Are we learning to defend?

Thought I'd create a new topic on this, as there are signs we might be turning a corner with our defending.

I'm not saying that just because we have kept 3 clean sheets in a row. ( In fact we've carried a bit of luck in doing that, and nothing wrong with a bit of luck.) But I was particularly impressed by our defending against Arsenal.

I was watching our back line as the Arse subjected it to a fair bit of pressure.
Over the past 3 years when teams have done that, it has basically been panic stations back there. But we held our line really well. We didnt collapse back on top of Mignolet like usual ( people slag Mignolet for being sh*t on crosses, but it cant have helped him having to come through half of our players and half of the opposition to try and get something on every cross.) Even the bit of luck we got with Ramsey's offside - how often have we even felt confident enough to try and play people offside in the recent past? How often have our back 4 been prepared to stay up around the 18 yard line under pressure?

Defensive organistion has been Brendan's achilles heel since he's been here. Thats been obvious for a long time. I was one of the one's harping on about a defensive coach for the last 2 years. One swallow doesnt make a summer, but it genuinely looked to me like we had proper defensive organistion last night.  ( Under Kenny, I though Skrtel was the best CB in the league, after Kompany. He hasnt looked that since, but he looked it again last night - he was really excellent. Even Lovren played well. )

Obviously 2 full backs who are defensively sound kind of helps, but I think there was a bit more to it than that. If Brendan now has people around him who can coach a defence, then it can make a massive difference to our chances. Brendan has shown that he can get us playing well on the attacking side, and it can only help our attackers if they don't feel they need to score 3 or 4 goals to win games.

It also helps our entire game, in my opinion, if the defensive line can squeeze higher up the pitch, which we might be starting to develop the basis for doing.

So - are we learning to defend? A few games coming up that should put us to the test, but promising signs.

Doesn't look like it

Doesn't look like it

Wasn't that last season

Wasn't that last season

Looks like it to me Scott.

The geek has been on a rage since the captaincy meltdown...probably not seeing clearly at the moment; too much Citeh love in his heart right now.

Learning to defend?

Sort of implies our defenders are some sort of amateurs and have never heard if this defending malarkey before.

It's simply down to a decent shield in front of the defence supplied by midfielders who are not letting opposition players simply waltz through, also with at least 1 full back staying back and not leaving the CB's overloaded looking at 2 v 2 or even 3 v 2 situations.

Doesn't look like it

They are last seasons stats you moron.

I know we.were all joking about this but does anyone reckon O Driscoll and Ljinders have helped with the defensive organisation, or is BR adapting and becoming more pragmatic with his playing systems? Perhaps a bit of both, more.ideas from O Driscoll/Ljinders and more pragmatism from BR

They are last seasons stats you moron.

damn calm down, i thought that was from this season. Do u have a life?

damn calm down, i thought that was from this season. Do u have a life?

Yes it's a life in which I support Liverpool FC.

And you?

damn calm down, i thought that was from this season. Do u have a life?

We barely let anyone had a shot toward our goal during the last three games. Let alone 12 shots a result of mistakes made by our two CBs. Proves that are watching different games than us.

We barely let anyone had a shot toward our goal during the last three games. Let alone 12 shots a result of mistakes made by our two CBs. Proves that are watching different games than us.

Exactly.

I know we.were all joking about this but does anyone reckon O Driscoll and Ljinders have helped with the defensive organisation, or is BR adapting and becoming more pragmatic with his playing systems? Perhaps a bit of both, more.ideas from O Driscoll/Ljinders and more pragmatism from BR

I think it must be a combination of the two mate but I have got no doubt that the new coaching staff have had some serious input and at the same time the manager appears to have softened his principles and is now willing to do what is needed to win rather than playing 'our way' first and winning 2nd. Love what I have seen from us defensively thus far this season. Two full backs who can actually defend and work their socks off and midfielders who all mark, track and tackle.

We have always known how to defend - the question is finding the right balance of defending and attacking.

Plenty on here were pointing out how we needed a "defence coach" like Steve Clarke ignoring the fact that Brendan managed more clean sheets than Kenny and Clarke with his shoestring budget Swansea side.

One of the major changes, apart from the midfield shield, has been the mentality of the fullbacks. As Gomez is more inclined to hang back when Clyne goes upfield it means Lovren is less exposed which has allowed him to settle into the side more.

We are finally settling into Brendan's original gameplan which is to restrict chances to long shots on goal which, as anyone who has watched Mignolet knows, is one of his strengths.

Once Firmino gets into his pressing game fully then things will improve further.

No.
We just went out and bought two boss fullbacks.
Nice.

I always thought that our swashbuckling, pass and move style left us completely out of shape on occasions. It was like someone doing a mad un-choreographed dance they  basically made up on the fly which left them dangling on a ledge with no room to move.
I think the lack of mad movement and a more direct target man has calmed things down and players are no longer way out of position.
That's what's changed .... of course I could be completely mistaken.

I always thought that our swashbuckling, pass and move style left us completely out of shape on occasions. It was like someone doing a mad un-choreographed dance they  basically made up on the fly which left them dangling on a ledge with no room to move.
I think the lack of mad movement and a more direct target man has calmed things down and players are no longer way out of position.
That's what's changed .... of course I could be completely mistaken.

I agree this is partly the case - the starting position of the full backs is a bit deeper than before. And while both full backs would often maraud forward, now when one does it, the other tends to sit back a bit more.

We have always known how to defend - the question is finding the right balance of defending and attacking.

Plenty on here were pointing out how we needed a "defence coach" like Steve Clarke ignoring the fact that Brendan managed more clean sheets than Kenny and Clarke with his shoestring budget Swansea side.

One of the major changes, apart from the midfield shield, has been the mentality of the fullbacks. As Gomez is more inclined to hang back when Clyne goes upfield it means Lovren is less exposed which has allowed him to settle into the side more.

We are finally settling into Brendan's original gameplan which is to restrict chances to long shots on goal which, as anyone who has watched Mignolet knows, is one of his strengths.

Once Firmino gets into his pressing game fully then things will improve further.

The idea of getting Steve Clarke in never made sense anyhow - his teams liked to defend deeper than ours (despite us defending pretty deep last night) but also there was a lack of emphasis with him on playing the ball out from back. Brendan still wants his defenders to get forward when given the chance - see Lovren at Stoke just before Coutinho scored for example, that would never happen with Steve Clarke.

He was completely on a different wavelength to Brendan coaching wise and it would never have worked.

Doesn't look like it

Idiot, it says 2014/15. Does your stupidity know no bounds?

Doesn't look like it

So quick to criticise the team you didn't even bother to read the picture properly.

We've definitely improved defensively and 3 clean sheets from 3 games proves it.

Lets hope it continues.

No.
We just went out and bought two boss fullbacks.
Nice.

This!

They've made such a huge difference to our game. The gaps between the back 4 have narrowed whereas last season Johnson and Moreno were getting dragged out of position and it left holes in-between each defensive pairing.

Idiot, it says 2014/15. Does your stupidity know no bounds?

Stupidity is the only thing he knows. Apparently Gerrard won nothing before becoming captain

Should maybe look at it differently, what is different this year so far.

1) The manager & coaches are focused on sorting the defence out
2) We have a settled back 4 for now, pre season and 3 league games with the same defence
3) The new full backs are not glen johnson
4) The MF are offering a bit more protection
5) We are now getting rid of the ball quicker if under pressure, no passing around 18 yard box for sake of it

something i've noticed more these last few games is he back four touching hands to maintain the backline and i guess to know exactly where everyone is

seems like a basic training drill but seems to work

bit gay but. .

Doesn't look like it

I think you've earned a custom title.
Enjoy.

We closed the space down fast and gave Arsenal less space and time to work on in the 2nd half. If we out in a few early tackles here and there to nullify the threat before the ball gets into our box would be perfect. We'll be very very difficult to break down. Next is to work on swiftly switching from defence to attack.

Should maybe look at it differently, what is different this year so far.

1) The manager & coaches are focused on sorting the defence out
2) We have a settled back 4 for now, pre season and 3 league games with the same defence
3) The new full backs are not glen johnson
4) The MF are offering a bit more protection
5) We are now getting rid of the ball quicker if under pressure, no passing around 18 yard box for sake of it

6) Stevie is not sitting in front of the defence.

I got a lot of stick last season for pointing out what a problem he was causing us - unable to press reliably, difficulty tracking back, letting quick youngsters burn past and slow to recover leaving big gaps between the midfield and defensive line - whaddayaknow - replace him with Milner and we look a completely different prospect.

6) Stevie is not sitting in front of the defence.

I got a lot of stick last season for pointing out what a problem he was causing us - unable to press reliably, difficulty tracking back, letting quick youngsters burn past and slow to recover leaving big gaps between the midfield and defensive line - whaddayaknow - replace him with Milner and we look a completely different prospect.

I have said something similair, stevie should have been further forward last season, the so called quarterback role, does not work in the EPL, we got too easily over ran.

I know we.were all joking about this but does anyone reckon O Driscoll and Ljinders have helped with the defensive organisation, or is BR adapting and becoming more pragmatic with his playing systems? Perhaps a bit of both, more.ideas from O Driscoll/Ljinders and more pragmatism from BR

Yeah, I think its a bit of both myself.

The new fullbacks are definitely helping, as I said, and I do think that Milner is harder to run past than Stevie was last year as well.
But where I think there has been a change in the coaching is that we look to be holding our line a lot better - higher up around the 18 yard line when the opposition are applying pressure. This is hard to do and has to be coached well to be done effectively.
To what extent thats down to the new coaches or Brendan who knows, but its definitely a welcome sign.

6) Stevie is not sitting in front of the defence.I got a lot of stick last season for pointing out what a problem he was causing us - unable to press reliably, difficulty tracking back, letting quick youngsters burn past and slow to recover leaving big gaps between the midfield and defensive line - whaddayaknow - replace him with Milner and we look a completely different prospect.

Maybe the skipper wouldn't have struggled so much if the things that have been implemented this year (ie. a better defensive shape with an emphasis on being compact, 2 decent full-backs and not committing to making the pitch so big) had been in place last year?

It's not quite as straightforward as you have suggested.

I'm surprised no one has bumped this after Saturdays effort.

Not seen the game as I was 39,000 feet in the sky. Shocked when I saw the result, but I guess no, no we're not.

I have said something similair, stevie should have been further forward last season, the so called quarterback role, does not work in the EPL, we got too easily over ran.

you mean the role Brendan designed so he could play until he was fourty.

We were learning but then we forgot again.

They are still learning as a unit and we have looked well tighter and more disciplined, coaching has improved that aspect and it's an ongoing thing, it won't happen straight away and stick, I know BR has been here for years, I'm thinking of his new right side men instilling some level of concentration and organisation at the back.
The flaw is we have flawed CB's who are prone to brain farts at any given moment.

Depends if we are including Lovren in this?

No.
We just went out and bought two boss fullbacks.
Nice.

This kind of still applies.
Because Skrtel and Lovren seem to have gone back to type.

no leadership at the back is the real issue, Carra made Skrtel a decent CB now he's gone the cracks are showing. the sooner we replace Skrtel and Lovren the better. to be honest i was hoping Skrtel would have gone this summer so Sakho came in and Lovren went RCB at least then we would start seeing Ilori or Gomez as real competition for a CB slot but i think BR will use both of them as LB and RB which is a shame. Playing people out of position is daft but BR likes this "versitile" player which is daft as you buy a CB to play CB not LB or RB.

Are we learning to defend?

 

Please, somebody lock this up. I can't take it.

 

I think I'll lock this thread for now.

Maybe we can start a new one when we don't concede 12 goals in 6 games.