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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      wellbuilt
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10718: Jan 23, 2017 09:04:19 am
      What do we do in the Summer when clubs "don't want to sell" us their players? I thought we came up against this sort of thing in practically every single transfer?

      i guess we aim for the Klavan and Karius of the world

      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10719: Jan 23, 2017 09:08:04 am
      What do we do in the Summer when clubs "don't want to sell" us their players? I thought we came up against this sort of thing in practically every single transfer?

      Indeed we had the same in Summer with Dahoud and Pulisic.

      What's makes the club think they can get somebody like Pulisic the following summer when his value in increasing.
      Makes no sense unless as most of suspect there is a ceiling of transfer fees and wages.

      Klopp has identified targets but the club can't deliver the players!

      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10720: Jan 23, 2017 09:09:48 am
      What did happen to Mahmoud Dahoud? He seemed a cert at one point.

      Our transfer dealings have been quite unimpressive, especially when you consider the club actually made a profit in the last summer transfer window.  :f_wah:

      Mane was a good purchase, and Matip for nothing is fantastic, but aside from that, I see precious little to get excited about.

      EDIT: That said, that's two very good purchases in two transfer windows. Looking at it like that, isn't that pretty good?

      I don't know what to think.
      bigmick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10721: Jan 23, 2017 09:14:10 am
      It just seems odd to me all this "teams don't want to sell us their best players" line, surely they never do? Ajax didn't advertise Luis Suarez in exchange and mart, West Ham weren't mad keen on letting Andy Carroll go with about half an hour of the window left.

      In the Summer, we didn't want to sell Luis ourselves (allegedly) or Sterling (ditto). I shouldn't think Hull wanted to sell Jake Livermore but they did, they didn't want to sell Robert Snodgrass but they would for the right money, as no doubt Sunderland would Defoe and Swansea Llorente. West Ham didn't want to sell Payet until someone turned his head, Chelsea didn't want to sell Oscar and don't want to sell Costa, the list goes on and on.

      Does any team ever "want to sell" their best players? This looks to me like PR bullshit.
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10722: Jan 23, 2017 09:17:38 am
      It just seems odd to me all this "teams don't want to sell us their best players" line, surely they never do? Ajax didn't advertise Luis Suarez in exchange and mart, West Ham weren't mad keen on letting Andy Carroll go with about half an hour of the window left.

      In the Summer, we didn't want to sell Luis ourselves (allegedly) or Sterling (ditto). I shouldn't think Hull wanted to sell Jake Livermore but they did, they didn't want to sell Robert Snodgrass but they would for the right money, as no doubt Sunderland would Defoe and Swansea Llorente. West Ham didn't want to sell Payet until someone turned his head, Chelsea didn't want to sell Oscar and don't want to sell Costa, the list goes on and on.

      Does any team ever "want to sell" their best players? This looks to me like PR bullshit.
      Surely then, whether January or August, it has to come down to if you pay enough, they'll come.

      But concerning the statement that "Teams do not want to sell their best players", I'd have to reply with, "But neither did we."

      Again though, the most frustrating part about all this is that we haven't really got a clue what is going on. Perhaps it's the stadium sucking up our money for the next few transfer windows. It would be nice to know; at least then we'd have a reason (assuming of course it really is a case of teams don't want to sell their best players).
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10723: Jan 23, 2017 09:23:52 am
      It just seems odd to me all this "teams don't want to sell us their best players" line, surely they never do? Ajax didn't advertise Luis Suarez in exchange and mart, West Ham weren't mad keen on letting Andy Carroll go with about half an hour of the window left.

      In the Summer, we didn't want to sell Luis ourselves (allegedly) or Sterling (ditto). I shouldn't think Hull wanted to sell Jake Livermore but they did, they didn't want to sell Robert Snodgrass but they would for the right money, as no doubt Sunderland would Defoe and Swansea Llorente. West Ham didn't want to sell Payet until someone turned his head, Chelsea didn't want to sell Oscar and don't want to sell Costa, the list goes on and on.

      Does any team ever "want to sell" their best players? This looks to me like PR bullshit.

      So to get this straight Mick you're saying Jürgen is lying for the benefit of FSG, would that be fair to say?
      Rush
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10724: Jan 23, 2017 09:33:22 am
      Liverpool v Chelsea (31 Jan) Liverpool win
      Chelsea v Arsenal (4 Feb) Arsenal win
      Hull v Liverpool (4 Feb) Liverpool win

      We could be 4 points behind Chelsea by 4 Feb.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10725: Jan 23, 2017 09:41:15 am
      Liverpool v Chelsea (31 Jan) Liverpool win
      Chelsea v Arsenal (4 Feb) Arsenal win
      Hull v Liverpool (4 Feb) Liverpool win

      We could be 4 points behind Chelsea by 4 Feb.

      With any F***ing luck Brother.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10726: Jan 23, 2017 09:47:58 am
      It just seems odd to me all this "teams don't want to sell us their best players" line, surely they never do? Ajax didn't advertise Luis Suarez in exchange and mart, West Ham weren't mad keen on letting Andy Carroll go with about half an hour of the window left.

      In the Summer, we didn't want to sell Luis ourselves (allegedly) or Sterling (ditto). I shouldn't think Hull wanted to sell Jake Livermore but they did, they didn't want to sell Robert Snodgrass but they would for the right money, as no doubt Sunderland would Defoe and Swansea Llorente. West Ham didn't want to sell Payet until someone turned his head, Chelsea didn't want to sell Oscar and don't want to sell Costa, the list goes on and on.

      Does any team ever "want to sell" their best players? This looks to me like PR bullshit.

      For what it's worth Mick I do agree, even though I have expressed reservations about how January is more difficult than a summer window

      Quickly here's why
      Teams don't ideally want to sell their best players in a shortened window which could affect their season and if the do sell they only have a few weeks to replace, it's ok thinking they have x amount of time before the window opens to put a deal in place but why would they if they don't want to sell their player in the first place? Would they put deals in place on the off chance they have to sell a player in their squad they don't want to?
      The teams at the highest level (where we should aim) don't that often sell their players this month

      Where you talk about Suarez, there was circumstances surrounding that that drove that deal, Suarez admitted himself he didn't want to leave Ajax that window as he was captain and wanted to win the league (something he didn't do there) they won it and he went back and was given a medal, he even phoned the team the day before the title winning game to give them a team talk
      Then did Newcastle want to sell us Carroll? No until they got what they could keep a straight face offer wise (that's the key which is probably what fsg don't want to repeat which is why we never do business in this window anymore)

      The difference with a summer window is there is 3 months for clubs to replace and start again without the risk of wrecking an ongoing season(Defoe with Sunderland, they sell him at market value then that's their goals gone, almost resigning themselves to the drop for a few quid, could they replace guaranteed goals in their situation? What good goal scorer goes there where they find themselves? So they are likely to dig their heels in and not sell)so even though you won't get a bargain on a particular player the willingness to allow a deal through is there

      Deals can be forced, players (more often than not behind the scenes) will make it clear they want out which forces their clubs hand ala Payet and more close to home Torres but leaves a bitter taste all round
      In the summer before, at the type we are targeting their is often unspoken deals, give us another season and you can go next summer, it's happened with us before. They don't tend then to break that in the January

      The two you mention of ours, we may well didn't want to sell but a willingness was ultimately there for a couple of slightly different reasons, Sterling, again like Payet/Torres the player was clear he wanted out, his agent constantly fueled it and made it happen (similar to Ashley Cole from Arsenal to Chelsea)
      Suarez, it's naive to think that so soon after the Arsenal summer a new deal was signed that it wasn't inevitable from there

      When you talk about the others you mention
      Hull with Snodgrass and Livermore
      I was talking to a mate who works for the same company as ne who is from Hull and he said that the club wanted Livermore out for a while,  since his drug thing, who knows but it adds to the willingness for that one
      Snodgrass? I bet they don't want to sell but he is saying he wants out, he is forcing it a bit, maybe more behind the scenes and he only has 6 months on his current deal, that may force a willingness. But the have a new manager and have won a couple,  he may well stay as the club's so far haven't sufficiently turned his head seemingly as he wants to move to Celtic and they want to wait til the summer, if they came in and he wanted gone?  A transfer request may well go in to force it

      Sunderland stated west ham could offer what they like Defoe isn't for sale, now you could say that if they offered 50m rather than 6 they may well get him but they won't.  Sunderland know they cant replace his goals this window so don't want their best player to go.
      Llorente, this is where it does get interesting because if there is genuine interest from Chelsea that will turn his head and being at a club like Swansea he will probably force it

      What I'm trying to say is Alot comes down to the player forcing it or the buying club offering stupid money

      Now we don't seem willing to offer stupid money and the players we are after aren't at clubs like Swansea or Sunderland that make them think, know what this may be the only time I get to go to that type of club again,  I'm forcing this. We are going for players at good clubs who know that offers will be there again in the summer, it's not a one off and they can wait

      But again if we got in the players ear and offered them silly money? They'd more likely force it, or if we offered daft cash the club's may well be willing

      Our prudency is the key factor I'm guessing ultimately and that's frustrating and frankly the ultimate issue but there is no doubt that January isn't as easy as the summer, maybe not in terms of ultimately what you pay (within maybe 20%  :confused-smiley-013:) but just the selling clubs willingness not to rip up their season

      There has to be major financial reasons for them or the player has to kick and scream for it

      It's more difficult that the summer but not impossible if you really want to. It seems we don't want to go that extra ultimately
      « Last Edit: Jan 23, 2017 10:15:47 am by Kopite78 »
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10727: Jan 23, 2017 09:54:50 am
      Liverpool v Chelsea (31 Jan) Liverpool win
      Chelsea v Arsenal (4 Feb) Arsenal win
      Hull v Liverpool (4 Feb) Liverpool win

      We could be 4 points behind Chelsea by 4 Feb.

      The scary thing is I'm more nervous about Hull than Chelsea.
      bigmick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10728: Jan 23, 2017 10:24:42 am
      So to get this straight Mick you're saying Jürgen is lying for the benefit of FSG, would that be fair to say?

      What an odd question Luke? I'm agreeing with Jürgen, (that's why I gave loads of examples of it), teams don't want to sell us their best players. How could anyone not agree with that, they never do do they?

      Where my gripe is, is that we really ought to have forseen the problems we're running into. Jürgen ought to have seen it coming and I think he's hugely at fault for not doing so*. The owners probably would have forseen it if they were bothered (I don't think they are, in the slightest) and so we're left with a squad which is so obviously understrength, and a league title challenge which is failing before our very eyes because of that reason.

      I think what we're also witnessing if we have the brains to look, is the slow and final death of the transfer committee. Jürgen is signalling it and talking about it (between the lines) and it's the one positive to come out of a very sorry episode. No doubt once we've established that Jurgens picks "aren't available" the committee are frantically suggesting Chris Brunt as a wide option, maybe even Chris Wood and Adama Traore, but when Jürgen says he isn't going to make transfers "for the sake of it" I think it's his way of saying "eff off" to them. He's saying if they aren't available now, then he'll wait. All well and good of course, but there's a danger that he won't get them eventually and in the meantime we're blowing a goodish chance of winning the league.

      The answer for me is simple, GO GET THE F****** PLAYERS HE WANTS, NOW!!! (although "now" is probably too late, we've already blown it IMHO).

      * You'll remember the contortionism you and your cohorts got into Luke trying to pretend you were right behind Rodgers and the "through clenched teeth" period? You won't get that off me, I'll be honest always. I think Jürgen has made a huge error this season by assuming he can go into the campaign with a squad as weak as we did. I said it before the season started and I make no apologies for saying it now. If it were Rodgers, you and "the lads" would be calling him an "FSG puppet", telling him to "grow a pair" to "stand up" to the owners and accusing him of "bullshitting". Jurgens crime is none of those IMHO, it's naivety only and I'm confident that being the intelligent man that he is, he won't do it again. Our job as fans is to read the writing on the wall though, when he wants a player but is told that player "isn't available" it simply means he isn't available at the price we're prepared to pay. FSG should back the manager.   
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10729: Jan 23, 2017 10:57:37 am
      'Liverpool stunned by clubs not wanting to sell best players shocker'
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10730: Jan 23, 2017 11:33:36 am
      What an odd question Luke? I'm agreeing with Jürgen, (that's why I gave loads of examples of it), teams don't want to sell us their best players. How could anyone not agree with that, they never do do they?

      So you think he's telling the truth, then which part is:

      Does any team ever "want to sell" their best players? This looks to me like PR bullshit.

      It seems to me you were suggesting (by the word "this") that he was indeed spinning some PR bullshit for the benefit of FSG, so how you find the question odd I'm unsure.

      As for:

      * You'll remember the contortionism you and your cohorts got into Luke trying to pretend you were right behind Rodgers and the "through clenched teeth" period? You won't get that off me, I'll be honest always. I think Jürgen has made a huge error this season by assuming he can go into the campaign with a squad as weak as we did. I said it before the season started and I make no apologies for saying it now. If it were Rodgers, you and "the lads" would be calling him an "FSG puppet", telling him to "grow a pair" to "stand up" to the owners and accusing him of "bullshitting". Jurgens crime is none of those IMHO, it's naivety only and I'm confident that being the intelligent man that he is, he won't do it again. Our job as fans is to read the writing on the wall though, when he wants a player but is told that player "isn't available" it simply means he isn't available at the price we're prepared to pay. FSG should back the manager.

      You really have got an incredible size chip on your shoulder about Rodgers mate that you simply must get off. It's such a shame this debate has to be regurgitated time and again, it's not healthy for you and it's certainly not healthy for the forum. I will, for clarity's sake and with hope that it helps you a little, remind you once more that I absolutely do not have cohorts and despite telling you this on numerous occasions you continue to suggest it. What I find amusing about this is what you believe my motive for lying about this might be and in what way would it benefit or hurt me if I did or didn't have cohorts. I honestly haven't the foggiest why you think this, perhaps you believe it's "PR bullshit".

      I'll also remind you that rather than "through gritted teeth" I was the first to say Rodgers was at odds with the transfer committee and indeed lobbied continuously for him to be given total control. This support wasn't "through gritted teeth" as you suggest it was in hope that we could get the club on the right path. He failed to get this for himself and continued to accept players he would then not play (likes of Alberto, Aspas, Markovic and indeed Bobby! ). In fact he oversaw the sale of possibly the best player in the world and replaced him with Rickie Lambert and Christian Benteke. Personally I am thankful this part of the debate has now been put to bed and every single player that has been bought since Jürgen's arrival has come with a purpose and clear intention. It's such a refreshing change from the past not to have to question whether each signing is one for the TC or one for Jürgen, all credit to Jürgen for that one.

      One thing I do have to pull you up on though Mick, you've been a great fan of accusing others of hypocrisy yet not so long ago you were ranting again seemingly trying to derive some justification about how TPM was accused of spunking £300m unfairly, but now you seem to suggest that the squad isn't full enough of quality. Well unfortunately Mick both can't be true and the fact of the matter is that Jürgen had to oversee a huge overhaul of the squad in the summer. Much of that 'quality' had to be shipped out and replaced. Now perhaps Jürgen has not quite got enough quality in the squad at his first attempt to win the league but for the first time in a long time we are moving in the right direction on and off the field (owners excluded). Just as a for instance, Brendan oversaw the end of a legend in Steven Gerrard, a guy by his own self admission never wanted to leave, never should have left, but thankfully that's another error of Brendan's that Jürgen has corrected this week and it's great to have him back home.

      What I suggest we should really do is, rather than pretend the Boss is spinning PR bullshit, actually listen to the boss. Jürgen has absolutely no motive to lie to us, he is not an up and coming manager who needs this job more than the job needs him. Jürgen had his choice to go absolutely anywhere in world football and his choice was to be managing our club and I'm willing to trust the the man 100%. Again, such a refreshing change.
      wellbuilt
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10731: Jan 23, 2017 12:30:04 pm
      Liverpool v Chelsea (31 Jan) Liverpool win
      Chelsea v Arsenal (4 Feb) Arsenal win
      Hull v Liverpool (4 Feb) Liverpool win

      We could be 4 points behind Chelsea by 4 Feb.

      people still do these things  :lmao:

      thought people stopped after we were constantly one player away from the league during the 90's

      we can and do loose matches against ANYONE.

      we hardly ever seem to take advantage of any opportunities and then settle for ' we would of been happy for our position before the season started' or 'we don't have the resources that other teams have' and many other coined sayings that will undoubtedly crop up.

      Dadorious
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10732: Jan 23, 2017 12:36:57 pm
      [quote author=bigmick link=topic=48146.msg2009482#msg2009482

      * You'll remember the contortionism you and your cohorts got into Luke trying to pretend you were right behind Rodgers and the "through clenched teeth" period? You won't get that off me, I'll be honest always. I think Jürgen has made a huge error this season by assuming he can go into the campaign with a squad as weak as we did. I said it before the season started and I make no apologies for saying it now. If it were Rodgers, you and "the lads" would be calling him an "FSG puppet", telling him to "grow a pair" to "stand up" to the owners and accusing him of "bullshitting". Jurgens crime is none of those IMHO, it's naivety only and I'm confident that being the intelligent man that he is, he won't do it again. Our job as fans is to read the writing on the wall though, when he wants a player but is told that player "isn't available" it simply means he isn't available at the price we're prepared to pay. FSG should back the manager.   
      [/quote]

      Wouldn't they also comment on his excessively white teeth, self portraits in the living room or his propensity to flip the odd triangle?!

      Didn't even quote the funniest part of your post, it was Chris Brunt.
      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10733: Jan 23, 2017 12:51:19 pm
      So you think he's telling the truth, then which part is:

      It seems to me you were suggesting (by the word "this") that he was indeed spinning some PR bullshit for the benefit of FSG, so how you find the question odd I'm unsure.

      As for:

      You really have got an incredible size chip on your shoulder about Rodgers mate that you simply must get off. It's such a shame this debate has to be regurgitated time and again, it's not healthy for you and it's certainly not healthy for the forum. I will, for clarity's sake and with hope that it helps you a little, remind you once more that I absolutely do not have cohorts and despite telling you this on numerous occasions you continue to suggest it. What I find amusing about this is what you believe my motive for lying about this might be and in what way would it benefit or hurt me if I did or didn't have cohorts. I honestly haven't the foggiest why you think this, perhaps you believe it's "PR bullshit".

      I'll also remind you that rather than "through gritted teeth" I was the first to say Rodgers was at odds with the transfer committee and indeed lobbied continuously for him to be given total control. This support wasn't "through gritted teeth" as you suggest it was in hope that we could get the club on the right path. He failed to get this for himself and continued to accept players he would then not play (likes of Alberto, Aspas, Markovic and indeed Bobby! ). In fact he oversaw the sale of possibly the best player in the world and replaced him with Rickie Lambert and Christian Benteke. Personally I am thankful this part of the debate has now been put to bed and every single player that has been bought since Jürgen's arrival has come with a purpose and clear intention. It's such a refreshing change from the past not to have to question whether each signing is one for the TC or one for Jürgen, all credit to Jürgen for that one.

      One thing I do have to pull you up on though Mick, you've been a great fan of accusing others of hypocrisy yet not so long ago you were ranting again seemingly trying to derive some justification about how TPM was accused of spunking £300m unfairly, but now you seem to suggest that the squad isn't full enough of quality. Well unfortunately Mick both can't be true and the fact of the matter is that Jürgen had to oversee a huge overhaul of the squad in the summer. Much of that 'quality' had to be shipped out and replaced. Now perhaps Jürgen has not quite got enough quality in the squad at his first attempt to win the league but for the first time in a long time we are moving in the right direction on and off the field (owners excluded). Just as a for instance, Brendan oversaw the end of a legend in Steven Gerrard, a guy by his own self admission never wanted to leave, never should have left, but thankfully that's another error of Brendan's that Jürgen has corrected this week and it's great to have him back home.

      What I suggest we should really do is, rather than pretend the Boss is spinning PR bullshit, actually listen to the boss. Jürgen has absolutely no motive to lie to us, he is not an up and coming manager who needs this job more than the job needs him. Jürgen had his choice to go absolutely anywhere in world football and his choice was to be managing our club and I'm willing to trust the the man 100%. Again, such a refreshing change.

      For added clarity for those who couldn't be arsed reading the article, preferring to knee jerk about "carpetbaggers" etc, Klopp stated that we had offered a premium, but the other clubs still wouldn't sell.
      So for anyone to state that "we won't pay the money" is wrong.

      It certainly didn't take long for the "stooge" sh*t to come creeping out.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10734: Jan 23, 2017 12:55:36 pm
      F**k I'm sure I posted here but think I accidentally deleted my post on my phone. Can't be arsed typing again on this tiny keyboard.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10735: Jan 23, 2017 01:15:10 pm
      For added clarity for those who couldn't be arsed reading the article, preferring to knee jerk about "carpetbaggers" etc, Klopp stated that we had offered a premium, but the other clubs still wouldn't sell.
      So for anyone to state that "we won't pay the money" is wrong.

      It certainly didn't take long for the "stooge" sh*t to come creeping out.

      But this is where it becomes subjective Swab and I can't understand people's insistence in being right or wrong

      Players don't walk around with a 'valuation' slapped on them, if youre buying a house it's been independently valued and you know what it's worth, it's up to you (within the parameters of your mortgage provider) to offer around that figure, if you really want it you offer a bit over

      A player doesn't have that, it's subjective to either the buyer or seller

      If for example we value Pulisic at 25m our premium maybe 30m.. even if Dortmund value Pulisic at 25m their premium may be 45m to do business this month

      Our and their 'premium' is way apart so we may feel we have offered a premium but they don't

      January whether we like it or not inflates that premium even more and again unlike a house there isnt windows to buy and different premiums at different times of the year

      There is no right or wrong as we don't know the facts

      Klopp has said we have bid for players

      I'll believe him

      Klopp has said we bid a premium

      Again I'll believe him but our valuation and the sellers valuation are obviously not being reached. I can take that at face value

      Again whichever side you believe I'm sure you can argue we aren't pushing enough and not backing the club or not being held to ransom

      Or somewhere in the middle

      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10736: Jan 23, 2017 01:21:09 pm
      But this is where it becomes subjective Swab and I can't understand people's insistence in being right or wrong

      Players don't walk around with a 'valuation' slapped on them, if youre buying a house it's been independently valued and you know what it's worth, it's up to you (within the parameters of your mortgage provider) to offer around that figure, if you really want it you offer a bit over

      A player doesn't have that, it's subjective to either the buyer or seller

      If for example we value Pulisic at 25m our premium maybe 30m.. even if Dortmund value Pulisic at 25m their premium may be 45m to do business this month

      Our and their 'premium' is way apart so we may feel we have offered a premium but they don't

      January whether we like it or not inflates that premium even more and again unlike a house there isnt windows to buy and different premiums at different times of the year

      There is no right or wrong as we don't know the facts

      Klopp has said we have bid for players

      I'll believe him

      Klopp has said we bid a premium

      Again I'll believe him but our valuation and the sellers valuation are obviously not being reached. I can take that at face value

      Again whichever side you believe I'm sure you can argue we aren't pushing enough and not backing the club or not being held to ransom

      Or somewhere in the middle

      It's not subjective mate.
      Every single player at every club has a valuation, and meeting and then exceeding that valuation, but then being told they still won't sell is what Klopp has been very clear about.

      So it kind of rubbishes the notion that the owners won't give him any money, which we see floated around here on a daily basis.

      Personally, if Klopp says it, then I believe him.
      Unlike some who are already preparing the "FSG stooge/apologist" posts that we've seen so often on these boards.

      The amount of half truths and outright lies being thrown about beggars belief.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10737: Jan 23, 2017 01:28:21 pm
      Every single player at every club has a valuation, and meeting and then exceeding that valuation, but then being told they still won't sell is what Klopp has been very clear about.

      You're assuming we know the other club's valuation of their players, but information is asymmetric in this case.

      It's not like Dortmund would say "we value Pulisic at 25m, but won't sell even at 30m". Wouldn't make any sense for them to do it, I guess.

      It's probably more like Liverpool might value him at 25m and tried bidding 30, but in reality Dortmund might value him at 40m.

      What I mean is that there are absolutely no guarantees that we have actually met a club's valuation of their player, for I find it very unlikely that a club would openly admit how much they value a certain player, only to reject a bid higher than that. It's a contradiction in terms, really - if you value something at 25m but still don't sell at 30m, then you actually value that thing over 30m, surely :D
      heimdall
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10738: Jan 23, 2017 01:30:04 pm
      It's not subjective mate.
      Every single player at every club has a valuation, and meeting and then exceeding that valuation, but then being told they still won't sell is what Klopp has been very clear about.

      So it kind of rubbishes the notion that the owners won't give him any money, which we see floated around here on a daily basis.

      Personally, if Klopp says it, then I believe him.
      Unlike some who are already preparing the "FSG stooge/apologist" posts that we've seen so often on these boards.

      The amount of half truths and outright lies being thrown about beggars belief.

      I also trust Klopp on this and its positive to hear he has money to spend but not so positive that we still can't get the targets although I'm guessing he is going after very important key players and in January that makes it very hard unless you pay silly money.
      Swab
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10739: Jan 23, 2017 01:32:51 pm
      You're assuming we know the other club's valuation of their players, but information is asymmetric in this case.

      It's not like Dortmund would say "we value Pulisic at 25m, but won't sell even at 30m". Wouldn't make any sense for them to do it, I guess.

      It's probably more like Liverpool might value him at 25m and tried bidding 30, but in reality Dortmund might value him at 40m.

      What I mean is that there are absolutely no guarantees that we have actually met a club's valuation of their player, for I find it very unlikely that a club would openly admit how much they value a certain player, only to reject a bid higher than that. It's a contradiction in terms, really - if you value something at 25m but still don't sell at 30m, then you actually value that thing over 30m, surely :D

      Agents always know the selling clubs valuation.
      Always.

      Once you agree with that valuation, it's no longer subjective, but accepted as pretty much fact.

      The reasons Klopp laid out were very clear; it wasn't about valuation, but about the other clubs being able to get a replacement.
      I have no idea why this very simple premise causes so much confusion.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #10740: Jan 23, 2017 01:33:44 pm
      It's not subjective mate.
      Every single player at every club has a valuation, and meeting and then exceeding that valuation, but then being told they still won't sell is what Klopp has been very clear about.



      It is subjective in terns of we don't know what valuations are being quoted

      It is subjective because both the selling club and the buying club with have their view on that valuation

      And it is subjective whether our premium in our opinion is enough to trigger them to sell

      What I'm saying is that money is available (your point that I agree) but we don't know if what's available or what our premium offer is is enough to get the selling club to sell

      Its subjective in terms of using the house analogy again, the house is independently valued,,players aren't. Different clubs will have different valuations



      It's not like Dortmund would say "we value Pulisic at 25m, but won't sell even at 30m". Wouldn't make any sense for them to do it, I guess.


      What I mean Diego is that Dortmund may well value him at 25m and in a summer window would reluctantly sell, in a winter window there tends to get a premium added to get them to really turn their heads, we may not have added enough to do that

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