Tony Barrett - Vulnerable Liverpool are mediocre - and they know it

When you have a Manager who's more concerned with giving Stevie a good send off at Stamford Bridge rather than winning the game what's that saying to the rest of the squad?  When players are saying "the result was irrelevant" after the CP game because it was Stevies Day, that's not a winning mentality.

To be honest I've found the whole Gerrard farewell tour tedious at times - I think it's a bit disrespectful to supporters paying full whack for games.  Fair enough playing against Palace but on form he simply hasn't deserved to play practically all the time he hasn't been injured or suspended.  He's got one of the worst records of any of our players this season in terms of results when he plays.

http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/stats/lfc-player-influence.html

To be honest I've found the whole Gerrard farewell tour tedious at times - I think it's a bit disrespectful to supporters paying full whack for games.  Fair enough playing against Palace but on form he simply hasn't deserved to play practically all the time he hasn't been injured or suspended.  He's got one of the worst records of any of our players this season in terms of results when he plays.

http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/stats/lfc-player-influence.html

I agree JD.  It's great that we're a sentimental bunch, shows we have a heart, but there's no room for sentiment in elite sport.  No wonder most of the players have seemed on their jollies the last few games, sentiment and the need to give Stevie a nice send off took over the need to win 

How did it go back in the 70's and 80's? I was a child so I never looked into all transfer links and what players could of came. Was it similar in some way back then? I know we broke records with signings at times but was it more of a case that we developed rather than bought ready made prodigies?

I disagree mate sorry.  Attitudes, good and bad, rub off on the people around you, look at the Suarez effect last season and look at the players that are still here.

When you have a Manager who's more concerned with giving Stevie a good send off at Stamford Bridge rather than winning the game what's that saying to the rest of the squad? When players are saying "the result was irrelevant" after the CP game because it was Stevies Day, that's not a winning mentality.

No wonder Stevie was steaming mad afterwards, he knows what it takes to be successful at this Club and turning an end of season game, where a win still gave us hope of CL qualification , into a glorified testimonial for him must have rankled him big time and rightly so.

All this crap with Raheem, how many of you have heard Brendan, or any of the so called media "experts", or any of our current or ex players when asked about the situation have said "he should stay because it's a great place to win trophies?"  Not f**king one of them, they all say "he should stay because it's a great place for him to develop!!"

Well whoop di f**king doo, we have a great coach who can develop young talent, when we should have a great coach that wins stuff.  We have a losers mentality all through the Club!  Weak Owners!  Weak Senior Management!  Weak players!  It filters down from the top until there's no point even trying.  Even us fans are beaten before a game kicks off, before the transfer window opens, before the season's started, before a new player kicks a ball.

Yesterday Rush was screaming for DiC, today I'm wanting some balls, some f**king leadership from somewhere within the Club so that I can be reassured that they want us to start winning again.

We've still got our passion Debs .

It's great that we're a sentimental bunch, shows we have a heart, but there's no room for sentiment in elite sport. 

Part of the reason we haven't won the title for a quarter of a century. Carragher or Gerrard would never have got those type of send-offs under Paisley, he simply wouldn't allow it. He would have identified their replacements long before they had left the club and then they would be quietly ushered out. Nowadays we have Carragher and Gerrard leaving and then deciding "right who do we get to replace them!!"

How did it go back in the 70's and 80's? I was a child so I never looked into all transfer links and what players could of came. Was it similar in some way back then? I know we broke records with signings at times but was it more of a case that we developed rather than bought ready made prodigies?

We bought players that we're good enough and ready-made for the first-team, then some that would spend a season or two in the reserves before breaking through depending on age. We did occasionally buy players we thought would be potential next best thing and all that, funny most of them ended up suffering long-term injuries or simply never made it, with the odd exception here and there.

Once things start spiralling downwards, the rot is very hard to stop, The problem is how low can the club go, very difficult times ahead tbh.

Part of the reason we haven't won the title for a quarter of a century. Carragher or Gerrard would never have got those type of send-offs under Paisley, he simply wouldn't allow it. He would have identified their replacements long before they had left the club and then they would be quietly ushered out. Nowadays we have Carragher and Gerrard leaving and then deciding "right who do we get to replace them!!"

Exactly right mate.

Part of the reason we haven't won the title for a quarter of a century. Carragher or Gerrard would never have got those type of send-offs under Paisley, he simply wouldn't allow it. He would have identified their replacements long before they had left the club and then they would be quietly ushered out. Nowadays we have Carragher and Gerrard leaving and then deciding "right who do we get to replace them!!"

We bought players that we're good enough and ready-made for the first-team, then some that would spend a season or two in the reserves before breaking through depending on age. We did occasionally buy players we thought would be potential next best thing and all that, funny most of them ended up suffering long-term injuries or simply never made it, with the odd exception here and there.

Rafa did try his best to replace both but obviously it cost him.

Cute from Carra on Sterling but forgets his own conduct during Benitez final seasons.

Question should be why did Parry and Moores F**k the Dubai lot round so much.

They got extra dosh on their shares to sell to the cowboys and pissed away a generation of supporters .

Part of the reason we haven't won the title for a quarter of a century. Carragher or Gerrard would never have got those type of send-offs under Paisley, he simply wouldn't allow it.

Or Shanks. Like what happened with Ian St John.

Some people like to pretend the 'Liverpool way' is all about loyalty.

It used to be about a ruthless loyalty to winning and players were there to serve the machine.

If Stevie G had gone to Chavs when he had the chance, he would have a bunch of medals right now on the mantlepiece. He decided to stay and was incredibly loyal to the club and the fans. Would people seriously deny him a lap round the pitch after nearly two decades of service?  The fans WANTED to show their appreciation.

And, GUARANTEE that if,  BR had 'clamped down' and he had not had such a sendoff, the same people would be berating BR et al for exactly that. He just can't do a F***ing thing right in some people's eyes.

We generally finish the season strong. SG's long goodbye has been a distraction, but results since the Utd game have NOT been good enough. He has to take a chunk of responsibility for that. Had we been at the races, we could still have pipped Manure. Big factor though is that Sterling's form has completely tanked - and as one of ONLY two or three guys that make ANYTHING F***ing happen in the final 3rd, that's had a big impact on the performances.

Would people seriously deny him a lap round the pitch after nearly two decades of service?

Who is saying they wanted to deny him a lap round the pitch?

I agree JD.  It's great that we're a sentimental bunch, shows we have a heart, but there's no room for sentiment in elite sport.  No wonder most of the players have seemed on their jollies the last few games, sentiment and the need to give Stevie a nice send off took over the need to win 

The issue is that its a double edged sword Deb...you and JD say that yet people scream as too why we did not offer him a contract earlier in the Summer and kept him here.

The guy is a legend but he is not all of a sudden going to turn 25 again and improve

So which is it  Brendan has been playing him when in fact he has performed poorly and should not of been or the club fu**ed up by not signing him early and giving him a long term contract with from what I understand he wanted guaranteed playing times.

Can't have both ways.

The issue is that its a double edged sword Deb...you and JD say that yet people scream as too why we did not offer him a contract earlier in the Summer and kept him here.

The guy is a legend but he is not all of a sudden going to turn 25 again and improve

So which is it  Brendan has been playing him when in fact he has performed poorly and should not of been or the club fu**ed up by not signing him early and giving him a long term contract with from what I understand he wanted guaranteed playing times.

Can't have both ways.

Someone on here, I can't remember who or when it was, posted that how Brendan dealt with Stevies decline and retirement could decide his future at the Club.  I'm guessing it was before he said he was leaving, it could even have been before we hit our unbelievable form of last season but anyway they recognised that it could cause problems if the Manager didn't show the "required" respect in phasing Stevie out of the team.

Ironically it's his determination to play him in every game possible, to the detriment of everything that could cost him his job.  The vast majority on here recognised very early this season, if not parts of last or even the one before that playing Stevie for 90 minutes of every game was not the way to go and also believed we should have been planning and playing for next season when he's not here.

I'm not saying he should never have played, that's just stupid but sentimentality on Brendans part has got in the way of winning and I think I know what most supporters would prefer.

Someone on here, I can't remember who or when it was, posted that how Brendan dealt with Stevies decline and retirement could decide his future at the Club.  I'm guessing it was before he said he was leaving, it could even have been before we hit our unbelievable form of last season but anyway they recognised that it could cause problems if the Manager didn't show the "required" respect in phasing Stevie out of the team.

Ironically it's his determination to play him in every game possible, to the detriment of everything that could cost him his job.  The vast majority on here recognised very early this season, if not parts of last or even the one before that playing Stevie for 90 minutes of every game was not the way to go and also believed we should have been planning and playing for next season when he's not here.

I'm not saying he should never have played, that's just stupid but sentimentality on Brendans part has got in the way of winning and I think I know what most supporters would prefer.

Good points as always Deb

Or Shanks. Like what happened with Ian St John.

Paisley learnt massively from that though, Barry Endean, Watford and all that. Up until then Shanks had shown a bit too much loyalty to the old guard. That soon changed. That's why I mentioned Paisley, he was after all on the coaching team and saw what happened and that only served to make us more successful.

Serious question:

Why were we never bought by the Russian mafioso or oil barrens in the mid-east?

What was so attractive about Citeh and Chelsea compared to us?

I've always wondered that mate, it's a real head scratcher.

Also the irony - the last time we actually replaced someone with someone better was when Comolli was DOF!!

Torres out, Suarez in

Can't have both ways.

I never said he deserved another contract. I don't think too many on here did. Maybe the media and twitter banged on about it. 

Also the irony - the last time we actually replaced someone with someone better was when Comolli was DOF!!

Even Carroll helped us win a semi final! Add up Balotelli Aspas Lambert Borini.

I never said he deserved another contract. I don't think too many on here did. Maybe the media and twitter banged on about it. 

Did not say you JD, the majority of the discussion the past month on the forum in regards to SG leaving for the Galaxy was how we as a club fu**ed up badly by not offering him a contract early so he would not go .....the reason we did not offer it early was because we were forcing him out in an effort to reduce wages.

Does not matter anymore.

I've always wondered that mate, it's a real head scratcher.

It is - as handy as City and Chelsea's infrastructure were in adding to their attractiveness, Liverpool FC is a marketing dream for any owner, so I would have thought that would offset any benefit that City and Chelsea had.

We can describe FSG flaws in many different ways but it means the same thing. Engaging a rookie manager that is far from ready for the job, through no fault of BR and transfer policies that becomes more bizarre by the day, one which is punting on young potentials and sells them when the time and price is right and no serious intentions of  buying talents. Transfer committee and policies becomes so loose that no one will take responsibility for the failed signings.
5 years is long enough, FSG is simply the architect of their own downfall. It would be better for them to cash out while they can.
I can't see it any other way how they can get out of the mess that they have created.