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      The Transfer Committee Thread

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      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #414: Oct 09, 2015 05:43:00 pm
      I was taken to task for even suggesting the JWH & Co appointed abomination would not continue it's fuckuppery under Klopp, that the manager would have the final word on signings. FSG apologists refuse to contemplate the owner's continued  ''mistakes''.
      It would of course be highly embarrassing for them to admit to each specific error following an obscure admission some time ago with the promise they would learn by their mistakes.
      We must hope this appointment is a landmark in their footie learning curve.


      100% agree Stuey.
      waltonl4
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #415: Oct 09, 2015 05:53:37 pm
      I was taken to task Luke for even suggesting the JWH & Co appointed abomination would not continue it's fuckuppery under Klopp, that the manager would have the final word on signings. FSG apologists refuse to contemplate the owner's continued  ''mistakes''.
      It would of course be highly embarrassing for them to admit to each specific error following an obscure admission some time ago with the promise they would learn by their mistakes.
      We must hope this appointment is a landmark in their footie learning curve.


      The simple truth is with this appointment they have acknowledged the last appointment was a mistake. Jürgen has said he has the first and the last word on buying and selling players it appears they have acknowledged two huge mistakes in one day.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #416: Oct 09, 2015 05:56:40 pm
      No forward planning and no balance in the squad.

      Certainly imo when you get to the stage were its become one signing for them one signing for me, planning, squad and even team balance go out the window.

      That's definitely the issue for me. All the talk about statistics driving away "football men", or the need for a strong "football man" and that sort of thing, is in my opinion over-emphasized to a great extent. What we need is a recruitment team that works well together, bringing about as much information and knowledge as possible so we can target players that make sense to our squad and our plans going forward. It should never be about identifying talent in a "vacuum" or, as you've said before, having nothing but an opportunistic approach in the transfer market.

      Ibrahimovic, for instance, is a world class talent but wasn't suitable to improve Barcelona. He was a mistake by the club. That's not because he's a bad player, but because he didn't fit their game plan. I think some of our signings have been victims of similar situations. You mentioned Markovic, and I think he's one. I think Firmino has struggled so far in large part due to this. And the same is valid for a few others.

      I'm with Si in saying that I think all our signings this summer are good players - some are very good indeed. But I wasn't happy by the end of the transfer window and this is because our squad looks disjointed and unbalanced. Add to that a manager apparently unsure which approach he wanted to take to games (possession football or hitting early long balls to Benteke?) and you have the makings of a tragedy.

      Let's hope our approach is different in this new era. I wouldn't mind Marco Reus for a start. ;)
      waltonl4
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #417: Oct 09, 2015 06:01:15 pm
      We have about 10 or 12 weeks before we can get the knives out again for the Committee. By then who will care who is coming in. I want to see what these new lads can do
      Diego LFC
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #418: Oct 09, 2015 06:25:20 pm
      The simple truth is with this appointment they have acknowledged the last appointment was a mistake. Jürgen has said he has the first and the last word on buying and selling players it appears they have acknowledged two huge mistakes in one day.

      I don't think having final say is enough to make things work. If you're not supplied by people you trust or work well together, having final say may not bring the best results either. By all accounts Brendan also had final say on transfers, but the power struggles and "constant friction" (if you believe the reports) may have made it quite dysfunctional.
      Swab
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #419: Oct 09, 2015 06:42:47 pm
      I don't think having final say is enough to make things work. If you're not supplied by people you trust or work well together, having final say may not bring the best results either. By all accounts Brendan also had final say on transfers, but the power struggles and "constant friction" (if you believe the reports) may have made it quite dysfunctional.

      The very simple truth that people are missing.

      It's not the structure or methodology that's the problem, it's the people on board.
      waltonl4
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #420: Oct 09, 2015 06:46:29 pm
      I don't think having final say is enough to make things work. If you're not supplied by people you trust or work well together, having final say may not bring the best results either. By all accounts Brendan also had final say on transfers, but the power struggles and "constant friction" (if you believe the reports) may have made it quite dysfunctional.

      The system didnt work they never do lets see how it can be improved and january will be a good time to review it.
      bigmick
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #421: Oct 09, 2015 06:49:29 pm
      Well whoever's on there now (the committee), Jürgen didn't seem to give a f*ck about it today when asked. Either any problems are 100% sorted out, Jürgen has been told a load of bollocks and is being naïve in believing it's true, or we all overestimated the importance of the thing in the first place.

      My guess is rather than a fault in the system, it was a breakdown between the people in/on it. Swapping the purchase of players either the committee wanted or Brendan wanted like Panini stickers (as in the Benteke/Firmino fiasco) was clearly a complete and utter nonsense. That is of course unless Firmino was actually a "Klopp" pick rather than a "committee" one. Stranger things have happened.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #422: Oct 09, 2015 06:56:00 pm
      The system didnt work they never do

      They do.
      Swab
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #423: Oct 09, 2015 06:57:03 pm
      Well whoever's on there now (the committee), Jürgen didn't seem to give a f*ck about it today when asked. Either any problems are 100% sorted out, Jürgen has been told a load of bollocks and is being naïve in believing it's true, or we all overestimated the importance of the thing in the first place.

      My guess is rather than a fault in the system, it was a breakdown between the people in/on it. Swapping the purchase of players either the committee wanted or Brendan wanted like Panini stickers (as in the Benteke/Firmino fiasco) was clearly a complete and utter nonsense. That is of course unless Firmino was actually a "Klopp" pick rather than a "committee" one. Stranger things have happened.

      Too much compromise is my guess.

      Klopp stated pretty clearly he was happy with the system, plus he's brought a couple of people in, so we shall see.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #424: Oct 09, 2015 07:15:32 pm
      One of the biggest problem with the transfer committee is dubbing it "The Transfer Committee" in the first place. The TC is a system that's not wholly dissimilar to what's being used on the continent (there are still some differences, of course), but it's only in England we've made such a big deal about it.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #425: Oct 09, 2015 07:17:31 pm
      One of the biggest problem with the transfer committee is dubbing it "The Transfer Committee" in the first place. The TC is a system that's not wholly dissimilar to what's being used on the continent (there are still some differences, of course), but it's only in England we've made such a big deal about it.

      Agree.

      And if we had a DoF and signed the exact same players we have done, which is a distinct possibility, I wonder who would get blamed then?
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #426: Oct 09, 2015 07:21:50 pm
      Agree.

      And if we had a DoF and signed the exact same players we have done, which is a distinct possibility, I wonder who would get blamed then?

      Comolli shouldered much of the blame last time, correctly and fairly in some cases, incorrectly and unfairly in others.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #427: Oct 09, 2015 07:25:33 pm
      I still find it interesting that people are saying the committee doesn't have enough football men on it yet the same people will broadly agree that the signings that are said to be 'committee' buys are the players they prefer.

      Anyone answer that one?
      waltonl4
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #428: Oct 09, 2015 07:29:58 pm
      I still find it interesting that people are saying the committee doesn't have enough football men on it yet the same people will broadly agree that the signings that are said to be 'committee' buys are the players they prefer.

      Anyone answer that one?

      Semantics the process did not work well just explain the process of buying mario Balotelli. we started with Allen and Borini so the signs were there early on. The loaning of Lazar is bizzare although he seemed to indicate he wanted this move out.
      Systems do  not work people do.
      Swab
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #429: Oct 09, 2015 07:31:18 pm
      I still find it interesting that people are saying the committee doesn't have enough football men on it yet the same people will broadly agree that the signings that are said to be 'committee' buys are the players they prefer.

      Anyone answer that one?

      None of what some are saying makes any sense to me.

      It doesn't really matter anyway.
      Klopp has agreed to work with the "committee" as it is (and always has been), and it's up to him to make the best of it.

      If it starts to go pear shaped, my guess is that "committee" members will get a tug before Klopp ever does, but as both Gordon and Ayre sit on it, with Gordon being the most important and (allegedly) having chased Klopp for a while, it will be a far more harmonious place than when BR demanded (allegedly) that we buy Ashley Williams.
      s@int
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #430: Oct 09, 2015 07:31:48 pm
      I still find it interesting that people are saying the committee doesn't have enough football men on it yet the same people will broadly agree that the signings that are said to be 'committee' buys are the players they prefer.

      Anyone answer that one?

      That Brendan was even worse in the transfer market than the TC just shows what a poor judge Brendan was not that the TC did a good job.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #431: Oct 09, 2015 07:34:40 pm
      Semantics the process did not work well just explain the process of buying mario Balotelli. we started with Allen and Borini so the signs were there early on. The loaning of Lazar is bizzare although he seemed to indicate he wanted this move out.
      Systems do  not work people do.

      Jesus. Where to start Walt.

      Firstly Allen and Borini were signed before the committee was in place. Brendan wanted both.

      Balotelli is an example of us not getting out first targets and having to settle for a lesser target. This is an example of our negotiations not working, not of the selection process not working.

      Systems down work people do?

      No idea what your trying to say here.
      srslfc
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #432: Oct 09, 2015 07:36:13 pm
      That Brendan was even worse in the transfer market than the TC just shows what a poor judge Brendan was not that the TC did a good job.

      But some people have said the non football men can't pick good players Saint yet the same people will laud Can, Sakho, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge etc etc as our best players.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #433: Oct 09, 2015 07:36:57 pm
      Brought across from the Jürgen thread:

      Fella, you've proven nothing.

      Like I said, I've given you direct quotes that actually back each other up.

      You've made reference to a few pages on a f**king fans forum as "proof", but the reality is that it isn't proof, it's football fans pissing and moaning and making sh*t up.

      BR stated it very clearly, now Klopp has come along and said exactly the same thing.


      You're wrong fella, just face up to it and move on for fucks sake, unless you can provide actual, credible proof that when he made that statement BR was lying.
      I don't want your latest fantasy.
      I don't want the musings of a f**king forum.
      I want actual proof in the same way I provided it to you.

      No you provided nothing at all, I gave you the only thing you're basing your entire argument on, that's hilarious and proves how predictable you are.

      As for my proof, the lists I provided are not my fantasy they are backed up by the most credible journalists that report on our club. They weren't invented by me they have been reported on and investigated the whole time Brendan was manager. Hence why it was a known fact Brendan played favourites with his choices rather than the committees and this is why I believe them, because there's substantiated proof.

      Hence why we spent £38m replacing Daniel Agger and still started the wrong bloke. That couldn't happen under a system where the manager had first and last say, again it's illogical to believe this unless you just want to remain in your fantasy world.

      I've given you the disconnects between what the manager wants and what the committee wants, the conflicts are so clear if you dispute them you truly are buried in your hole.

      As for direct quotes:

      Klopp admitted the problem, why would he acknowledge any problem? He suggested the matter had actually been talked about before. He is also bringing in 'good football men' who were present with him in Dortmund, people he can rely upon to give him the information he requires. That have given him reliable information in the past and the proof of this will be when we do indeed go after players that will suit a style of play, that will have been identified through forward thinking and progression in mind. Completely different from what we have had to endure under Brendan's time here. We can then listen to the reports and allow the evidence to stack up on whether Klopp is indeed getting what he demanded (This is called corroboration something your argument completely lacks)

      I'm going to guess that your mother once told you that Santa Claus existed, do you still believe that or does it indeed not stand up under scrutiny and acquired knowledge? Lesson to be learned Swab, don't believe everything you're told, believe what the evidence and numerous corroborating reports tells you, then you'll actually be able to form salient arguments rather than relying on the quotes of proven liars who've already had their words proven to be total and utter fabrications.
      s@int
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #434: Oct 09, 2015 07:56:19 pm
      But some people have said the non football men can't pick good players Saint yet the same people will laud Can, Sakho, Firmino, Coutinho, Sturridge etc etc as our best players.

      While the more balanced :) will also point to Alberto, Aspas, Markovic etc etc  and accept that of those players you mention only Coutinho and Sturridge are proven success's with the rest still having everything to prove.
      Swab
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #435: Oct 09, 2015 08:20:20 pm
      Brought across from the Jürgen thread:

      Dear god, this is so F***ing funny it's bordering on hysterical.

      We have 2 blokes, who have both said the same thing, in that they have the first and last words on transfers.
      Direct quotes = documented proof.

      The you say one of them is lying, but if that's the case, then both of them must be as they are working under the same system.

      So, in effect, you are now calling our old manager and our new manager liars, just so that you can stroke your ego on a F***ing discussion forum.

      2 quotes, both straight from the people concerned, saying exactly the same thing in a different way.

      I'm not even annoyed.
      I actually pity you right now for being so wedded to your agenda that you will swear black is white, and insult managers old and new, just so that you can think you're right.

      It's pure silliness.
      2 direct quotes, straight from 2 managers, and you are still trying to argue the toss, not to mention your internet silliness where you skate around the edges of the rules with personal remarks hoping to get enough of a reaction that you can report it.

      Pathetic.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The Transfer Committee Thread
      Reply #436: Oct 09, 2015 08:48:56 pm
      Direct quotes = documented proof.

      Sorry to break this illusion but quotes are not documented proof, they are actually just quotes. Proof requires evidence and corroboration, as I said do you believe your mother who told you there was a Santa Claus? This is a quote, but it isn't documented proof, that should be simply enough for you grasp the difference.

      The you say one of them is lying, but if that's the case, then both of them must be as they are working under the same system.

      See this is where you're struggling, because they say the same thing does not denote both are lying, one can indeed be telling the truth and the other be lying and they aren't actually working under the same system but indeed Klopp has brought his own men and and the system has indeed changed, hope this isn't too complex for you to follow, because it's actually relatively simple and proven above.

      2 quotes, both straight from the people concerned, saying exactly the same thing in a different way.

      Saying exactly the same thing in a different way isn't exactly the same thing. One said there was a problem and it is now not a problem, therefore the problem has been fixed. They actually said different things, you choose to hear them the same, you choose to believe them as documented proof, you choose to delude yourself, your problem and not mine.

      I actually pity you right now for being so wedded to your agenda that you will swear black is white, and insult managers old and new, just so that you can think you're right.

      I've proven I'm right with evidence, you've suggested you're right by providing "evidence" I provided with you, this evidence would not stand the burden of proof.

      2 direct quotes, straight from 2 managers, and you are still trying to argue the toss, not to mention your internet silliness where you skate around the edges of the rules with personal remarks hoping to get enough of a reaction that you can report it.

      Saying the same thing over and over and expecting it to prove anything.

      If I told you the sky was green would you believe me because I told you, or would you look up and confirm it for yourself with evidence.

      The evidence shows conclusively that you're wrong, that the two systems in place are completely different and will operate differently going forward.

      Facts Swab, not conjecture.

      Just in case you missed the point:

      Quotes are not documented proof without corroboration.

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