Changes

We all know the issues we've faced and the problems we've had in the transfer market with drawn out negotiations etc which also have a detrimental effect on the team at the start of the season.
We've also heard BR complain (maybe that's too strong a word) about "training time" and it occurred to me that perhaps he meant training time in pre-season as well as during the season.
So far, this transfer window has been something I can't remember seeing before, because we are completing major signings before the window is open.
It's not just under FSG, we have been seeing this for years, and Parry was notorious for being very slow.
When we are slow, it also has a very negative impact on the integration of new players.

I've been having a think and a look back at conversations over the last week or so, and it appears to me that major changes are taking place behind the scenes.
A lot of this is going to be supposition and I am going to assume a couple of things as well, so bear with me, then tell me what you think.

Transfer "Committee
We know for a certainty that Ayre wasn't initially involved in negotiations in Chile until the final stages.
Rumour has it that Gordon and Fallows conducted the negotiations and did the deal.
If this was indeed the case, it raises 2 options for me.
The first option is that we are doing so much business that we have more than one negotiating team working. One in Europe and one in Chile.
The second option is that Ayre has been gently eased to one side (trying to be charitable here), and that Gordon (FSG board member, 2nd biggest FSG shareholder and FSG President) has taken over some or all of the negotiating to get things done quickly, making Ayre little more than a rubber stamp as LFC CEO.

Assuming the above is correct, and admittedly it's a bit of a leap based only on a rumour, there has been a significant change in our recruitment process.
If Gordon has stepped forwards with Fallows as an advisor, it means that there is a lot more leeway in the negotiating process simply because Gordon is so senior at FSG.
Gordon is (apparently) a follower of football and has been for years.
He increased his stake in FSG a couple of years ago or so, and this was roughly the time he was appointed to our board.

Again, I'm making some pretty big assumptions here, but it might be that JWH and Gordon have split their roles.
JWH has responsibility for the Red Sox, and Gordon has responsibility for Liverpool.
It may even be that we see Gordon become an even bigger FSG stakeholder at some point in the future and effectively become owner of Liverpool FC, albeit under the FSG umbrella.


Pre Season and integration
The effect on the team of getting our business done so early is that of much more training time in pre-season.
Yes, we'll be going on tours, but players still train more or less normally during tours, with the obvious exception of extra rest days due to travel.
However training is not always physical work, and during the extra rest days, they will be doing more "classroom" work, with the videos, chalkboards, tactics etc
We all know that integrating new players into a team is difficult and often a slow process, but any extra time that can be spent integrating them with more training time pre-season can only be beneficial.
In every single season under BR we have seen a slow start, and I believe that being slow to complete deals, and thus leading to less time to integrate new players has been a factor in this, as well as fitness levels at the start of a season.
Even when we placed second, we started the season by scraping a few games and didn't really hit our stride and start battering teams until we were approaching mid season, of course we then caught fire.
If getting our business done early leads to even a small percentage rise in performance in the early part of the season, we'll be in good shape.

As I said before, I'm basing this on rumours and supposition, but it seems logical to me.

Time will tell, I guess if serious changes in people's roles behind the scenes have been effected, we'll find out sooner or later.

But even if the only change for the time being is the increased speed of our transfer dealings, then it is, in itself, a huge change for the better!

Off-topic: anyone else got that David Bowie song stuck in their head now? Ch-ch-ch changes!

Time will tell, I guess if serious changes in people's roles behind the scenes have been effected, we'll find out sooner or later.

But even if the only change for the time being is the increased speed of our transfer dealings, then it is, in itself, a huge change for the better!

Off-topic: anyone else got that David Bowie song stuck in their head now? Ch-ch-ch changes!

Had the album playing when I thought of writing the thread  (Hunky Dory, David Bowie)

I agree that our transfer dealings have so far been a breath of fresh air compared to the past.

There's still a lot of work to do of course, but if the bulk of new players are in already (and that appears to be the case to me) it is a massive improvement.

Had the album playing when I thought of writing the thread  (Hunky Dory, David Bowie)

I agree that our transfer dealings have so far been a breath of fresh air compared to the past.

There's still a lot of work to do of course, but if the bulk of new players are in already (and that appears to be the case to me) it is a massive improvement.

I was thinking more of the 2Pac version myself, but great topic and hopefully one that won't get infected with sh*t. Haven't got time at the moment but will definitely pop back in with a post once i've got time as this is a subject i've passed over many times lately in other threads.

Hopefully AZ Patriot, FLRed and (is it lfcacrossthewater?) the like will grace this thread as they seem to have a great knowledge of how FSG conduct themselves in a sporting context as well as a business context.

Excellent topic Swab and it gets to the heart of how we should judge the owners or indeed anyone at the club.


How are the owners planning to be successful here?


Because, make no mistake, they are working to a plan. That is how they managed to achieve so much success in their lives - by taking a series of calculated and intelligent risks to grow their business - not by inheriting oil or by rising to the top of criminal gangs.


The problem is that, by all available evidence, it is incredibly difficult to overlook the fact that brute power, in the form of money, is the key determinant of success in the professional game. Footballing knowledge comes a distant second. That's why the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City have supplanted us, Arsenal and even United (to a lesser extent since they are relatively rich) in winning honours. Overcoming four teams who are ahead of us in terms of finance, cache and setup is almost impossible.


Almost but not quite - for the owners are relying on a more powerful force - the power of evolution.


If we look at the history of their decision-making so far we can see that there is a recurrent pattern of behaviour. They believe in enacting a plan with boldness, allowing it to play out then changing the parts that don't work. That is why they have upgraded the manager on each occasion. As Swab points out that is why we have changed from a DOF to Transfer Committee to Gordon getting involved in deals.


Look at our underlying strategy with the manager. We have chosen a man whose main characteristic is his tactical flexibility. this has completely thrown a number if his critics who continue to insist, even now, that he is "stubborn" with his play. In reality, that accusation could hardly be further from the truth. We have ended up playing players in huge numbers of different positions and formations - sometimes three or four times within a game. At a time when he was under a huge amount of pressure he completely changed the team to play a new formation with three at the back. That's relatively unprecedented in my memory - normally managers reinforce their original tactics even more and wait for better luck to arrive when they are under that amount of pressure.


In terms of our transfers it has given us a means to compete with our rivals.


It is very hard to build a team around a player who is phenomenally talented when you can't compete at the top of the market because what happens when they get injured or leave? you can't just buy another one because, by definition, there are so few. What you DO know is that there will always be players on the market with a high level of talent as long as you have the tactical flexibility to accommodate them. Hence they sold Torres and bought Suarez. Then they sold Suarez and bought Balotelli.


In part it is because of the completely different mindset of Europeans and Americans. Here, if you want to invest in a business the last person you would give your money to is someone who has failed in their previous enterprises. In America, most self-made millionaires have tore and failed on multiple occasions. The difference is whether they learn from their mistakes.


The owners are ruthlessly learning and evolving in a way that our rivals aren't. The usual idiots laugh and point at Commoli as proof of the owner's failure when, in reality, if they understood the process, they would recognise it as a mark of their success.

Excellent topic Swab and it gets to the heart of how we should judge the owners or indeed anyone at the club.


How are the owners planning to be successful here?


Because, make no mistake, they are working to a plan. That is how they managed to achieve so much success in their lives - by taking a series of calculated and intelligent risks to grow their business - not by inheriting oil or by rising to the top of criminal gangs.


The problem is that, by all available evidence, it is incredibly difficult to overlook the fact that brute power, in the form of money, is the key determinant of success in the professional game. Footballing knowledge comes a distant second. That's why the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City have supplanted us, Arsenal and even United (to a lesser extent since they are relatively rich) in winning honours. Overcoming four teams who are ahead of us in terms of finance, cache and setup is almost impossible.


Almost but not quite - for the owners are relying on a more powerful force - the power of evolution.


If we look at the history of their decision-making so far we can see that there is a recurrent pattern of behaviour. They believe in enacting a plan with boldness, allowing it to play out then changing the parts that don't work. That is why they have upgraded the manager on each occasion. As Swab points out that is why we have changed from a DOF to Transfer Committee to Gordon getting involved in deals.


Look at our underlying strategy with the manager. We have chosen a man whose main characteristic is his tactical flexibility. this has completely thrown a number if his critics who continue to insist, even now, that he is "stubborn" with his play. In reality, that accusation could hardly be further from the truth. We have ended up playing players in huge numbers of different positions and formations - sometimes three or four times within a game. At a time when he was under a huge amount of pressure he completely changed the team to play a new formation with three at the back. That's relatively unprecedented in my memory - normally managers reinforce their original tactics even more and wait for better luck to arrive when they are under that amount of pressure.


In terms of our transfers it has given us a means to compete with our rivals.


It is very hard to build a team around a player who is phenomenally talented when you can't compete at the top of the market because what happens when they get injured or leave? you can't just buy another one because, by definition, there are so few. What you DO know is that there will always be players on the market with a high level of talent as long as you have the tactical flexibility to accommodate them. Hence they sold Torres and bought Suarez. Then they sold Suarez and bought Balotelli.


In part it is because of the completely different mindset of Europeans and Americans. Here, if you want to invest in a business the last person you would give your money to is someone who has failed in their previous enterprises. In America, most self-made millionaires have tore and failed on multiple occasions. The difference is whether they learn from their mistakes.


The owners are ruthlessly learning and evolving in a way that our rivals aren't. The usual idiots laugh and point at Commoli as proof of the owner's failure when, in reality, if they understood the process, they would recognise it as a mark of their success.

It's almost like you're a fan of the owners or something 

It makes a lot of sense to make our signings as early as possible, he who hesitates is lost when it comes to signing sought after players.

I've been particularly impressed with the signing of firmino, During the Copa America of all things, that's some doing.
It may well be that the Penny has dropped with the Committee, Targets seem to have been identified very early, and even Ian Ayres seems to have improved his negotiating skills.

Great opening post mate especially regarding the swift negotiations and signings.

It certainly seems like someone with more knowledge of brokering and closing big money financial decisions is taking charge.

I have always had a suspicion that Ayres was too much of a brown nose to the owners and would rather play hard ball to appease the owners with savings even if it meant missing out on primary targets.

If as you say Mr Gordon has now taken the reigns of all negotiations it certainly does make a lot of sense. Plus the man obviously knows when and where to take risks with money.

Ian Ayres might have now been made into a glorified receptionist within the negotiation process who simply travels around with a biro and contract paperwork in the arse pocket of his leather biking pants and just gets the players signatures.

Oh and on pre season you are spot on. I mean take the Balotelli signing for example (bad example but whatever)... The lad was signed so late that he almost had to go straight from the airport to the dressing room for the first match. It must make a massive difference having your new players training with the squad for a good two months before the season starts.

It must also be great for the manager knowing he isn't sweating on someone he needs that might never come.

It may even be that we see Gordon become an even bigger FSG stakeholder at some point in the future and effectively become owner of Liverpool FC, albeit under the FSG umbrella.

On the money there fella.

I'll pop back later for the rest when I'm actually awake and can articulate.

*yawns*

Transfer "Committee
We know for a certainty that Ayre wasn't initially involved in negotiations in Chile until the final stages.
Rumour has it that Gordon and Fallows conducted the negotiations and did the deal.
If this was indeed the case, it raises 2 options for me.
The first option is that we are doing so much business that we have more than one negotiating team working. One in Europe and one in Chile.
The second option is that Ayre has been gently eased to one side (trying to be charitable here), and that Gordon (FSG board member, 2nd biggest FSG shareholder and FSG President) has taken over some or all of the negotiating to get things done quickly, making Ayre little more than a rubber stamp as LFC CEO.

There's been rumours since around February that Ayre was going which most people took to mean leaving the Club but it could well be that he now does just rubber stamp the deal.  That would tie in with the rumour that he had to run every detail of deals through Gordon, slowing everything down when this "change" improves and speeds up the process.  Makes perfect sense to me mate.

As for who else has been doing the negotiations, I believe in one of the press announcements of the Joe Gomez signing it says that Fallows and Hunter were responsible for the deal, so that's another of the TC involved.

He increased his stake in FSG a couple of years ago or so, and this was roughly the time he was appointed to our board.

Again, I'm making some pretty big assumptions here, but it might be that JWH and Gordon have split their roles.
JWH has responsibility for the Red Sox, and Gordon has responsibility for Liverpool.
It may even be that we see Gordon become an even bigger FSG stakeholder at some point in the future and effectively become owner of Liverpool FC, albeit under the FSG umbrella.

Which would also tie in with the rumours that JWH has "fallen out of love" with Liverpool as the reason why he's never here.

If this means we actually target, and get, players who improve the first team, players who actually fit the Managers style and the odd player to add sparkle immediately then fanfuckingtastic.

There's been rumours since around February that Ayre was going which most people took to mean leaving the Club but it could well be that he now does just rubber stamp the deal.  That would tie in with the rumour that he had to run every detail of deals through Gordon, slowing everything down when this "change" improves and speeds up the process.  Makes perfect sense to me mate.

As for who else has been doing the negotiations, I believe in one of the press announcements of the Joe Gomez signing it says that Fallows and Hunter were responsible for the deal, so that's another of the TC involved.

Which would also tie in with the rumours that JWH has "fallen out of love" with Liverpool as the reason why he's never here.

If this means we actually target, and get, players who improve the first team, players who actually fit the Managers style and the odd player to add sparkle immediately then fanfuckingtastic.

Hunter as well?
That's interesting.

I'm not sure that JWH was ever in or out of love with us mate.
I think JWH prefers baseball and Gordon likes football so they've agreed, as the 2 biggest shareholders, on a division of responsibility that suits them both, plus JWH is (I think) 65 now so is probably wanting less travelling and to slow down a bit in general.

Hunter as well?
That's interesting.

I'm not sure that JWH was ever in or out of love with us mate.
I think JWH prefers baseball and Gordon likes football so they've agreed, as the 2 biggest shareholders, on a division of responsibility that suits them both, plus JWH is (I think) 65 now so is probably wanting less travelling and to slow down a bit in general.

Tbh I couldn't care less whose name is above the door mate, so long as the Club is run to benefit the football as much as the bottom line.

Excellent opening post and a very interesting topic. We've been by a distance the most active team in the Premiership so far, and it appears there's a real recognition from the guys that are in charge that we have a mountain to climb. I've long maintained that as much as I don't agree with their "buy em young sell em high/lowish wages" transfer policy, even if we made just minor adjustments we could have much more on-field opportunities. The signing of Milner was a huge shift in focus and appears to have been the catalyst for a much more progressive outlook.

Excellent opening post and a very interesting topic. We've been by a distance the most active team in the Premiership so far, and it appears there's a real recognition from the guys that are in charge that we have a mountain to climb. I've long maintained that as much as I don't agree with their "buy em young sell em high/lowish wages" transfer policy, even if we made just minor adjustments we could have much more on-field opportunities. The signing of Milner was a huge shift in focus and appears to have been the catalyst for a much more progressive outlook.

Good points mick.
I'm pretty sure this has been months in the planning, and they have been extremely focused, which is very good to see.

Good points mick.
I'm pretty sure this has been months in the planning, and they have been extremely focused, which is very good to see.

It does appear so Swab.

It is the most focused I can remember us in a transfer window and I'm expecting some decent announcements in the rest of the management structure as well in the coming days.

It does appear so Swab.

It is the most focused I can remember us in a transfer window and I'm expecting some decent announcements in the rest of the management structure as well in the coming days.

The one that everyone's waiting for is the assistant to the manager (assuming the twitter story about Brendan out Klopp in isn't true). Then, after three years of people moaning about Brendan "talking too much" I guess even they will be very interested to see what he's got to say for himself when he comes back.

We all know the issues we've faced and the problems we've had in the transfer market with drawn out negotiations etc which also have a detrimental effect on the team at the start of the season.
We've also heard BR complain (maybe that's too strong a word) about "training time" and it occurred to me that perhaps he meant training time in pre-season as well as during the season.
So far, this transfer window has been something I can't remember seeing before, because we are completing major signings before the window is open.
It's not just under FSG, we have been seeing this for years, and Parry was notorious for being very slow.
When we are slow, it also has a very negative impact on the integration of new players.

I've been having a think and a look back at conversations over the last week or so, and it appears to me that major changes are taking place behind the scenes.
A lot of this is going to be supposition and I am going to assume a couple of things as well, so bear with me, then tell me what you think.

Transfer "Committee
We know for a certainty that Ayre wasn't initially involved in negotiations in Chile until the final stages.
Rumour has it that Gordon and Fallows conducted the negotiations and did the deal.
If this was indeed the case, it raises 2 options for me.
The first option is that we are doing so much business that we have more than one negotiating team working. One in Europe and one in Chile.
The second option is that Ayre has been gently eased to one side (trying to be charitable here), and that Gordon (FSG board member, 2nd biggest FSG shareholder and FSG President) has taken over some or all of the negotiating to get things done quickly, making Ayre little more than a rubber stamp as LFC CEO.

Assuming the above is correct, and admittedly it's a bit of a leap based only on a rumour, there has been a significant change in our recruitment process.
If Gordon has stepped forwards with Fallows as an advisor, it means that there is a lot more leeway in the negotiating process simply because Gordon is so senior at FSG.
Gordon is (apparently) a follower of football and has been for years.
He increased his stake in FSG a couple of years ago or so, and this was roughly the time he was appointed to our board.

Again, I'm making some pretty big assumptions here, but it might be that JWH and Gordon have split their roles.
JWH has responsibility for the Red Sox, and Gordon has responsibility for Liverpool.
It may even be that we see Gordon become an even bigger FSG stakeholder at some point in the future and effectively become owner of Liverpool FC, albeit under the FSG umbrella.


Pre Season and integration
The effect on the team of getting our business done so early is that of much more training time in pre-season.
Yes, we'll be going on tours, but players still train more or less normally during tours, with the obvious exception of extra rest days due to travel.
However training is not always physical work, and during the extra rest days, they will be doing more "classroom" work, with the videos, chalkboards, tactics etc
We all know that integrating new players into a team is difficult and often a slow process, but any extra time that can be spent integrating them with more training time pre-season can only be beneficial.
In every single season under BR we have seen a slow start, and I believe that being slow to complete deals, and thus leading to less time to integrate new players has been a factor in this, as well as fitness levels at the start of a season.
Even when we placed second, we started the season by scraping a few games and didn't really hit our stride and start battering teams until we were approaching mid season, of course we then caught fire.
If getting our business done early leads to even a small percentage rise in performance in the early part of the season, we'll be in good shape.

As I said before, I'm basing this on rumours and supposition, but it seems logical to me.

The points about Ayre and Co is probably bang on as it's believed that Ayre has been offered and has accepted a wonderful job offer from Standard Chartered that he will take up later this year.

Regarding getting  business done early, I suppose I'll wait until I pass judgement but the signs are promising. Thing is though, if Bacca signs for Milan (has he?) and Benteke doesn't come, I can see us having a bit of a panic and this window not looking as calculated as it does right now.

Good OP but for now I'm gong to wait and see how it goes. My gut tells me there is plenty of time for us to F**k the window up and quite frankly, there's no change there then.

Regarding getting  business done early, I suppose I'll wait until I pass judgement but the signs are promising. Thing is though, if Bacca signs for Milan (has he?) and Benteke doesn't come, I can see us having a bit of a panic and this window not looking as calculated as it does right now.

But if Benteke was our first target and the guy we want, and we get him, surely it makes it an even better window Dave?

The points about Ayre and Co is probably bang on as it's believed that Ayre has been offered and has accepted a wonderful job offer from Standard Chartered that he will take up later this year.

Regarding getting  business done early, I suppose I'll wait until I pass judgement but the signs are promising. Thing is though, if Bacca signs for Milan (has he?) and Benteke doesn't come, I can see us having a bit of a panic and this window not looking as calculated as it does right now.

Good OP but for now I'm gong to wait and see how it goes. My gut tells me there is plenty of time for us to F**k the window up and quite frankly, there's no change there then.

I agree that there's still work to be done, but I also think that 6 targets in before the window opens is excellent work, especially as there was 3rd party ownership fuckery with Firmino.

I agree that there's still work to be done, but I also think that 6 targets in before the window opens is excellent work, especially as there was 3rd party ownership fuckery with Firmino.

You raise a great point on Mike Gordon Swab.

Many of us, myself included, just presumed he know F**k all about football when it came out that he is more involved in the club over the past year or so when it could very well be the opposite. For all we know he could know quite a lot about the game and the running of a football club and maybe these deals shows a level of ability that we thought wasn't there.

Also if he is more involved he could take up that Sporting Director style role, albeit not in the traditional sense and maybe more a football administrator, and he will use Fallows and Hunter more as his back up and we will have a structure that some of us would like to see.

So far this has been the best transfer window in years and it's not even open yet.

If we sign Clyne, Illarra, a LB and Striker it could be our best window ever.

You raise a great point on Mike Gordon Swab.

Many of us, myself included, just presumed he know F**k all about football when it came out that he is more involved in the club over the past year or so when it could very well be the opposite. For all we know he could know quite a lot about the game and the running of a football club and maybe these deals shows a level of ability that we thought wasn't there.

Also if he is more involved he could take up that Sporting Director style role, albeit not in the traditional sense and maybe more a football administrator, and he will use Fallows and Hunter more as his back up and we will have a structure that some of us would like to see.

It's hard to find information about him, but he's been described a few times as being interested in Football, and of the senior FSG people involved, he has the most knowledge.
It seems to me that Ayre is being somewhat micro-managed by Gordon, which doesn't bode well for him, although on the other hand, if Ayre is leaving for standard chartered (rumour) it makes complete sense for Gordon to step up.

Whatever the case, there has been a vast improvement in how we conduct our business.

But if Benteke was our first target and the guy we want, and we get him, surely it makes it an even better window Dave?

Yeah Si, don't think I've said it wouldn't.  Even though personally I don't want him.