anfield. 

      It's been the most successful PR campaign ever seen in football that without CL football we can't compete for the best players. We could be regularly getting through to the QF's, SF's even the final every season but without offering the highest wages they will always choose a different Club than Liverpool.
      Bosnian_Red
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #32: Apr 05, 2015 01:19:20 pm
      We should accept Europa League competition and aim to win it. Because then we can get an entry to the Champions league next season and can also improve the winning mentality of our team. When Gerrard leaves in the summer, we will lack experiencing players in the squad (I believe only Sturridge won something significant then?)

      I firmly believe that Atletico Madrid built their team through Europa League participation and now they are reigning (still) La Liga champions and the finalists of last year's Champions League. You need to start from something and this competition offers that, I think.
      chats
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #33: Apr 05, 2015 01:56:14 pm
      We finish poorly, Spurs and Saints over take us and we finish 7th in the table. We win the FA Cup but it's not enough to attract top talent to the club because we have no Champions League football. Next season, our only commitments are the domestic leagues and Cups

      Win the FA Cup and we're in the Europa League regardless of where we finish!
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #34: Apr 05, 2015 02:16:31 pm
      We should accept Europa League competition and aim to win it. Because then we can get an entry to the Champions league next season and can also improve the winning mentality of our team. When Gerrard leaves in the summer, we will lack experiencing players in the squad (I believe only Sturridge won something significant then?)

      I firmly believe that Atletico Madrid built their team through Europa League participation and now they are reigning (still) La Liga champions and the finalists of last year's Champions League. You need to start from something and this competition offers that, I think.

      totally agree, this ooh players might get tired if they play more than one game a week is nonsense.
      Thaddeus
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #35: Apr 05, 2015 02:31:45 pm
      Always.
      1. Its a route into Europe.
      2. We should always try to finish as high as possible
      3. I get to watch my beloved Liverpool play more games which is great for me
      4. Our players need European experience
      5. For the profile of the club it is better to be in Europe than not at all
      6. The statistical evidence of the "European hangover" is weak at best
      7. Being in Europe improves our European Coefficient which will give us an easier group when we get back into the champions league
      8. The money it gives, whilst small compared to the Champions league, is not totally insignificant. If we a wee way in, we are looking at about the price of a Can, or a Coutinho, even before including gate money.
      9. Its a trophy. Win it one more time and we will be outright the most successful club in the history of the competition
      10. Lists which have 9 reasons should have 10 if it can possibly be helped.
      gareth g
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #36: Apr 05, 2015 02:38:32 pm
      IF we finish in the top six IF we win the FA Cup it's all IF's at the moment! First let's beat Blackburn get our confidence back and concentrate on what games we have left, COYR.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #37: Apr 05, 2015 04:50:24 pm
      I remember too well the decline our club had without European participation.

      It's vital to our club that we maintain presence in any European football.
      JD
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #38: Apr 05, 2015 05:23:01 pm
      Yes for me.

      Players need all the practice of European football they can get.  May well be our best opportunity to get into the Champions League and we could easily suffer early exits in both domestic cups anyway.
      David Wright
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #39: Apr 05, 2015 05:37:59 pm
      The important thing is to qualify, after all we are talking about winning a trophy. Important the team gives it their all, by trying to win the FA cup and obviously finishing as high as possible. This by performing and trying to win all their remaining games.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #40: Apr 05, 2015 07:43:44 pm
      The UEFA Cup is always a yes for me. With the new ruling about winners acquiring automatic qualification for Champions League group stages if the Champions League winners automatically qualify through their domestic competition then it is a no brainer.

      Any competition is an important competition for us. Trophies build legacies.

      Let's get this Season out of the way first and see where we go from there.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #41: Apr 05, 2015 07:47:43 pm
      Always a yes for me. Beyond the standard Liverpool/Europe/trophy, the Europa League is a great chance to give players some kind of European experience, especially guys like Origi, Teixeira, Ilori, etc. who will be on the fringe next year. Not to mention our squad's general lack of European experience got exposed in the CL this season.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #42: Apr 05, 2015 08:21:17 pm
      Always.
      1. Its a route into Europe.
      2. We should always try to finish as high as possible
      3. I get to watch my beloved Liverpool play more games which is great for me
      4. Our players need European experience
      5. For the profile of the club it is better to be in Europe than not at all
      6. The statistical evidence of the "European hangover" is weak at best
      7. Being in Europe improves our European Coefficient which will give us an easier group when we get back into the champions league
      8. The money it gives, whilst small compared to the Champions league, is not totally insignificant. If we a wee way in, we are looking at about the price of a Can, or a Coutinho, even before including gate money.
      9. Its a trophy. Win it one more time and we will be outright the most successful club in the history of the competition
      10. Lists which have 9 reasons should have 10 if it can possibly be helped.

      Yet the season we where in it we finished outside the top four. The season we weren't we almost won the title. It doesn't get much more statistically proven than that. This year, on only two occasions did Spurs win a domestic match after playing in the Europa League. Similarly only on two occasions did Everton win a domestic match after playing in the Europa League. In 2012/13 season, last time we where in the Europa League, we failed to win a single match following a Europa League game. Not all of these where 'big games', some where bread and butter games that you'd expect each team to be winning.

      The rest of your points I agree with but I'm just trying to put both sides of the argument across :)
      MarkMitt
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #43: Apr 05, 2015 08:23:06 pm
      It's only the self righteous premier league that believes the Europa league is a waste of space. Virtually every other nations teams involved tries their utmost. And don't forget, English teams in the CL haven't fared particularly well in recent history. This elitist nonsense is what is ruining the game in this country and making us non competitive.

      My stance remains the same as always. Aim as high as possible and attempt to win every game, regardless.
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #44: Apr 05, 2015 08:36:40 pm
      totally agree, this ooh players might get tired if they play more than one game a week is nonsense.

      I reckon they will though, if the same players are played every Prem game and every Europa game they will fatigue mentally and physically. Imagine if we made the Europa next season. Would you really want Mignolet, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Flanagan, Henderson, Allen, Sterling, Coutinho, Sturridge, Lallana etc. playing two games a week? Of course not. Do we have the depth to rest a bunch of them for the Prem whilst progressing in Europe? Definitely not. We still need to build this core before we think about adding to it and taking on European football, I feel..
      brilad
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      Re: Europa League participation - yes or no?
      Reply #45: Apr 05, 2015 08:51:49 pm
      Doesn't matter though mate because it's not going to happen.

      We could win the Title, qualify for and win the Champions League but we still wouldn't bring in the players you think we should do. 

      Whether we attract them or not, unless they're prepared to accept rookie wages to come, they won't be plying their trade for the home team at Anfield. 

      It's been the most successful PR campaign ever seen in football that without CL football we can't compete for the best players. We could be regularly getting through to the QF's, SF's even the final every season but without offering the highest wages they will always choose a different Club than Liverpool.

      Think this post by debs hits the nail right on it's head.
      We are not going to pay the £200,000 per week top notch players want with our current owners.
      Luis only got that to stay another year and was worthy of every penny.
      Now maybe the owners want a little more time to truly set us up financially as a club who will pay that transfer fee wages I don't know.
      In this day and age of money madness you have to be truly sound financially (arsenal as a example) to start getting the stellar signings in.

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