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      Older fans v younger fans

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      littleface
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      Older fans v younger fans
      Aug 28, 2015 11:08:24 pm
      I first saw Liverpool play in 1978, my brother took me to Anfield  and it was not the actual game i remember vividly, but the atmosphere.

      When you are young, you want to belong to your older generations world.
      Football can do this to you in a way you can never imagine. You are accepted by a family of all ages and ilk.

      Now i have watched truly great teams and been spoilt at a young age on football , that , made me feel that this is the norm. At one point in my late teens, i actually believed that we had a right to our success.

      Even though i watched team after team , player after player, somehow always come up with the goods. I now know i never really appreciated just how much hard work and planning actually went into maintaining our dominance .

      I took it for granted.

      After watching our slow and horrible demise ( coupled with our greatest enemies rise)  I started to truly appreciate what we had. But i also grew to appreciate the teams who took over our mantle, without ill feeling.

      My partisan hatred of rival teams started to mellow, and i saw more and more faults in the poor quality players who played for our club.

      I never rated Rafa Benitez and got slated by a lot of my friends for saying it. I especially got slated by younger fans who, IMO, had grown sick of hearing older talk of European glory without having any stories of their own .

      Now, THEY, had one of the greatest European stories in history and Rafa had gave it to them. He was a god.

      Yet i found that later, a lot of older fans were being slated for saying we were lucky , or that although it was a great result, A poor team had got extremely lucky.
      Having watched truly great players , i am surprised at how some younger fans  think average players should be awarded hero status for nothing more than running around alot.

      Is this a case of older fans standards being to high, or younger fans desperate to have their own heroes , building mediocre players up above their station?
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #1: Aug 29, 2015 12:25:24 am

      I never rated Rafa Benitez and got slated by a lot of my friends for saying it. I especially got slated by younger fans who, IMO, had grown sick of hearing older talk of European glory without having any stories of their own .

      Now, THEY, had one of the greatest European stories in history and Rafa had gave it to them. He was a god.


      That's all very well, but just a word of warning to the anti-Rodgers brigade - for those who wanted Rafa out, well they sure got their wish.

      And then in came Hodgson.

      So if you want the same for Brendan, be very careful for what you wish for. Like I said, apart from Klopp, there's no other stand out option - and of course, there's no guarantee Klopp would want to come.

      I don't buy into all this old fans v young fans debate - we've seen plenty of that bullshit on this forum as it is. Football is already tribal enough as it is without some bullshitters dividing supporters of the same club, I mean come on, its not some political party. Fans who belittle any achievement in the clubs history aren't fans of the club. We all want the same for Liverpool FC - we may have different ideas about how to do it, but at the end of the day, we all want Liverpool back to the top of the perch. But for fans to have a problem with success - that really is the height of WUMmery.
      « Last Edit: Aug 29, 2015 05:34:33 am by Son Of A Gun »
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #2: Aug 29, 2015 12:28:45 am
      Interesting call, Littleface my friend.  Sounds like you and I are of a similar vintage.

      I agree with much of what you say.  Seems like all you need to do to be a 'genius', a 'legend' or a 'hero' these days is to put in a shift that gets noticed by the pundits on MOTD, or to score one fancy goal in a big televised game.  Rather than the younger generation of LFC fans, I would blame the shameless marketing of the Prem and football in general, which skews everything out of proportion and creates gods from false idols, in whose name the innocent and the gullible are drawn to squander their hard earned cash at the alter of fandom. 

      In an age of ruthless and hollow commercialisation of everything that once had real substance, the modern fan is no longer a sound connoisseur of heart, soul, courage and footballing expertise, but a sacrificial lamb whose bleeding wallet only feeds the empty mythology and who is then helplessly embroiled in the maelstrom of utter toss that passes as sound judgement in so much discussion of our game and our club.  We are doomed to trot out the same platitudes and clichés, the same 3rd hand opinions, as our masters in the Media.  For they are the new gods and the temple of Bill Shankly et al has been smited.  Only the True Supporter can save us now.  Thus endeth the lesson.   :f_tongueincheek: :angel:
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #3: Aug 29, 2015 12:46:45 am
      A poor team had got extremely lucky? Erm...when you come back from 3-0 down against one of the best sides in Europe, luck doesn't come into it.

      I don't know who these 'older fans' you talk of are but they are sure as hell are complete 110% bullshitters. You sure you're not hanging out with Chelsea fans littleface?

      I mean really, the shitstream that comes out of peoples thinking is uber incredible. I'm off to bed - not entertaining sh*te like that. Belittling the greatest night this club and indeed I have ever had? No Siree f**king Bob.
      « Last Edit: Aug 29, 2015 12:57:58 am by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #4: Aug 29, 2015 12:59:13 am
      He blasphemes!
      American Red
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #5: Aug 29, 2015 02:06:05 am
      This thread should be titled Legitimate Fans vs. WUMs and anyone who's been active knows exactly what side you (and your most likely completely false tale) fall on.

      Pretty sure that any actual fan of our club was absolutely equally elated for all of the finals that they were fortunate enough to witness in real time regardless of age or dynasty. Honestly doubt you actually were there for that though.

      This actually occurring battle that I speak of, fans vs. WUMs, has been fought far too much lately.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #6: Aug 29, 2015 04:25:55 am
      We could have

      older fans vs. younger
      Scouse vs. English
      English vs. rest of world
      Old English vs. youger vs rest of world

      Or we could just all be Liverpool supporters.

      Another divisive post, though not surprised considering where it came from
      crouchinho
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #7: Aug 29, 2015 04:42:18 am
      In the words of Aubrey Plaza;

      "F**k you old people."
      fishpie
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #8: Aug 29, 2015 05:06:56 am
      Went to my first match in the 70's but we haven't got the coaching staff (scouts too) we had at that point in time, we aren't entitled to anything but should expect the club to do everything in their power to get us there again.
      Don't get the old v young or it's Rafa's fault.
      Different era and I'm not going to act like a spoilt juvenile geriatric brat on here having digs all the time just because the team were kings once.
      I get pissed off but overall all we can do is go with the flow and see how it works out.
      Gill95
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #9: Aug 29, 2015 05:55:24 am
      I first saw Liverpool play in 1978, my brother took me to Anfield  and it was not the actual game i remember vividly, but the atmosphere.

      When you are young, you want to belong to your older generations world.
      Football can do this to you in a way you can never imagine. You are accepted by a family of all ages and ilk.

      Now i have watched truly great teams and been spoilt at a young age on football , that , made me feel that this is the norm. At one point in my late teens, i actually believed that we had a right to our success.

      Even though i watched team after team , player after player, somehow always come up with the goods. I now know i never really appreciated just how much hard work and planning actually went into maintaining our dominance .

      I took it for granted.

      After watching our slow and horrible demise ( coupled with our greatest enemies rise)  I started to truly appreciate what we had. But i also grew to appreciate the teams who took over our mantle, without ill feeling.

      My partisan hatred of rival teams started to mellow, and i saw more and more faults in the poor quality players who played for our club.

      I never rated Rafa Benitez and got slated by a lot of my friends for saying it. I especially got slated by younger fans who, IMO, had grown sick of hearing older talk of European glory without having any stories of their own .

      Now, THEY, had one of the greatest European stories in history and Rafa had gave it to them. He was a god.

      Yet i found that later, a lot of older fans were being slated for saying we were lucky , or that although it was a great result, A poor team had got extremely lucky.
      Having watched truly great players , i am surprised at how some younger fans  think average players should be awarded hero status for nothing more than running around alot.

      Is this a case of older fans standards being to high, or younger fans desperate to have their own heroes , building mediocre players up above their station?
      A team is extremely lucky if it plays sh*t but scores a rather odd goal or a referee makes a wrong decision (wrong offside,wrong penalty).


      Liverpool 3 - 3 AC Milan 2005 UEFA Champions league final.

      Liverpool is down by 3 goals at half time.

      Second half starts.

      Gerrard scores a tremendous goal with a header - luck? I guess not.

      Then Smicer scores another screamer against Dida - luck? I guess not.

      Liverpool gets a penalty - Wrong decision by Ref? No,therefore luck can be cancelled out again.

      After that everyone raised there bar which they should as they have themselves reached the CL final bar any luck playing against the worlds best team at that time.

      You never rated Rafa.A manager who in his first season had won us the CL cup against the World XI and FA cup the next whilst also securing a CL place every year bar last.

      A manager who took us to top rank in European rankings.

      A manager having a fairly less budget compared to its rivals assembled a first XI as strong as any other team in Europe which included the likes of Reina,Arbeloa,Alonso,Torres,Mashcerano,Aurelio,Kuyt,Agger(only included his own buys).

      A manager who fought for the club and the fans against Hicks and Gillet.

      A manager who was probably the only one that got under the nose of Fergie.

      The list goes on and on.

      Fair Dinkum,I believe you are a genuine supporter rather than a troll  :f_whistle:
       
      Chico Banderas
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #10: Aug 29, 2015 09:02:06 am
      This thread should be titled Legitimate Fans vs. WUMs and anyone who's been active knows exactly what side you (and your most likely completely false tale) fall on.

      Pretty sure that any actual fan of our club was absolutely equally elated for all of the finals that they were fortunate enough to witness in real time regardless of age or dynasty. Honestly doubt you actually were there for that though.

      This actually occurring battle that I speak of, fans vs. WUMs, has been fought far too much lately.

      But both older and younger fans can also be both "legitimate and WUM" fans.. lolol


      Its just another mind set that allows one set of fans to dissociate themselves from other fans..


      To a WUM, you yourself is a WUM..lolo.. Your opinion can place you in either group at any time.. lolol
       
      HScRed1
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #11: Aug 29, 2015 09:38:18 am
      sh*te thread...........there is only LFC Fans.......
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #12: Aug 29, 2015 09:42:32 am
      What a deliberately divisive topic, trying to cause division where none is needed or exists. Whilst we may have differing opinions, we all want Liverpool FC to be successful.
      redkop63
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #13: Aug 29, 2015 11:03:47 am
      I thought it was a good post by Face, +1, he's simply stating his opinion, no need to go into a brawl with Face, eventhough I don't quite agree with the Rafa part.

      "Is this a case of older fans standards being to high," .....

      It is indeed because we have seen what the teams can do through the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s and 2010s.   
      « Last Edit: Aug 29, 2015 11:44:38 am by redkop63 »
      clint_call01
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #14: Aug 29, 2015 11:52:29 am
      I'm 24, been watching Liverpool for 16 years because my father had me watch lfc games at 8 years old, I only watched live game at Anfield once; I'm Maltese; not English; not a scouser;

      BUT F**k no! Noone will ever try to tell me I'm not a real Liverpool fan and supporter because I'm young or I'm not from Liverpool.

      sh*t thread!
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #15: Aug 29, 2015 11:59:25 am
      I first saw Liverpool play in 1978, my brother took me to Anfield  and it was not the actual game i remember vividly, but the atmosphere.

      When you are young, you want to belong to your older generations world.
      Football can do this to you in a way you can never imagine. You are accepted by a family of all ages and ilk.

      Now i have watched truly great teams and been spoilt at a young age on football , that , made me feel that this is the norm. At one point in my late teens, i actually believed that we had a right to our success.

      So you're really a Manc ?

      I never rated Rafa Benitez and got slated by a lot of my friends for saying it.

      Defo Manc, they didn't rate Benitez either.

      :D

      mcarz
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #16: Aug 29, 2015 12:20:30 pm

      I never rated Rafa Benitez and got slated by a lot of my friends for saying it. I especially got slated by younger fans who, IMO, had grown sick of hearing older talk of European glory without having any stories of their own .

      Yet i found that later, a lot of older fans were being slated for saying we were lucky , or that although it was a great result, A poor team had got extremely lucky.

      Having watched truly great players , i am surprised at how some younger fans  think average players should be awarded hero status for nothing more than running around alot.

      Is this a case of older fans standards being to high, or younger fans desperate to have their own heroes , building mediocre players up above their station?

      First of all, I don't think it's the best thread ever created. Many people will and have seen it as a way to divide the fan-base instead of thinking of it as a whole.

      Why did you never rate Rafa? That seems a strange thing considering the team he assembled, the fact that he lead us to a Champions League title in his first season, won the FA Cup in his second and won La Liga twice in a row (beating off Barcelona and Real Madrid etc. To not rate somebody with such achievements in the slightest is crazy.

      How did we get extremely lucky in the Champions League? Luck plays in a part in any achievement but only a little, the best team always wins in the end. We played some of the best - if not the actual best - teams in Europe and conquered them all. We dominated Leverkusen, beat Juventus who had: Ibrahimovic, Cannavaro, Buffon, Chiellini, Thuram, Nedved, Camoranesi and Trezeguet, beat Chelsea who were spending big at the time and came back against a Milan team consisting of: Dida, Cafu, Stam, Nest, Maldini, Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, Kaka, Crespo and Shevchenko. That team was literally unreal. You don't beat them with just luck. You ignore determination, team work, grit, work rate, passion etc. etc.

      I genuinely don't think I want to answer that last point of yours. I consider myself a younger fan, been a fan since I was 5 (19 years) and I don't think I build many players up above their 'station'. I have high hopes for certain players and expect them to reach certain levels or goals and I'm sure that's the same for these other younger fans.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #17: Aug 29, 2015 12:48:04 pm
      What about the fans who grew up in the 50s when we were a second division side? Do they think, F***ing hell we're doing some great sh*t right now because they saw us at our lowest?

      I first saw Liverpool play in 1978, my brother took me to Anfield

      Congratulations. Not all of us were fortunate enough to be born in that time period, it's not something we can alter.

      and it was not the actual game i remember vividly, but the atmosphere.

      My first game was in 95 and the atmosphere was just as good as anything in the 70s/80s.

      When you are young, you want to belong to your older generations world.

      No you don't. Most young people actually rebel against their elders, that's how life evolves.

      Football can do this to you in a way you can never imagine. You are accepted by a family of all ages and ilk.

      Surely this entire thread is the opposite of this sentence. You're saying we're all accepted regardless of our age, yet you're questioning whether young fans understand the game as well as older fans.

      Now i have watched truly great teams and been spoilt at a young age on football , that , made me feel that this is the norm.

      That's because it was the norm. "I've been here during the bad times too, we came second once." Wembley was affectionately known as Anfield South. Winning trophies was the norm for this club.

      At one point in my late teens, i actually believed that we had a right to our success.

      That's just daft. Nobody has a right to anything, they have to work for it and that's what was installed into the club's fabric.

      Even though i watched team after team , player after player, somehow always come up with the goods. I now know i never really appreciated just how much hard work and planning actually went into maintaining our dominance .

      You just assumed we turned up without prior work?

      After watching our slow and horrible demise ( coupled with our greatest enemies rise)

      When did Everton rise?

      I started to truly appreciate what we had. But i also grew to appreciate the teams who took over our mantle, without ill feeling.

      Taken what mantle? We're still the greatest club in the world, we're still the most successful club in England so what mantle have they taken?

      My partisan hatred of rival teams started to mellow, and i saw more and more faults in the poor quality players who played for our club.

      So you paid more attention to Liverpool than other teams, well F***ing done. That's what a Liverpool fan should be doing.

      I never rated Rafa Benitez and got slated by a lot of my friends for saying it.

      Well that's plainly obvious why.

      I especially got slated by younger fans who, IMO, had grown sick of hearing older talk of European glory without having any stories of their own .

      Well that's a load of bollocks because we did have European stories, even before Rafa arrived. There was the joy of 2001 for starters, telling tales of beating Roma, Porto, Barcelona and the final against Alaves. There's the night Gerard Houllier returned to the dugout in 2002 against Roma, one of the all-time great atmospheres in Anfield history. The complete F**k up against Leverkusen in the same year. The heartache of Basel in 03. The 6-3 against Sion in 96, which still ranks as one of my best European nights. So we did have stories to tell.

      Rafa Benitez simply gave us more stories to tell.

      As for growing sick of hearing of those from yesteryear, I don't know any fan who gets sick of hearing about our successes. I love hearing those stories.

      Now, THEY, had one of the greatest European stories in history and Rafa had gave it to them. He was a god.

      We had THE greatest European story.

      But Rafa Benitez didn't give us to us, Liverpool Football Club did. We were all in it together. Rafa set us up, the players put his plans into action and the fans enjoyed it along the way.

      Yet i found that later, a lot of older fans were being slated for saying we were lucky , or that although it was a great result, A poor team had got extremely lucky.

      Don't be so F***ing stupid.

      I know many fans who've been going the game from the 60s onwards and they've never said we were lucky, rather they talk about us winning our 5th European Cup. And this poor team, doesn't get lucky 15 times which is the amount of games we played in Europe that season. We won because we deserved to.

      Having watched truly great players , i am surprised at how some younger fans  think average players should be awarded hero status for nothing more than running around alot.

      Sammy Lee is a hero and he'll be the first to admit his job was just to run round. When we played Bayern Munich in the 81 European Cup semi, Sammy's job was solely to run after Rummenigge and the German hardly got a kick over two legs because of it. So it's not just "younger" fans who give hero status to players who just a lot.

      Also, a lot of "older" fans consider some of these modern day players who "run around a lot" to be heroes as well.

      Is this a case of older fans standards being to high, or younger fans desperate to have their own heroes , building mediocre players up above their station?

      It's a case of Liverpool fans supporting their F***ing club. Like we did in the 1800s right through to the modern day.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #18: Aug 29, 2015 12:50:24 pm


      I genuinely don't think I want to answer that last point of yours. I consider myself a younger fan, been a fan since I was 5 (19 years) and I don't think I build many players up above their 'station'. I have high hopes for certain players and expect them to reach certain levels or goals and I'm sure that's the same for these other younger fans.

      As a younger fan you will have seen Istanbul and the "Gerrard" FA Cup final .You will have seen us climb to Number one in Europe not sure how much different that was to 77 or 78 the difference may have been those team were developed from about 73 so I think this thread is a load of Manc bollox. 9 or 90 the passion is the same
      American Red
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #19: Aug 29, 2015 02:52:00 pm
      But both older and younger fans can also be both "legitimate and WUM" fans.. lolol


      Its just another mind set that allows one set of fans to dissociate themselves from other fans..


      To a WUM, you yourself is a WUM..lolo.. Your opinion can place you in either group at any time.. lolol

      Too philosophical for me that one. It's like WUMception...  :lmao:
      waltonl4
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #20: Aug 29, 2015 05:47:03 pm
      well after today the younger fans are going to age considerably quicker than the older ones
      Magillionare
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #21: Aug 29, 2015 05:58:08 pm
      I always have interesting debates about 'best' Liverpool teams with older lads. It's very hard because obviously the more modern players are 'better' realistically mainly due to advances in training and the equipment they use can even make them look better. Most of the time though we find a happy medium and that's why I think you're right, there are older fans and younger fans, of course there are. Don't really like the "THERE ARE ONLY LIVERPOOL FANS"... How dare he acknowledge age? Seriously come on. Now his Benitez stuff is pure gaff and I don't know what he means, but he's well within his rights to say there are older and younger fans.

      Now... The way I look at it is different maybe? But I think we need to acknowledge this 'age gap' because without the older fans I certainly wouldn't have known as much about the legends of the club. And not just the ones like Kenny that everyone knows about, the legends like Jimmy Case and Jan Molby who I may not have come to love so much without the older fans. And the younger fans like myself are here to make sure no one picks Rush over Suarez in their dream teams ;).
      Gill95
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      Re: Older fans v younger fans
      Reply #22: Aug 29, 2015 07:25:40 pm
      Yes we did get our wish. The days of losing at Wigan and Portsmouth had to stop. In came wins at home to Chelsea, a feat rendered completely impossible just 6 months earlier. We even managed a routine home win against Aston Villa, where we were thrashed the previous season, and a Herculean task nowadays.

      The European group was wrapped up with a game to spare, compared to going out of the European Cup the previous year with a game to spare. It's the only time I've ever seen calls for someone to be fired on the same night as winning a European group.

      No I wouldn't have him back. But then I wouldn't have the bloke he replaced back either. He had 6 years to win a league spending a zillion quid on superstars, Hodgson had 6 months spending peanuts on superduds. But their failure to bring it home is one of the few things they share here.
      :lmao:

      So this is how your brain works.

      Oh look someone defending Rafa!
      I better have my old rants ready.

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