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      Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager

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      bigmick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8188: May 25, 2016 08:05:18 pm
      This is probably the biggest difference between us Debs, I think Klopp is a World class manager, not a World class magician. :)

      I expect Klopp to get the best out of the players at his disposal, the better the players the more he will be able to get out of them. I expect him to develop a system that brings the best out of our players not turn water into wine, or why bother buying any new players, just stick with the crap we have and wait till he waves his wand.

      I think Klopp will make us a better side, I think he will bring in the quality we need to become a top side but I don't think he will do that with bargain basement signings.

      Just my opinion     


       



      Couldn't agree more. If Jürgen can make a great team out of cheap/unproven/average players, just imagine what he could do with a couple of already top ones? So long as Jürgen signs the players he actually wants, then I'm all in. If though the count on expensive players which he wanted but didn't get FOR WHATEVER REASON continues to gradually tick up, then we aren't really giving the fella a chance in my view. It's TWO so far (Teixera and Goetze), my problem is with the owners not the manager. When the boss identifies a player, get him. If it means we've got to pay premium wages in order to compensate for no champions League, then so be it.

      Pretty simple really.

      To summarise:

      1. I like Jürgen and think he's doing a great job.

      2. I think we should buy whichever players he wants. I trust him to be intelligent enough not to say "buy me Messi and Ronaldo".

      3. If we have to pay big wages to get the players HE wants, then we should pay up.
      s@int
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8189: May 25, 2016 08:17:25 pm
      I find it hard to believe you actually believe anyone is celebrating the price in any way for FSG's benefit?

      The only benefit of the prices I'm happy with is that it should, in theory, give Jürgen more ammunition for the positions he's struggling to fill. I would have thought that much was and is obvious and therefore didn't need saying.

      It's become a bit sad where the positivity is twisted to suggest you're celebrating FSG's potential gain, or you're compensating for over criticising Brendan due to reasons you never suggested or whatever other reason people seem to love to infer upon you.

      I'm positive because:

      We've shown massive improvements this season, while being inconsistent, Jürgen has proven he can get tremendous performances out of players I didn't think were capable of them.

      He's shown he can get us creating the most chances in the entire league (at one point) with not even close to the best squad in the league.

      He's shown he can get us conceding the least amount of shots on target with not even close to the best defence in the league.

      He's shown he can take us to a European Final when at the start of the season it looked like we were more likely we'd be battling it out for survival rather than honours.

      Along with that he took us within a coin flip of a domestic cup and has shown signs of taking control over the biggest failure at this club which was the bastardised transfer committee. I glean this information from the fact that all the interviews seem to suggest they've had direct dealings with Jürgen, the targets are all from his or his assistants previous base of knowledge and am therefore confident in making that conclusion.

      It does get a bit daft that you have to quantify your positivity though rather than it be inferred that you're not any of the above or future dreamed up utterances.

      I would think his transfer dealing so far have JWH doing somersaults around Boston.

       So at least FSG are happy. Just take a quick look in the general transfer thread for further information mate.

      Being positive I am sure you agree with me that we will be challenging for the title next season? That is what positivity is mate, not how many goals we nearly scored or how often we didn't allow a shot on goal.

      Points win prizes and if we want to win the premiership we need to accumulate more points than our rivals. Cups are a completely different thing mate, you don't need to be consistent to win a cup, to win the league you have to be consistently good throughout a long season. Top quality players help you gain that consistency which other players may not.

      So while I enjoyed our cup runs I don't believe that we ever had a chance of winning the league last season.

      I do think if we address our problems we can win it or have a bloody good go at it this time, but to address our problems we do need to bring in quality.

      Being positive is not seeing everything in a rosy hue mate, it is seeing thing as they really are and the truth is our squad wasn't good enough for a title challenge and we need to add quality to make it good enough.         
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8190: May 25, 2016 08:18:32 pm
      Paranoia is starting to set in now.

      Am I just being totally obtuse or are people contradicting themselves everytime they post??

      I feel I'm going round the bleeding twist trying to understand what people are saying  :mad:

      I don't think you're going round the twist Debs, in fact your posts are helping keeping me sane in here.

      Couldn't agree more. If Jürgen can make a great team out of cheap/unproven/average players, just imagine what he could do with a couple of already top ones? So long as Jürgen signs the players he actually wants, then I'm all in. If though the count on expensive players which he wanted but didn't get FOR WHATEVER REASON continues to gradually tick up, then we aren't really giving the fella a chance in my view. It's TWO so far (Teixera and Goetze), my problem is with the owners not the manager. When the boss identifies a player, get him. If it means we've got to pay premium wages in order to compensate for no champions League, then so be it.

      Pretty simple really.

      To summarise:

      1. I like Jürgen and think he's doing a great job.

      2. I think we should buy whichever players he wants. I trust him to be intelligent enough not to say "buy me Messi and Ronaldo".

      3. If we have to pay big wages to get the players HE wants, then we should pay up.

      Essentially what has already happened if you listen to those that are mostly reliable. We put together the leading package for Gotze (so sticking to offer enough to attract him) and his father had a word in his ear and now he's staying. To be fair to Snr Gotze he's got a point, Robben and Ribery will be moving on soon enough therefore game time and chances should increase for Jnr Gotze. I've no problem with how that panned out, somethings just aren't meant to be.

      In terms of Teixeira it seems like it was Jürgen who pulled the plug and said "enough!" At some point, when you don't have limitless funds, you need to make a value choice and he did. Again no problem when it's the boss that said stop. It seems, from the outside looking in, that Jürgen does indeed control a lot more of the purse strings than ever before (as has been reported), so for me that's one of the biggest positives moving forward.

      I've always wanted that and therefore I'm happy with it, outside of getting owners who actually invest their own money it's the best we can hope for and the best chance we have for success moving forward. Personally I would have thought more people would feel positive about that.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8191: May 25, 2016 08:20:12 pm
      Amen, exactly.

      We need passion, determination and focused players. They need to feel our passion in their veins.

      I think Jürgen will only accept players who will run through brick walls for the club because I think he would himself.
      reddebs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8192: May 25, 2016 08:24:45 pm
      I don't think you're going round the twist Debs, in fact your posts are helping keeping me sane in here.

      You sure mate, you're not just saying that to make me feel better 'cos I really do feel confused as hell.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8193: May 25, 2016 08:26:41 pm
      Being positive I am sure you agree with me that we will be challenging for the title next season? That is what positivity is mate, not how many goals we nearly scored or how often we didn't allow a shot on goal.

      I think we should be aiming for that every year, and I don't know a better manager for this club than the one we have...so yes I am positive.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8194: May 25, 2016 08:29:57 pm
      Christ, may hasn't finished yet and some of you won't last to June at this rate.
      s@int
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8195: May 25, 2016 08:32:50 pm
      I think we should be aiming for that every year, and I don't know a better manager for this club than the one we have...so yes I am positive.

      Not sure you count mate... you're American , they are always positive (not often right, but always positive :) )

      only joking
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8196: May 25, 2016 08:36:57 pm
      Being positive I am sure you agree with me that we will be challenging for the title next season? That is what positivity is mate, not how many goals we nearly scored or how often we didn't allow a shot on goal.

      Nah Saint positivity is a feeling you get, it's an intangible emotion that manifests itself from all the variables and I don't need us to challenge for the title next season to remain positive. I have a feeling we wont next year, I think what will happen is people will play the "this is Jürgen's second year etc etc" but in fact it will be his first year with his new signings and expecting consistency will be a step too far and we'll have too many minor hiccups along the way to be real title contenders. Doesn't stop me remaining positive because I think we will see progress from now on until the point we do win the title under Jürgen. I'm sticking to my initial prediction of 5 years but Jürgen suggested 4 so I wouldn't argue with that, but in his first proper full season, no I don't think he'll manage that.

      Points win prizes and if we want to win the premiership we need to accumulate more points than our rivals.

      Obviously.

      Cups are a completely different thing mate, you don't need to be consistent to win a cup, to win the league you have to be consistently good throughout a long season. Top quality players help you gain that consistency which other players may not.

      Again, obviously, hence why I suggested the above mate.

      So while I enjoyed our cup runs I don't believe that we ever had a chance of winning the league last season.

      Neither did I, told people as much as soon as the "we might win the league this season" thread opened, said they were setting themselves up for disappointment and I hope a few listened.

      I do think if we address our problems we can win it or have a bloody good go at it this time, but to address our problems we do need to bring in quality.

      Obviously we agree here about quality, I just don't agree that quality always comes at a price as Jürgen has proven before and one of the main reasons why I wanted him brought in as our manager. I neither believe he's a magician but a magician's job is to perform an illusion, when Jürgen delivers the title it will be neither an illusion nor a trick but it will be magical.

      Being positive is not seeing everything in a rosy hue mate, it is seeing thing as they really are and the truth is our squad wasn't good enough for a title challenge and we need to add quality to make it good enough.

      I've always been someone who has dealt with the truth rather than the veil that is pulled across. Being positive also doesn't suggest that you believe that we're currently in a position to challenge but it is the feeling that the chance is finally there for you to make strides on the opposition who already have a march on you.

      I think what you're confusing me having is blind optimism to positivity S@int and I'm not blind to the fact that we don't have owners who will invest to the levels that some of those above will. Therefore we're already at a handicap so to speak, so we need that advantage they don't have and I do believe that Jürgen is our advantage and do believe he can make the difference that money can't. For him to do so he needs to not only get more out of less but he must buy smarter, something many of us have been suggesting for a long time and now he's attempting to do it there seems to be this looking down your nose stance towards it.

      Let's put it this way if:

      We'd bought the 2nd best goal-keeper in Germany for £20m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      We'd bought one of the best CBs in Germany for £25m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      We'd bought one of the top youth talents around for £25m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      The fact we've managed this for around £10m should just give us more reason to feel hopeful that even more quality can be brought in and that's why I'm positive moving forward and wont allow any amount of negativity to drag me down.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8197: May 25, 2016 08:41:35 pm
      You sure mate, you're not just saying that to make me feel better 'cos I really do feel confused as hell.

      Absolutely, 100% sure Debs.
      s@int
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8198: May 25, 2016 08:53:54 pm
      Nah Saint positivity is a feeling you get, it's an intangible emotion that manifests itself from all the variables and I don't need us to challenge for the title next season to remain positive. I have a feeling we wont next year, I think what will happen is people will play the "this is Jürgen's second year etc etc" but in fact it will be his first year with his new signings and expecting consistency will be a step too far and we'll have too many minor hiccups along the way to be real title contenders. Doesn't stop me remaining positive because I think we will see progress from now on until the point we do win the title under Jürgen. I'm sticking to my initial prediction of 5 years but Jürgen suggested 4 so I wouldn't argue with that, but in his first proper full season, no I don't think he'll manage that.



      I will leave it there mate. You are "positive " yet you think it will take him years, while I am "negative" but I think we can win it this season. O.K.

      Every year is the managers first year with new signings mate. :) He's had seven months to assess who should stay and who should go, he has had seven months to pass on his style and what he wants from players... he is hardly starting from scratch.

      He just needs the top quality that I am sure he will buy when he sees my posts.   


      reddebs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8199: May 25, 2016 08:59:49 pm
      Nah Saint positivity is a feeling you get, it's an intangible emotion that manifests itself from all the variables and I don't need us to challenge for the title next season to remain positive. I have a feeling we wont next year, I think what will happen is people will play the "this is Jürgen's second year etc etc" but in fact it will be his first year with his new signings and expecting consistency will be a step too far and we'll have too many minor hiccups along the way to be real title contenders. Doesn't stop me remaining positive because I think we will see progress from now on until the point we do win the title under Jürgen. I'm sticking to my initial prediction of 5 years but Jürgen suggested 4 so I wouldn't argue with that, but in his first proper full season, no I don't think he'll manage that.

      Obviously.

      Again, obviously, hence why I suggested the above mate.

      Neither did I, told people as much as soon as the "we might win the league this season" thread opened, said they were setting themselves up for disappointment and I hope a few listened.

      Obviously we agree here about quality, I just don't agree that quality always comes at a price as Jürgen has proven before and one of the main reasons why I wanted him brought in as our manager. I neither believe he's a magician but a magician's job is to perform an illusion, when Jürgen delivers the title it will be neither an illusion nor a trick but it will be magical.

      I've always been someone who has dealt with the truth rather than the veil that is pulled across. Being positive also doesn't suggest that you believe that we're currently in a position to challenge but it is the feeling that the chance is finally there for you to make strides on the opposition who already have a march on you.

      I think what you're confusing me having is blind optimism to positivity S@int and I'm not blind to the fact that we don't have owners who will invest to the levels that some of those above will. Therefore we're already at a handicap so to speak, so we need that advantage they don't have and I do believe that Jürgen is our advantage and do believe he can make the difference that money can't. For him to do so he needs to not only get more out of less but he must buy smarter, something many of us have been suggesting for a long time and now he's attempting to do it there seems to be this looking down your nose stance towards it.

      Let's put it this way if:

      We'd bought the 2nd best goal-keeper in Germany for £20m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      We'd bought one of the best CBs in Germany for £25m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      We'd bought one of the top youth talents around for £25m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      The fact we've managed this for around £10m should just give us more reason to feel hopeful that even more quality can be brought in and that's why I'm positive moving forward and wont allow any amount of negativity to drag me down.

      Agreed mate. 

      Being positive is an emotion, a feeling.  It's looking forward to something because it's going to be amazing.  It's hope, optimism and excitement. 

      It's about all the different coloured prisms coming together to create a beautiful image, all those pieces of a jumbled up picture falling into place and becoming a masterpiece or seeing the light at the end of an eternally dark tunnel.

      I want to enjoy the journey as much as the destination because you know this destination is never going to be disappointing.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8200: May 25, 2016 09:03:15 pm
      I will leave it there mate. You are "positive " yet you think it will take him years, while I am "negative" but I think we can win it this season.

      That's how it appears to me Saint.

      Every year is the managers first year with new signings mate.

      There's a difference between the first signings and then those after that though mate as I'm sure you'd agree. The largest and therefore most disruptive signings will generally happen in the first year of a manager's tenure. After that it should become progressively less disruptive if the plan is advancing as you foresaw.

      Again I would have thought this was obvious with what I was saying rather than having to explain this mate.

      He's had seven months to assess who should stay and who should go, he has had seven months to pass on his style and what he wants from players... he is hardly starting from scratch.

      This depends how many he can and will change, as I've said to you before mate I think the changes will be much bigger than quite a good few suspect and you were also hopeful that would be the case.

      He just needs the top quality that I am sure he will buy when he sees my posts.

      I hope so too, he'd be wise listening to your advice on many things, as I've noted :D
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8201: May 25, 2016 09:12:19 pm
      I want to enjoy the journey as much as the destination because you know this destination is never going to be disappointing.

      Absolutely Debs.

      You know that if we do manage it this way it will have a little extra sparkle about it. Sure I'd never complain if an owner wanted to come in and buy the title but if we manage to do it will not throwing the bank at it then it will taste that little bit sweeter.
      bmck
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8202: May 25, 2016 09:27:57 pm

      We'd bought the 2nd best goal-keeper in Germany for £20m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      We'd bought one of the best CBs in Germany for £25m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      We'd bought one of the top youth talents around for £25m nobody would have batted an eyelid on the price but they'd have talked it up even more, that's the truth.

      The fact we've managed this for around £10m should just give us more reason to feel hopeful that even more quality can be brought in and that's why I'm positive moving forward and wont allow any amount of negativity to drag me down.

      Was thinking THIS was the definition of positivity :)

      Nobody's trying to drag anyone down btw. If these guys turn out to be successes, brilliant, we'll all be happy. But without knowing much about them, I guess people have different levels of hope vs expectation.

      Positivity is subjective btw. Some people in pretty dire situations find reason to be positive. While others in better situations might struggle to find positive energy.  Liking everything 100% is probably a nice state to be in, but not many reach that level of kwan :)
      reddebs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8203: May 25, 2016 09:51:11 pm
      Absolutely Debs.

      You know that if we do manage it this way it will have a little extra sparkle about it. Sure I'd never complain if an owner wanted to come in and buy the title but if we manage to do it will not throwing the bank at it then it will taste that little bit sweeter.

      It's a weird one mate we could just as easily win it next season as never win it again. 

      For so long everyone in the league thought that the challenge was impossible, that even getting into the top 4 was unbreakable when it was us, the mancs, the chavs and the arse in whatever order it ended.

      Then city entered the race, we fell out, the chavs fell out, the mancs fell out, spuds got in, fell out and got back in again, same as us, same as Leicester this season.  The league is changing mate, it could be back to the usual suspects next season but it could just as easily remain volatile, changeable every season with an outlier coming from nowhere again.

      People are assuming that because everybody bar us will spend huge amounts of money that the status quo and "par" will return but there's going to be upheaval at the both mancs clubs and at chelsea next season so it's anyones guess who might sneak in.

      We have just as much chance as anyone else but likewise we could end up 7th, 8th or even 9th again.  There are no certainties anymore but we've as much chance as anyone else and I'm looking forward to seeing it all unfold.
      FL Red
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8204: May 25, 2016 09:56:33 pm
      You can be pragmatic AND positive. I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not. Not every one of his signings is going to work out, no manager's does. In fact I think it's a bit odd to be so high on our transfers but to not think we can push for the title. Bit hypocritical actually.


      I think what's actually going on (and it's sad) is that there are people already trying to position themselves as super fans so they can tell everyone "I told you so" when Jürgen inevitable gets us to the top again.

      Just enjoy the ride, don't worry about being right or wrong and be able to judge his tenure objectively. It's more fun that way anyway.
      bigmick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8205: May 25, 2016 10:01:18 pm
      You can be pragmatic AND positive. I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not. Not every one of his signings is going to work out, no manager's does. In fact I think it's a bit odd to be so high on our transfers but to not think we can push for the title. Bit hypocritical actually.


      I think what's actually going on (and it's sad) is that there are people already trying to position themselves as super fans so they can tell everyone "I told you so" when Jürgen inevitable gets us to the top again.

      Just enjoy the ride, don't worry about being right or wrong and be able to judge his tenure objectively. It's more fun that way anyway.

      Where's that "nail on head" picture when you need it?
      s@int
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8206: May 25, 2016 10:04:19 pm
      You can be pragmatic AND positive. I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not. Not every one of his signings is going to work out, no manager's does. In fact I think it's a bit odd to be so high on our transfers but to not think we can push for the title. Bit hypocritical actually.


      I think what's actually going on (and it's sad) is that there are people already trying to position themselves as super fans so they can tell everyone "I told you so" when Jürgen inevitable gets us to the top again.

      Just enjoy the ride, don't worry about being right or wrong and be able to judge his tenure objectively. It's more fun that way anyway.

      Pretty much spot on.
      bigmick
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8207: May 25, 2016 10:07:39 pm
      If we signed Arda Turan, Tony Krus, Marco Verrati, Phillipe Luis, Marco Reus,that sort of player I'd be rowing in with S@int and expecting a title challenge***. We've already got some excellent players IMHO, but TOP players would make us real contenders. As it is though, to expect Jürgen to bridge the gap while spending relatively bugger all is IMHO expecting a miracle, and as much as I think he's brilliant I can't see it happening.


      *** All these players may these days be sh!te or injured for all I know. I'm just naming players who back when I saw them I thought they were quality. 
      reddebs
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8208: May 25, 2016 10:10:39 pm
      You can be pragmatic AND positive. I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not. Not every one of his signings is going to work out, no manager's does. In fact I think it's a bit odd to be so high on our transfers but to not think we can push for the title. Bit hypocritical actually.


      I think what's actually going on (and it's sad) is that there are people already trying to position themselves as super fans so they can tell everyone "I told you so" when Jürgen inevitable gets us to the top again.

      Just enjoy the ride, don't worry about being right or wrong and be able to judge his tenure objectively. It's more fun that way anyway.

      Or just as likely the told you so's will be out in force when he doesn't mate.

      Oh and I don't like my support being called sad or am I being paranoid again?
      bmck
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8209: May 25, 2016 10:11:20 pm
      I feel like Jürgen can run us to the title next year whether he overhauls the squad or not.


      Reckon most focus should be on the back 5/DM in this transfer window, think challenging depends on whether the new signings slot in and perform well (from the start), and whether he can organize the defense sufficiently for us to get results consistently (more consistently than last season). Fair enough, new signings take time to settle, but if they have quality they should settle quicker. Unlike last and previous season, think the strikers are less of a concern.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jürgen Klopp - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8210: May 25, 2016 10:18:27 pm
      Reckon most focus should be on the back 5/DM in this transfer window, think challenging depends on whether the new signings slot in and perform well (from the start), and whether he can organize the defense sufficiently for us to get results consistently (more consistently than last season). Fair enough, new signings take time to settle, but if they have quality they should settle quicker. Unlike last and previous season, think the strikers are less of a concern.

      Can has already been marked for that DM spot, if we can get another aggressive ball playing CM next to him and a decent LB I imagine that should shave our goal diff by at least 15-20 which should make us Top 4 contenders.

      Title contenders?........ I'm not going down that route looking at all the posts above.  :)

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