Malaysia XI 1:1 Liverpool Pre, in game & post match discussion.

Matic. Probably the best in the PL last season in that role and realistically was the saving grace for Cahill and Terry on many many occasions.

Obi Mikel was his backup as a purely defensive midfielder.

See, if we signed either of those players I wouldn't automatically feel yes everything is fine now, most likely it's my fault for not recognising the importance of that role in a team.

I use the word fine as a positive, meaning good or solid.

Lovren is worthless man...the only reason you wouldn't admit to that is if you really just like the player and that's fine, but his play has been atrocious.

That's your personal opinion again.

On the balance of things he has been no better or worse than Sakho perhaps Sakho would just shave it by 0.5 of a score for me. Bottom line both yet to prove the fees we paid for them the criticism of Lovren is over the top the fee always makes him an easy target and will hang as a noose around his neck.

That's your personal opinion again.

On the balance of things he has been no better or worse than Sakho perhaps Sakho would just shave it by 0.5 of a score for me. Bottom line both yet to prove the fees we paid for them the criticism of Lovren is over the top the fee always makes him an easy target and will hang as a noose around his neck.

That's your opinion as well. For me not a huge amount of difference between Sakho, Skrtel or Lovren, overall, last season.  And in my opinion, Sakho was marginally the better of the three.

That's your opinion as well. For me not a huge amount of difference between Sakho, Skrtel or Lovren, overall, last season.  And in my opinion, Sakho was marginally the better of the three.

The opinion bit was directly in relation to his "crap".

As said Sakho would just shave it for me and neither have given bang for buck.

It's ludicrous we spent 2 pages analysing a goal Lovren was at fault for against Malaysia. No mention of the two amateur boo boos by Sakho against Brisbane in 30 seconds nor if we dissect with the same scrutiny the 6 goals vs Stoke on final day Sakho is at fault for 4.

The opinion bit was directly in relation to his "crap".

As said Sakho would just shave it for me and neither have given bang for buck.

It's ludicrous we spent 2 pages analysing a goal Lovren was at fault for against Malaysia. No mention of the two amateur boo boos by Sakho against Brisbane in 30 seconds nor if we dissect with the same scrutiny the 6 goals vs Stoke on final day Sakho is at fault for 4.

And the number of times Skrtel consistently dropped deep, splitting the defence caused shitloads of problems, that barely got a mention too.

See, if we signed either of those players I wouldn't automatically feel yes everything is fine now, most likely it's my fault for not recognising the importance of that role in a team.

You're certainly not alone there and in fact I think that I'm in the minority when it comes to believing in the importance of an excellent holding midfielder - perhaps because it's the position that I played, but that's beside the point. 

Regardless, I feel that we'd see a significant improvement with a good DM (note the win % difference with Lucas in the team - it's typically something like 1.5x - 2x). And that's not because Lucas is the best player we have, it's because he fills a role that nobody else can and as an externality to that, he improves the side vastly.

The objective of that role is to serve as a guardian to the back four in not only making tackles, but intercepting key passes, cleverly positioning yourself to force offenses in certain directions, winning aerial battles to break up play and take possession, and bring structure and guidance to the back four and midfield as a unit.

In terms of other duties, the DM should also be capable of finding passes that can remove the ball from pressure, launching attacks, consistently be an option for any player on the pitch to pass to, recycle possession, and once again serve as the connection of ball movement between the back four and our midfield/attack.

Outside of Lucas, there is nobody in our side that can do this and I think we'd be doing our defense and our "goals against" statistic a massive favor by either acquiring someone better who Brendan has more faith in that can fill the role, playing Lucas there, or grooming Emre Can to play that position.

Utilizing that role will do a lot more than have a simple, direct impact, but it also serves as a huge impact in terms of team structure, opposition team's offensive abilities and movements, and our possession abilities. The fact that Brendan hasn't realized this yet is mind-boggling to me personally.

Again these are all just facets of my opinion and may not be the case whatsoever, but I like to think that a lifetime of dedication to playing, watching, and studying the sport gives me at least some foundation of knowledge to understand what makes a team tick, but a lot of people out there have the same, if not more experience/knowledge than myself and may very well say differently!

And the number of times Skrtel consistently dropped deep, splitting the defence caused shitloads of problems, that barely got a mention too.

More to my point that Sakho is not a thinking man if he was Skrtel or whoever partnered him would be marshalled and organised further up the pitch.

That's your opinion as well. For me not a huge amount of difference between Sakho, Skrtel or Lovren, overall, last season.  And in my opinion, Sakho was marginally the better of the three.

I can't see how the defence will improve on last season , apart from Clyne nothing else has changed . Skrtel and Lovren should never play alongside each other . We haven't brought in a serious competitor for Mignolet . Moreno needs to improve big time on last season , i like the lad and think he'll click and Sakho still doesn't fill me with confidence .

More to my point that Sakho is not a thinking man if he was Skrtel or whoever partnered him would be marshalled and organised further up the pitch.

Skrtel should have been that man, but he just isn't that good.  Will always be the lesser of a partnership, as he hasn't the mental strength to lead it.  The closest we've got to a CB leader is Toure and he can't cut it as more than fourth choice.

Regardless, I feel that we'd see a significant improvement with a good DM (note the win % difference with Lucas in the team - it's typically something like 1.5x - 2x). And that's not because Lucas is the best player we have, it's because he fills a role that nobody else can and as an externality to that, he improves the side vastly.

It forms a glue to the team, doesn't it? As an attacking player, knowing you have a strong DM behind you, you are more expressive (as Coutinho said few months ago about having Lucas there), but more importantly, as you mentioned, it serves as a guardian for the defence.

Outside of Lucas, there is nobody in our side that can do this and I think we'd be doing our defense and our "goals against" statistic a massive favor by either acquiring someone better who Brendan has more faith in that can fill the role, playing Lucas there, or grooming Emre Can to play that position.

This is my main concern. You just need to look at the type of football we played when we had Lucas playing and when he was out injured. Our quality in possession play dropped and we lacked control.
As for Can, not for me. He is too direct and his short passing is probably the weakest out of our midfielders. Allen is the most suitable cover, but we all know he's way too inconsistent and struggles to stamp that authority needed vs stronger opposition.

Again these are all just facets of my opinion and may not be the case whatsoever, but I like to think that a lifetime of dedication to playing, watching, and studying the sport gives me at least some foundation of knowledge to understand what makes a team tick, but a lot of people out there have the same, if not more experience/knowledge than myself and may very well say differently!

It's about preferences isn't it? And whilst I understand why some choose not to want a specialist, I'd politely disagree and believe  every team would be better off with one.

Look at the best past and present teams, how many of them operate/operated with a specalist DM/DLPM? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the most successful and strongest team always utlises them?

You're certainly not alone there and in fact I think that I'm in the minority when it comes to believing in the importance of an excellent holding midfielder - perhaps because it's the position that I played, but that's beside the point. 

Regardless, I feel that we'd see a significant improvement with a good DM (note the win % difference with Lucas in the team - it's typically something like 1.5x - 2x). And that's not because Lucas is the best player we have, it's because he fills a role that nobody else can and as an externality to that, he improves the side vastly.

The objective of that role is to serve as a guardian to the back four in not only making tackles, but intercepting key passes, cleverly positioning yourself to force offenses in certain directions, winning aerial battles to break up play and take possession, and bring structure and guidance to the back four and midfield as a unit.

In terms of other duties, the DM should also be capable of finding passes that can remove the ball from pressure, launching attacks, consistently be an option for any player on the pitch to pass to, recycle possession, and once again serve as the connection of ball movement between the back four and our midfield/attack.

Outside of Lucas, there is nobody in our side that can do this and I think we'd be doing our defense and our "goals against" statistic a massive favor by either acquiring someone better who Brendan has more faith in that can fill the role, playing Lucas there, or grooming Emre Can to play that position.

Utilizing that role will do a lot more than have a simple, direct impact, but it also serves as a huge impact in terms of team structure, opposition team's offensive abilities and movements, and our possession abilities. The fact that Brendan hasn't realized this yet is mind-boggling to me personally.

Again these are all just facets of my opinion and may not be the case whatsoever, but I like to think that a lifetime of dedication to playing, watching, and studying the sport gives me at least some foundation of knowledge to understand what makes a team tick, but a lot of people out there have the same, if not more experience/knowledge than myself and may very well say differently!

Would Milner and Henderson be able to do the job or do they have to be specialists?

Would Milner and Henderson be able to do the job or do they have to be specialists?

Milner will probably be the one trusted after Lucas to sit and control. Allen is ok, but I think he is better further forward, but we have better players for that.

Would Milner and Henderson be able to do the job or do they have to be specialists?

They probably could mate but I think they both operate better on the other side of the centre circle.  For me they'd be wasted playing so deep.

^
True true but if needs be Milner could do that job really well, maybe he wasn't brought here to be an all over the pitch player, maybe it's to be a more disciplined and consistent DM. We have got options though, if people are worried about that position and defenders being left to deal with more than they should.

^
True true but if needs be Milner could do that job really well, maybe he wasn't brought here to be an all over the pitch player, maybe it's to be a more disciplined and consistent DM. We have got options though, if people are worried about that position and defenders being left to deal with more than they should.

I think the fact that we started all our tour games with a player behind him would suggest he's not going to be used as a DM on a regular basis though mate.  As you say, we have options more suited to the position so why remove his attacking threat having him so deep.

It will depend on what Brendan wants fro. His midfield, he does like to talk about the flipping the triangle fro. 1-2 to a 2-1. If he goes for option two he can ask both Milner and Henderson to sit as the 2 with Coutinho ahead of them as a the one. He has talked about Coutinho being able to play as a ore traditional number 8 in the past (according to the player). Maybe we will see a bit more of this this season, particularly at home. You could play (for example) Lallana, Benteke and Firmino as a front three and still have Coutinho behind them. You could also throw Ibe Into that mix.

If he plays option 1 with just the one sitter then I think it has to be Lucas or Allen in there, Can is worth a look but I also feel he is more suited to a. Ire forward thinking midfield role. But I guess we don't know that unless he plays a few games in he DM spot. Interesting to see what Brendan has in kind for e German.

Would Milner and Henderson be able to do the job or do they have to be specialists?

This is a mistake that Brendan (and others) have made and will continue to make over and over again: just because Hendo is a central minded player with a good work rate does not mean he is a good DM by any means whatsoever. He's an excellent box-to-box man if you ask me (and Milner will be as well) but he needs to be supported by someone who knows what they're doing that can protect the back four consistently. I guess it's a specialist, but in my opinion it's a completely different position.

Until we use someone like that, I really don't think we'll see any serious improvements in our defense with our current CB pairings. The numbers are there to prove it with Lucas. We can buy attacking midfielders until we've got enough to field five squads with but without efforts to get our GA stat down, we'll continue to struggle to achieve our objectives.

Lovren at fault for the goal caught out ball watchign Sakho would have got touch tight and at least made a tackle or stood directly in his way. but apart from that we see to be improving as a unit but we've not had any real test this pre-season maybe that's the plan so we dont burn out our suffer any mental defeats whislt getting or phys in. Start our next game with what BR wants to use for stoke game and get them a good 70min before replaceing those who've been on pre-seaon tour with the U21 players.

This is a joke of a post.

This is 100% about fitness.

Has nothing to do with defining a system of play. It's clearly for getting players some game time at game speed to get them ready for the real season.

It's amazing how people can make a comment about how we are going to play this season seeing as how our three most important players aren't even involved yet.

If pre season was 100% about fitness, we could just stay home and play any of the 100 teams available, AND use the top of the line facilities we have (facing much better teams than the ones we have played). No competitive matches, travelling half around the globe and back, for what?

Was hoping this year we set aside everything and focus on a pre season that was actually about hard training, triple shifts and serious rivals.

Our pre season is 100% about profit.