What's the vision for LFC going forward?

Our visions the past 5 years

What's with all this vision sh*t anyway.

Just F***ing win!

The vision needs to be aligned with a philosophy of how Rodgers wants his teams to play.
He talks a lot about keeping possession and pressing the opposition into submission which we see glimpses of.
Then we have the rumours of Benteke being his preferred transfer target who moves and presses less than Balo!
 A defence with Skrtel and Migs who are sh*t scared of playing a high line.

Everything seems to be driven by a fear of not failing rather than sticking to a belief and philosophy which ultimately is a guarantee of failure.

This is something that i think we can all agree on , grow our own and nurture them , but to do this needs great vision and patience . The club needs to go back to Rafa's ideas on the academy and copper fasten those ideas and not sway in any way , and we will reap those benefits in a short while . No more wasting absolute millions on dross and every once in a while getting a little gem like Couts and Can .

Rafa had his system in place and it seemed to be doing well, then BR got a bee in his bonnet about the young players not being ready to step up to the first team soon enough and revamped it yet again.
I think one of the main problems is that the "vision" keeps changing, and that we lack continuity.
I kind of agree with BR in a way, because we are seeing lads age 20 and 21 who are not really ready for the step up, and at that age, they really should be ready to start playing a part if they are good enough.

The vision needs to be aligned with a philosophy of how Rodgers wants his teams to play.

I think one of the main problems is that the "vision" keeps changing, and that we lack continuity.

Mangers come and go, philosophy changes within the first team, but one thing that should always be constant should be our youth, and Rodgers stripping our last youth system in favour of his and nurturing our youth to his liking is wrong in my opinion. Our youth vision needs not be in aligned with the managers philosophy, but to the club's philosophy.

Rafa had his system in place and it seemed to be doing well, then BR got a bee in his bonnet about the young players not being ready to step up to the first team soon enough and revamped it yet again.
I kind of agree with BR in a way, because we are seeing lads age 20 and 21 who are not really ready for the step up, and at that age, they really should be ready to start playing a part if they are good enough.

I didn't think our youth setup and players when Rafa left was all that bad. I felt we were on the right track, a setup that was in tone with the club's philosophy.
As for not seeing our kids being ready at the age of 20-21, I don't particularly feel it's their fault when the manager doesn't embed them into the first team at a young age. Dalglish was great at doing that, something I hoped Rodgers would continue, but he hasn't to the extent of Dalglish

As for our current youth system, from what I've seen, it's evidently clear that Rodgers has our youth playing similar to the first team, why? Maybe because he feels it'd be easier for them to adapt to his system when they take the step up? If this is the case,  I see where he's coming from, but from an individual & development perspective as well as long term plan, I think this is wrong.

When I compare our youth from past to present, couple of significant difference I see is that our past youth players coached under Borrell were better technically and better ball players, but where as today, coached under Inglethorpe/Beale, we have become more direct, thus resulting a drop in the technical aspect .
With the plethora of talent we have in todays youth (potential that I believe can rival the big clubs), I do worry it could all go to waste with a lack of opportunities or our players becoming 1 dimensional and falling into that stereotype English player because of coaching methods

Rafa had his system in place and it seemed to be doing well, then BR got a bee in his bonnet about the young players not being ready to step up to the first team soon enough and revamped it yet again.
I think one of the main problems is that the "vision" keeps changing, and that we lack continuity.
I kind of agree with BR in a way, because we are seeing lads age 20 and 21 who are not really ready for the step up, and at that age, they really should be ready to start playing a part if they are good enough.

Rafa did more than Houllier and probably Roy Evans (who inherited a good youth system). But I feel Brendan's the right man and in all honesty, I'm more excited for his reforms than Rafa's setup. Primarily, Rafa got our youth scouting network up to ship shape, but in terms of the actual coaching, I feel Brendan's methods are more applicable and relevant for the youngsters.

If we are judging the youngest age groups within the Academy at Kirkby, then there is actually a lot of positivity regarding the way our U16s are progressing. A lot of the U21s haven't really got the skills that are ideal for Brendan because he only arrived three years ago and they were past a certain stage of development so I wouldn't be too concerned if many of them fall by the wayside (though I have high hopes for a good few). That said, a criticism of Brendan that PurpleMonkey touches upon above is that he would lose absolutely nothing to simply give these lads a try like Kenny did - it cannot be any worse than loan or transfer signing the likes of Moses, Alberto or Cissokho for example.

Thankfully, the current U16s have been playing with Brendan's methods for a good few years now, and if we regard a young mind like a sponge in that it absorbs a lot more information, then naturally they should be better than the current batch of U21s when they get to that level - simply because they were at a younger age when Rodgers arrived with his methods and have maximised coaching time. And with Pep Linjders - by all accounts - doing a fantastic job with the U16s, then there is a cause for optimism that those lads there will be getting secure contracts with Liverpool by time they get to senior level, and hopefully be able to provide us with quality depth as a result.

Whatever you think of Rodgers as the senior manager, I honestly think with his experience of being a youth coach and his innovative coaching expertise - in addition to hiring experts like Pep Lijnders - that we have a youth coaching structure that must be kept in place with or without Rodgers.

Hypothetically, say if Rodgers has a bad start and is sacked, I feel it is imperative for the new manager to sustain this current youth setup. Again, perhaps the only way to ensure this is by hiring a DOF who oversees the broad concept of the club and sustaining a youth policy is something that a Director of Football can do, thereby enhancing more stability. If sustainability to this structure can occur, then whatever happens with Rodgers next season, we may still be able to look back on his time at Liverpool and actually see a lasting legacy there regarding youth. Because of the lack of attention towards managerial imput towards youth systems, we as football fans are primed to believe that only the results that matter with the manager is what counts, but take away all that fuss and bluster of the English media, and we would do well as fans to recognise that managerial regard for youth systems is an imperative to any manager in any club. And far too often, it is easy to neglect the vital importance of this issue.

Mangers come and go, philosophy changes within the first team, but one thing that should always be constant should be our youth, and Rodgers stripping our last youth system in favour of his and nurturing our youth to his liking is wrong in my opinion. Our youth vision needs not be in aligned with the managers philosophy, but to the club's philosophy.

I didn't think our youth setup and players when Rafa left was all that bad. I felt we were on the right track, a setup that was in tone with the club's philosophy.
As for not seeing our kids being ready at the age of 20-21, I don't particularly feel it's their fault when the manager doesn't embed them into the first team at a young age. Dalglish was great at doing that, something I hoped Rodgers would continue, but he hasn't to the extent of Dalglish

As for our current youth system, from what I've seen, it's evidently clear that Rodgers has our youth playing similar to the first team, why? Maybe because he feels it'd be easier for them to adapt to his system when they take the step up? If this is the case,  I see where he's coming from, but from an individual & development perspective as well as long term plan, I think this is wrong.

When I compare our youth from past to present, couple of significant difference I see is that our past youth players coached under Borrell were better technically and better ball players, but where as today, coached under Inglethorpe/Beale, we have become more direct, thus resulting a drop in the technical aspect .
With the plethora of talent we have in todays youth (potential that I believe can rival the big clubs), I do worry it could all go to waste with a lack of opportunities or our players becoming 1 dimensional and falling into that stereotype English player because of coaching methods

I really don't believe that is the case PM. From what I've seen there is a significant emphasis on technical skills and ball retention and control. Honestly, local folk who have watched the U16s (their matches aren't broadcast) are highly impressed with the way they are playing with the ball.

I really don't believe that is the case PM. From what I've seen there is a significant emphasis on technical skills and ball retention and control. Honestly, local folk who have watched the U16s (their matches aren't broadcast) are highly impressed with the way they are playing with the ball.

My irk is more with the U21's, the players from 18+. Not really seen the U16's, so I have no right to comment on them :p

Watching the Portuguese team yesterday, even though they are slightly older and some are more experienced, I feel our U21 team is just as talented in terms of ability, but we seem to be lagging behind when we reach that age group of 18-21. Players like, Wilson, Ojo, Canos, Kent etc with an abundance of skill and potential, but do not seem as comfortable on the ball as they should in my opinion.

Correct me If I'm wrong, but from what I read, the likes of Ajax, Barca & Arsenal play keep the same philosophy throughout their youth setup, from u10's going right through to their u21's?
You may be right in our players u16 being coached significantly on technical skills and ball retention and control, but from what I've seen upwards, I just feel it's totally different under Inglethorpe/Beale.

My irk is more with the U21's, the players from 18+. Not really seen the U16's, so I have no right to comment on them :p

Watching the Portuguese team yesterday, even though they are slightly older and some are more experienced, I feel our U21 team is just as talented in terms of ability, but we seem to be lagging behind when we reach that age group of 18-21. Players like, Wilson, Ojo, Canos, Kent etc with an abundance of skill and potential, but do not seem as comfortable on the ball as they should in my opinion.

Correct me If I'm wrong, but from what I read, the likes of Ajax, Barca & Arsenal play keep the same philosophy throughout their youth setup, from u10's going right through to their u21's?
You may be right in our players u16 being coached significantly on technical skills and ball retention and control, but from what I've seen upwards, I just feel it's totally different under Inglethorpe/Beale.

To be honest mate I haven't watched the U21s all that often - having only seen them play the odd game that is shown on BT Sport at Anfield, but I thought we were decent and that the philosophy of retaining the ball on the ground, passing and possession was there to see. It's not Barca I'll admit but it wasn't any worse than say Man Utd U21 and other U21 teams I've watched on the same channel. But I am fairly certain it is Rodeger's plan to let them play the exact same way as the senior team. Here's an article about Pep Linjders that is quite insightful.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/03/liverpool-academy-focus-the-methods-of-pepijn-lijnders/

Mangers come and go, philosophy changes within the first team, but one thing that should always be constant should be our youth, and Rodgers stripping our last youth system in favour of his and nurturing our youth to his liking is wrong in my opinion. Our youth vision needs not be in aligned with the managers philosophy, but to the club's philosophy.

I fully agree and without trying to sound like a broken record, I know I've mentioned this once or twice, it's why I'm an advocate of a DoF to run the football club from the football side of course.

He will shape and implement the vision forn the club moving forward and any Head Coach works to, and alongside, that.

Some very well thought out and intelligent post here by TheleftpegofRayKennedy, Son Of A Gun. PurpleMonkey and hardcoresoldier I could read post like this all day long. Speaks to a lot of my concerns…. Not sure that my two-penny worth will do justice to analysis given by the aforementioned… Great work Lads

The vision of the club should be to win and only win. It should be drilled from the under 6s putting on their first bibs to the first team that winning is what Liverpool Football Club is all about. We should be breeding winners and buying winners. Real Madrid may not be the most likable of football clubs but F**k me when a player at any level puts on their shirt they know what it means and they know what's expected of them and they know they'll be disposed of if they aren't up to it. As great as Shanks' beliefs were the only reason they have any weight is because the man brought us success.

The Boot Room is just a footnote in history if we were meandering in 5th to 8th place, The Holy Trinity is nothing more than a clever quotable statement if we were meandering in 5th to 8th place, Bill wouldn't have made the people smile as much if we were in 5th to 8th place. He was a winner first and foremost that's the example that should be followed.

Our owners aren't winners they're focussed on balancing the books and that's fine if they have people are winners around them but they don't. Our manager should be sitting in an office drawing up minimum targets that should be reached. We should at least get a 60% points return which would give us 68 points we should be keeping at least 15 clean sheets. We should be scoring a minimum 60 goals and then our aim should be to reach those targets as quickly as possible (around the 30th matchday would be nice) and then build on it when we get there.

Ings should be saying to himself that he has to hit at least 15 goals in the league next season and when he hits 15 his next aim should be 20. Mignolet should be on the phone to the rest of the lads telling them he'll keep at least 15 shutouts they should focus on covering him and putting the ball in the other onion bag.

That's my vision for Liverpool anyway. Setting a bar and then raising it once we've reached it. All of the philosophies and other nonsense will take care of itself we should just be winning.

I think we're pretty much in agreement on the Academy, then! 

Men, or rather a man, with vision and the strength of character to follow it through relentlessly, that's what we need.  In other words, a DoF.  Must admit I hadn't really seen a DoF as that important as long as we had the right manager, but I'm swayed after this.  Some terrific posts, lads.

How about what LFC stands for?
I mean back in the 70's and 80's we were like gods among men.  We were more than a club, we were a living legend, a secret formula, above the level of every other club in terms of quality, confidence and passion.  We also had that Liverpool spirit, the heart in the community, that fight, that love, that 'sod the rest of you' attitude. 

Is it because we no longer have many scousers in the staff (in general) that that seems to have been lost?  In becoming a cosmopolitan, modern-era, world-brand commercial entity with foreign players, staff and owners, has LFC lost it's soul?  I think the temptingly simple answer might be 'yes'!

Anyway, perhaps this too comes back to the Academy question.  I know they're not just kids from Huyton and Bootle any more, but is this the way to reconnect with the/a 'Liverpool Way'?