The Summer Clearout and Rebuilding the Squad

Not sure we can say who will definitely go yet mate apart from the obvious like Skrtel, Benteke, Canos and probably Ibe.  So far they're the only ones we've had offers for.

More likely Jürgen will wait until we've finished the local pre season games and might even wait till we've done the US ones too.  There'll still be a month before the window closes but players like Alberto and Markovic he's only just started working with and Allen may decide he wants to stay if there's a contract offer.

Fulton is already out on loan, Ward is supposed to be going to Huddersfield so if we lose Bogdan too we're down to 2 senior keepers.

We've turned down a loan for Branners so he's definitely staying,  Barnsley want Ryan Kent although no decision has been made that I know of.

Gomez isn't back to full training yet, he's still in the "no contact phase" of recovery so Lucas or Ilori may be kept until January at least.  Pedro may go on loan but I think Stewart, Randall and Smith may hang around for another season.

I'd say we'll have a better idea by the end of July or early August though.

Agree we don't know, about keeping Lucas and especially the part in bold.

1. I think we have 9 of our first 11 on board (Karius, Clyne, Lovren, Matip, Can, Firminho, Mane, Sturridge, Coutinho)

2. Then add Mignolet, flanagan, Sakho, Gomez, Moreno, Grujic, Henderson,Lucas, Milner, Brannagan, Lallana, Origi, Ings and Ojo as players who will always train with the first team, be under consideration for matchday rosters, play matches, etc. (Markovic might be in this group as well - hoping so myself) and sometimes play with the U21s.

3. Not expecting any of the other younger players to train regularly with the first team, even though a number of them show good potential. Klopp seems to want to keep players here however, so maybe some question about whether Ward, Randall, Smith, Stewart, Chirivella go on loan or play more exclusively with the U21s due to the reduced fixture lists.

That leaves Bogdan, Skertel, Wisdom, Allen, Alberto, Balotelli, Benteke, Canos, maybe Markovic and maybe Ilori to leave, correct?

Then a candidate to start at left back and another for central midfield to come in. That would make 25 in the squad (unless you count the five players in #3). Is that it?

Agree we don't know, about keeping Lucas and especially the part in bold.

1. I think we have 9 of our first 11 on board (Karius, Clyne, Lovren, Matip, Can, Firminho, Mane, Sturridge, Coutinho)

2. Then add Mignolet, flanagan, Sakho, Gomez, Moreno, Grujic, Henderson,Lucas, Milner, Brannagan, Lallana, Origi, Ings and Ojo as players who will always train with the first team, be under consideration for matchday rosters, play matches, etc. (Markovic might be in this group as well - hoping so myself) and sometimes play with the U21s.

3. Not expecting any of the other younger players to train regularly with the first team, even though a number of them show good potential. Klopp seems to want to keep players here however, so maybe some question about whether Ward, Randall, Smith, Stewart, Chirivella go on loan or play more exclusively with the U21s due to the reduced fixture lists.

That leaves Bogdan, Skertel, Wisdom, Allen, Alberto, Balotelli, Benteke, Canos, maybe Markovic and maybe Ilori to leave, correct?

Then a candidate to start at left back and another for central midfield to come in. That would make 25 in the squad (unless you count the five players in #3). Is that it?

I'd say they're the most likely to go but not exclusively mate.  There's also Lloyd Jones, Jack Dunn and Jordan Williams none of whom I've seen in any training pics.  They're still eligible to play at u21s, though I doubt Jordan will play for us again after his Twitter antics in March.

Those you've mentioned though all train with the 1st team regardless, we have 38 training at present with 13 still to return from Internationals, plus Ojo who is away with the England u19s.  The youngsters will still play Youth games if they aren't included in the matchday squads but they don't train at the Academy any more, or at least they didn't last season.

There is also an exclusive group of 14-21 year olds who train at Melwood with Pep Linders.

It's more likely we'll have a core of 30 to 35 or so rather than a definitive 25 man squad.

I'd say they're the most likely to go but not exclusively mate.  There's also Lloyd Jones, Jack Dunn and Jordan Williams none of whom I've seen in any training pics.  They're still eligible to play at u21s, though I doubt Jordan will play for us again after his Twitter antics in March.

Those you've mentioned though all train with the 1st team regardless, we have 38 training at present with 13 still to return from Internationals, plus Ojo who is away with the England u19s.  The youngsters will still play Youth games if they aren't included in the matchday squads but they don't train at the Academy any more, or at least they didn't last season.

There is also an exclusive group of 14-21 year olds who train at Melwood with Pep Linders.

It's more likely we'll have a core of 30 to 35 or so rather than a definitive 25 man squad.

I'm thinking more about those likely to play in competitive matches for the first team when I say 25.

The three you mention (Jones - 20, Dunn  21, Williams 20) I have on my own list as "youth" and I can't see any of them breaking through  Would they be training with Linders at the moment? Likely to be sold/loaned/released?

For that group of U21s you mention (14-21 you said) I have Brooks Lennon, Toni Gomes, Joe Maguire and Connor Masterson as leading lights, along with the guys who were invited in to train last week and played at Tranmere (Kent, Edaria, Alexander-Arnold and Woodburn).

But given the reduced number of matches this season, it would seem that 25-26 is the cap on players playing in competitive, first-team matches. I understand what you are saying about they will still train with the first team.

with that in mind, I'd love to see an article picking Klopp's brain about training and how many players is the max to have on hand and still run an effective training session.

This is absolutely superb news and exactly the right approach to take before sending the lads on loan.

Superb in the sense that our profile has improved massively regarding our young players where instead of League 1 and 2 Clubs wanting our players it's now Championship Clubs. 

The right approach in that instead of just accepting a loan for the sake of it, each offer will be weighed up against what is actually on offer and how or if it'll benefit us and the player.  Taking account of facilities, training methods, game style etc is precisely what we should be doing, otherwise what's the point in them going.

Loan offers pour in for Liverpool FC youngsters but Klopp in no rush to lose them.

    05:00, 11 Jul 2016
    Updated 08:36, 11 Jul 2016
    By James Pearce

Reds boss has a dilemma when it comes to those on the fringes of his squad.

Liverpool have been inundated with loan offers for their top young talent - but Jürgen Klopp intends to take his time before deciding what’s best for their development this season.

Ryan Fulton has joined League One outfit Chesterfield on a season long-loan and fellow keeper Danny Ward is also expected to depart on a temporary basis to gain experience with Huddersfield Town his likely destination.

However, the Reds have so far resisted approaches for a number of outfield players on the fringes of Klopp’s first-team squad.

A host of Championship clubs have registered an interest in Brad Smith but the Australian left-back is unlikely to go anywhere until Liverpool have strengthened in that position.  Ben Chilwell is the club’s top target but they have so far been unable to agree a fee with Leicester City having had a £7million bid rejected.

Ryan Kent, Pedro Chirivella, Kevin Stewart and Connor Randall are among those wanted on loan, while the Reds recently rejected an approach from Wigan for Cameron Brannagan.

Klopp finds himself facing something of a dilemma when it comes to loan deals.

When he first arrived at Melwood last October he was shocked to discover the club had no fewer than 17 players out on loan.  It was a situation completely alien to the former Borussia Dortmund boss, who insisted a club should nurture their own young talent rather than send them elsewhere.

“It is not normal to have players on loan in Germany, but in England it is,” he said.  “I’m not sure it’s always best to give young players to other clubs.  I think it’s a kind of pressure you don’t need at that age.

“Maybe we need to cool down the situation a little bit, hold on to these guys longer and let them play in our second team and develop as a team.”

Prompted by a crippling injury crisis, Klopp then recalled the likes of Kent (Coventry), Sheyi Ojo (Wolves), Stewart (Swindon) and Ward (Aberdeen), who all got first-team opportunities on their return.

However, in the months since Klopp has come to understand more fully why the Reds previously felt the need to send their youngsters far and wide.

Whereas he was used to Dortmund’s under-23s playing in the regionalised third tier of German football, the Under-21s Premier League doesn’t come close to bridging the gap between youth and senior football.  The fixture list is sporadic and matches are often little more than glorified training exercises with little edge or intensity.

Klopp, who also handed game time to Academy rookies Ovie Ejaria, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Ben Woodburn against Tranmere last Friday, wants the club’s best youngsters to spend pre-season with the first-team squad.

He wants to work with them on the training ground, assess where they are up to and leave them in no doubt about what’s required to be part of his long-term plans.

However, after the tour of the States there will be some big decisions to make.  Liverpool’s absence from Europe this season means there will be less need to rotate and less game time for those on the fringes.

Brazilian midfielder Allan Rodrigues de Souza will leave on loan as the Reds are still unable to get a work permit for him but who else follows him out the door is unclear.

The situation is complicated by the scrapping of the emergency loan system in the Football League which means loans now have to be done on a window-to-window basis.  With no more one-month loans or the ability to recall at a moment’s notice, parent clubs will have to think carefully about where their players are heading.

If a loan offer looks appealing Liverpool will send staff to check out a club’s facilities and examine training methods and playing style before giving the green light to it.  It has to be the right fit.

Ultimately, it will come down to what Klopp believes is best for those looking to make the grade at Anfield.

Train at Melwood on a daily basis and make maybe half a dozen senior appearances all season or go elsewhere and get 30 games under your belt in the Championship or League One?

There will certainly be fewer loans sanctioned this summer but for some it will still be the right option in order to ensure they kick on.

I'm thinking more about those likely to play in competitive matches for the first team when I say 25.

The three you mention (Jones - 20, Dunn  21, Williams 20) I have on my own list as "youth" and I can't see any of them breaking through  Would they be training with Linders at the moment? Likely to be sold/loaned/released?

For that group of U21s you mention (14-21 you said) I have Brooks Lennon, Toni Gomes, Joe Maguire and Connor Masterson as leading lights, along with the guys who were invited in to train last week and played at Tranmere (Kent, Edaria, Alexander-Arnold and Woodburn).

But given the reduced number of matches this season, it would seem that 25-26 is the cap on players playing in competitive, first-team matches. I understand what you are saying about they will still train with the first team.

with that in mind, I'd love to see an article picking Klopp's brain about training and how many players is the max to have on hand and still run an effective training session.

I don't think they've been with Pep no mate.  Lloyd was at Blackpool last season, Dunn barely played due to continuing injury problems and Williams was at Swindon until he had a serious injury.  The group training with Pep are for our "elite" teenagers, the most talented and those most likely to succeed into the 1st team.  Doubt they'd be released (maybe Williams) but they could be sold or loaned again or we may keep them for the 21s as we're going to be short of experience at that age group.

It's hard to say who's training with Pep but those who debuted at Tranmere definitely are, and the ones who are in and around the 1st team but there are a lot of much younger lads who we know very little about due to child protection laws.  I believe Liam Coyle has been, now he is one to watch but this article is an insight on who has been and who to keep an eye on http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/5-of-the-best-performers-for-liverpool-u18s-this-season/

I think they'll all get game time, some more than others but if they're still at the Club it's because Jürgen expects them to play.  As the article I've posted above explains by the end of pre season we'll know who is and who isn't in his future plans.

Klopp's right about loaning players. Loans don't work, very rarely do they develop a player. You train with Premier League quality you become Premier League quality. You train and play at a lower level then that's what you get.

I don't think they've been with Pep no mate.  Lloyd was at Blackpool last season, Dunn barely played due to continuing injury problems and Williams was at Swindon until he had a serious injury.  The group training with Pep are for our "elite" teenagers, the most talented and those most likely to succeed into the 1st team.  Doubt they'd be released (maybe Williams) but they could be sold or loaned again or we may keep them for the 21s as we're going to be short of experience at that age group.

It's hard to say who's training with Pep but those who debuted at Tranmere definitely are, and the ones who are in and around the 1st team but there are a lot of much younger lads who we know very little about due to child protection laws.  I believe Liam Coyle has been, now he is one to watch but this article is an insight on who has been and who to keep an eye on http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/5-of-the-best-performers-for-liverpool-u18s-this-season/

I think they'll all get game time, some more than others but if they're still at the Club it's because Jürgen expects them to play.  As the article I've posted above explains by the end of pre season we'll know who is and who isn't in his future plans.

Thanks for the insight.

I thought of you when I saw that article. I noticed the guys wanted on loan are about that same half dozen who have played first team matches but I'm thinking are unlikely to feature much this season. Agree so much about the thought they are clearly putting into this question. Klopp and Co. are definitely thinking long-term - so important.

Thanks for the insight.

I thought of you when I saw that article. I noticed the guys wanted on loan are about that same half dozen who have played first team matches but I'm thinking are unlikely to feature much this season. Agree so much about the thought they are clearly putting into this question. Klopp and Co. are definitely thinking long-term - so important.

Agreed mate.  It's something that has been discussed on here before, that they need to play but sometimes they were sent out to Clubs who didn't always have their best interests at heart and in some case it appeared it was a case of out of sight, out of mind and that's never good for young players.

I hate the loan system it very rarely works .Training everyday with top players has to be better than training an playing with average ones and of course Jürgen can keep an eye on their progress.

I hate the loan system it very rarely works .Training everyday with top players has to be better than training an playing with average ones and of course Jürgen can keep an eye on their progress.

As well as spot their weaknesses early so they get to work on them and improve.

As well as spot their weaknesses early so they get to work on them and improve.

exactly and these kids would feel much more a part of the clubs future being in with the big boys it would be inspiring for them to see and listen to Jürgen each day.

Stockpiling players with no actual plan as to what to do with them is never a good idea

Isn't that exactly what Rafa was accused of?

That said; most of those who have left (or are leaving) this season are really just more failed, inexpensive, gambles or kids. Even further evidence (not that anyone with an IQ higher than a Wombat needs one) of the footballing failure of another bullshit FSG policy.

Isn't that exactly what Rafa was accused of?

That said; most of those who have left (or are leaving) this season are really just more failed, inexpensive, gambles or kids. Even further evidence (not that anyone with an IQ higher than a Wombat needs one) of the footballing failure of another bullshit FSG policy.

No idea about the Rafa comment mate, I always thought Rafa bought and sold to make improvements rather than stockpiling them.  He was like a used car dealer of the football world.

I'm also not sure you're correct that those leaving were/are failed, cheap gambles.  Out of those touted as leaving or already gone Toure, Enrique, Skrtel, Allen, Ibe and possibly Lucas have all played a significant number of games since their arrivals, only Benteke and Balo could be considered gambles but they were hardly inexpensive.

It's early days obviously so your claim could be true when we see Ilori and Alberto sold but 2 out of potentially 20 departures is hardly a failed policy.

Just to say here that I expect Lucas to stay. He wont' be a regular in the starting lineup, or maybe even on the bench, but I think Klopp genuinely likes him and recognize he's a good sort to have around the team. This was true of Kolo as well, but of course there's a difference in age and thus, on-pitch value to the club.

Don't know about this, but hope I'm right. He's a good character.

Just to say here that I expect Lucas to stay. He wont' be a regular in the starting lineup, or maybe even on the bench, but I think Klopp genuinely likes him and recognize he's a good sort to have around the team. This was true of Kolo as well, but of course there's a difference in age and thus, on-pitch value to the club.

Don't know about this, but hope I'm right. He's a good character.

I'd like him to stay too and we've been assuming he'd leave for quite a few years and he's still here so who the hell knows 

I'm also not sure you're correct that those leaving were/are failed, cheap gambles.

What I actually said was "most of those who have left (or are leaving) this season are really just more failed, inexpensive, gambles or kids."

So far... that is true. Although time will tell.

OUT:

Jose Enrique - Released [inexpensive]
Jordan Rossiter - (Rangers) Compensation Payment of £250,000 [Kid]
Dan Cleary - Released  [Kid]
Jerome Sinclair - (Watford) (Rumoured £4M agreement)  [Kid]
Daniel Trickett-Smith - (Sacramento, USA)  [Kid] [inexpensive]
Ryan McLaughlin - Released [Kid]
Kolo Toure - Released [inexpensive]
Joao Teixeira - (FC Porto) Compensation Payment of £250,000  [Kid] [inexpensive]
Samed Yeşil - Released  [Kid] [inexpensive]
Lawrence Vigoroux - Swindon Town [Kid]

only Benteke and Balo could be considered gambles but they were hardly inexpensive.

But wasn't the thing about Benteke that he was a good player but "his game just didn't suit"  [Jürgen's style]? Not really a gamble therefore. Mario was definitely a gamble because he was deemed inexpensive (the old value for money algorithm?) - something which has been referenced a number of times, to be honest.

Klopp's right about loaning players. Loans don't work, very rarely do they develop a player. You train with Premier League quality you become Premier League quality. You train and play at a lower level then that's what you get.

Simple as that really.

What I actually said was "most of those who have left (or are leaving) this season are really just more failed, inexpensive, gambles or kids."

So far... that is true. Although time will tell.

OUT:

Jose Enrique - Released
Jordan Rossiter - (Rangers) Compensation Payment of £250,000
Dan Cleary - Released
Jerome Sinclair - (Watford) (Rumoured £4M agreement)
Daniel Trickett-Smith - (Sacramento, USA)
Ryan McLaughlin - Released
Kolo Toure - Released
Joao Teixeira - (FC Porto) Compensation Payment of £250,000
Samed Yeşil - Released
Lawrence Vigoroux - Swindon Town
But wasn't the thing about Benteke that he was a good player but "his game just didn't suit"  [Jürgen's style]? Not really a gamble therefore. Mario was definitely a gamble because he was deemed inexpensive (the old value for money algorithmic?) - something which has been referenced a number of times, to be honest.

Well that list is just kids as the seniors weren't failures or gambles and we release loads of kids every summer, so this one is no different.

Benteke was a gamble to the fans, maybe not to Brendan but most of us and the rest of the footballing world knew he didn't fit before we bought him, even nice but dim Tim Sherwood questioned why we targeted him and he was his current Manager.

Balo was a disaster in every way, shape and form from day one and thankfully not something we've done since, so hopefully a lesson has been learned.

Look I know all you want is to see us winning again, we all do mate, I'm just glad Jürgen is focusing his efforts on how to put the mess right.  I couldn't really give a F**k what happened in the past, I'm more interested in what happens from now and into the future.

Well that list is just kids as the seniors weren't failures or gambles and we release loads of kids every summer, so this one is no different.

Benteke was a gamble to the fans, maybe not to Brendan but most of us and the rest of the footballing world knew he didn't fit before we bought him, even nice but dim Tim Sherwood questioned why we targeted him and he was his current Manager.

Balo was a disaster in every way, shape and form from day one and thankfully not something we've done since, so hopefully a lesson has been learned.

Look I know all you want is to see us winning again, we all do mate, I'm just glad Jürgen is focusing his efforts on how to put the mess right.  I couldn't really give a F**k what happened in the past, I'm more interested in what happens from now and into the future.

It's a weird feeling seeing some of the young lads getting released every year after watching them in the under-18's/under-21's for a number of years. Seriously hope they go on to do great things at whatever level they find themselves playing at.

What I actually said was "most of those who have left (or are leaving) this season are really just more failed, inexpensive, gambles or kids."

So far... that is true. Although time will tell.

OUT:

Jose Enrique - Released [inexpensive]
Jordan Rossiter - (Rangers) Compensation Payment of £250,000 [Kid]
Dan Cleary - Released  [Kid]
Jerome Sinclair - (Watford) (Rumoured £4M agreement)  [Kid]
Daniel Trickett-Smith - (Sacramento, USA)  [Kid] [inexpensive]
Ryan McLaughlin - Released [Kid]
Kolo Toure - Released [inexpensive]
Joao Teixeira - (FC Porto) Compensation Payment of £250,000  [Kid] [inexpensive]
Samed Yeşil - Released  [Kid] [inexpensive]
Lawrence Vigoroux - Swindon Town [Kid]
But wasn't the thing about Benteke that he was a good player but "his game just didn't suit"  [Jürgen's style]? Not really a gamble therefore. Mario was definitely a gamble because he was deemed inexpensive (the old value for money algorithm?) - something which has been referenced a number of times, to be honest.

There's some highly rated ex-youngsters in that list. Can't believe we only got back 1/4 of the fee we originally paid for Teixeira!

It's a weird feeling seeing some of the young lads getting released every year after watching them in the under-18's/under-21's for a number of years. Seriously hope they go on to do great things at whatever level they find themselves playing at.

It's always hard to see them go mate, they're a bit like puppies (baby dogs before anyone thinks otherwise) you get very attached to them and then get sad when they leave. 

I do think sometimes we hold onto them for too long though as that can harm them and their chance of success more than letting them go early.  I know they don't develop at the same time and it's still sometimes difficult to say at 17/18 who can push on and who won't but I can't understand holding onto them beyond 19/20 like we have in the past.

Well that list is just kids as the seniors weren't failures or gambles and we release loads of kids every summer, so this one is no different.

No problem debs.

I guess it all depends what 'one' defines as "failure"... for me the "seniors" let go, so far, brought us very little tangible success [titles trophies] in their time here. As for the 'kids' yeah... par for the course; with very few even making the match-day squad regularly - I see that as failure. The fact that it happens every summer doesn't change that. Remember too (when it comes to the kids) this?...

"Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years. Our emphasis will be on developing our own players..." - John W Henry.

I suppose, if I'm being fair, [and I want to be] - if 'number of appearances' is a measure of worth then, certainly, some of the players who may be leaving won't have failed - whether that will be most tho'; I'm not sure. 

Six years; 3 managers; 40+ players; £400m [club money] spent and only 1 F***ing trophy = failure in my books but...

You are right debs - all I want is to see us winning again.

No problem debs.

I guess it all depends what 'one' defines as "failure"... for me the "seniors" let go, so far, brought us very little tangible success [titles trophies] in their time here. As for the 'kids' yeah... par for the course; with very few even making the match-day squad regularly - I see that as failure. The fact that it happens every summer doesn't change that.

Remember, when it comes to the kids - this? "Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years. Our emphasis will be on developing our own players..." - John W Henry.

I suppose, if I'm being fair, [and I want to be] - if 'number of appearances' is a measure of worth then, certainly, some of the players who may be leaving won't have failed - whether that will be most tho'; I'm not sure. 

Six years; 3 managers; 40+ players; £400m [club money] spent and only 1 F***ing trophy = failure in my books but...

You are right debs - want is to see us winning again.

I agree with all that mate, I just can't be arsed keep harping back to what we've done in the past instead of looking forward to how it's changed. 

And I know that some still aren't satisfied or think that it hasn't changed but we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet so it's all mute at this point.

And I know that some still aren't satisfied or think that it hasn't changed but we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet so it's all mute at this point.

I see nothing moot  about explaining my take on what has (and still is) happening - 'if we don't learn lessons from the past we are doomed to repeat them' but I get your drift. 

To that extent I can't remain mute    . Catch you later debs... I'm venturing outside on my own for a wee while.