Europe. Where do you currently stand?

Had a good debate with a few lads from work not so long ago about us reds standing in Europe (as in where do you currently place us in the mixture of club football in Europe).

A lot of them automatically place us in the elite standing. Just because of the amount of European Cups we have. European royalty - you can't argue with that.

But in terms of football and how good we currently are at it, where do we stand?

I think we could probably get a one off result against a Champions League regular but really struggle to achieve a run of successful results in any European competition at this present moment in time.

I think Thursday's game was a good indicator of how far we have fallen. And I think that rot started in the latter stages of the Benitez era.

Where do you stand on Europe?

There is no doubt our name is still recognised across Europe as one of the Giants of European football but obviously the longer we don't win trophies or compete in Europe that memory in fans will erode.

There was a reason Jürgen came to us as he remembered us as a European heavyweight but maybe that's now a generational thing. Because although Liverpool is still the second team for most Germans how long will that last without success?

Rodgers certainly did us no favours in our recent endeavours in Europe and that's probably where a lot of young fans see LFC!

Good post. I personally don't think we're as far behind as some make out. I think we have a good group of players that lacks an identity and belief. We are probably  about 3 top drawer players away from being able to field a team that can compete with anyone in Europe. If Klopp can turn Balo, Markovic, Skrtel, Allen, Milner, and Lovren into Howedes, Pjanic, Mkhitaryan and Insigne then we'll have the quality to compete with anyone (obviously these are hypothetical examples). The next step will be developing that collection of quality into a finely tuned winning machine.

Also, regarding the slide starting under Benitez..... it's true, but a little misleading. H&G forcing him to sell players to make interest payments was the cause. Rafa just happened to be the manager who had to operate in those conditions.....

Very interesting point!

I think our Champions League run last season was an eye opener of where we are, on the pitch, in Europe. We're underdogs, no longer the giants or favourites. History deserves respect no doubt, but how do you feel about Ajax in Europe now?

We, as fans, demand better, and rightly so. But it's been a long term slump and as such its a long term fix. But realistically if you were to throw us into any Champions League group right now we might have a chance at Group H, but other than that I don't see us qualifying from any other group to be perfectly honest. That's no an early jab at Klopp or an underhand go at Rodgers, this has been happening for years and without proper support there's not a manager alive that could change what we've been through.

It's a shame, remember when Madrid fell apart at Anfield, or Ambromovichs millions couldn't buy him passion. When the best in Europe thought a draw was great result against us, when a final wasn't a dream, it was an expectation. It's a long road back, but as a unit we need to take each step together.

There was a reason Jürgen came to us as he remembered us as a European heavyweight but maybe that's now a generational thing. Because although Liverpool is still the second team for most Germans how long will that last without success?

Exactly! Why would the hottest prospect in managerial football risk it all joining Liverpool if he didn't believe we could get back to that level where we are oh so comfortable!?

A lot of them automatically place us in the elite standing. Just because of the amount of European Cups we have. European royalty - you can't argue with that.

Historically, you can't argue with that, can you? We're the cream of the crop.

But in terms of football and how good we currently are at it, where do we stand?

But as of this moment footballing wise, due to this...

Also, regarding the slide starting under Benitez..... it's true, but a little misleading. H&G forcing him to sell players to make interest payments was the cause. Rafa just happened to be the manager who had to operate in those conditions.....

and this..

Rodgers certainly did us no favours in our recent endeavours in Europe and that's probably where a lot of young fans see LFC!

We have become an average Europa league team, not an average CL team, but an average Europa league team!! How far we have fallen

It is time we take precedence in Europa League over the FA and Carling cup and stop treating it like a mickey mouse cup (an attitude largely created by the British media), especially now that the reward is a CL spot, but on top of that, it is hugely financially rewarding.

Europa League
First qualifying round: €200,000
Second qualifying round: €210,000
Third qualifying round: €220,000
Play-off round elimination: €230,000
Base fee for group stage: €2,400,000
Group match victory: €360,000
Group match draw: €120,000
Group winners: €500,000
Group runners-up: €250,000
Round of 32: €500,000
Round of 16: €750,000
Quarter-finals: €1,000,000
Semi-finals: €1,500,000
Losing finalist: €3,500,000
Winners: €6,000,000

FA Cup
Third Round £7,500
Fourth Round £12,500
First Round £18,000
Second Round £27,000
Third Round £67,500
Fourth Round £90,000
Fifth Round £180,000
Sixth Round £360,000
Semi-Final winners £900,000
Semi-Final losers £450,000
Final runners-up £900,000
Final winners £1,800,000

Carling Cup
Final winners £100k

With a strong team out vs Rubin Kazan, I am confident Klopp understands the value of Europe and the benefits of winning or going far into the competition. Hopefully in time, he will have us once again amongst the greats and challenging against the best where we belong.

remember when Madrid fell apart at Anfield, or Ambromovichs millions couldn't buy him passion. When the best in Europe thought a draw was great result against us, when a final wasn't a dream, it was an expectation. It's a long road back, but as a unit we need to take each step together.

It is time to move away from the rot that has been with us for so many years and to regain that recognition world wide as one of the best teams in the world.

Without doubt up to 3 or 4 years ago we were one of the most feared clubs in Europe, sadly today that is not the case. Our performances in Europe in recent seasons has been a reflection on the football we have been playing in the league matches.
                                                   I am sure our new boss will treat Europe differently than his predecessor did and so he should. Also the calibre of the majority of the players we have signed in recent years does not make for a good fit in Europe.
                                                    I think it is important that we qualify for Europe every season, preferably the champions league.

Had a good debate with a few lads from work not so long ago about us reds standing in Europe (as in where do you currently place us in the mixture of club football in Europe).

A lot of them automatically place us in the elite standing. Just because of the amount of European Cups we have. European royalty - you can't argue with that.

But in terms of football and how good we currently are at it, where do we stand?

I think we could probably get a one off result against a Champions League regular but really struggle to achieve a run of successful results in any European competition at this present moment in time.

I think Thursday's game was a good indicator of how far we have fallen. And I think that rot started in the latter stages of the Benitez era.

Where do you stand on Europe?

I would agree with most of that mate. We still have a name that is respected in Europe but sadly not the team or the recent history to go with it.

I think we have only qualified for the CL once in the last five seasons and lost or drawn to some very small names over the past few years in the Europa, while maybe not treating teams with the respect they deserved because we still believed we were a "big name" team who only had to show up to win.

I think if we played our strongest team in every game we could hold our own in the Europa league, but we are no longer capable of playing 4 or 5 squad players if we wish to progress. Certainly I think we would struggle to even progress past the group stage in the CL whether we played our strongest team or not.

European football has gained strength over the past few years ... while the premier league and especially Liverpool have weakened considerably. Treating European games like League cup games obviously hasn't helped, but we seem to have lost the ability to control games, relying more on pace and physicality to win games rather than having a tactical plan, controlling the game and picking them off at our leisure.

 

We have fallen in the PL and at the moment are pretty much nowhere in Europe, Klopp is here to change that, at the moment he is operating best he can with Brendans team, the rot did start with Rafa but thats not to say he wouldnt have turned it around and we were robbed in Europa semi final when Benayoun had a wrongly disallowed goal against Atletico I think it was and we'd have played Fulham in the Final so Rafa was only a whisker away from adding to our history
Under Rodgers we became also rans,I dont care how good Real are nobody should come to Anfield and beat us 4-0.

as Klopp has been begging us to understand, there is no point looking at the past right now, obviously the club has been in a bad place but we have been through the lowest part of the cycle.

i believe we do have fine recent history in europe. we must not be hysterical and pretend we used to be the best club in the world and now we are worse off than newcastle. look at the facts: the past 5 seasons we've played champions league and two campaigns of europa league football; 5 seasons before that we were in the champions league every season, two finals, loss in round of 16, quarters and semis. 10 seasons: no european football in two.

every time we've been in the europa league the past 5 years i've wanted us to win it so badly, because we were joint top with 3 UEFA cups, i wanted us to pull ahead to be the outright best in that comp, as we pulled ahead in the league cups in 2012. we are still the best in england in both european competitions in any case and there are no signs we are going to let that slip.

we've been in a dire, dire position as a club for some time and we've just had a "rookie" manager in charge for 3 seasons - that is the reality of it - we haven't fallen off the face of the earth or anything catastrophic, we just have to establish a winning culture to put this football club back in the upper echelon of world football, like plenty of clubs have done like bayern munich and juventus. we were always going to have a transition period between losing long-serving stalwarts of the club like Reina, Agger, Carragher, Johnson, Gerrard, Torres. that is the reality of the situation. we are bringing in a new wave we want to see here for the next 10 seasons. we want to see the names we've slowly (and it does take time) brought together to stay for 10 seasons and have more success than the names I just listed. that takes time and understanding, especially from the supporters.

if the rumors of former bayern doctor müller wohlfahrt joining the club are true that is further proof we are setting fine standards again at this football club and we are looking for a far brighter next 5 years than the last 5 - which haven't even been that catastrophic! if you start supporting this team now you will enjoy it far greater when we achieve success!

Not in the top 50 currently that is how far we have fallen

I would agree with most of that mate. We still have a name that is respected in Europe but sadly not the team or the recent history to go with it.

I think we have only qualified for the CL once in the last five seasons and lost or drawn to some very small names over the past few years in the Europa, while maybe not treating teams with the respect they deserved because we still believed we were a "big name" team who only had to show up to win.

 I think we would struggle to even progress past the group stage in the CL whether we played our strongest team or not.

European football has gained strength over the past few years ... while the premier league and especially Liverpool have weakened considerably. Treating European games like League cup games obviously hasn't helped, but we seem to have lost the ability to control games, relying more on pace and physicality to win games rather than having a tactical plan, controlling the game and picking them off at our leisure.

If we aren't good enough to get out of the group phase of the European Cup, why was coming within one goal of making it last year widely considered  "embarrassing"?

We are second seeds in the UEFA Cup now, third in the European Cup. That isn't because we're not controlling the game, it's because we didn't play in Europe twice in recent years, and when we do play in Europe, we don't win enough of them. That won't improve while we field weakened sides or don't want to play in Russia on a Thursday night, but we will if it's the night before.

Had a good debate with a few lads from work not so long ago about us reds standing in Europe (as in where do you currently place us in the mixture of club football in Europe).

A lot of them automatically place us in the elite standing. Just because of the amount of European Cups we have. European royalty - you can't argue with that.

But in terms of football and how good we currently are at it, where do we stand?

I think we could probably get a one off result against a Champions League regular but really struggle to achieve a run of successful results in any European competition at this present moment in time.

I think Thursday's game was a good indicator of how far we have fallen. And I think that rot started in the latter stages of the Benitez era.

Where do you stand on Europe?

I think we'll always be considered as one of Europes Greats due to the amount of Trophies we've won over the years but I agree we have from grace somewhat recently Kenny.  Having said that it corresponds with our failure in the League, if we haven't had/got the players and/or the managers to compete at domestic level we're hardly likely to compete in Europe.

The good thing though is I don't think it'll take that long to get our name back up there.  Get out of our EL group and have a decent ish showing in the knock outs, alongside an improved finish in the league whether that's a CL place or a EL place and we should be able to kick on from next season.  Obviously it'll take time to get back to where we were in Rafas time and maybe we never will hit those heights again but we can quite esaily improve our standing from where we are   

If we aren't good enough to get out of the group phase of the European Cup, why was coming within one goal of making it last year widely considered  "embarrassing"?

We are second seeds in the UEFA Cup now, third in the European Cup. That isn't because we're not controlling the game, it's because we didn't play in Europe twice in recent years, and when we do play in Europe, we don't win enough of them. That won't improve while we field weakened sides or don't want to play in Russia on a Thursday night, but we will if it's the night before.

Maybe it was embarrassing for some that our record in the CL was played 6 won 1 lost 3 ?

Or maybe it was the fact that we couldn't beat the mighty Basil, but personally I just thought it was a little embarrassing that we gave up any hope of beating R.Madrid after being beaten 3-0 at home and decided to concentrate on our next league game when it came to playing them away.

The fact that we went out in the next round of the UEFA cup to the mighty Besiktas might have proved a little embarrassing to some or the fact that this season we have so far failed to win one of our games in the UEFA cup could be seen by some as not quite living up to the standards of yesteryear.

Personally I think it is because we don't have the quality players we once had or the players that can control a game... you can of course believe whatever excuse you want. 

Maybe it was embarrassing for some that our record in the CL was played 6 won 1 lost 3 ?

Or maybe it was the fact that we couldn't beat the mighty Basil, but personally I just thought it was a little embarrassing that we gave up any hope of beating R.Madrid after being beaten 3-0 at home and decided to concentrate on our next league game when it came to playing them away.

The fact that we went out in the next round of the UEFA cup to the mighty Besiktas might have proved a little embarrassing to some or the fact that this season we have so far failed to win one of our games in the UEFA cup could be seen by some as not quite living up to the standards of yesteryear.

Personally I think it is because we don't have the quality players we once had or the players that can control a game... you can of course believe whatever excuse you want. 

in his world we won all 6 beat RM home and away 4-0 . Now who was it that managed a team that beat them 4-0 and 1-0 in Madrid cant remember his name but it wasnt f***in Brendan thats for sure.

Well we aren't going to finish top 4 so winning this competition takes a firm 2nd place for me.

Our name will always be good in Europe. But results wise were way down the order. Our campaigns last year were tripe and this year is heading the same way.

Nobody fears us anymore simple as that. They will again though

We need to win the thing. I think we can, just need to get going a little more than we have already.

We need some silverware, and this particular piece would put us in the CL next season, regardless.

Essential.

We need to give Europa a good go this season.

After the heysel ban it took us a while to get back into the weay of Europe, but we got there with GH, we are again at a similar cross roads with Europe, it will ge6t better under klopp for sure.

We are still in a good position to qualify for the knock out stages, we just need a wee win or 2.

We couldn't been Rubin Kasan, a team near the bottom of the Russian league, who had 10 men, at Anfield.

Think that tells us where we are in Europe just now..

We couldn't been Rubin Kasan, a team near the bottom of the Russian league, who had 10 men, at Anfield.

Think that tells us where we are in Europe just now..

This is true, but we have a quality manager in charge now and things will improve.

This is true, but we have a quality manager in charge now and things will improve.

Would be very hopeful they will. Definitely have a great history in Europe, would love to see us back challenging for trophies ...

Europe, where do you currently stand?
Try to win it, no excuses about it being the lesser cup. If we don't do well I'll be extremely upset.

When we qualify out of this group a hell of a lot of European teams won't want to meet Jurgens army in the next round believe me..
I currently stand confident we can progress with our heads high..

I think we could deffo win it but with injuries that we've got it will be difficult. I am optimistic though. We still have Henderson to come back, it will be interesting to see if Klopp brings Lazar back in January, who knows what will happen with Sturridge so I'm not banking on anything, it will also be interesting to see what Remi Garde does with Illori now he's there so if he doesn't use him I say we get him back as well.
Keeping Benteke fit-priority, getting Coutinho playing to his potential and consistently-priority, keeping Lucas fit and playing regularly-priority, getting Firmino fit and playing to his full potential. Some things that we could do with here and we could be right up there.

Maybe it was embarrassing for some that our record in the CL was played 6 won 1 lost 3 ?

Of the 3, 2 were against Real Madrid, who nobody else could take a point off either.

Or maybe it was the fact that we couldn't beat the mighty Basil

It is a fact alright. Not that it hasn't happened before though. Houllier couldn't beat them either. Even the mancs have fell at that hurdle in the past, so embarrassing is not the word I would use.

personally I just thought it was a little embarrassing that we gave up any hope of beating R.Madrid after being beaten 3-0 at home and decided to concentrate on our next league game when it came to playing them away.

In fairness, after the home leg, most fans had also given up that hope long before the team made it as far as the Bernabeu. And furthermore, many fans want us to concentrate on the next league game, when it comes to going away in Europe.

The fact that we went out in the next round of the UEFA cup to the mighty Besiktas might have proved a little embarrassing to some or the fact that this season we have so far failed to win one of our games in the UEFA cup could be seen by some as not quite living up to the standards of yesteryear.

In the other year we couldn't deal with the Swiss Rolls, we went out of the UEFA Cup at home to Celtic. That was more embarrassing than losing a penalty shootout.

What I do find embarrassing is that people want us to field weakened sides in the UEFA Cup just because it's on Thursday night, and also have the expectancy that we get out of the group, before we set out on it.

Last year's group saw us below "the mighty" Basle in the seedings, and we finished below them. This year Sion are almost through,  qualifying is decided on the pitch, and if we want to have it after Christmas, and I do, we still have work to do.

Without doubt up to 3 or 4 years ago we were one of the most feared clubs in Europe, sadly today that is not the case. Our performances in Europe in recent seasons has been a reflection on the football we have been playing in the league matches.
                                                   I am sure our new boss will treat Europe differently than his predecessor did and so he should. Also the calibre of the majority of the players we have signed in recent years does not make for a good fit in Europe.
                                                    I think it is important that we qualify for Europe every season, preferably the champions league.

Thank you Jürgen  Klopp

I think at this moment and with Klopp in charge ( not a dig at Rodgers, just that Klopp has European experience) we would qualify from a group stage and anything after that would be a bonus. Hopefully after Klopp has more time to work with the team that could improve

Well we aren't going to finish top 4 so winning this competition takes a firm 2nd place for me.

You think not ?

Ye of little faith.

From this first month I have seen enough of Klopp , Buvac and co to believe we will make the four and our participation in the CL next year will be no embarrassment.
Never again fielding a reserve team against the Real Madrid's of the world.

I believe that once we return to the top table of European football we will stay there .

There's no doubt we aren't where we used to be but Jürgen and his staff can change that. It really annoys me when I see the media writing off the Europa League and pretty much comparing it to the League Cup,at the end of the day it's still a European Trophy and winning it is a gateway into the Champions League regardless of final league position. Maybe every club,ourselves included should start treating it with more importance,you just need to look at how Sevilla have done in the last 4-5 years in it.

View it more as an opportunity than a midweek hindrance that you'd rather not have. I'd love us to win it and I think after Thursday's game against Kazan Klopp and the players will be taking it seriously which pleases me instead of fielding a reserves team. A lot of press and even managers will moan that they're having to travel to Russia etc fly back and play an away game on Sunday but a win could mean a step closer to silverwear and for me that's all that matters. I want to see Liverpool fight for every cup they enter. A Europa League win would be a massive step in the right direction in putting us back at the top table of world club football.

It's true we are still a team that is still recognised in europe, but unfortunately, no longer feared. We will have our moments in the europa this season, now we have a manager who respects the cup. We may also meet slightly better than average teams who drop out of the C.L. That will be the first measure, as, and if, we progress, we will get a feel of how these games are best played compared to prem games, and the stall will be set. With a manager who cares about performance in all games, and one who can attract the better players to the club, i'm sure progress will continue over the next few seasons, until we are back amongst the elite.
I'm not yet 100 % we will make 4th this season, but we will certainly be on the right road.
 Give it two more seasons and I think we'll once again be feared and not just remembered.

You think not ?

Ye of little faith.

From this first month I have seen enough of Klopp , Buvac and co to believe we will make the four and our participation in the CL next year will be no embarrassment.
Never again fielding a reserve team against the Real Madrid's of the world.

I believe that once we return to the top table of European football we will stay there .

That night in Madrid mate was the beginning of the end of BR mate , i think that's about the time when the players thought wtf is going on here , the nock on effect was zero confidence and it spread like wildfire throughout the team ,one of Brendan's biggest fck ups imo , I trust in this manager there will be no such negativity .

Europa League is very important now it means champions league football for the winner. We take it serious and win our group and rotate our players best we can. No more weakened line ups!

Had a good debate with a few lads from work not so long ago about us reds standing in Europe (as in where do you currently place us in the mixture of club football in Europe).

A lot of them automatically place us in the elite standing. Just because of the amount of European Cups we have. European royalty - you can't argue with that.

But in terms of football and how good we currently are at it, where do we stand?

I think we could probably get a one off result against a Champions League regular but really struggle to achieve a run of successful results in any European competition at this present moment in time.

I think Thursday's game was a good indicator of how far we have fallen. And I think that rot started in the latter stages of the Benitez era.

Where do you stand on Europe?

Great debate, one I've had a couple times over the last few years with some mates.

Our standing is certainly one that only demands respect based on our historical record in Europe, as certainly right now we're nothing in the pecking order. Unfortunately in this day and age (i.e. social media, instant highlights etc) we've had nothing much of an impact whatsoever. Legend in this modern age is built largely on how much of a social impact a moment has across media platforms, and Liverpool have had minimal success in this time. Kids haven't been inundated with vine/gif/video of Liverpool moment after Liverpool moment in Europe like they have the Messi moments, the Bayern moments, etc etc. Thought we were headed that way after 13/14 but then we lost Suarez and then BR lost his mojo (surely just a coincidence.......).

Imagine if Istanbul had happened now, with everyone going nuts about games that are half as epic as that night on Twitter and the like. And beyond that, just the sheer number of people the sport reaches now is so much more than even ten years ago. The Champions League is huge in international audiences now. Having gone to college in the US, a lot of the mates I had there that got into footy in that time started via Champions League (two Liverpool fans thanks to me as well ). As far as the US is concerned, footy is 100% more popular in the masses than it was ten years ago. If Liverpool had that run from 04/05-08/09 of consistent top Champions League team now, we would be etched into minds world wide like people see Barca, Bayern etc. But the mire we have been in the last five years has really hurt us, as the new generation of fans that just watch footy through social media and don't seek historical context know us only as a team that "was apparently good once so someone who is old tells me"

A long winded way of saying we don't have an significant standing in my mind as far as getting talked about currently. However, our records speak for themselves. They're not going anywhere. Once we get back to that level, people will know. That standing won't take long to jump up because we have the platform. Had an Arsenal fan try to raz me once with the whole "we make Champions League every year" sh*t and I just simply said "Well we only needed a couple years to win it" and shut him right up. Though obviously I'd like to be in it every year AND win it, we still have those records that simply can't be argued. We'll get back there.

You just need to look at the record  books to see our continual appearances in Europe.
Forget Arsenal.
If my memory serves me correctly I think it was under Souness we missed it and broke the line of qualification. Someone on here will have that info.
Then there were the bans.

People also forget that when we won Big Ears  the first ones were in the European Cup on a simple home and away knock out "no room for error" basis. Not the CL group stages now when you can get away with an occasional loss or a draw.

You just need to look at the record  books to see our continual appearances in Europe.
Forget Arsenal.
If my memory serves me correctly I think it was under Souness we missed it and broke the line of qualification. Someone on here will have that info.
Then there were the bans.

People also forget that when we won Big Ears  the first ones were in the European Cup on a simple home and away knock out "no room for error" basis. Not the CL group stages now when you can get away with an occasional loss or a draw.

That's the thing tho Skip, ppl don't look at history books, especially youngsters, they are only interested in modern day football, in other words the sky generation, football didn't exist pre 1992,

How many times have you heard " no team has won back to back CL's" ?

We did, in '77' & '78' it's the same competition with a different hat on, I know that, you know that and of course the thousand upon thousands of football fans of a generation prior to '92',

If I'm not mistaken I think Forest did it too in I think '79' '80' not entirely sure tho,

But try telling that to your modern era of supporters, they will argue it's not the same thing, and it's harder now to win because of the amount of games, but you and I know over two legs you HAD to win or you out, and only get back in if you were league champions, how ironic then that you don't need to be ' league champions' to qualify for ' CHAMPIONS LEAGUE',

YNWA

The modern fans, our own included, have no time at all for the UEFA Cup, under it's trading name. Given our proud record in it, (including playing possibly the greatest ever European final in 2001) it's depressing when you see the lack of respect it's given. So what if you have to go to Russia. Teams have to go to Russia in the other one too.

There are hundreds of clubs throughout Europe that would love to win this competition. We're fortunate enough to have the resources to do so. I just wish we would use them.

That's the thing tho Skip, ppl don't look at history books, especially youngsters, they are only interested in modern day football, in other words the sky generation, football didn't exist pre 1992,

How many times have you heard " no team has won back to back CL's" ?

We did, in '77' & '78' it's the same competition with a different hat on, I know that, you know that and of course the thousand upon thousands of football fans of a generation prior to '92',

If I'm not mistaken I think Forest did it too in I think '79' '80' not entirely sure tho,

But try telling that to your modern era of supporters, they will argue it's not the same thing, and it's harder now to win because of the amount of games, but you and I know over two legs you HAD to win or you out, and only get back in if you were league champions, how ironic then that you don't need to be ' league champions' to qualify for ' CHAMPIONS LEAGUE',

YNWA

what a season it would be if we could win the Europa League and qualify for the Cl at the same time