Which players are actually good enough for LFC

Excellent post mate. As you say, in one sense most of the players individually are good enough in one capacity or another, but put them all together and we clearly don't have the right balance of qualities -- and "leadership" qualities, encompassing all of the things you mention (game intelligence, will to win, resilience etc.) are a significant part of the deficit.

This is a critical point in my opinion. If you look at the team that Rafa won #5 with, it is arguably the worst European champion on paper in the last 20 years. However, what Rafa was good at was getting a group of slightly above average players to play better than the sum of their parts. He was good at building a team, and not just putting out a collection of players. Our current group looks like nothing more than a collection of players with little direction or purpose. I think Klopp will address and correct that issue, but it will take some time as he needs to put a clear vision forward and then shape the team in that vision. No more "versatile" or "potential".... we need proven quality to fill specific roles.

At their best, the majority of the squad, are at least squad quality, the problem (even with our best players) is the lack of consistency.

I was lucky to see the team of the late 80s, with Barnes, Beardsley, Rush, Hansen, Molby, McMahon, Aldo, Whelan, Nicol, ..... So if I was to take that as the bench mark for players good enough to play for Liverpool, then there wouldn't be Single player in the current squad rated as up to standard. Coutinho, if he was more consistent would come close, as would Sturridge if he played more often.

Obviously that would be an unfair comparison to make, so based on the how low our standard his slipped, Coutinho, Sturridge and Ings are good enough, Benteke, Hendo, Gomez,Milner, Clyne, Lucas, Can, Sakho, Skrtel, Ibe, Lallana, Origi,Lovren, Moreno are acceptable squad players, but can be improved on, Allen, Migs and Kolo can leave in Jan.

There are young lads like Tex, Branaghan, Rossiter etcetera that I haven't seen enough of to make a decision either way.

I think to a large extent consistency comes with age and experience, even more so in the "flair" players. So I accept a little inconsistency from some of the younger players such as Coutinho, Ibe, Origi, who are still in the early 20's, but most of our squad are now in their peak years of 24/28 and are still inconsistant, while I also find the lack of fight and effort they show at times totally unacceptable. "When the going gets tough, we just want to go home" seems to be the motto of some of our players.

As an aside I don't think Coutinho will now become the player I thought he would become. Maybe the lack of quality around him has started to restrict his development or maybe Suarez et al just made him look so good?

I'm surprised to see Clyne mentioned as good enough, he is solid but I'm not sure that's enough for a fullback at a top side now.

For modern title challenging team (not to mention European elite teams) you generally expect a lot more from one or both fullbacks then gets up and down and can defend. He doesn't really have much guile to his play near their area.

He's no Zabaleta, Cole, Evra, Kolarov etc

I suppose you could say Azpilicueta but we're not looking to play that way.

Difference is, we're NOT a top team anymore, well at the moment at least and for what it's worth, Clyne is a good, solid defender who can occasionally cause teams problems going the other way. Personally? I prefer my defenders to able to defend, and he can.

liverpool quality players:

coutinho
sturridge

squad players:

the rest

Such a thread just perfectly personifies the roller coaster of emotion, borderline bipolar attitudes of this fan forum. We swap the floor at City and Chelsea and we’re on top of the world, good enough to win the league. Then, an obvious downtime of complacency and suddenly people want to sell more than half the time and “bring in 3 or 4 world class players.” Well no sh*t, what team doesn’t want to bring in those 3-4 players, and all teams at this point would virtually be able to compete for the title with that. So much stick gets thrown at the teams with all the money who buy the success, and then those same people insinuate to do the same. Are there players here that are likely not up to par with what we want to see? Absolutely. But that exists in all squads. What we need to keep in mind is we have a top manager, who will evaluate what he has, and will move accordingly. It was never going to be an overnight success, but instead of bemoaning and demeaning the men we have now in red shirts, get behind them. They’ve shown great things before, and I believe they can show them again, even on a more consistent basis. If we want to complain about anything, how about the fact that Anfield still sounds like a morgue for 2/3 of every game, and it takes 2-1 down vs. West Brom to get behind the players. I’d be there myself to help the part, but I’m half a world away. Until then, support the team, and trust in Klopp.

liverpool quality players:

coutinho
sturridge

squad players:

the rest

Simple, easy and spot on.

I don't think any of our other players would walk into any top teams around the world. Couts and Studge could but Studge would need a walker to do it.

Such a thread just perfectly personifies the roller coaster of emotion, borderline bipolar attitudes of this fan forum. We swap the floor at City and Chelsea and we’re on top of the world, good enough to win the league. Then, an obvious downtime of complacency and suddenly people want to sell more than half the time and “bring in 3 or 4 world class players.” Well no sh*t, what team doesn’t want to bring in those 3-4 players, and all teams at this point would virtually be able to compete for the title with that. So much stick gets thrown at the teams with all the money who buy the success, and then those same people insinuate to do the same. Are there players here that are likely not up to par with what we want to see? Absolutely. But that exists in all squads. What we need to keep in mind is we have a top manager, who will evaluate what he has, and will move accordingly. It was never going to be an overnight success, but instead of bemoaning and demeaning the men we have now in red shirts, get behind them. They’ve shown great things before, and I believe they can show them again, even on a more consistent basis. If we want to complain about anything, how about the fact that Anfield still sounds like a morgue for 2/3 of every game, and it takes 2-1 down vs. West Brom to get behind the players. I’d be there myself to help the part, but I’m half a world away. Until then, support the team, and trust in Klopp.

Agreed.
The knee jerking after Watford has really got out of hand.

Of course there is kneejerking after the last few games, but most of these players have been here for a while now and where have we been finishing in the league since Suarez left, Sturridge took up knitting and Gerrard faded into the west? Where are we now... 14 points behind Leicester City.

How many of our players are automatic choices for their countries, then consider the level of the countries some of them come from.

Stick too many average players in a team and you get an average team that finishes in an average position .... Liverpool.

Of course there is kneejerking after the last few games, but most of these players have been here for a while now and where have we been finishing in the league since Suarez left, Sturridge took up knitting and Gerrard faded into the west? Where are we now... 14 points behind Leicester City.

How many of our players are automatic choices for their countries, then consider the level of the countries some of them come from.

Stick too many average players in a team and you get an average team that finishes in an average position .... Liverpool.

The season hasnt finished yet, lets wait and see where we are when it does before deciding we've finished in an average position.

We could do with a bit of luck with injuries though. We've had injuries up the spine of the team all season.

Agreed.
The knee jerking after Watford has really got out of hand.

I don't see it as knee jerking. If you weight up the results so far this season, and last season as well for that matter, then serious questions need to be asked! Why are we being outplayed by supposedly weaker team's? Why are our big money signings not putting in the performances their fee suggests?

I don't see it as knee jerking. If you weight up the results so far this season, and last season as well for that matter, then serious questions need to be asked! Why are we being outplayed by supposedly weaker team's? Why are our big money signings not putting in the performances their fee suggests?

Last season we didnt have a striker. Plus an increasingly lame duck, direction-less manager, who we also started this season with.

I'm not saying we have a fantastic squad, we don't. But its nowhere near as bad as the doom-mongers on here saying. There are people on here literally saying we should clear out the entire squad except for 2 players. If thats not knee-jerking, what is?

We've got a manager who's just come in and is experimenting with different line-ups as he gets to know his players and his new league. He is also having to deal with a lot of injuries. Its not that surprising its been up and down. But it is worth remembering there have been ups as well as downs.

There have been promising signs as well as set-backs. We need to give the manager a bit of time to see what he can do with these players, rather than calling for the heads of 90% of the squad

Can't really argue with most of the selection above, what a horrendous waste of money.

Good enough

Sturridge
Coutinho
Clyne

Squad

Sahko
Ibe
Milner
Skertel
Lucas
Gomez
Lallana
Ings
Henderson
Can
Flanno
Moreno
Skertel
Origi
Mignolet

Not good enough

Allen
Lovren
Benteke
Kolo (sorry)
Bogdan

Firminho - undecided.



We have way too many squad players making the first team IMO.

Absolutely bang on there mate

Well lets see:
Sakho
Clyne
Gomez
Can
Coutinho
Ibe

The season hasnt finished yet, lets wait and see where we are when it does before deciding we've finished in an average position.

We could do with a bit of luck with injuries though. We've had injuries up the spine of the team all season.

I didn't know it started.

I didn't know it started.

Really?Four months have passed,where have you been mate
 

Last season we didnt have a striker. Plus an increasingly lame duck, direction-less manager, who we also started this season with.

I'm not saying we have a fantastic squad, we don't. But its nowhere near as bad as the doom-mongers on here saying. There are people on here literally saying we should clear out the entire squad except for 2 players. If thats not knee-jerking, what is?

We've got a manager who's just come in and is experimenting with different line-ups as he gets to know his players and his new league. He is also having to deal with a lot of injuries. Its not that surprising its been up and down. But it is worth remembering there have been ups as well as downs.

There have been promising signs as well as set-backs. We need to give the manager a bit of time to see what he can do with these players, rather than calling for the heads of 90% of the squad

In Klopp's first summer at Dortmund he sold 6 players and gave 3 more free transfers ,I don't think he is adverse to getting rid of the deadwood any more than we are mate.

I also think there is a big difference between saying a player is only good enough to be a squad player in someone's opinion and them calling for his head.

We have finished top 4 once in the last 6 seasons... that's not winning the league once in 6 seasons which would be bad enough, that's just finishing top 4 once. We have won one trophy since 2006 . We have no World class players now and even with the Mancs and Chelsea in chaos we are lying 9th in the table having just lost to Newcastle and Watford, having earlier lost at home to West ham and Crystal Palace, only scoring once against those 4 teams while conceding 10 goals.

Klopp needs time to work, but his job will be a lot easier if he has more quality players to help him along the way.   

Good Enough
Henderson( still needs to improve) , Sturridge and Coutinho ( still lacks consistency)

Worth Perservering with
Moreno
Can
Ibe
Ings
Clyne
Firminho( only because there has to be  more than the sxxxe he has delivered thus far)
Gomez
Teixera

Good Enough
Henderson( still needs to improve) , Sturridge and Coutinho ( still lacks consistency)

Worth Perservering with
Moreno
Can
Ibe
Ings
Clyne
Firminho( only because there has to be  more than the sxxxe he has delivered thus far)
Gomez
Teixera

Sorry Add Sakho to good enough also

I suppose we have to ask the question, what are we hoping to achieve with this squad?
Are they good enought to qualify for the CL Consistently? Maybe!
Are they good enough to win the premiere league? Maybe they could mount a challenge, but can then do it year in year out? I'd have to say no!

In the short term we should be looking for regular CL qualification while we build a team to complete regularly for the big trophies.

I suppose we have to ask the question, what are we hoping to achieve with this squad?
Are they good enought to qualify for the CL Consistently? Maybe!
Are they good enough to win the premiere league? Maybe they could mount a challenge, but can then do it year in year out? I'd have to say no!

In the short term we should be looking for regular CL qualification while we build a team to complete regularly for the big trophies.

I honestly don't believe this squad (without Sturridge) is good enough to qualify for the CL consistently.  I do think that one of the problems we have had over the last few years has been we have tried to run before we can walk and then when we fall down, we throw the plan out the window and have to start again.

I think our ambitions have been too high for the players we have had and maybe that's why we are now on our 4th manager in 5 years, or is it 5 managers in 6 years ( I'm starting to lose count!). We win three games and Klopp is then asked are we going to win the league, expectation is just too high, while the reality of the problems we have to overcome just get brushed aside. 

Actually, I think we have a bunch of good players who could be good enough for a title winning side, Milner himself won the league with Manchester City, the actual problem is that we seem to lack a world class player, or a leader. No wonder that when we last fought for the title, we had Suarez, Gerrard, and Sturridge... 3 world class players. I mean, we still have Sturridge, but he wasn't injured back then, now it kinda feels like we don't have him anymore.
Apart from Leicester, all the big clubs in the Prem have world class players.

The fact that I haven't seen one post that I can agree with alongside the fact that it's a debate probably says it all really.