What about Defence?

Is it just me or do we not seem to be addressing the fact that we shipped 9 goals in our last two games against mediocre teams?

ok, I know we have bought Clyne but I see him as an asset going forward, not necessarily his defensive duties.

We might put a few more in the net this year, but I think there are some very big questions at the back to be discussed, and as of yet I haven't seen the answer....

When you consider how many goals we concede from our attacks breaking down, having a proper attacking right back with an end product might help enormously.
I honestly don't think the personnel are the biggest problem, We have (for the most part) decent defenders, it's the change in tactics that will hopefully sort out our defence, or at least lessen the damage they cause buy increasing our goal tally.

Brendan and defence aren't the best of friends.

Just accept it and hope we get back to banging them in at the other end.

Brendan and defence aren't the best of friends.

Just accept it and hope we get back to banging them in at the other end.

Even with Suarez that didn't prove enough, think there's much more effort needed than accepting it.

Personally I'm hoping an Ilori / Sakho partnership might end up being our pair by the end of the year (through Ilori forcing his way into the team) and we manage to pick up a LB in the transfer market.

Even with Suarez that didn't prove enough, think there's much more effort needed than accepting it.

Personally I'm hoping an Ilori / Sakho partnership might end up being our pair by the end of the year (through Ilori forcing his way into the team) and we manage to pick up a LB in the transfer market.

I'm not being 100% serious Luke as you probably guessed mate.

I think scoring more will be a massive help though and like you I've been thinking a bit about Ilori this week as from what I've seen he has all the attributes to be a top CB.

I'm not being 100% serious Luke as you probably guessed mate.

I think scoring more will be a massive help though and like you I've been thinking a bit about Ilori this week as from what I've seen he has all the attributes to be a top CB.

Yeah I did mate, but with our defence only showing proper improvement for a short spell (when Lucas was in and we switched to 3 at the back) I hope the new coaches and Brendan get to work on them because that is one area that can improve massively and will probably be the first indicator of the influence the changes in the coaching staff have made.

I think the Defence will be much improved without Stevie playing in the centre of the park.

I still think that there will be a gap opened up between defence and the deepest lying midfielder as Mig doesn't come off his line enough and Skrtel likes to drop off too much however we should have much more energy to press and compress the play.

Overall, I would still like to see our play weighted towards attack but I think we can reasonably aim to concede 15 goals less just by changing personnel.

I think you might be on to something with Illori lads. I think he may well be our best (although unproven) all round defender.
Really hopes he gets his chance, I would even have him above Lovren in the pecking order for his speed and ariel ability.

I think the Defence will be much improved without Stevie playing in the centre of the park.

I still think that there will be a gap opened up between defence and the deepest lying midfielder as Mig doesn't come off his line enough and Skrtel likes to drop off too much however we should have much more energy to press and compress the play.

Overall, I would still like to see our play weighted towards attack but I think we can reasonably aim to concede 15 goals less just by changing personnel.

I agree Hollywood.

I still think we'll leak goals at times but with Hendo and Milner and Phil I expect a more compact midfield.

I agree Hollywood.

I still think we'll leak goals at times but with Hendo and Milner and Phil I expect a more compact midfield.

What I'm waiting to see is who we actually get rid of.

At the moment it's a struggle to see how we are going to fit in our best players - unless we are planning to rotate heavily - which isn't characteristic of Rodger's tactics so far.

If we are rotating more I think that will greatly help also as we can push up our intensity of pressing.

Specialist DM will sort out a lot of our problems, it's as simple as that. Look at how much a difference Lucas made when he played, even when he was injured and Allen came in, he did a reasonable defensive job.

That is true however the manager doesn't seem to believe in using a specialist DM - he wants the team to defend as a unit; that's why we haven't been linked to one.

It's looking like Can will be used as the most defensive of the midfielders but I think that is as close as we are going to get. 

That is true however the manager doesn't seem to believe in using a specialist DM - he wants the team to defend as a unit; that's why we haven't been linked to one.

That's what I don't understand, we can still defend as a unit and attack fluidly with a DM.

That's what I don't understand, we can still defend as a unit and attack fluidly with a DM.

We can although there is definitely a drop-off in our attacking play with a specialist DM.

What we really need to do is impose our pacey, pressing games on teams so they are scared to push up against us.

If they drop off, the need for a DM is even less marked.

At the moment though I agree the very least we need to do is hold onto Lucas.

Brendan and defence aren't the best of friends.

Just accept it and hope we get back to banging them in at the other end.

Brendan thinks defence is the thing that goes around degarden.

We can although there is definitely a drop-off in our attacking play with a specialist DM.

And this is where a DLPM would be ideal.

What we really need to do is impose our pacey, pressing games on teams so they are scared to push up against us.

The way I see it, with a DM, we're still able to push up and press them with intent.

   DM/DLPM
Hendo  Milner
   Coutinho
 Ings   Firmino

Would be crazy to press them with 6 and leave huge gaps in the middle imo :p

Just hope Rodgers looks into it rather than all out attack

Yep - generally I agree with you.

In truth I think the manager is trying a bit too hard to have a mobile, interchanging middle three but who knows - perhaps he will pull it off.

I think Arsenal's form improved when they played Coquelin instead of Arteta there. The other top teams seem to have a DM who is able to control / play a bit.

I think Arsenal's form improved when they played Coquelin instead of Arteta there. The other top teams seem to have a DM who is able to control / play a bit.

Yeah, I agree. I know Arsenal fans have been crying out for a specialist DM in the middle for a while, makes a huge difference!

In truth I think the manager is trying a bit too hard to have a mobile, interchanging middle three but who knows - perhaps he will pull it off.

Did we ever play an inter changing midfield 3 last 3 seasons under Rodgers? I don't think we have? It was either Gerrard as our DLPM or Lucas/Allen sitting? I don't recall ever seeing that.

Liverpool's best defender was Ian Rush. You defend from the front and as a team.

As soon as your team is without the ball, you become the first defender. Sammy Lee has been asked who was the best defender Liverpool ever had, 'Hansen, Lawrenson who else?' No, he says, 'Ian Rush'. A lot of strikers have a shot at goal and then they switch off. The good ones get back into position and think now you have to go past me, I am going to be a defender. You have to learn to chase back. That's what I teach people at my school, once they start scoring goals and think it’s easy, I take them to the next level. Let’s see now if you can defend. They go, 'I don’t have to defend.' You have to realise that you’ve got to defend if you’re a striker. You’ve got to make it easier for your midfielders and they try to make it easier for the defenders and they make it easy for the goalkeeper.

http://www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/62

Yeah, I agree. I know Arsenal fans have been crying out for a specialist DM in the middle for a while, makes a huge difference!

Did we ever play an inter changing midfield 3 last 3 seasons under Rodgers? I don't think we have? It was either Gerrard as our DLPM or Lucas/Allen sitting? I don't recall ever seeing that.

You are correct mate - I mean that he has never wanted a specialist DM there; Lucas got a game because he was already at the club.

Would be interesting to see which options were availabel on the market.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I'd happily send Skrtel packing. Instead we offered him a new contract. Non communicator who lives off the dominance and hard work of others. Overrated.

The largest problem last year was that 2 out of the back 4, could defend (how well the CBs fair is up for discussion). This forced us back into a 3, which actually meant 6 defensive minded players on the pitch as the wing backs and central "sitting" midfielder in the 3-5-2 are constantly covering the holes in the flanks/middle of the pitch.
We had Can, Toure, Henderson, Sterling, Markovic, Ibe at right back.... On the other side we have Moreno (who must have cost us at least 10 goals last season, either getting beaten too easily or switching off at set plays), or Johnson.

Clyne is a huge boost, and hopefully means we can revert to a back 4 (back 3 is suicidal in my op, as teams quickly click on they need to press high or leave 2 up top and play direct balls).  Competition for Moreno is another priority, or maybe Gomez was brought in for this purpose?

Completely agree with the DM comments here, look how Rafa set us up in 2004/05/06. Even nowadays where sides are reverting to 1 up top to flood the midfield, a DM makes a huge difference. Hate to say it but look at Chelsea. The back 4 and Matic (most underrated player in the league in my op), basically won them the league, and allowed the other 5 players on the pitch to just focus on scoring goals.

Is it just me or do we not seem to be addressing the fact that we shipped 9 goals in our last two games against mediocre teams?

ok, I know we have bought Clyne but I see him as an asset going forward, not necessarily his defensive duties.

We might put a few more in the net this year, but I think there are some very big questions at the back to be discussed, and as of yet I haven't seen the answer....

History shows that you can qualify or win a league by conceding anywhere between 25 and 50 goals. Take away those last two games where we downed tools and conceded 9 and we arent that bad. Actually better than the season before I think.

Goals and a little tweek and our position changes dramatically.

#positivity

Defence will always be a problem without the team being able to play a high line and compressing the space between defence and midfield.

Which means Skrtel needs to be binned and Migs dropped.

Defence will always be a problem without the team being able to play a high line and compressing the space between defence and midfield.

Which means Skrtel needs to be binned and Migs dropped.

Precisely mate.  They may play in their "designated" positions but they're very much square pegs in round holes when it comes to Brendans preferred set up. 

One drops deep, the other's glued to his line whilst the rest of the defense are moving in the opposite direction.  It makes our defense look a total F**k up, costs us points in virtually every game and the best DM in world football wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference in protecting them. 

It needs some of de creosote, I'm on it.

Defence will always be a problem without the team being able to play a high line and compressing the space between defence and midfield.

Which means Skrtel needs to be binned and Migs dropped.

Just as you mention that, how's Bogdan with his feet?

Just as you mention that, how's Bogdan with his feet?

Well if his hands are anything to go by then not very good Bert

I know it's not a popular opinion but I'd happily send Skrtel packing. Instead we offered him a new contract. Non communicator who lives off the dominance and hard work of others. Overrated.

Thinking back to when Rafa signed him he always seemed dodgy , giving away stupid frees around the box , silly decision making from him .

Well if his hands are anything to go by then not very good Bert

  Can't have worse feet than Migs I imagine.

It needs some of de creosote, I'm on it.

Fook you must be old , you got somr old stock in the shed have ya , cant get it no more tried to buy some a while back .

Scoring goals is the biggie, the defence was ok at times last season, if we can keep main guys like Sakho & Skrtel fit we have a solid base there, Clyne will make a massive difference as well.

Enrique and Flanno when fit will also push Clyne & Moreno this season.

And the young CB's like Llori & the new lad will also be pushing the regular guys, competion for places should be a lot better, which will make everybody play better.

Fook you must be old , you got somr old stock in the shed have ya , cant get it no more tried to buy some a while back .

Thinking back to when Rafa signed him he always seemed dodgy , giving away stupid frees around the box , silly decision making from him .

That's still him now. Hand on heart I don't think he's improved at all it's just that the people around him have gotten worse over the years. He's our "best defender" by default.

To be fair when I started this thread I was just thinking about some new signings, not the formation aspect.

Interesting viewpoints and I guess that's why I'll never make a good manager ;-) Personally I'd like to see Cann in Midfield at some point.

Also at the moment just look at how attacking we might be at full-back if Clyne and Moreno both play. I suspect we will be pretty dodgy defensively again next season if that's a the case.

Also at the moment just look at how attacking we might be at full-back if Clyne and Moreno both play. I suspect we will be pretty dodgy defensively again next season if that's a the case.

Which is why a new DM is so important.

Which is why a new DM is so important.

I agree although I personally would prefer to see one attacking full-back on one side (such as Clyne, I'm not a big fan of Moreno) and a more solid player on the other side (think someone like Phillipe Luis at the chavs) as tis gives you a little more defensive solidarity. With this in mind i'm hoping young Flanagan can get himself fit and claim that left-back spot (he has had all of his best games playing on that side of the pitch).

Johnathon Northcroft saying Lucas is likely off to Italy. So looks like we are in the market for a defensive minded midfielder like Illarramendi, probably waiting for the Sterling saga to finish.

Johnathon Northcroft saying Lucas is likely off to Italy. So looks like we are in the market for a defensive minded midfielder like Illarramendi, probably waiting for the Sterling saga to finish.

Well with Cabaye going to Palace I hope we do have someone in the bag if Lucas is to be off. Personally I think it's a mistake letting Lucas leave if two DM don't come in, we've been caught short before in that area but Brendan clearly thinks that either Can or Allen can cover. I'd disagree with him, conclusively on Allen and simply due to experience and development in terms of Can.

Well with Cabaye going to Palace I hope we do have someone in the bag if Lucas is to be off. Personally I think it's a mistake letting Lucas leave if two DM don't come in, we've been caught short before in that area but Brendan clearly thinks that either Can or Allen can cover. I'd disagree with him, conclusively on Allen and simply due to experience and development in terms of Can.

It's obvious that Rodgers doesn't play with a real DM by the number of times Lucas has played under him.
Before his ACL Lucas was as good as you get in the EPL but his  lack of mobility now is only going to be further exposed in a Rodgers midfield.

I would prefer Kovacic personally but Illarramendi is still an upgrade on Lucas as a DLPM.

Think it's risky to rely on 1 specialist DM, should be keeping Lucas and buying a 2nd with Allen as third choice DM and Can & Allen back ups for Milner & Hendo in that box-box role.

If it's true and we do plan on selling Lucas, we should try for, Camacho(really rate him), Kramer, Illarra, Bender, Schneiderlin or Carvalho, failing that, we'll probably end up buying Cattermole and play him as a deep lying defensive playmaker!

Camacho(really rate him), Kramer, Illarra, Bender, Schneiderlin or Carvalho

Like this list although I've only seen Camacho play a few times (guess you mean Ignacio?)

Like this list although I've only seen Camacho play a few times (guess you mean Ignacio?)

Yep I think he's at that stage in his career where he should join a big club to take him to the next level. Every time he plays for Malaga, they look much stronger with him as a defensive and attacking unit. Another play I rate highly is, Sergi Darder, though not quite a DM, he is similar type of player to Allen, but far better in every aspect!

Anyway, we have our defense in the forward areas covered and actually think our high pressing can be just as good as the 13/14 season:

Firmino  Ings
    Lallana/Coutinho
Milner   Hendo/Allen
        DM

All players capable of pressing intensely all day long! But what good would that be without a strong DM? I cannot emphasise enough the importance of a strong DM/DLPM sitting there, it really does allow our players more freedom, whether to press or attack. An exceptional DM changes everything for me.

Yep I think he's at that stage in his career where he should join a big club to take him to the next level. Every time he plays for Malaga, they look much stronger with him as a defensive and attacking unit. Another play I rate highly is, Sergi Darder, though not quite a DM, he is similar type of player to Allen, but far better in every aspect!

Anyway, we have our defense in the forward areas covered and actually think our high pressing can be just as good as the 13/14 season:

Firmino  Ings
    Lallana/Coutinho
Milner   Hendo/Allen
        DM

All players capable of pressing intensely all day long! But what good would that be without a strong DM? I cannot emphasise enough the importance of a strong DM/DLPM sitting there, it really does allow our players more freedom, whether to press or attack. An exceptional DM changes everything for me.

I agree fella.

If we got Lacazette or Berahino + any of those you listed (my preference would be for Bender but Illarra is not much of a downgrade then I think we're set for top 4.

If we just get Benteke and sell Lucas then I think we're stuffed.

If we just get Benteke and get Illarra (any of those you listed) then I think top 4 is possible.

I think Milner has been brought in to do what Gerrard did towards the end of his time and that's to cover the back 4. he has a good range of passes and can tackle along with the amount of distance he covers per game which is high. I think he would be a ideal player there as we would get more games out of him and he can have a Can next to him or just infront along with hendo to link up the play. For me Lucas now is on borrowed time with BR as we have seen since his arrival 3 seasons ago he's not bought an out and out DM and has always beleived in just having one of the mid player taking responsibility and covering when people bomb on. i think we will line up like this below with defence picking itself as Sakho and skrtel clyne and moreno.
                                                   
                                           milner   can
                                             hendo
                                   Coutino         Firmino
                                              Striker
                                             

If anyone should be on borrowed time it should be Joe Allen not Lucas, people say he's reliable yeah a reliable 6 out of ten performer never more never less if we want to move forward as a club it's his squad place that should be taken by hopefully which ever new centre midfield comes in.
For me Lucas does a designated job when he's on the pitch braking things up which he is decent at, I'm sure Joe Allen is a nice guy and all that but just doesn't cut it for me.

If anyone should be on borrowed time it should be Joe Allen not Lucas, people say he's reliable yeah a reliable 6 out of ten performer never more never less if we want to move forward as a club it's his squad place that should be taken by hopefully which ever new centre midfield comes in.
For me Lucas does a designated job when he's on the pitch braking things up which he is decent at, I'm sure Joe Allen is a nice guy and all that but just doesn't cut it for me.

i think both allen and lucas should go and we bring in Texeria and other talents from u21s, in the mean time trust Can,lallana, milner, hendo who can all play in central mid with coutiho and firmino as your attacking two mids. thats plenty

I think the addition of Clyne is going to improve our D. He may be the best signing this summer.

Sakho has to be no1 CB this season he's our best CB the next issue is i dont think Skrtel or Lovren are good enough. Skrtel has been at the club along time and was passed over as Capt as he's not a leader and he should be. Lovren i hope just had a bad season and can come good but with Ilori breathing down his neck I think his season will continue were it left off.

If only we could pair Sakho with Otamendi

I hope  our defence wil improve  this season. We  are stil struggling to get the best  partnership in our CD  .Maybe with the new additions BR  will get it right this time.

I've got a terrible feeling Skrtel is going to be a massive liability for us this year. It's up to Sakho to lead the line this year - by far and away our best defender.

We need to keep Lucas as back for a top class DM, my choice would be raping Barcelona for Busquets,

I think he could be tempted by regular action in the best league on the planet,

Offer the Catalans around £18m and they'll snap yer hands off, that leaves £31m of the Sterling Sterling to go get  Lacazette, having those two will imo get us at least top 4, and you never know if it all clicks together another serious assault for no 19.


YNWA

What about it. Two new signings.
Wisdom and Ilori back from their loan deals.

Sorted.

Now go and get a Striker and clear out the ones that haven't worked.

Our defence is still terrible. It will always be terrible under Rodgers, cos he has no defensive nous whatsosver.

The fact that we have not replaced Mignolet is ludicrous ( IMO) .

We are about to have one of the the worst starts to a season in our history, and many will be screaming for Rodgers head after 5 games.

It is once again amatuer night at Anfield. Rodgers has bought in a scattergun fashion again.

Instead of buying a strong spine to the team, Goalkeeper, Centrehalf, Midfielder  and striker . He has once again ignored the defence. Clyne does not add defensive solidity to our  team. He adds another scatterbrained addition to our non stratagy attack, whilst leaving our defence open.

Get ready for a first day calamity away to Stoke.  As soon as i saw our pre - season games , it sent sent a shiver up my spine.  It is a stage managed exercise in self delusion of the team. A big, soft , cozy  run of games ,  to stem any negative press away from the manager and team . Then , with a mighty slap in the face, we go to Stoke.
Remember, this is the same defence, with the same defensive coaching behind it .

Here we go again.

Need cover at LB and CB moreno not good enough and not sure Gomez ready just yet for a full season. Ideally a top notch CB also   as some have mentioned Both Sakho and Skyrtl still error prone and back up Lovren and Toure hardly fills me with confidence .

Our defence is still terrible. It will always be terrible under Rodgers, cos he has no defensive nous whatsosver.

The fact that we have not replaced Mignolet is ludicrous ( IMO) .

We are about to have one of the the worst starts to a season in our history, and many will be screaming for Rodgers head after 5 games.

It is once again amatuer night at Anfield. Rodgers has bought in a scattergun fashion again.

Instead of buying a strong spine to the team, Goalkeeper, Centrehalf, Midfielder  and striker . He has once again ignored the defence. Clyne does not add defensive solidity to our  team. He adds another scatterbrained addition to our non stratagy attack, whilst leaving our defence open.

Get ready for a first day calamity away to Stoke.  As soon as i saw our pre - season games , it sent sent a shiver up my spine.  It is a stage managed exercise in self delusion of the team. A big, soft , cozy  run of games ,  to stem any negative press away from the manager and team . Then , with a mighty slap in the face, we go to Stoke.
Remember, this is the same defence, with the same defensive coaching behind it .

Here we go again.

you buzzing then?