FSG's Most Important Summer?

I quite agree with that. I once started a thread using baseball terminology/thinking to analyse our situation, particularly the "rebuilding" vs "win now" attitudes that are so commonly used to describe dealings by MLB teams.

I think last summer was the moment to turn the key for the "win now" mode for the many reasons you mentioned. We actually spent a lot and in areas of the pitch we really needed reinforcements - fullbacks, upfront, defensive midfielder, etc - but in hindsight the level of those signings is what has been most disappointing.

This summer is important? Absolutely. We should do our best to ensure last season wasn't just a fluke. But last summer (and last season in general, though for different reasons) really was a missed opportunity.

I agree 100% that last summer was a missed opportunity Diego and we really should have gambled then.

What's done is done though and puts even more importance on getting it right this season.

I never mentioned United 

It staggers the imagination.......

You really hate the owners that much you think United spent more wisely , Di Maria, Rojo and Falcao on the bench at the weekend and have been dropped because the coach favours Felanni, Mata, and Jones players they already had so tell me how they have strengthened in the right positions.

If we had spent that sort of money on just them three we would be in a mess under FFP rules as well as no much better off on the pitch. Then add Luke Shaw into the mix who the manager said he didnt rate and was unfit at beginning of the season.

So of all the great signings you state united made to improve them only Blind has started regular, but knowing united fans they are happy that Carick replaces him when he is fit and are fuming they let Fletcher go.

Yeah the throwing money at signings really works.

He's clearly talking about Southampton's approach to signings Vs Liverpool's.
Ya Looney.

They spent the Suarez money better than we did.
I see you've chosen Mane and Long over Tadic, Pelle and Forster when comparing the summers.
Cool story bro.

They also turned over 20 Million profit.

From 7th to 2nd in the space of a season, and missing out on the title only by the slip of a boot. A young, innovative manager at the helm who had the team playing absolutely scintillating football the like of which we haven't seen in decades. Seventy five million quid from the sale of Luis Suarez. Our rivals going through transition. It would have been nigh on impossible to imagine a more auspicious set of circumstances only a couple of seasons ago and it was as good an opportunity as was ever likely to arrive to restore the club to its position as one of the pre-eminent clubs in Europe, capable of challenging for and winning major trophies, in as short a time as possible.

What was a reasonable expectation of a Liverpool supporter in those circumstances? I think it was that, accepting as we had to that it was impossible to truly replace Suarez, and that our rivals surely would improve, nevertheless we ought to have bought players using the leverage of our position who could come into to the side and instantly improve it; players who would slot in alongside the likes of Coutinho, Sterling and Sturridge and who genuinely wouldn't look out of place, and who knows, may even look a touch better. How many of these players was it reasonable to expect us to sign? I think had we signed two such players, we would have done the minimum necessary to capitalise on our favourable circumstances, but with seventy five million quid + sales to spend, you might have expected one or two more. I personally would have settled for two such players; a striker and a midfielder, plus a LB and CB in the 10-20m range. Posters at the time mentioned the likes of Fabregas, Pogba and Isco as being possible targets. I don't know how realistic those particular suggestions were, but surely the players were out there had we been willing to go and get them.

As it turned out, we signed an odd mixture of players which didn't include even one of the minimum two required to help balance out the loss of Suarez and of that group only really Emre Can has proven good value THIS season. I'm sure we will eventually see a lot more from at least two of Moreno, Lovren, Lallana and Markovic, but clearly as far as taking advantage of our good position last summer was concerned, we failed big time, and that failure was dramatically exposed when Sturridge got injured early on. It was further compounded by our lack of activity in the January window, and I would place more emphasis in explaining our current predicament on our failure to sign the right players in these two transfer windows than I would on the way the manager has used the squad at his disposal.

The question is: how much has it cost us? Whoever we had signed last summer I always thought it would be very difficult to match what we did in the league last season, particularly in light of what Chelsea were doing business-wise, and the fact that when you lose a player as other-worldly as Suarez you are bound to find it difficult to adapt. At the very least, though, it has probably cost us a top four spot, and whatever else we could have achieved in Europe and the cups. We lost the momentum of the moment and we now have to try and regain some of it THIS summer by doing what we failed to do last summer; only this time without the benefit of CL football, the kudos of finishing 2nd, and the massive windfall we gained from the sale of Suarez.

If we repeat the same mistakes again then I think we will be at serious risk of becoming stuck in a perpetual battle for fourth place, as Man City and Chelsea will continue to spunk silly money whatever the weather, while both the Mancs and Arsenal will be difficult to displace unless we step it up a level on the transfer front.

I don't know what the owners will do but the one thing I hope they appreciate (and that they ought to, provided they aren't sheisters of the H&G variety), is that even from a sustainable business point of view it makes sense that we are as successful as possible. My concern is whether they believe they can persist with a transfer strategy that isn't sufficiently geared towards signing players of proven ability who can go straight into the team, because it saves them money, but still expect the manager to consistently finish above teams who are aiming for bigger targets. Are they hoping merely to secure a ''best of both worlds'' Arsenal-type situation, which involves selling our best players, making the top four, increasing the stadium capacity etc. and bringing in as much income as possible, without taking the bigger risks needed to take on the likes of Chelsea and Man City? A comfy situation for them as investors, but one that is diametrically opposed to our values as supporters.

He's clearly talking about Southampton's approach to signings Vs Liverpool's.
Ya Looney.

They spent the Suarez money better than we did.
I see you've chosen Mane and Long over Tadic, Pelle and Forster when comparing the summers.
Cool story bro.

They also turned over 20 Million profit.

No story, as for Tadic Pelle and Forster would you have been happy at the start of the season with them? say yes and your lying. Actually Southampton signings and way of doing things is very FSG if somewhat more frugal. But like i said the difference is they made one signing that beat all others.....the manager.

No story, as for Tadic Pelle and Forster would you have been happy at the start of the season with them? say yes and your lying. Actually Southampton signings and way of doing things is very FSG if somewhat more frugal. But like i said the difference is they made one signing that beat all others.....the manager.

I'd gladly have us sign Forster.
No I'm not lying.
Tadic and Pelle for less than the price of Lallana, F***ing right I'd be happier.

I'd gladly have us sign Forster.
No I'm not lying.
Tadic and Pelle for less than the price of Lallana, f**king right I'd be happier.

Dont believe that for one bit you are just looking at hindsight, If Spurs or the Scum had signed lallana and at the begining of the season we had Tadic and Pelle this forum including you would be up in arms.

Regardless of who we signed, or who else signed whoever, we missed a trick not buying a decent Suarez replacement when we had a F**k load of finances. Now it's going to be even harder to do so. But more than spending power, it's down to hard work and commitment. It needs to be instilled from the top down and right now as a collective, the team/squad don't work hard enough. Players want to play, regardless of the team they're at. If they're not working hard enough and aren't completely shattered after every game, then they should be dropped. As for missing a trick with the Suarez money, we know generally south American strikers have a high work rate. That's where we need to make our next purchase in the summer even if it means breaking the bank.

Dont believe that for one bit you are just looking at hindsight, If Spurs or the Scum had signed lallana and at the begining of the season we had Tadic and Pelle this forum including you would be up in arms.

I don't need you to believe it.
I didn't see too many up in arms when they signed Shaw.

Every Summer, every window has been important. And every single one has been jawdroppingly disapppointing, even shocking. Thats the problem with football fans.They always want to tell themselves "the good times are just round the corner", "just two top players away" etc etc.
Its like the boy who kept crying wolf.

Fenway have been "successful" in their objectives. They dont give a sh*t about ours. They target top 5 or 6 and are happy. They've had since 2010 to aim for better. But every time they chose not to.

We need to address the whole spine of the team I'm afraid.I know wholesale changes isn't ideal but migs needs challenging or replacing, we haven't replaced hyppia or carragher at the back, with sg going we need some pace and power and mobility in there, and we need an established striker who can score goals but again with the way we play they need ape and power and maybe trickery, studge is happier with a partner taking the limelight.luckily plenty of deadwood to shift, Jones, Skrtel,toure,henrique,allen,aspas,boticelli,boringly,lambo and luckily we have some good youth which needs a chance.texeira,rossiter,ojo,wisdom and the one i'd like to see Lori.need flanno back to.

Jones, Skrtel,toure,henrique,allen,aspas,boticelli,boringly,lambo

I only disagree with you on Skrtel and Migs; The guy is on pace to win the golden glove and I think a lot of his issues earlier were down to the 4 players in front of him, he needs to work on distribution and positioning but his shot blocking cannot be taught. Skrtel/Sahko is a fine pairing that I think will continue to grow and improve.

As far as the rest of the players you mention I agree 100% but I disagree that we need to address the spine of the team..because simply put those players (with the exception of possibly Allen are not the spine)

1. Top Striker (20+ goals no questions asked as sure fire a scorer that is available)
2. A mid-fielder that pushes Lucas to the bench and Allen out of the squad)
3. Goal Keeper to replace Jones.

If we kept everyone else, brought in those 3 players above, recalled Illori/Origin back from loan, and kept Daniel healthy we are challenging for the title.

It all depends on that goal scorer; if we had Daniel healthy this year and a 20/year partner next to him we would be right there fighting at the top, of that I have no doubt.

they have to buy 3 25-30mil players and we are a title contender worthy side IMO, the bad luck we've had and we are still 4 pts from 4th says alot about the charachter of this young team.
1. a stiker
2. creative midfilder who can also play deep
3. RWB
4. a cheap back up GK maybe free agent Petr Chech maybe or bring back Reina!!

I only disagree with you on Skrtel and Migs; The guy is on pace to win the golden glove and I think a lot of his issues earlier were down to the 4 players in front of him, he needs to work on distribution and positioning but his shot blocking cannot be taught. Skrtel/Sahko is a fine pairing that I think will continue to grow and improve.

As far as the rest of the players you mention I agree 100% but I disagree that we need to address the spine of the team..because simply put those players (with the exception of possibly Allen are not the spine)

1. Top Striker (20+ goals no questions asked as sure fire a scorer that is available)
2. A mid-fielder that pushes Lucas to the bench and Allen out of the squad)
3. Goal Keeper to replace Jones.

If we kept everyone else, brought in those 3 players above, recalled Illori/Origin back from loan, and kept Daniel healthy we are challenging for the title.

It all depends on that goal scorer; if we had Daniel healthy this year and a 20/year partner next to him we would be right there fighting at the top, of that I have no doubt.

I actually think we need a top striker and to replace Lovren with a reliable CB, but not much else. We can push Can into the DM position alongside Hendo, behind Sterling, Couts, Lallana, Studge and whatever striker combination we have would be boss.

Can is a bit of a debate, I know he's been excellent as CB but he has barely been given a chance in the midfield, I think it's a role he can grow into and become as good if not better than Mascha because, unlike Mascha, he can bomb forward.

As for the question of whether this is FSG's most important summer, I would have to say yes. This summer will signal if they are capable of adapting their very rigid framework to bring in quality and set out a clearer long term vision. They have done well to stabilise the club's finances, start the new stadium and bring in a young, exciting manager whilst keeping out of the limelight. It's time to step up the efforts to make us a serious title challenger. That does not mean spending big, it just means having more flexibility on the wage structure and backing the manager with the right acquisitions. It's a very important summer.

I actually think we need a top striker and to replace Lovren with a reliable CB, but not much else. We can push Can into the DM position alongside Hendo, behind Sterling, Couts, Lallana, Studge and whatever striker combination we have would be boss.

Can is a bit of a debate, I know he's been excellent as CB but he has barely been given a chance in the midfield, I think it's a role he can grow into and become as good if not better than Mascha because, unlike Mascha, he can bomb forward.

As for the question of whether this is FSG's most important summer, I would have to say yes. This summer will signal if they are capable of adapting their very rigid framework to bring in quality and set out a clearer long term vision. They have done well to stabilise the club's finances, start the new stadium and bring in a young, exciting manager whilst keeping out of the limelight. It's time to step up the efforts to make us a serious title challenger. That does not mean spending big, it just means having more flexibility on the wage structure and backing the manager with the right acquisitions. It's a very important summer.

The reality now involves the same factors that were banging the drum when Suarez did one.
Suarez, his brilliance and the effect that had on the players around him was not replaced, not even a suggestion of a replacement was implemented.
That failure continually haunts us.
Steven Gerrard is Suarez no. 2.
The drum gets louder.

The reality now involves the same factors that were banging the drum when Suarez did one.
Suarez, his brilliance and the effect that had on the players around him was not replaced, not even a suggestion of a replacement was implemented.
That failure continually haunts us.
Steven Gerrard is Suarez no. 2.
The drum gets louder.

Really!!!! Was you in a coma when we did everything to get Sanchez? Or did that just pass you by?

Really!!!! Was you in a coma when we did everything to get Sanchez? Or did that just pass you by?

Aaaah Sanchez, another ''near miss''.
Near misses are no F***ing good to anyone in soccer.

We actually spent a lot and in areas of the pitch we really needed reinforcements - fullbacks, upfront, defensive midfielder, etc - but in hindsight the level of those signings is what has been most disappointing.

Sorry for the late reply Diego.

Setting aside (for later maybe) my skepticism that "we really needed reinforcements" at full-back, centre-half or attacking midfield - I'm not sure that we really did spend a lot in the areas you mention ["fullbacks, upfront, defensive midfielder"].

* Full-backs: Moreno & Manquillo - say £14m combined?

* Up front: Balotelli & Lambert - £20m combined?

* Defensive midfielder [Can?]: - £9.3m?

We are looking at a total of £44m [max] for five players.  Relatively speaking - you'd be pushing it to describe that as "a lot", in my opinion, obviously. Now; getting back to where we really needed "reinforcements"... I'll split them into three - 'Definitely', 'Maybe' and 'Not really' - based on the fact that we had a finite budget and without the 'benefit' of hindsight.

Definitely = Up Front. Filling the gaping hole, left by Luis' departure, was (and should have been) the overriding objective. Versatile midfielder - yes; one that can (pardon the pun) defend and much more.

Maybe = Full-back(s): I'm saying "maybe" simply because we still had Johnson, Agger, Enrique and Wisdom on the books. All of which could have done a job if... and here's the rub... if there wasn't £14m left, in the kitty, after we signed quality "reinforcements" up front.
Attacking midfield: at a push I'll give us one but not two. Ibe could have ably coped in what was really a squad filler role.

Not really = Centre-half: The one area we had, more than adequate, cover for; Agger, Ilori, Wisdom and Coates all capable of standing in when required. Attacking midfield: see above.

Finally - not forgetting what you said about the "level of those players" Diego - I believe that this was down to 'us' trying to spread a finite resource, the transfer budget, (big and all as it was), too far and without proper targeting.

Sign your one or two quality players, it takes to address your greatest need, first... then worry about signing your maybes with what's left and if you've no money left, - as Brendan once said... "I’d rather use young players at the club and wait, than bring in squad players for the sake of it."

In my honest opinion - there was no rhyme, reason or logic applied to our [very big] spending spree last Summer. Who's to blame? Well we can make our own minds up but last Summer wasn't the first time it's happened. 

Sorry for the late reply Diego.

Setting aside (for later maybe) my skepticism that "we really needed reinforcements" at full-back, centre-half or attacking midfield - I'm not sure that we really did spend a lot in the areas you mention ["fullbacks, upfront, defensive midfielder"].

* Full-backs: Moreno & Manquillo - say £14m combined?

* Up front: Balotelli & Lambert - £20m combined?

* Defensive midfielder [Can?]: - £9.3m?

We are looking at a total of £44m [max] for five players.  Relatively speaking - you'd be pushing it to describe that as "a lot", in my opinion, obviously. Now; getting back to where we really needed "reinforcements"... I'll split them into three - 'Definitely', 'Maybe' and 'Not really' - based on the fact that we had a finite budget and without the 'benefit' of hindsight.

Definitely = Up Front. Filling the gaping hole, left by Luis' departure, was (and should have been) the overriding objective. Versatile midfielder - yes; one that can (pardon the pun) defend and much more.

Maybe = Full-back(s): I'm saying "maybe" simply because we still had Johnson, Agger, Enrique and Wisdom on the books. All of which could have done a job if... and here's the rub... if there wasn't £14m left, in the kitty, after we signed quality "reinforcements" up front.
Attacking midfield: at a push I'll give us one but not two. Ibe could have ably coped in what was really a squad filler role.

Not really = Centre-half: The one area we had, more than adequate, cover for; Agger, Ilori, Wisdom and Coates all capable of standing in when required. Attacking midfield: see above.

Finally - not forgetting what you said about the "level of those players" Diego - I believe that this was down to 'us' trying to spread a finite resource, the transfer budget, (big and all as it was), too far and without proper targeting.

Sign your one or two quality players, it takes to address your greatest need, first... then worry about signing your maybes with what's left and if you've no money left, - as Brendan once said... "I’d rather use young players at the club and wait, than bring in squad players for the sake of it."

In my honest opinion - there was no rhyme, reason or logic applied to our [very big] spending spree last Summer. Who's to blame? Well we can make our own minds up but last Summer wasn't the first time it's happened. 

Yeah you're absolutely right. We did not actually spend that much in the positions I mentioned (fullbacks, upfront, defensive midfielder) - those which I saw as our main priorities last summer anyway, which is not to say there were no other needs - as is clearly shown by the figures you posted. I think what I wanted to say was that we as a club actually spent a lot of money last summer, but given the final product of many of those signings it's hard to disagree that we didn't do a great job in the transfer market. Thankfully some are young so there's hope for the future - but we had an opportunity of building something special right now and we let that pass. It's not the end of the world but surely very disappointing. Definitely not the first time it happened too.

What I want to see here is at least the club giving a go. If we don't get our targets, I still want to know that we tried. I want Roger's saying "Yep, we've put a bid in and the balls in their court" not the 'I won't talk about other teams players' merry-go-round again this summer please.

What I want to see here is at least the club giving a go. If we don't get our targets, I still want to know that we tried. I want Roger's saying "Yep, we've put a bid in and the balls in their court" not the 'I won't talk about other teams players' merry-go-round again this summer please.

I think it's beyond that Mags.

If we want one of the top quality players that are available we have to get them.

No excuses.

I think it's beyond that Mags.

If we want one of the top quality players that are available we have to get them.

No excuses.

We'll probably "push as hard as we can", but get outbid by Spurs! We never seem to want these players bad enough!

We'll probably "push as hard as we can", but get outbid by Spurs! We never seem to want these players bad enough!

Yep.

It's why I want to see a bit of different thinking from them all mate.

Instead of 'trying' and then paying for a couple of players, probably costing the same but with a bit less wages, we need to make sure we get that player and I hope it's a striker.