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      FSG's Most Important Summer?

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      bmck
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #23: Apr 11, 2015 02:52:34 pm
      The excuses are already in place, anyone expecting anything but another underwhelming summer is simply conning themselves.

      As for most important summer, no that was last summer, we had the opportunity to kick on and grab players from the top table and we chose not to. We learned everything we needed to then and nothing will change.

      Agree with most of the OP really, but also with the above :)

      When you look back at last summer, with Luis leaving, it would seem the most blatantly obvious thing to do would be to go out and sign a quality striking replacement. But we didn't. With all the money we had. This was such a singularly bad decision, it's hard to be confident things will be different this summer if same structures/people in place.

      And also after Luis going, we know now if we didn't then, that trying to replace your most influencial players is a much more difficult prospect than pulling all the stops out to keep them (I'm not saying Luis should have stayed, it's more the principle of the thing, that when a top player goes, it not a simple matter to replace them).  So seeing Sterling and Hendo's names in the news as possible leavers is really disappointing.

      Shoot, foot, ourselves ... words that come to mind...
      HScRed1
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #24: Apr 11, 2015 02:57:34 pm
      I actually don't think their policy is that bad. There are plenty of fantastic young players under 25 that can be bought. I would actually prefer us to buy those players than spend ridiculous amounts on 26+ year old players.

      Look at Grizemann for example, he cost £24m, and his wages are below 90k. We just need better advisors and scouts for Rodgers.

      I agree fully we cant compete with Utd or City when it comes to wages but we need to be more clever with our limited resources, unfortunately I have little confidence in Rodgers or the committe on that front.

       I await to be pleasantly surprised.
      stuey
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #25: Apr 11, 2015 03:08:29 pm
      I agree fully we cant compete with Utd or City when it comes to wages but we need to be more clever with our limited resources, unfortunately I have little confidence in Rodgers or the committe on that front.

       I await to be pleasantly surprised.

      A more perverse response to a thread entitled FSG's Most Important Summer? is hard to imagine.
      Is that a wind up?
      stuey
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #26: Apr 11, 2015 03:35:22 pm
      Agree with most of the OP really, but also with the above :)

      When you look back at last summer, with Luis leaving, it would seem the most blatantly obvious thing to do would be to go out and sign a quality striking replacement. But we didn't. With all the money we had. This was such a singularly bad decision, it's hard to be confident things will be different this summer if same structures/people in place.

      And also after Luis going, we know now if we didn't then, that trying to replace your most influencial players is a much more difficult prospect than pulling all the stops out to keep them (I'm not saying Luis should have stayed, it's more the principle of the thing, that when a top player goes, it not a simple matter to replace them).  So seeing Sterling and Hendo's names in the news as possible leavers is really disappointing.

      Shoot, foot, ourselves ... words that come to mind...

      JWH & Co have a stated reluctance to pay the price for the quality that needed replacing when Luis left, apparently the impact on the team created by the massive void does not affect the stated reluctance spoken of.
      If LFC were kicking on and still a viable force in the Prem and/or the CL these rumours and contract delays would be of no concern, however the reality is somewhat different.
      Perhaps the apologists could have a word in the shell likes of Mssrs Henderson, Sterling and any other player who doubts the long term aspiration of JWH & Co.
      srslfc
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #27: Apr 11, 2015 03:38:54 pm
      We have failed to compete for the title this season because we've dropped 19 points against the bottom thirteen clubs in the league. Those nineteen points are the difference between our current position of fifth and our being three points clear at the top of the table. The reason we've lost to those teams was a combination of poor goalkeeping, being over run in midfield and not scoring enough goals. So what needs to be done is a strategy put in place that lays a frame work on how we're going to go about beating those teams and any transfers need to be made in accordance with that strategy. Beat those teams both home and away and you get 93 points which from those games, enough to win the league in most seasons without needing to win any team higher than eighth place. To achieve this you cannot base your recruitment policy on a player being young and/or British and/or cheap. You have to buy the right players regardless of what they cost. Some won't cost a lot, others will, so the club has to be prepared to overhaul its transfer policy with this in mind.




      I think we are singing from the same hymnsheet then.

      Focused transfers on one or two key areas on top quality, proven, experienced players with the aim of winning the league.

      Its exactly what I'm hoping everyone at the club will be aiming for come the summer.
      5timesacharm
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #28: Apr 11, 2015 04:16:51 pm
      I think we are singing from the same hymnsheet then.

      Focused transfers on one or two key areas on top quality, proven, experienced players with the aim of winning the league.

      Its exactly what I'm hoping everyone at the club will be aiming for come the summer.

      The difference is, along with many others, I'm saying we blew it last year. That was our one and only chance to buy those players and we made a conscious decision not to focus on quality and experience, but to go for mediocrity and inexperience in order to achieve the maximum number of players we could buy for the money available to us. Hence why I said, that ship has sailed. Last year was the club's most important Summer unless by some miracle we finish in the top four. The very fact that Danny Ings and James Milner are our top transfers, both available for next to nothing, speaks volumes of not only the club's ambition but also the funds we have to spend this Summer.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #29: Apr 11, 2015 04:28:02 pm
      I'm sure it's been said before many times on this forum but FSG need to revisit their blueprint for success with this club, so far they have failed us on the pitch with their vision of recruitment.

      DaktionLFC
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #30: Apr 11, 2015 05:08:35 pm
      last summer imo was the most important summer.  we needed to build on our success and strengthen the club.  we didnt so we went downhill.

      this summer is to fix what we didnt fix and really it is a hope for the best next season.  no high expectations like we had for this season.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #31: Apr 11, 2015 06:39:15 pm
      Last season WAS their most important summer, this summer I expect a culling of "dead wood" before we make any purchases. I wouldn't be 100% confident about Sterling staying put, If we're smart we'll spend his transfer fee on an even better player, no need to spread the wealth again.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #32: Apr 11, 2015 07:44:18 pm
      no need to spread the wealth again.

      I agree 100% with this but I still believe last summer we had to add to the team overall strength and not just 1-2 players, I just think for the most part we got the wrong players with the exception of Can.

      Now we have depth (although not as good as it could of been) so we zero in our focus on one or two game changers.

      5timesacharm
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #33: Apr 11, 2015 08:49:14 pm
      I agree 100% with this but I still believe last summer we had to add to the team overall strength and not just 1-2 players, I just think for the most part we got the wrong players with the exception of Can.

      Now we have depth (although not as good as it could of been) so we zero in our focus on one or two game changers.

      No, we really didn't. You cut your cloth to suit your means and he made a decision to want to challenge on four fronts. We had no need to. We could have focused on progression from the group stage of the UCL and the title, whilst bedding in the kids in the early rounds of the domestic cups. Ensure we consolidated a top four place for a second year, used the money from the new deal to bring in more players, set targets year on year based upon our increasing strength. In short, Brendan tried to have the team run before it could walk and it spectacularly back fired on him.
      srslfc
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #34: Apr 11, 2015 10:07:25 pm
      The difference is, along with many others, I'm saying we blew it last year. That was our one and only chance to buy those players and we made a conscious decision not to focus on quality and experience, but to go for mediocrity and inexperience in order to achieve the maximum number of players we could buy for the money available to us.

      A very fair point and one I'd agree with although what's done is done and the players we did bring in such as Lovren, Lallana, Markovic have meant we don't need to worry about players of that type this summer.

      It's also why I think this summer is even more important to get right and maybe the phrase 'FSG's most important summer' isn't the best one but I'm very worried, like yourself, that we will see the same old mistakes being made come July.

      I'm sure we have a decent budget on players and I guess the gist of what I'm saying is I'm hoping those inside the club have a focus on that quality player clearly in mind and forget trying to spread ourselves too thin yet again.

      Like I said we cannot turn back the clock but we can use what we already have and stick with it, pad it out wiht the youngsters to use in League Cup etc etc and 'gamble' all our resources, be that £25M, £30M, £35M on one player who could have us seen as a contant threat to those teams you outlined in a previous post from 8th downwards in the league.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #35: Apr 12, 2015 06:35:28 am
      We're getting towards the end of the season and while I normally don't like to look too far ahead, especially with games still to play, my mind has been wandering to the summer and what I feel could be the most crucial summer of FSG's time as owners of the club.

      First things first and barring some sort of disaster Brendan Rodgers will be the manager come the start of next season and depending on how we fair in the FA Cup begins his 4th season in charge possibly still to win a trophy or at best with a cup win behind him following our best League campaign the previous season. He has progressed us as a football club and even though he has made many mistakes along the way he has, by and large, learned from them and moved us forward and if he can add that crucial first piece of silverware in May we will end his 3rd season on a high.

      We have spend Brendan's first three seasons building a stronger squad of players by adding large numbers of players over the transfer windows and I think we have reached the point where we have a strong base of players but the time has come for us to hold onto that squad and build on the groundwork done over the previous transfer windows. With Gerrard definitely gone and Glen probably to follow we are losing another two experienced international footballers to add to Suarez and Carra from the previous season and it is crucial that we replace these players with footballers of character and experience ready to help us challenge from day one come August.

      Everyone at the club should be going into this summer with a clear goal and all working with the same focus and that should be to buy the players to help us win the league. FSG have spent the time building a squad and now we shouldn't be looking to replace 5,6 or 7 players but to lose the deadwood in the side, use the young players coming through to take their place in the squad and spend all the money we have available in terms of transfer fee and wages on one or two ready made big game players.

      Players who dominate a game.

      Players who know what it's like to be a winner.

      Players who think they are better than the one's they are being brought in to play alongside.

      FSG have their critics, of which I have been one, and although having done good things to progress the football club off the field I think they haven't 'gambled' enough on it and sometimes the manager is working with one hand tied behind his back. But having said that we have built a squad over the last few years that looks like it is close to being a contender, for want of a better term, and they are so close to getting things right, which is why I feel the transfer window ahead is arguably the most important under their ownership.

      Will we see the same old FSG policy of spreading the risk and asking the manager to mould yet another group of kids?

      Or will they sense what some of us may well sense in that we are very close and taking that gamble could well be much less of a gamble that they think it might be?

      Good OP srslfc,

      I tried to remain objective when I first joined these boards as I didn't want to be part of the 'sheeple' who are all buddy buddy with each other for the sake of a clique. There are/were many cynics of FSG on this board and I was quite startled by what appeared to me, to be a lack of gratitude on these boards concerning them. I thought this was militant hangover from H&G but alas it does appear the cynics have been justified and I've started to come round to their way of thinking. They have made some fair points and going by their observations it would be fair to say we are in for another summer of underwhelming activity. I always held out hope, we'd sign a worldy or two; just as I always hold out hope that at the start of every season I'm hopeful we'll win the league. Neither eventuate and it continues to be an uphill battle on all fronts, not just on the pitch but contracts, transfers, committees the lot.

      The cynics, unfortunately, have been proven right and either we'll make another scatter-gun approach to signings, or just fumble around in circles over the summer getting sweet FA done. Let's be fair to the cynics, they were right in that we didn't replace Suarez and scattered that spending. Had Markovic, Lovren, Moreno and whoever else we splurged that money on been much more successful I would have remained in 'hope' more of FSG's transfer policies. Only Can has showed any kind of quality and potential IMO and that simply is not enough of a return re the departure of Suarez. I was willing to see them out here, I did, but nothing came of this approach. Then we have Raheem who on principle I still doubt and see as mercenary rather than having any affiliation to Liverpool or it's fans.Usually, I couldn't be bothered in losing too much sleep to character's of his ilk and in essence would be only too happy to waving goodbye to another Micky Owen. But does the club and it's policies play into the hands of little upstarts like Sterling? However, whether I've been reading too many cynical posts and whether this forum has rubbed off on me, I don't know but I can't see the club adequately replacing the likes of Raheem and Gerrard etc, come the summer.

      Depressing sh*t.

       :(
      « Last Edit: Apr 12, 2015 07:00:47 am by Beerbelly »
      AZPatriot
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #36: Apr 12, 2015 08:00:59 am
      No, we really didn't. You cut your cloth to suit your means and he made a decision to want to challenge on four fronts. We had no need to. We could have focused on progression from the group stage of the UCL and the title, whilst bedding in the kids in the early rounds of the domestic cups. Ensure we consolidated a top four place for a second year, used the money from the new deal to bring in more players, set targets year on year based upon our increasing strength. In short, Brendan tried to have the team run before it could walk and it spectacularly back fired on him.

      That is your opinion but I still contend that when you are constantly trotting out Victor Moses, Ally Cissihko, Luis Alberto and Iago Aspas off your bench you have depth issues...plain and simple because your not going to cut cloth, paper or sh*t for that matter with guys like that coming off your bench.
      srslfc
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #37: Apr 12, 2015 10:02:52 am
      Good OP srslfc,

      I tried to remain objective when I first joined these boards as I didn't want to be part of the 'sheeple' who are all buddy buddy with each other for the sake of a clique. There are/were many cynics of FSG on this board and I was quite startled by what appeared to me, to be a lack of gratitude on these boards concerning them. I thought this was militant hangover from H&G but alas it does appear the cynics have been justified and I've started to come round to their way of thinking. They have made some fair points and going by their observations it would be fair to say we are in for another summer of underwhelming activity. I always held out hope, we'd sign a worldy or two; just as I always hold out hope that at the start of every season I'm hopeful we'll win the league. Neither eventuate and it continues to be an uphill battle on all fronts, not just on the pitch but contracts, transfers, committees the lot.

      The cynics, unfortunately, have been proven right and either we'll make another scatter-gun approach to signings, or just fumble around in circles over the summer getting sweet FA done. Let's be fair to the cynics, they were right in that we didn't replace Suarez and scattered that spending. Had Markovic, Lovren, Moreno and whoever else we splurged that money on been much more successful I would have remained in 'hope' more of FSG's transfer policies. Only Can has showed any kind of quality and potential IMO and that simply is not enough of a return re the departure of Suarez. I was willing to see them out here, I did, but nothing came of this approach. Then we have Raheem who on principle I still doubt and see as mercenary rather than having any affiliation to Liverpool or it's fans.Usually, I couldn't be bothered in losing too much sleep to character's of his ilk and in essence would be only too happy to waving goodbye to another Micky Owen. But does the club and it's policies play into the hands of little upstarts like Sterling? However, whether I've been reading too many cynical posts and whether this forum has rubbed off on me, I don't know but I can't see the club adequately replacing the likes of Raheem and Gerrard etc, come the summer.

      Depressing sh*t.

       :(

      I think you've hit on why I started this thread Beer.

      I think what I, and many others, want to happen over the summer is what I mention in the OP. Clear, focused thinking and adding those one or two players that will, potentially, take us to where we want to be.

      My fear is those within the club aren't thinking along these lines and we are in for another summer of spreading the risk and trying to be too clever.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #38: Apr 12, 2015 10:13:51 am
      "FSG's Most Important Summer?" Last Summer.

      Money was there [City & Chelsea type money  ;)]; kudos [Champions League football] was there and title rivals were on the ropes [just like the season before btw] and just like the previous season...

      The same path was chosen - potential quality & low financial risk over proven quality with higher financial risk. A, long-term, well documented, strategy which might, (it's still being argued), eventually, maybe, perhaps, somewhere down the line, deliver a title-winning team. A strategy which has at it's heart finance and 'good business practice' rather than football... better to risk football success than profit.

      The Club's, footballing, objectives/goals, for this season were set out: consolidation in a Champions League qualifying place - with our signings it was the best we could hope for, really - the manger referenced it and many fans (even tho' they were "happy with our transfer business"  :-\) acknowledged it. There was "always next season" after all.

      Well... "next season" is soon to be upon us and whilst I believe that there's still a chance that we can qualify for the Champions League; I want our targets set higher than that next season. In my opinion: a move away (if even only temporarily) from the business-centric, 'potential quality', transfer policy towards a more football-centric 'proven quality' view is what's needed.

      Are we a season (or two) too late? I hope not but hey... if not this Summer - there's always next year; right?   :angel:
      srslfc
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #39: Apr 12, 2015 10:23:01 am
      Like Bad Bay said, and a few others have mentioned, we should have got it right last summer.

      The reason I think this coming one is now even more important is I think we could be running out of time to 'get things right' and in a danger of another season like this one and pressure growing on the manager which FSG could act on and fire him.

      Then we potentially go back to square one.
      « Last Edit: Apr 12, 2015 10:36:39 am by srslfc »
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #40: Apr 12, 2015 10:34:37 am
      Then we potantially go back to square one.
      That's the fear mate.

      Will FSG move away from a low risk, business (their business) strategy, which might bring proper football success [titles] to a higher risk, football based policy, which might bring business success? As a Liverpool F.C. football fan - I genuinely hope so.
      srslfc
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #41: Apr 12, 2015 10:39:29 am
      That's the fear mate.

      Will FSG move away from a low risk, business (their business) strategy, which might bring proper football success [titles] to a higher risk, football based policy, which might bring business success? As a Liverpool F.C. football fan - I genuinely hope so.


      I think most people who look at our squad now see that we don't need anymore filler or adding to it just to get though the amount of games in a season.

      I'm one that would even be happy to leave everything expect the attack alone and use the budget to get that player who will get the goals we are lacking.

      If you look at the table Southampton have conceded 14 less than us yet are only two points better off with a game more played.

      Arsenal, conceded only 4 less than us so similar, but have scored 18 more and are ten points better of sitting in 2nd.

      Goals win games.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #42: Apr 12, 2015 11:10:37 am
      I'm one that would even be happy to leave everything expect the attack alone and use the budget to get that player who will get the goals we are lacking.
      I can see that mate.

      On the subject of goals - Brendan once stated 'to reach top four... you need seventy plus goals' - there's a video of him saying just that, on here, somewhere. Earlier in the season I mentioned this on here. It was plain to see (in my half-daft head anyhow) that, even at that point, 70+ goals were going to be hard to come by.

      This 'fact' (or so I saw it) also added weight to my opinion that there was no way a man, who believed a team needs goals, would have given direction for us to replace Luis Suarez with Mario Balotelli. Nor would he have (again to my mind) decided upon spending so little, in comparison with other areas, on attack. That 'direction' (I believe) had to come from elsewhere.

      As it transpires - it now looks that we will still need at least one top class striker and a top class midfielder [whilst we wait on potential to be fulfilled]. We wasted yet another season; threw away yet another chance and will have to start the search again but search we must... if we are to be taken as serious contenders. No F***ing about - get those two in first and worry about bit-part players later... if you really need to.

      I reckon we won't be into the Summer window long before we know our fate. It's going to be interesting.  :nod:


      5timesacharm
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #43: Apr 12, 2015 06:27:47 pm
      I would argue we're already back to square one. The end of a successful era, an ageing squad is mostly moved on, mistakes are made in the transfer window, the wrong managers appointed to the wrong club at the wrong time twice in a row, a resurgence of rival clubs...sound familiar? There's plenty of parallels between Souness and Evans in the early nighties, and Hodgson and Dalglish's tenure . The point is we now in a situation facing us this Summer where all our top players - our match winners - have moved on and we're left with a team that shows no sign of releasing its potential.

      I understand where you're coming from when you say this is FSG's most important Summer but realistically, looking at the work needed to our team, how much money do you think we need to spend to bring this club up to speed with the squads at Arsenal, Chelsea and the rebuilding work that will certainly go on in City and United during the Summer? Does FSG have the kind of money needed? More to the point, can you see them handing that money to the committee for transfers? We had that money last season and we blew it. I doubt very much we'll ever see that sort of transfer budget handed to the manager ever again.

      srslfc
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #44: Apr 12, 2015 07:26:38 pm
      I understand where you're coming from when you say this is FSG's most important Summer but realistically, looking at the work needed to our team, how much money do you think we need to spend to bring this club up to speed with the squads at Arsenal, Chelsea and the rebuilding work that will certainly go on in City and United during the Summer? Does FSG have the kind of money needed? More to the point, can you see them handing that money to the committee for transfers? We had that money last season and we blew it. I doubt very much we'll ever see that sort of transfer budget handed to the manager ever again.



      I think if we are clever we can bridge any gap between us and the others mate but I worry that we aren't going to be clever and go off on the usual route of trying to spread the money and fix everything that is wrong with the squad.

      I'm pretty sure our budget won't be as much a last year but that is why we need to be clever and fix, what I feel is the most important area, the goal scoring problem and use the kids coming through instead of trying to buy more squad filler.

      We need to forget about adding more numbers to the squad and we can easily lose at least 7 players from our books without anyone noticing too much that those players had gone.

      « Last Edit: Apr 12, 2015 08:40:30 pm by srslfc »
      FL Red
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      Re: FSG's Most Important Summer?
      Reply #45: Apr 12, 2015 10:56:33 pm
      I think last summer was their most important and we saw how that went. I have no faith that this summer will be anything other than underwhelming. I am all for uncovering gems and developing youth but at some point you have to add proven, experienced, difference makers.

      We need more goals, so go get someone that can create their own scoring chances. We need more steel in midfield, so go get soneone to provide that.

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