Stick or Twist: Part 2

I started a Stick or Twist thread after we lost away to Utd. I did not leave the metaphorical field supporting the manager; I merely walked over to the dividing fence to see if others thought the grass could be greener. I did not want him fired I just questioned the manager, that is all.

Yet, here I am again, asking the Stick or Twist question for a second time, not because of the weekend poor result, but after the season as a whole.

This come about this morning after listening to The Anfield Wrap Podcast UNWRAPPED with Rob Guttmen. It was openly discussed, that with certain managers becoming available in the few weeks, should the club move to change him or stick with the manager. I have, for very much the most part, backed the manager and believe he should get next season to put things right.

But with this in mind, will the owners risk starting another season with Brendan at the helm, hoping we don’t have the bad start they have witnessed 2 out his 3 seasons. Because If they do give him the benefit of the doubt and he starts next season and then results are bad, they will sack him before Christmas. The problem then will be most if not all viable managerial targets will already have new contract with other clubs.

It also entirely feasible, that his failure in his 3 objections this season – CL knock out stages, Consolidate a top 4 place and a trophy – will trigger FSG to sack him now anyway. This is nowhere near ideal but it would mean we are handily placed if other top top managers become available.

Personally, I want him to have next season to put things right. With a little bit of luck with injuries and a couple of additions we could become and exciting team again.

Thoughts?

I believe if Klopp or De Boer, who LFC made contact with before xmas, want to be LFC manager then they will be. If they don't Rodgers will stay, I would be happy with either scenario. I believe Rodgers is still learning and to have him around for one more season may allow him to correct the wrongs of this season but it is a risk as this season has shown he has many failings although talented and we could be further back next season and too unattractive to top managers.

Give Brendan a 10 year deal unconditional contract and if he won't accept it, get Neil Warnock in cos that c&nt can manage

To me, in this era, Rafa is to Liverpool what Paisley was in the 70s/early 80s.

However I can't see Shamway ever signing him. Nor would I want to force Rafa to accept the sh*t they'd likely throw at him.

But aside from that, I really don't think BR is LFC manager level. Asst manager level... perhaps.
He understands the forward side of things (but with a Suarez, I think most managers would!). His setup on the defensive side, even the controlling midf side just seem poor. And I suspect he lacks that pull factor for star players (altho I have no doubt Shamway are throwing a spanner in the works too re wages).

I don't see the pt in sacking BR. Because he'd have been made a scapegoat.. like last time.
Lets face it, we won't be signing an Ancelotti or someone. Atleast not on the evidence of the last 4.5 yrs.

AmericanPlant, Rafa isn't anything like Bob Paisley, what era are we in exactly? There is no comparison to be made, it's a totally different echelon of genius that Bob had.
 
I'm not having a go really but it's a non starter.

Rafa would have an easier time with the new owners than the previous I reckon, he'd get more money and this is coming from someone who is not at all reassured by any fabricated promises the owners make.
But he'd surely have 4 or 5 times the funds each summer than he had.

Ok soz about not staying true to the topic JustMingle, I deffo want Brendan Rodgers here next season, after that I will know for sure. Wouldn't want to risk the upheaval and starting again without knowing for sure that he wasn't totally up to it.

The striker choices in terms of transfers in Balo and Rickie are a total flop and he never addressed that business after the departure of Suarez.
How much choice he had, is a hard thing to ever know, because he said he was definitely not signing Balotelli and signed him soon after?
WTF is that all about.

Want to see Brendan here next season.

If he goes then we have a few options to choose from.

Right now  twist.

Tonight I may well be stick.

Head is fu**ed.

No harm in the LFC representatives sounding out Klopp, if he says no Rodgers would never even know.

If Klopp agrees it's a no brainer for me, elite managers are not available on the market too often.

Right now  twist.

Tonight I may well be stick.

Head is fu**ed.

Bit like if you were holding 18 in your hand with 500 quid on it at the casino eh Si?

No harm in the LFC representatives sounding out Klopp, if he says no Rodgers would never even know.

If Klopp agrees it's a no brainer for me, elite managers are not available on the market too often.

Problem is mate is he would definitely find out.. Football is too small and everybody knows each other.

Agents talk.. Klopp would probably even let it out at some point.

My thought is if they have lost faith in Rodgers and want Klopp then go all out for it.. Don't go sneaking around behind Rodgers back because it shows no faith and will harm us in the short to medium term
No way he wouldn't find out

Bit like if you were holding 18 in your hand with 500 quid on it at the casino eh Si?

Something like that Jon.

The thing I'm struggling to shake is the chance that it'll all happen again.

By that I mean a sh*te first few months, followed by a real uplift and buy in from the players followed by the season tailing off and yet more disappointment in the cups.

If Klopp or someone with his experience and track record of doing it on a smaller budget wanted the job then I'd twist. I wouldn't say I'm desperate for Brendan to be given the boot, I'm just worried that the owners will be rash if we get off to a slow start next year and that is what would really set us back. Having to bring in an interim manager and all that etc.

Even with that 'risk' though, I wouldn't get rid of Brendan for an Eddie Howe type. That's just going backwards 3 years.

If Klopp or someone with his experience and track record of doing it on a smaller budget wanted the job then I'd twist. I wouldn't say I'm desperate for Brendan to be given the boot, I'm just worried that the owners will be rash if we get off to a slow start next year and that is what would really set us back. Having to bring in an interim manager and all that etc.

Even with that 'risk' though, I wouldn't get rid of Brendan for an Eddie Howe type. That's just going backwards 3 years.

If Brendan gets sacked I don't think it'll be rash. The reason we are even discussing it shows things have tailed off badly. The team and his tactics has been off for a big part of the season. If that carries in to next season I don't see any other option. That's the very tough choice for the owners and I'm glad I'm not making that decision when people like Rafa and Klopp are sitting there without a club next season.

Definitely agree about the Howe comparison. We don't need another up and comer. Brendan came in and built us up tactically for either himself or someone more "esteemed" to kick us on.

I'd stick with Brendan, but if we get a new man he'll have my backing

Heart is saying I want Br to stay and make it a success , my head is telling me that I dont think he's up to it , its really is 50/50 like some have said if he stays and its a poor start the pressure will build the moans louder the top managers will have been signed up then we will be further back than we are now , one thing for sure if they gamble on Brendan I dont believe they can sack him mid season .

Klopp is not the answer, Klopp has walked away from Dortmund after years of building a winning team to see it sell its start players.

I think the man is exhausted and would rather go to a club already challenging without the threat of selling star assets.

I have 2 candidates which I would love to see takeover if the possibility occurred but I don't think FSG would entertain either of them.

I'd stick with Rodgers.

Klopp is not the answer, Klopp has walked away from Dortmund after years of building a winning team to see it sell its start players.

I think the man is exhausted and would rather go to a club already challenging without the threat of selling star assets.

I have 2 candidates which I would love to see takeover if the possibility occurred but I don't think FSG would entertain either of them.

I'd stick with Rodgers.

Your right as long as Ayre is here Rafa won't even be considered.

Brendan is only a small part of the "problem" in my opinion.

If you put a couple of world class type players into our squad right now we are easily in top 4 and a shout from the title again very likely.

FSG has to either change the way they look at success (Trophies, Titles, not commercial revenue) or bring in someone to act as a DOF and likely a new coach to be hired by the DOF.

I'm not personally excited at the prospect of changing managers again, I can see the promise of bringing in someone like Klopp, but if he's going to be hamstrung in the same ways that Brendan is then what's the point?

The bottom line for me though is that something is wrong and it needs to be figured out and fixed because current results are not acceptable for this club and they shouldn't be sold to us as being acceptable in any way shape or form.

Any new manager (no matter who it is) would struggle to bring instant success under our circumstances.

Brendan also seems to be popular amongst his players. That's the feeling I get anyway. So sacking him might not be very clever.

The thought has never entered my mind of changing managers. 'In Brendan we trust' YNWA

Your right as long as Ayre is here Rafa won't even be considered.

There was talk of him leaving his role mid-season...

AmericanPlant, Rafa isn't anything like Bob Paisley, what era are we in exactly? There is no comparison to be made, it's a totally different echelon of genius that Bob had.
 
I'm not having a go really but it's a non starter.

Rafa would have an easier time with the new owners than the previous I reckon, he'd get more money and this is coming from someone who is not at all reassured by any fabricated promises the owners make.
But he'd surely have 4 or 5 times the funds each summer than he had.

Ok soz about not staying true to the topic JustMingle, I deffo want Brendan Rodgers here next season, after that I will know for sure. Wouldn't want to risk the upheaval and starting again without knowing for sure that he wasn't totally up to it.

The striker choices in terms of transfers in Balo and Rickie are a total flop and he never addressed that business after the departure of Suarez.
How much choice he had, is a hard thing to ever know, because he said he was definitely not signing Balotelli and signed him soon after?
WTF is that all about.

I think there will always be problems comparing different eras. Rafa had numerous rivals, and scum as owners. Bob built us into a Euro team, Rafa resurrected us.

Bob was a master over many yrs but ofcourse did have the odd blip. Rafa's 2 CL finals was incredible but he only came close to a domestic league once.

I really don't see how the new owners would have helped Rafa. Don't forget scumbags v1 "bought" Masch and Nando (ok on credit ofcourse). But Yanksters 2.0 never showed an interest in signing a genuinely top player. The nearest was Luis, ofcourse who turned out to be an "outlier" of massive proportions.

Either way, I can't see the new lot wanting to bring Rafa in. Which is a gigantic shame.

Any new manager (no matter who it is) would struggle to bring instant success under our circumstances.

Brendan also seems to be popular amongst his players. That's the feeling I get anyway. So sacking him might not be very clever.

The thought has never entered my mind of changing managers. 'In Brendan we trust' YNWA

At least with another manager we'll have a chance, with Brendan we'll continue to have small-team syndrome against top sides. This is what a great manager can do, inspiring players to go over their level, more so when you're playing for a club with our history. Brendan isn't capable of doing this, and we'll fool ourselves if we keep thinking he's the man to take us forward.

To me, in this era, Rafa is to Liverpool what Paisley was in the 70s/early 80s.

However I can't see Shamway ever signing him. Nor would I want to force Rafa to accept the sh*t they'd likely throw at him.

But aside from that, I really don't think BR is LFC manager level. Asst manager level... perhaps.
He understands the forward side of things (but with a Suarez, I think most managers would!). His setup on the defensive side, even the controlling midf side just seem poor. And I suspect he lacks that pull factor for star players (altho I have no doubt Shamway are throwing a spanner in the works too re wages).

I don't see the pt in sacking BR. Because he'd have been made a scapegoat.. like last time.
Lets face it, we won't be signing an Ancelotti or someone. Atleast not on the evidence of the last 4.5 yrs.

rafa is nothing like sir bob, the rest of your post is pretty sound

Brendan is only a small part of the "problem" in my opinion.

If you put a couple of world class type players into our squad right now we are easily in top 4 and a shout from the title again very likely.

FSG has to either change the way they look at success (Trophies, Titles, not commercial revenue) or bring in someone to act as a DOF and likely a new coach to be hired by the DOF.

I'm not personally excited at the prospect of changing managers again, I can see the promise of bringing in someone like Klopp, but if he's going to be hamstrung in the same ways that Brendan is then what's the point?

The bottom line for me though is that something is wrong and it needs to be figured out and fixed because current results are not acceptable for this club and they shouldn't be sold to us as being acceptable in any way shape or form.

You don't need world class players to get over Aston Villa.