Stick or Twist: Part 2

Personally I'd prefer a change in structure than a manager change

I'd insist on a DOF or similar, and then if Brendan refuses we would have an issue but I'd insist if I were fsg.. Then disband the current committee to how the DOF wants to structure it

It may well end up that way mate but FSG in their releases saying they are happy with the TC.
Just speculating here that with both sides leaking reports at the end of the season it might come down to well Mr Rodgers we are happy with the TC signings but your Lallana , Lovren and Lambert punts!!

Does anyone think its more likely that they will change both the structure and the manager than one or the other?

I think changing the structure signals they don't agree on Brendan's way as it was brought in as he wouldn't work with a DOF.

So if they think the structure needs changing by default it signals the manager hasn't made the best use of the system he wanted.

Does anyone think its more likely that they will change both the structure and the manager than one or the other?

I think changing the structure signals they don't agree on Brendan's way as it was brought in as he wouldn't work with a DOF.

So if they think the structure needs changing by default it signals the manager hasn't made the best use of the system he wanted.

That's what I was alluding to earlier mate.

Which does annoy me somewhat that people are so insistent FSG won't change. They did change to give Brendan what he wanted and thought he needed to succeed. Clearly isn't working.

DoF would probably take over Ayre's role and wouldn't need the opinion of half a dozen men to sign someone. On paper it's the perfect system.

That's what I was alluding to earlier mate.

Which does annoy me somewhat that people are so insistent FSG won't change. They did change to give Brendan what he wanted and thought he needed to succeed. Clearly isn't working.

DoF would probably take over Ayre's role and wouldn't need the opinion of half a dozen men to sign someone. On paper it's the perfect system.

this could be the middle ground both parties will accept...

TBF if Brendan doesnt take it, he'll be out, so he more than likely would accept a DoF now...

It may well end up that way mate but FSG in their releases saying they are happy with the TC.

I'm sure they won't want to be adding fuel to the media fire by admitting they dont like it or it isn't working right now.

I really do hope it's all being looked at though because take away the manager for a second I dont really want to be going into another summer or certainly future with Ian Ayre having so much control over the football side and this messy TC where they sign some and the manager signs some

That's just a mess of it's own making

That's what I was alluding to earlier mate.

Which does annoy me somewhat that people are so insistent FSG won't change. They did change to give Brendan what he wanted and thought he needed to succeed. Clearly isn't working.

DoF would probably take over Ayre's role and wouldn't need the opinion of half a dozen men to sign someone. On paper it's the perfect system.

There's also the talk, Tompkins and Evans, that Brendan got pretty much his own way last summer on transfers and the likes of Lallana and Lovren were very much 'his' signings.

I'm sure they won't want to be adding fuel to the media fire by admitting they dont like it or it isn't working right now.

I really do hope it's all being looked at though because take away the manager for a second I dont really want to be going into another summer or certainly future with Ian Ayre having so much control over the football side and this messy TC where they sign some and the manager signs some

That's just a mess of it's own making

I think many of us on here have said that snake should not be anywhere near the transfer committee with his credentials of having previously chaired the mighty Huddersfield Town!!

There's also the talk, Tompkins and Evans, that Brendan got pretty much his own way last summer on transfers and the likes of Lallan and Lovren were very much 'his' signings.

Yup but won't be next season.

There's also the talk, Tompkins and Evans, that Brendan got pretty much his own way last summer on transfers and the likes of Lallan and Lovren were very much 'his' signings.

That's what I thought when I made this post:

To all and above, i haven't said they are free of blame. I've been vocal enough saying FSG need to boot Ayre from the football side of the club and i would definitely rather have a DoF than a committee. Too many minds can muddle up the process.

However when all of them suggest Lovren, Lallana (i'm going to say Brendan holds the blame here because it was obvious these two were his first choice) Markovic, Moreno and Balotelli then something is very, very wrong.

Again - we spent a ton of money and received 75m from one sale alone while still having a net spend of 30m. That is a F**k load of money being given to these people and they have failed us, and they have also failed FSG, big time.

I'm not a fan of the committee and i'm not freeing FSG of blame here. But they have their plans and vision and they are throwing money at it. We cannot blame the money - we have to blame the men. FSG, Brendan and committee.

A lot of people are to blame here. And despite the discontent with the committee and Ayre, Brendan is equally accountable.

A DoF is my preferred way to move forward. If that means Brendan goes by his own volition or not then so be it and we move on to someone else.

As much as i have doubts over some of Brendan's capabilities i'd prefer to stick with him. He at least deserves a chance to rectify this Season. I wanted Kenny to have another Season to put things right, but also to allow a newly assembled Squad to blend. Nobody can truly know what would have happened had Kenny been given another Season, he may even have still been here.

I look back at the Season (i know it's not over yet) and i have seen a constant change in everything we do. When we start to pick up then an injury or suspension upsets our rhythm and we never seem to get into full flow. Markovic, Lallana, Lovren, Lambert, Balotelli, Moreno and Mignolet have all had disappointing Seasons but there is nothing to say that could all change next Season. He at least deserves a chance, as do the players, to prove this was a blip in the programme. Once the Season ends next year then i feel we can truly gauge our progression and where we go from there.

The last thing we need is another manager, that means players getting shipped out without even being given a chance, based on their first Season at the Club. Some of these aforementioned players may yet prove to be quality players. The biggest disappointment for me has been Lovren, he didn't just become a bad player overnight, something is very wrong there which leads me on to our defence.

Something i have regularly criticised Brendan for is his lack of defensive nous. When everyone was raving about the back three i was guilty of giggling to myself, when in fact we had gone to a back five as opposed to a back four. It was hardly a tactical master class.

A good transfer window will pull us out of this slump, that's the worry though. We haven't had a good window for a while.

That's what I thought when I made this post:

A lot of people are to blame here. And despite the discontent with the committee and Ayre, Brendan is equally accountable.

A DoF is my preferred way to move forward. If that means Brendan goes by his own volition or not then so be it and we move on to someone else.

One of the reasons why Rafa wanted full control of transfers as he had no one to help him sign players quick enough, Parry,Purslow & Ayres dragged their feet, if Rafa had a reliable DoF like David Dein we would not be in such a mess.

I say stick with him. He's young, tactically savvy, and espouses attacking football. I loved the football we were playing last season (much of it, remember, without Luis), fast, incisive, explosive... but he seems a bit naive in the market (albeit within the structure of a transfer committee, so presumably he can't take all the blame). He really needs to get the transfers right in the summer. We've got to hit the ground running come August. It all depends on whether FSG see him as a manager who, but for a bit of bad luck, might have won us a Premiership title and a Carling Cup by now, or whether he's a serial choker who doesn't yet have at it takes to propel his teams into that top echelon. I really think we're so close to the right formula. A new manager would mean another season or two of transition, wouldn't it?

I really don't mind if we stick for another season, but if we do sack him, I wouldn't be too upset over it.

I pity the man that replaces Brendan, I really do. I think the standard of our support has slipped so much with the Sky generation (not all them mind) that whoever comes in won't be given a fair shake of the dice.
Supporters these days will be looking instant success. Klopp is being seen as some sort of saviour, he's a Damm good manager, but what if he came in and didn't get us into the top 4? What if that was all he achieved? Fans would turn on him way to quickly imo.

There's no such thing as the perfect manager.

I pity the man that replaces Brendan, I really do. I think the standard of our support has slipped so much with the Sky generation (not all them mind) that whoever comes in won't be given a fair shake of the dice.
Supporters these days will be looking instant success. Klopp is being seen as some sort of saviour, he's a Damm good manager, but what if he came in and didn't get us into the top 4? What if that was all he achieved? Fans would turn on him way to quickly imo.

There's no such thing as the perfect manager.

Exactly.

We can't compete financially with the four clubs above us either so it doesn't matter who the manager is, they are very unlikely to bring instant success here.

The fascination with Klopp baffles me too. Yes he is a fine manager, Dortmund have been impressive over recent years and they play some great stuff but they have participated in a relegation battle for most of this season and in a league with only one decent team in it. Imagine if we had been bottom of our league (which is much more competitive than Bundesliga) for most of this season and the stick Brendan would get then! So has Klopp really achieved that much? I don't think he is as great as many people believe he is personally and I think he would struggle managing us having to compete with the four teams currently above us in the league. I think any manager would struggle. We are being unrealistic to suggest Klopp will come in and manage us to a league title in a season or two (which Brendan almost F***ing did by the way). It doesn't matter who the manager is, it's very unlikely that we will see instant success here in our circumstances, when will people realise that for fucks sake.

Rafa in my opinion achieved more with Valencia than Klopp has with Dortmund. At the time of Rafa's sacking I would say his support was divided 50-50 amongst fans. I think it's only now people appreciate what a brilliant manager he really was. Ranked #1 in Europe under him at one point, two European cup finals in 5-6 yeas for fucks sake. My point being Rafa wasn't good enough for 50% of our supporters, yet Rafa achieved more at Valencia than what Klopp did at Dortmund. If Klopp comes in the summer and we haven't won the league in 2-3 years time which is likely, we will have the same group of supporters calling for his head. The modern supporter is a joke.

The one thing both Rafa and Klopp have over Brendan is their pulling power. Players will want to play for them. Brendan doesn't have that pulling power yet but as a coach, id rate him just as highly as both those two. Brendan is still inexperienced too, still learning, he will only get better and better.

IF we had a fit Sturridge for the whole season we wouldn't be 5th now either. We have played 90% of the season without a striker. I cant be arsed with the whole 'well Brendan shouldn't have signed balotelli and he should have signed...' debate. We have a world class striker in our squad in Danny and had he been fit we would have 20 more goals right now and we would be sitting comfortably in the top 4. Losing both Luis and Sturridge has been a disaster for us this season but surely Brendan doesn't deserve the F***ing sack for it. Surely he has earned an opportunity based on last season to fix things.

I say it constantly on here, I have no doubt Brendan will take us places and for me he has another season at the very least. If we are no further on at this point next season then even though I still probably won't agree, I will understand more peoples opinions to sack him.

I'm a bit disappointed this thread even exists and we're genuinely discussing Brendans future. We are Liverpool and should be backing our own manager and players for fucks sake.

Yes we've had a difficult season but its fixable. There's light at the end of the tunnel. Its not all gloom and doom. I don't have the same horrible feeling of worry and concern for our future like I did with Roy for example.

Brendan deserves another crack. He deserves our support.

Brendan deserves another crack. He deserves our support.

great quote - close thread!!!

great quote - close thread!!!

Yeah do it

Then we can open

Stick or twist - Part 3

After the QPR game

 

Exactly.

We can't compete financially with the four clubs above us either so it doesn't matter who the manager is, they are very unlikely to bring instant success here.

The fascination with Klopp baffles me too. Yes he is a fine manager, Dortmund have been impressive over recent years and they play some great stuff but they have participated in a relegation battle for most of this season and in a league with only one decent team in it. Imagine if we had been bottom of our league (which is much more competitive than Bundesliga) for most of this season and the stick Brendan would get then! So has Klopp really achieved that much? I don't think he is as great as many people believe he is personally and I think he would struggle managing us having to compete with the four teams currently above us in the league. I think any manager would struggle. We are being unrealistic to suggest Klopp will come in and manage us to a league title in a season or two (which Brendan almost f**king did by the way). It doesn't matter who the manager is, it's very unlikely that we will see instant success here in our circumstances, when will people realise that for fucks sake.

Rafa in my opinion achieved more with Valencia than Klopp has with Dortmund. At the time of Rafa's sacking I would say his support was divided 50-50 amongst fans. I think it's only now people appreciate what a brilliant manager he really was. Ranked #1 in Europe under him at one point, two European cup finals in 5-6 yeas for fucks sake. My point being Rafa wasn't good enough for 50% of our supporters, yet Rafa achieved more at Valencia than what Klopp did at Dortmund. If Klopp comes in the summer and we haven't won the league in 2-3 years time which is likely, we will have the same group of supporters calling for his head. The modern supporter is a joke.

The one thing both Rafa and Klopp have over Brendan is their pulling power. Players will want to play for them. Brendan doesn't have that pulling power yet but as a coach, id rate him just as highly as both those two. Brendan is still inexperienced too, still learning, he will only get better and better.

IF we had a fit Sturridge for the whole season we wouldn't be 5th now either. We have played 90% of the season without a striker. I cant be arsed with the whole 'well Brendan shouldn't have signed balotelli and he should have signed...' debate. We have a world class striker in our squad in Danny and had he been fit we would have 20 more goals right now and we would be sitting comfortably in the top 4. Losing both Luis and Sturridge has been a disaster for us this season but surely Brendan doesn't deserve the f**king sack for it. Surely he has earned an opportunity based on last season to fix things.

I say it constantly on here, I have no doubt Brendan will take us places and for me he has another season at the very least. If we are no further on at this point next season then even though I still probably won't agree, I will understand more peoples opinions to sack him.

I'm a bit disappointed this thread even exists and we're genuinely discussing Brendans future. We are Liverpool and should be backing our own manager and players for fucks sake.

Yes we've had a difficult season but its fixable. There's light at the end of the tunnel. Its not all gloom and doom. I don't have the same horrible feeling of worry and concern for our future like I did with Roy for example.

Brendan deserves another crack. He deserves our support.

Agreed. And tbh. think the board have already decided he is getting at least another pre season and 1st half of next season.

We all know the studger thing is the main reason for us not being in the top 4 and challenging for the title.

Do we think we could have picked up at least another 10 points with a fully fit studger this season, easily I think. so we could have been challenging the chavs for the title, and been top 4 comfertably.

When Brendan first joined the club, I wished him luck, adding he would need it. Perhaps his luck is just beginning to run out. We will have to see, what happens between now and the end of the season.

Yeah do it

Then we can open

Stick or twist - Part 3

After the QPR game

 

I promise I wont... 

Would be interesting to see a poll in this thread. I'm curious to know how much support he has amongst us.

I'm praying we STICK.

If we sack Brendan and employ a new manager, regardless of who the F**k it is, we will have to give him time until he 'finds his team' and 'brings in his own players' which may take another 2 or 3 seasons. At the end of those 2-3 seasons we could still be trophy less and nowhere near winning the league and the same group of supporters will come out shouting sack again.

I can't be arsed with this never ending cycle, especially when (well in my opinion) we aren't very far away with Brendan.

Two semi finals this season, finishing second in the league last season = disappointing but we aren't a million miles away.

Get a F***ing decent forward or two and we will be boss again. Have no doubt about that at all.

Would be interesting to see a poll in this thread. I'm curious to know how much support he has amongst us.

Finally piqued my interest as well.  Poll added.

Any further posts in this thread will be merged into the existing thread discussing our manager
http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,43055.0.html

Yeah do it

Then we can open

Stick or twist - Part 3

After the QPR game

 

That'll be part 4 Jon.

You forgot about the game tonight.