Our Moot Midfield

Attack: check, it goes without saying we need a proven goal getter.
Defence: check, the doubts still remain there...

Midfield: Arguably the most import block of a football team and one that seems to be overlooked a lot these days IMO. As much as we need quality in attack, and couple of beasts in defence, we need a mixture of these in midfield and for me we have too much of a homogeneous, bland variety in midfield.

I'm talking about the V8's of the engine room, that have the torque and power to run a midfield with the kind of passing and running that should encompass such an engine. Thus, I wouldn't include attacking mids like Coutinho to the problem, or solution to the engine room. I'm talking about orthodox central midfielders:

Lucas: Doubts whether he will be here next season or not, Rodgers doesn't seem to appreciate the DM (which in itself could result in an adverse knock on effect to our dodgy defense). The Brazilian hasn't had much luck either with injuries and has missed a fair chunk of our season. However, a player like Lucas who could be brought in to ping a ball about bit more and used as the same kind of reassurance to our dismal defense may tie midfield and defense together better. 

Then we have the culprits, the starters and misfits of last season:

Gerrard: He's left now but his last season for us was a poor one, even for him at his age - needs replacing still IMO.

Henderson: I think he's become a problem in our midfield and like Allen offers little and goes hiding way too much for my liking. What even happened to the Souness', Gerrard's, McMahon's of Liverpool's midfield? They seem to be a dying breed.These were key fundamental players that pulled no punches and could play a bit too - 'earning the right to play'. Today we have shrinking violets in midfield who fail to tie defense and attack together.

The addition of Milner is a good one. In the sense that if we had a good midfield, he'd be the upgrade on Jordan and would push him to the subs bench. He isn't the replacement for Gerrard to dovetail Henderson with though, IMO. They're similar midfielders (Henderson and Milner) but I think Milner is an upgrade on Henderson.

Can is another good prospect for midfield I believe, and is different to the energetic/safer passing ilk of Allen, Henderson and Milner even. He would compliment one of them (Milner) (and credit to Milner, I think he would offer more going forward than Allen or Henderson combined) in that he (Can) actually looks comfortable carrying/playing further forward for the midfield, and he gets stuck in.

If Brendan opts for 3 again in midfield he may not require an attacking central midfielder like Gerrard in his pomp because he can use Coutinho to play in between midfield and attack, or out wide slightly with Ibe or Markovic (who also needs to improve his game!).

The midfield doesn't have a wow factor about it but as it stands in a three man midfield I would have:

                                                  Lucas (or a replacement who is better to shield the defense and dictate the play)

                                      Milner                Can

Still doesn't look that spectacular but if you put Coutinho at the apex of that trio then you have a decent balance. We'd have a midfielder at the base to defend the Center halves, two engines (Can and Milner) running the heart of the midfield and the Brazilan to link attack.

Is anybody else not concerned with the much-of-a-muchness, with the likes of Allen, Henderson and Milner offer? The only different player there is Can who I think would make the ideal 'back and forth' Central midfielder.

Thoughts?

Yeah I agree with that as far as Hendo and Milner being similar and I believe Can needs to be in midfield, given a good run to see what he can do. I also don't think Hendo should be dropped. He has been boss when Stevie hasn't played and with the right midfielder with him he can once again prove to be the right man to captain Liverpool.

So there you have Milner-Can-Hendo pushing for starts in midfield. To me that's a problem. I could be wrong and they could work very well together but I believe for that to work we need to go back to 4 at the back or one of the 3 need to be dropped for a defensive midfielder.

It's clear we need a striker, a centre back and a defensive midfielder and a right back... plus another winger if Sterling leaves... my god we are in the sh!t

Yeah I agree with that as far as Hendo and Milner being similar and I believe Can needs to be in midfield, given a good run to see what he can do. I also don't think Hendo should be dropped. He has been boss when Stevie hasn't played and with the right midfielder with him he can once again prove to be the right man to captain Liverpool.

So there you have Milner-Can-Hendo pushing for starts in midfield. To me that's a problem. I could be wrong and they could work very well together but I believe for that to work we need to go back to 4 at the back or one of the 3 need to be dropped for a defensive midfielder.

It's clear we need a striker, a centre back and a defensive midfielder and a right back... plus another winger if Sterling leaves... my god we are in the sh!t

I would disagree with the bit about Henderson being "boss" when Stevie hasn't played mate; sure he's had the good game here and there but he doesn't step up on a consistent basis. He also tends to go missing in the bigger games - and for me carrying the vice-wannabe-captain like that is a no no.

Like yourself, Hendo-Milner-Can in midfield doesn't seem appealing, simply because Milner and Hendo are similar players and one of them isn't a defensive midfielder, which is what I think we need in there. If it's a trio in midfield, I'd happily swap Lucas for Henderson or a player of Lucas' ilk, to give us more balance.

And I do agree, that we should go with a back four again.

Henderson has become in my eyes anyway, the great myth. He's supposed to be the Duracell midfielder, but the lung busting runs are a thing of the past. His "passing range" has increased, but switching the play when he has loads of time on the ball looks pretty but doesn't impact on the game. He talks about increasing his goal to game ratio, but he scores rarely, misses regularly (can anybody still remember his woeful header to an open goal moments after Ivanovic had given Chelsea the lead in the cup semi?).

Good midfielders have an impact on the outcome of football matches. Even average midfielders have an impact on some football matches, for example Fabian Delph who won the other cup semi final for Villa. Henderson has become an effigy of a midfielder, there are flashes of something there but to me he looks like a bottle job. When I look at him he looks like the type who'd suddenly be in the loo when it kicked off with your mates in the pub, "sh!t, didn't hear a thing, sorry lads I'd have been right in there". As a captain I think he's a total non starter, where's the determination to drag us back into it when we're 1-0 down, to dig in and grind it out when we're 1-0 up?

It's always been the same at Liverpool, some players cop all the flack going for each and every mistake, some players dance between the raindrops while never getting wet. Henderson is very much in the second category, vastly overrated on what he usually produces IMHO. People have slagged off the Milner signing, when he arrives compare and contrast.

I get the feeling we'll be forced into using Henderson and Milner as the CM's in some kind of crazy weird formation. Lucas wont be fit enough to play most of the games, Allen wont be good enough, Can is still too young to expect so much from. Gonna be a loooooooooooooong season.

I get the feeling we'll be forced into using Henderson and Milner as the CM's in some kind of crazy weird formation. Lucas wont be fit enough to play most of the games, Allen wont be good enough, Can is still too young to expect so much from. Gonna be a loooooooooooooong season.

Henderson got us more assists than anyone else last season (I think) and I think he will be better without Stevie. I've also got confidence that Milner will get the ball to strikers and Coutinho.

We need a breaker in there though. That and somebody who has the ability to play in our system and score goals up top.

I too, agree with what you say about Henderson. Milner is a good signing in that he SHOULD at least push Henderson to the bench now. Milner offers everything Henderson was supposed to offer when he should have pushed on, plus more. He can score. He can create. He has the engine. Under-rated by a lot of our fans and seeing as the likes of Sterling had the audacity to turn his nose up at 100k and Jordan was given it (if I'm correct in that?), then Milner getting 150k is worth it IMO. Sorry couldn't be arsed to add further but on phone and takes ages...

Henderson got us more assists than anyone else last season (I think) and I think he will be better without Stevie. I've also got confidence that Milner will get the ball to strikers and Coutinho.

We need a breaker in there though. That and somebody who has the ability to play in our system and score goals up top.

Agreed - Hendo one of those players who my be destined to be under appreciated.

In the engine room of midfield he's first on my team sheet. We need someone to get beyond the strikers though.

Based on us playing a back 4, which is what I think we should be playing, I would like to see us typically going for a 4-2-3-1, with Milner and Hendo/Can as the 2CMs ( with Lallana, Coutinho and Markovic as the 3, assuming Sterling goes).

I dont see why Milner and Hendo cant play together in a formation like that. They are both good all rounders who can attack and defend. I like this in CMs - it means one can cover behind the other when they go forward, they can alternate joining in the attacks so its not a case of 1 player running himself ragged while the other just sits in front of the defence.

Can provides another promising looking option, who might push Hendo for a starting place. There are also some games, away games against certain physical sides, where I would start 4-3-3 with all 3 of those CMs on the pitch to win the physical battle. Milner, Hendo and Can would be one of the physically strongest midfields in the prem. If we go out with clear tactics to press and hustle ( which we didnt seem to have last season) then nobody should be pushing that midfield around. ( We could obviously go to 4-2-3-1 later on in those games if we needed a goal, once we'd worn the opposition down a bit physically.)

So basically, I wouldn't be in a rush to sign another CM. If a great player comes up at a good price, by all means go for it - so long as it doesnt leave us short on our transfer budget/wages for our genuinely weak areas.
The priority for me is those weak areas - up front first, then full backs, then possibly a goalie.

We desperately needed 2 midfield generals ala Case, Souness McMahon etc but what we have got now is miles away and got ran over against better teams. Is BR so blind not to see that or that he placed so much faith in the players due to sentiments?

our problem lies in the fact we need to score 2 goals per game whilst we are conceding more than 1 per game. That means we have always been under pressure in virtually every game. Concede 10 less and score 10 more and our season would have looked so different.
So for me before we spend any money we have to buy more goals and i think we should ignore Daniel and treat him as a major bonus if he gets fit and finds his form again.

I don't watch much football outside of England so can't really comment on these players but it seems from various sources that Brendans perfect/ideal midfield 3 would be the Croation midfield of Modric, Rakatic and Kovacic. 

I know there's loose rumours that we're trying to get Kovacic (I think he's going to be this summer Micky Ryan) but do we have anyone similar to these 3 and if not who are similar?

I don't watch much football outside of England so can't really comment on these players but it seems from various sources that Brendans perfect/ideal midfield 3 would be the Croation midfield of Modric, Rakatic and Kovacic. 

I know there's loose rumours that we're trying to get Kovacic (I think he's going to be this summer Micky Ryan) but do we have anyone similar to these 3 and if not who are similar?

If you look at the three players you mention what stands out is their technical ability on the ball, quick feet, able to take a pass from the back facing goal without having to pass it back.
Rakatic had been playing the DLPM role for Barca, but likes getting forward
Modric is a attacking midfielder but can drop deep.
Kovacic was originally being touted as a number 10 but is now taking up the Regista role at Inter.

So what we see with all three is mobility and flexibility to carry out all functions across midfield.
Milners signing as  someone competent in supporting attack and defending and the Kovacic links suggests which way Rodgers sees our midfield moving forward.

So if we land Kovacic I would see him as the DLPM along with Milner and one of Allen/Hendo.

A midfield full of energy able to press and break out in support of the attack.

If you look at the three players you mention what stands out is their technical ability on the ball, quick feet, able to take a pass from the back facing goal without having to pass it back.
Rakatic had been playing the DLPM role for Barca, but likes getting forward
Modric is a attacking midfielder but can drop deep.
Kovacic was originally being touted as a number 10 but is now taking up the Regista role at Inter.

So what we see with all three is mobility and flexibility to carry out all functions across midfield.
Milners signing as  someone competent in supporting attack and defending and the Kovacic links suggests which way Rodgers sees our midfield moving forward.

So if we land Kovacic I would see him as the DLPM along with Milner and one of Allen/Hendo.

A midfield full of energy able to press and break out in support of the attack.

That's how I see it too mate, Brendan likes multifunctional players and multifunctional roles within the starting 11.  I've seen it with the Academy teams especially the midfield 3, they all interchange with each other, no one does just one job and stays in position. 

I think that's why he's so conflicted with Lucas, he knows he's an exceptional player at what he does but he's too specialised, positionally, to play in a Brendan Rodgers team.

Can smack in the middle without question for me.

Henderson needs to watch out because I would rather have Milner take his place.

Can in front of back 4

and then Hendo and Milner in front of him....


changes for other games being Lucas for Can and Allen for either of the other 2...

simple really

Can had a couple of good runs last season when he took the ball from the defence and pulled the counter attack like an engine,he really has power and stamina,he is not a pushover in the midfield and we can use him well,we dint need Pjanic when Can can only get better.Our main concern is the defence that is hollow like a trapist cheese,maybe we could keep Moreno,and try our luck with Flanagan as a right back,but our central back need total replacements,two good strong defenders that will command the area and that will be confident in what they do.

Can had a couple of good runs last season when he took the ball from the defence and pulled the counter attack like an engine,he really has power and stamina,he is not a pushover in the midfield and we can use him well,we dint need Pjanic when Can can only get better.Our main concern is the defence that is hollow like a trapist cheese,maybe we could keep Moreno,and try our luck with Flanagan as a right back,but our central back need total replacements,two good strong defenders that will command the area and that will be confident in what they do.

Nothing wrong with the CB's, exc Lovren if they get some protection from midfield........ You can't expect the opposition walking through the midfield then blame the defence.

For me Henderson starts week in week out. On the odd occasion he has sat games out, you can clearly see he's missing. He may not be the fancy dan, easy on the eye midfielder but he does the donkey work. Also, when he wants to, his passing game is top notch. He's also the only player in the middle who scores goals for us. He may not get as many as he should, but he does.

Allen, well let's not go there. He should be sold.

Lucas, I don't think will be here. I also don't rate him as highly as others do. Offers very little going forward (but that's not his job I hear the forum whinge). And defensively, he's got progressively worse over the past twelve months.

Can, I was a massive fan of at the start of the year but after seeing him for a season, doubts have increasingly grown with him. At the start of the year, when he was played in the middle, he seemed to be flagging after about 20 minutes. Then being moved into the back, players were just breezing past him like he weren't there. If he's going to be in the middle, then he has to work on his stamina. And his maturity because he showed a bit of petulance at times last year as well, losing his cool far too easily.

Milner, I'll be honest I don't rate the lad. Never have. But, of course I'll reserve judgement on him until he's played in a Liverpool shirt. So I wouldn't want him in the side, judging by what I think of him now, but if he goes well in pre-season then he'll of earned his place in the side. I also believe he'll be played more out wide (especially if we stick with three at the back) than in the middle.

Rossiter, throw him in the side and stop stifling his development.

Nothing wrong with the CB's, exc Lovren if they get some protection from midfield........ You can't expect the opposition walking through the midfield then blame the defence.

Oh come on mate,in a game against Chelsea or Utd Toure and Lovren gave away two-three balls to the opponents feet without any pressure applyed an the created goal scoring chances for them....That was a discgrace... last season for Toures personal fault we lost two pionts when we were in a serious tittle chase....u cant say that defence does not need improvements...Lovren should be backup...some one pulled a joke with that one....

Oh come on mate,in a game against Chelsea or Utd Toure and Lovren gave away two-three balls to the opponents feet without any pressure applyed an the created goal scoring chances for them....That was a discgrace... last season for Toures personal fault we lost two pionts when we were in a serious tittle chase....u cant say that defence does not need improvements...Lovren should be backup...some one pulled a joke with that one....

Sakho and Skrtel are fine as first choice CB's with Lovren backing up, personally I would like to see llori back and given a chance.
Agree with you re Toure I have no idea why he was given a contract extension!

Oh come on mate,in a game against Chelsea or Utd Toure and Lovren gave away two-three balls to the opponents feet without any pressure applyed an the created goal scoring chances for them....That was a discgrace... last season for Toures personal fault we lost two pionts when we were in a serious tittle chase....u cant say that defence does not need improvements...Lovren should be backup...some one pulled a joke with that one....

Slightly off topic but West Ham want Lovern according to reports, so we may have use Illori or maybe buy again...

But I do reiterate, I dont think our midfield is a massive problem.

We were poor in both boxes last season, those are the problem areas

We desperately needed 2 midfield generals ala Case, Souness McMahon etc but what we have got now is miles away and got ran over against better teams. Is BR so blind not to see that or that he placed so much faith in the players due to sentiments?

It's no surprise that majority of pundits & fans when analysing or predicting games tend to focus more on the midfield. It's the key to controlling the opposition and usually the key to winning. We desperately need a stand out midfielder, a General, someone either physically and defensively imposing or a ball playing midfielder to dictate.

Nothing wrong with the CB's, exc Lovren if they get some protection from midfield........ You can't expect the opposition walking through the midfield then blame the defence.

I agree with this. If you go back to our strong run at the turn of the year, one of the key changes and reason why we became defensively solidified was because we played 2 flat midfielders. I don't think it mattered if we played 2 or 3 at the back, having 2 midfielders covering makes a huge difference. This is the key for me, not only for defensive, but also allows Coutinho to play.