What's the vision for LFC going forward?

It occurred to me that Liverpool the club stands for many things, going back many years.

Growing up, I always associated us with dominance, community, the highest standards of performance and player behaviour, keeping things in-house, keeping things simple but effective...  I could go on.

In my job (teacher) we think a lot about vision - about what ideals and aspirations we want for the future for our kids, ourselves and the community we serve, and how to achieve it.   

I know BR has talked of five-year plans, etc, and has targets e.g. top-four finish and trophy, and of course we all want world domination back tomorrow, but what's the VISION?  What do BR, the fans, the community want LFC to be, to stand for, in the coming years and decades?  I know there's obvious answers, but I'd been interested in any - I for one want to be proud of a club that's above all the tawdry sh*t that seems to go hand in hand with the modern game, like diving, agents, and Twitter...

Apparently something to do with not paying over inflated transfer fee's and wages or something along them lines.

Ah yes that vision thing........unfortunate ly it died when FSG found out about the relaxation of FFP rules!

I've said this time and time again but obviously people still believe we can challenge in the transfer market, but we are only moving forward by investing in youth, youth and more youth and producing our own quality professionals!! The negligence of the academy, and the lack of quality that has followed in recent times has been utterly shocking and disturbing for a club of Liverpool's status.

Academies are supposed to produce the backbone of teams that outwit the financially superior clubs. And whether we like it or not, there are at least four financially far superior clubs above us in England. Clubs can play all this 'moneyball' nonsense all they like but the fact remains this - clubs with players that are on lower wages and lower transfer fees do not finish ahead of those who spend more.

If you read Soccernomics, only the clubs who have inherited great youth systems can actively challenge those financially superior clubs. Dormund closed the gap on Bayern with some expert buys yes, but crucially, a great youth system was their springboard. Barca.... well they wouldn't have been successful without the academy overhaul that Michels and Cruyff undertook in the late 80s. Some years later, and as a result of those reforms, they have won 4 European Cups since, and given that they hadn't been needing to spend so much as a result of this, they have been able to fill the gaps in their squad accordingly with the few players they do need to buy. And, of course, Liverpool - even in recent years, the trophy success of Houllier and Benitez were centred around, yes you've guessed it, youth product. But since the emergence of those lads in the 90s, we've produced absolutely nothing. And look where it's got us today eh....

Let's get one thing straight here about a successful youth academy:

(A) They cost nothing in comparison, (B) they provide strength and depth to challenge on all fronts, (C) they are generally more loyal to the club they are playing for (before anyone asks - Sterling is NOT a product of our academy), and (D) they are well versed in the tactics and philosophy of the club having been taught such coaching methods from a very early age, meaning their adaption to the first team squad is like water off a ducks back.

Just think how much wasted millions have been spent by our club over the last number of years buying mere squad players? At the very least, youth players promoted from the Academy should be taking up those positions. If that had occurred, perhaps we would have been able to clump all the wasted millions on dud squad players and go that little bit extra for the player in the transfer market that would make all the difference?

I'm telling you this, if we get a good backbone of young talent in the squad, we will be able to spend more wisely on fewer but more quality players.

Then we will be able to progress. Some fans have to get out of this ridiculous deluded mindset that we can buy any world class player - I've seen Tevez name bandied around the lasst few days? Why the hell would he quit a Serie A winning side and Champions League finalist club for us? It's baffling.  We don't have the money to outsmart teams in the trasfer market, and we don't have the attraction either.

It's time we put all our efforts towards youth. It provides the concrete foundations upon which we can propel ourselves. Without it, we will constantly be treading water, pathetically thinking we can outmanouevre bigger clubs in the transfer market. But as ever, I'm sure the majority of fans won't give a sh*t about the youth academy, believing that a mere change in manager is going to overhaul everything. Get real - we aren't going nowhere until we can produce talented players ourselves.

That's what I'm thinking - we need a strategy that builds on our strengths and the academy certainly IS one.  For all the reasons you say, that's a winning vision, but it's long-term.  The downside of course is that that approach demands massive patience from fans, sponsors and owners, and that just isn't forthcoming in today's football world.  Thanks mate!

That's what I'm thinking - we need a strategy that builds on our strengths and the academy certainly IS one.  For all the reasons you say, that's a winning vision, but it's long-term.  The downside of course is that that approach demands massive patience from fans, sponsors and owners, and that just isn't forthcoming in today's football world.  Thanks mate!

No problem mate.

Let's face it - the past 6 seasons we have been failing badly - apart from the runners up position last season. I think fans would be less fuming to see 6th-7th place failures with young Academy lads taking the place in a team. There would, at the very least, be an understanding failure as opposed to blowing so much money with similar failures.

Putting it this way, imagine if our strategy was like this:

Emphasis on producing top academy talent >>> which gives us depth which we can pool all our funds towards a couple of quality players, leading to >>> strength and depth >>> Title winning team
OR
No academy talent meaning this leads to >>>  spreading all our funds towards merely decent players, which leads to >>> depth but no strength >>> abject league positions

And currently, the latter method is the club's strategy. Never in Liverpool's history have we ever succeeded without a good base of youth/local talent. Is it any wonder why we are so bad now?

Unfortunately you can't rely just on academy talent any more, not that you could before! But there is no denying it helps having home grown talent who will run through a brick wall for the club however without the likes of a Suarez et al around the club what incentive is there for the likes of a Sterling hanging around and learning their trade?

I'm being idealistic, I know, but at some point there needs to be a club-wide acknowledgement that there's a reason for having an academy.  Its to produce young players good enough to play for the first team at some stage.  Surely you either have it and use it, or you don't bother!  I saddened me to see us going after that young Charlton defender, Gomez.  Don't we have any decent CBs coming through our own academy?

Unfortunately you can't rely just on academy talent any more, not that you could before! But there is no denying it helps having home grown talent who will run through a brick wall for the club however without the likes of a Suarez et al around the club what incentive is there for the likes of a Sterling hanging around and learning their trade?

Not saying you ONLY have to rely on academies.

But they are one of the qualities we need to succeed. Anyone's deluding themselves if they think we can get by without it.

I'm being idealistic, I know, but at some point there needs to be a club-wide acknowledgement that there's a reason for having an academy.  Its to produce young players good enough to play for the first team at some stage.  Surely you either have it and use it, or you don't bother!  I saddened me to see us going after that young Charlton defender, Gomez.  Don't we have any decent CBs coming through our own academy?

This, all day long. I believe we have it, but I also believe we don't use it as efficiently as other teams. I do not believe these weaker teams have a better youth system than ours, I also do not believe our youngsters are worse off than the ones making their first step into professional football and making a name for themselves.

It really does sadden me deeply to to see us spend so much on u21 players to sit on our bench and train with the first team regularly when that spot should have gone to one of our own that we trained from a young age. Money wasted when it should be going to established players.

I've said this time and time again but obviously people still believe we can challenge in the transfer market, but we are only moving forward by investing in youth, youth and more youth and producing our own quality professionals!! The negligence of the academy, and the lack of quality that has followed in recent times has been utterly shocking and disturbing for a club of Liverpool's status.

Academies are supposed to produce the backbone of teams that outwit the financially superior clubs. And whether we like it or not, there are at least four financially far superior clubs above us in England. Clubs can play all this 'moneyball' nonsense all they like but the fact remains this - clubs with players that are on lower wages and lower transfer fees do not finish ahead of those who spend more.

If you read Soccernomics, only the clubs who have inherited great youth systems can actively challenge those financially superior clubs. Dormund closed the gap on Bayern with some expert buys yes, but crucially, a great youth system was their springboard. Barca.... well they wouldn't have been successful without the academy overhaul that Michels and Cruyff undertook in the late 80s. Some years later, and as a result of those reforms, they have won 4 European Cups since, and given that they hadn't been needing to spend so much as a result of this, they have been able to fill the gaps in their squad accordingly with the few players they do need to buy. And, of course, Liverpool - even in recent years, the trophy success of Houllier and Benitez were centred around, yes you've guessed it, youth product. But since the emergence of those lads in the 90s, we've produced absolutely nothing. And look where it's got us today eh....

Let's get one thing straight here about a successful youth academy:

(A) They cost nothing in comparison, (B) they provide strength and depth to challenge on all fronts, (C) they are generally more loyal to the club they are playing for (before anyone asks - I do not think Sterling is NOT a product of our academy), and (D) they are well versed in the tactics and philosophy of the club having been taught such coaching methods from a very early age, meaning their adaption to the first team squad is like water off a ducks back.

Just think how much wasted millions have been spent by our club over the last number of years buying mere squad players? At the very least, youth players promoted from the Academy should be taking up those positions. If that had occurred, perhaps we would have been able to clump all the wasted millions on dud squad players and go that little bit extra for the player in the transfer market that would make all the difference?

I'm telling you this, if we get a good backbone of young talent in the squad, we will be able to spend more wisely on fewer but more quality players.

Then we will be able to progress. Some fans have to get out of this ridiculous deluded mindset that we can buy any world class player - I've seen Tevez name bandied around the lasst few days? Why the hell would he quit a Serie A winning side and Champions League finalist club for us? It's baffling.  We don't have the money to outsmart teams in the trasfer market, and we don't have the attraction either.

It's time we put all our efforts towards youth. It provides the concrete foundations upon which we can propel ourselves. Without it, we will constantly be treading water, pathetically thinking we can outmanouevre bigger clubs in the transfer market. But as ever, I'm sure the majority of fans won't give a sh*t about the youth academy, believing that a mere change in manager is going to overhaul everything. Get real - we aren't going nowhere until we can produce talented players ourselves.

This all day. One of the reasons why i've been so pissed off with all the money spent on potential. Potential is the by product of the academy. The more youngsters that we buy from abroad with potential, the more youngsters at the Academy that get neglected.

There is no arguing with your point about academies having a direct link with sustained success at football clubs the world over. Carra and Neville touched on this at the end of last Season and they were right.

1 or 2 top quality players per Season and 2-3 youth products every 2 Seasons.

Some interesting and very good posts here, particularly regarding youth development, an area where we seem to have regressed in comparison to some of the talent we have produced.
Rafa had a plan in place, but it looks like that's been shot to sh*t now and we've started again under BR's vision, who wants the young players to be ready to come through at an earlier age.

It's interesting as well that son of a gun should bring up the book "Soccernomics" because there is a fascinating chapter about how managers (especially NEW managers) invariably waste money.
They take Lyon and Lacombe as the ideal model for success without spending huge amounts, and I think it's important to point out just how integral to their success Lacombe has been.
When Lyon change "managers" they are simply bringing in a new coach, and Lacombe deals with all player recruitment and "reinforces" the club style to new coaches coming in.

It's seemed to me for quite a while that this is the route FSG want to go down, but they have been somewhat clumsy about it, due to BR not wanting to work under a DoF. They thought he was their man to the extent that they were prepared to modify their plans, but I think that they are now moving in the direction they always wanted and we will see a DoF or similar (whatever name they give the role) at some point in the future, and maybe even this summer.
I have my doubts that the Lyon model can be as successful in the prem as it was (and is) in Ligue 1, but I think a modified version could work very well.
If I'm correct, we saw the first phase of this last summer with the acquisition of several young, highly rated players, but now is the time to add quality to the starting 11, which would be the second phase.

It occurred to me that Liverpool the club stands for many things, going back many years.

Growing up, I always associated us with dominance, community, the highest standards of performance and player behaviour, keeping things in-house, keeping things simple but effective...  I could go on.

In my job (teacher) we think a lot about vision - about what ideals and aspirations we want for the future for our kids, ourselves and the community we serve, and how to achieve it.   

I know BR has talked of five-year plans, etc, and has targets e.g. top-four finish and trophy, and of course we all want world domination back tomorrow, but what's the VISION?  What do BR, the fans, the community want LFC to be, to stand for, in the coming years and decades?  I know there's obvious answers, but I'd been interested in any - I for one want to be proud of a club that's above all the tawdry sh*t that seems to go hand in hand with the modern game, like diving, agents, and Twitter...

Wins trophies and wins the league in May!!

Simples!!

Wins trophies and wins the league in May by March!!

Simples!!

fixed that for ya HR 

Haha!  Win all those first seven away fixtures and we could have it almost sewn up by Christmas, as long as we can beat the Palaces and Bournemouths!

fixed that for ya HR 

Well had Liverbird Upon My Chest going through my head when I wrote "wins the league in May"

Obviously need to provide home grown talent from a youth policy. Although at the same time not let the wealthier clubs come along and snatch any talented players, that may make the grade of first team football, or else the club will be back to square one. I think we need a combination of home grown talent and a sprinkling of quality players to make the team successful again. Although with FSG 's wage policy, this could be a long way off.

I've said this time and time again but obviously people still believe we can challenge in the transfer market, but we are only moving forward by investing in youth, youth and more youth and producing our own quality professionals!! The negligence of the academy, and the lack of quality that has followed in recent times has been utterly shocking and disturbing for a club of Liverpool's status.

Academies are supposed to produce the backbone of teams that outwit the financially superior clubs. And whether we like it or not, there are at least four financially far superior clubs above us in England. Clubs can play all this 'moneyball' nonsense all they like but the fact remains this - clubs with players that are on lower wages and lower transfer fees do not finish ahead of those who spend more.

If you read Soccernomics, only the clubs who have inherited great youth systems can actively challenge those financially superior clubs. Dormund closed the gap on Bayern with some expert buys yes, but crucially, a great youth system was their springboard. Barca.... well they wouldn't have been successful without the academy overhaul that Michels and Cruyff undertook in the late 80s. Some years later, and as a result of those reforms, they have won 4 European Cups since, and given that they hadn't been needing to spend so much as a result of this, they have been able to fill the gaps in their squad accordingly with the few players they do need to buy. And, of course, Liverpool - even in recent years, the trophy success of Houllier and Benitez were centred around, yes you've guessed it, youth product. But since the emergence of those lads in the 90s, we've produced absolutely nothing. And look where it's got us today eh....

Let's get one thing straight here about a successful youth academy:

(A) They cost nothing in comparison, (B) they provide strength and depth to challenge on all fronts, (C) they are generally more loyal to the club they are playing for (before anyone asks - Sterling is NOT a product of our academy), and (D) they are well versed in the tactics and philosophy of the club having been taught such coaching methods from a very early age, meaning their adaption to the first team squad is like water off a ducks back.

Just think how much wasted millions have been spent by our club over the last number of years buying mere squad players? At the very least, youth players promoted from the Academy should be taking up those positions. If that had occurred, perhaps we would have been able to clump all the wasted millions on dud squad players and go that little bit extra for the player in the transfer market that would make all the difference?

I'm telling you this, if we get a good backbone of young talent in the squad, we will be able to spend more wisely on fewer but more quality players.

Then we will be able to progress. Some fans have to get out of this ridiculous deluded mindset that we can buy any world class player - I've seen Tevez name bandied around the lasst few days? Why the hell would he quit a Serie A winning side and Champions League finalist club for us? It's baffling.  We don't have the money to outsmart teams in the trasfer market, and we don't have the attraction either.

It's time we put all our efforts towards youth. It provides the concrete foundations upon which we can propel ourselves. Without it, we will constantly be treading water, pathetically thinking we can outmanouevre bigger clubs in the transfer market. But as ever, I'm sure the majority of fans won't give a sh*t about the youth academy, believing that a mere change in manager is going to overhaul everything. Get real - we aren't going nowhere until we can produce talented players ourselves.

Absolutely. All the talk of big name/marquee signing is futile if you don't have a youth system to compliment such privileges. Absolutely vital for a sustainable and successful future on the field and off it.

Problem is that the Vision keeps changing and there is no "caretaker" it has been 5 years of backtracking, changing minds, and utter confusion.

Chronological Order

1. We were supposed to have a DoF whereas no matter the manager we would have continuity. Yes we would buy young players and build the academy from within...but the style of play would be established and the DoF would ensure that we stayed true to it in both managerial and player acquisition.

2. Fire Roy, Bring in Comolli and Hire Kenny.   DC was never a true Director of Football; he perhaps would be a "super scout" and in 2 years time we went from a Rafa style team to a Roy team then to a Kenny Team all different styles and different player skill sets.

3. We hire BR but he will not work with a DoF but has his own Manifesto which FSG likes..at the same time we implement a "transfer committee" who finds the type of player that the manger is looking for...strangely however some acquisitions are totally opposite of what looks to be the managers style (ie..Balotelli)

The only way you have continuity at the club is to have a director of football that can take the vision and run it through the academy, reserves and first team no matter who the manager is.

We may have a "System" now but if Brendan leaves perhaps the new manager has a "New System" and the players we have might not fit...not only in the first team but also in the youth system.

We need a person in charge that is going to be here come hell or high water to implement and be accountable for everything that is happening.

Right now we have had multiple visions, multiple managers and multiple years of frustration.

It is up to the owners to make something happen, I don't seem rhyme nor reason in what we do with contracts, transfers or anything else; there is a complete and utter disconnect and for that I blame FSG.

Well had Liverbird Upon My Chest going through my head when I wrote "wins the league in May"

One of my favourites that mate .

Problem is that the Vision keeps changing and there is no "caretaker" it has been 5 years of backtracking, changing minds, and utter confusion.

Chronological Order

1. We were supposed to have a DoF whereas no matter the manager we would have continuity. Yes we would buy young players and build the academy from within...but the style of play would be established and the DoF would ensure that we stayed true to it in both managerial and player acquisition.

2. Fire Roy, Bring in Comolli and Hire Kenny.   DC was never a true Director of Football; he perhaps would be a "super scout" and in 2 years time we went from a Rafa style team to a Roy team then to a Kenny Team all different styles and different player skill sets.

3. We hire BR but he will not work with a DoF but has his own Manifesto which FSG likes..at the same time we implement a "transfer committee" who finds the type of player that the manger is looking for...strangely however some acquisitions are totally opposite of what looks to be the managers style (ie..Balotelli)

The only way you have continuity at the club is to have a director of football that can take the vision and run it through the academy, reserves and first team no matter who the manager is.

We may have a "System" now but if Brendan leaves perhaps the new manager has a "New System" and the players we have might not fit...not only in the first team but also in the youth system.

We need a person in charge that is going to be here come hell or high water to implement and be accountable for everything that is happening.

Right now we have had multiple visions, multiple managers and multiple years of frustration.

It is up to the owners to make something happen, I don't seem rhyme nor reason in what we do with contracts, transfers or anything else; there is a complete and utter disconnect and for that I blame FSG.

A director of football brings the stability that is needed - look at foreign clubs who have it, and there is none of the turmoil of an outgoing/incoming manager like we have in England.

I've said this time and time again but obviously people still believe we can challenge in the transfer market, but we are only moving forward by investing in youth, youth and more youth and producing our own quality professionals!! The negligence of the academy, and the lack of quality that has followed in recent times has been utterly shocking and disturbing for a club of Liverpool's status.

Academies are supposed to produce the backbone of teams that outwit the financially superior clubs. And whether we like it or not, there are at least four financially far superior clubs above us in England. Clubs can play all this 'moneyball' nonsense all they like but the fact remains this - clubs with players that are on lower wages and lower transfer fees do not finish ahead of those who spend more.

If you read Soccernomics, only the clubs who have inherited great youth systems can actively challenge those financially superior clubs. Dormund closed the gap on Bayern with some expert buys yes, but crucially, a great youth system was their springboard. Barca.... well they wouldn't have been successful without the academy overhaul that Michels and Cruyff undertook in the late 80s. Some years later, and as a result of those reforms, they have won 4 European Cups since, and given that they hadn't been needing to spend so much as a result of this, they have been able to fill the gaps in their squad accordingly with the few players they do need to buy. And, of course, Liverpool - even in recent years, the trophy success of Houllier and Benitez were centred around, yes you've guessed it, youth product. But since the emergence of those lads in the 90s, we've produced absolutely nothing. And look where it's got us today eh....

Let's get one thing straight here about a successful youth academy:

(A) They cost nothing in comparison, (B) they provide strength and depth to challenge on all fronts, (C) they are generally more loyal to the club they are playing for (before anyone asks - Sterling is NOT a product of our academy), and (D) they are well versed in the tactics and philosophy of the club having been taught such coaching methods from a very early age, meaning their adaption to the first team squad is like water off a ducks back.

Just think how much wasted millions have been spent by our club over the last number of years buying mere squad players? At the very least, youth players promoted from the Academy should be taking up those positions. If that had occurred, perhaps we would have been able to clump all the wasted millions on dud squad players and go that little bit extra for the player in the transfer market that would make all the difference?

I'm telling you this, if we get a good backbone of young talent in the squad, we will be able to spend more wisely on fewer but more quality players.

Then we will be able to progress. Some fans have to get out of this ridiculous deluded mindset that we can buy any world class player - I've seen Tevez name bandied around the lasst few days? Why the hell would he quit a Serie A winning side and Champions League finalist club for us? It's baffling.  We don't have the money to outsmart teams in the trasfer market, and we don't have the attraction either.

It's time we put all our efforts towards youth. It provides the concrete foundations upon which we can propel ourselves. Without it, we will constantly be treading water, pathetically thinking we can outmanouevre bigger clubs in the transfer market. But as ever, I'm sure the majority of fans won't give a sh*t about the youth academy, believing that a mere change in manager is going to overhaul everything. Get real - we aren't going nowhere until we can produce talented players ourselves.

That would bring more pride to our club , to be able to sit back with pride and say we brought that lad through the academy since knee high . And we didn't spunk 20 mil on potential when we have the resources in Kirkby to do it for a fraction of that . You know mate i wouldn't have minded so much in losing games with our own potential rather that see us losing with 20 mil potential from far off lands . It's mind boggling the crazy decisions that have been made for so long now .

Some interesting and very good posts here, particularly regarding youth development, an area where we seem to have regressed in comparison to some of the talent we have produced.
Rafa had a plan in place, but it looks like that's been shot to sh*t now and we've started again under BR's vision, who wants the young players to be ready to come through at an earlier age.

It's interesting as well that son of a gun should bring up the book "Soccernomics" because there is a fascinating chapter about how managers (especially NEW managers) invariably waste money.
They take Lyon and Lacombe as the ideal model for success without spending huge amounts, and I think it's important to point out just how integral to their success Lacombe has been.
When Lyon change "managers" they are simply bringing in a new coach, and Lacombe deals with all player recruitment and "reinforces" the club style to new coaches coming in.

It's seemed to me for quite a while that this is the route FSG want to go down, but they have been somewhat clumsy about it, due to BR not wanting to work under a DoF. They thought he was their man to the extent that they were prepared to modify their plans, but I think that they are now moving in the direction they always wanted and we will see a DoF or similar (whatever name they give the role) at some point in the future, and maybe even this summer.
I have my doubts that the Lyon model can be as successful in the prem as it was (and is) in Ligue 1, but I think a modified version could work very well.
If I'm correct, we saw the first phase of this last summer with the acquisition of several young, highly rated players, but now is the time to add quality to the starting 11, which would be the second phase.

This is something that i think we can all agree on , grow our own and nurture them , but to do this needs great vision and patience . The club needs to go back to Rafa's ideas on the academy and copper fasten those ideas and not sway in any way , and we will reap those benefits in a short while . No more wasting absolute millions on dross and every once in a while getting a little gem like Couts and Can .