The Summer Clearout and Rebuilding the Squad

Getting rid of Can or Moreno at this stage would be ridiculous.

What because they're eminently brilliant? Two of our worst offenders.

Get rids

Tiago Ilori
Adam Lallana
Simon Mignolet
Jordan Henderson( I know I will get backlash for wanting rid of Hendo, I find him over rated and he has one reasonable season where Suarez made the whole team look good)
José Enrique
Kolo Touré
Dejan Lovren
Christian Benteke
Alberto Moreno
Emre Can
Ádám Bogdán

Lallana, Henderson, Can & Moreno will all be playing next season.

What because they're eminently brilliant? Two of our worst offenders.

Meh. Our supporters have short memories.

Lallana, Henderson, Can & Moreno will all be playing next season.

It wouldn't surprise me if Lallana was sold. The other three will definitely be playing here next season, yes.

Why? Allen and Lucas can do Cans role and Flanagan or Smith can be left back instead of Moreno. That is like saying getting rid of Benteke at this stage would be ridiculous when Firmino, Ojo maybe soon Origi and Sturridge will all the ahead of him in the pecking order.

Rodgers has come out and said he thinks Can will be able to get into any team in the world at his peak, Klopp plays him every week, Sami Hyypia was full of praise for him, Leverkusen were disappointed to sell him cheaply to us, Bayern Munich were annoyed that Leverkusen sold him because it meant any chance of buying him back at a reasonable price was gone, he was one of the standout players in the u21s last summer, and he's been called up to the German squad. At this point in his career Emre Can shouldn't be playing every week, but he's definitely a player who is worth having in our squad. There's a reason why he's seemingly quite highly rated by everyone involved in football. Yes, he makes stupid decisions and is prone to an error, but the talent is clearly there. If Klopp can develop him well, and going by his past record he probably can, we'll have a star on our hands, someone who is much better than either Allen or Lucas. Allen and Lucas are hardly faultless either. I'd rather see Emre Can in the side making mistakes, learning, and developing, than Lucas and Allen in the side making slightly fewer mistakes when they have a very limited ceiling. This is especially true in a season where the league is gone and we're really only playing for pride in that competition.

The Benteke comparison isn't a very good one because Klopp clearly rates Emre Can (or at least thinks he's better than Lucas and Allen) and Klopp clearly regards Emre Can as someone who can play the type of football that he wants to play. Not so with Benteke.

I originally intended to stay off this forum for a month until at least after the league cup final because I found that I was posting too much quantity of useless posts and getting distracted. But over the past couple of days particularly in light of Leicester, I found myself coming back to this forum to read the opinions of many (credit to the quality of the forum!) and becoming more distracted by the fact that I want to contribute my opinions! I realise I have to give my two cents on this issue. I might be posting less than I use to but in doing so I hope to be posting better stuff that I think is worthy of the forum!

With regards to a ‘clearout’ in the summer I find myself in broad agreement with Si and Barney on this. I find it totally impractical that anyone would think it realistic to sell off effectively the whole first team and buy in another new team. The idea that we would sell all/most of Benteke, Can, Milner, Lallana, Lovren, Henderson, Mignolet etc is just not going to happen.

There is no doubt that these regulars should be performing at a much higher level and they’ve been very poor and ineffective but the lists of sales we should conduct is mere hyperbole and knee jerking in amidst a storm of poor performances. Looking at it relatively, no side with the horror injury show we’ve had this season can be expected to sustain a level of performance that is consistent or acceptable. Where we are in the league is totally representative of our play and our injury situation. I’m not accepting the situation but we must weigh it with the harsh luck and realities we’ve faced. The constant chopping and changing that is enforced as a result of injuries will eventually erode and break the understandings, dynamics and good decision making that will be produced out of playing in a settled side.

If I were to draw up a fully fit squad of this Liverpool FC side I would look at it and think it has the youth, development and ability to challenge for the top 4 and go well beyond that with the signing of two-three top drawer players. Most of the players we have now are players who can offer graft and support but don’t have the marquee nature to dictate which result will fall into our hands. There is a good support group/basis there already. It’s like we’ve hired a good cast of supporting actors, but we are still to cast the lead actors. Only with the catalytic spark of a lead actor can we fully appreciate the dynamics and effectiveness of our support players most of whom are already here at the club.   

Players will leave in the summer but a ‘clearout’ in the form of a mass exodus of first team players would be counterproductive and we’ll find ourselves stuck in square one permanently.

Meh. Our supporters have short memories.

It wouldn't surprise me if Lallana was sold. The other three will definitely be playing here next season, yes.

Rodgers has come out and said he thinks Can will be able to get into any team in the world at his peak, Klopp plays him every week, Sami Hyypia was full of praise for him, Leverkusen were disappointed to sell him cheaply to us, Bayern Munich were annoyed that Leverkusen sold him because it meant any chance of buying him back at a reasonable price was gone, he was one of the standout players in the u21s last summer, and he's been called up to the German squad. At this point in his career Emre Can shouldn't be playing every week, but he's definitely a player who is worth having in our squad. There's a reason why he's seemingly quite highly rated by everyone involved in football. Yes, he makes stupid decisions and is prone to an error, but the talent is clearly there. If Klopp can develop him well, and going by his past record he probably can, we'll have a star on our hands, someone who is much better than either Allen or Lucas. Allen and Lucas are hardly faultless either. I'd rather see Emre Can in the side making mistakes, learning, and developing, than Lucas and Allen in the side making slightly fewer mistakes when they have a very limited ceiling. This is especially true in a season where the league is gone and we're really only playing for pride in that competition.

The Benteke comparison isn't a very good one because Klopp clearly rates Emre Can (or at least thinks he's better than Lucas and Allen) and Klopp clearly regards Emre Can as someone who can play the type of football that he wants to play. Not so with Benteke.

That is because Can was good for his age. Borini was good for his age but look how that went, Balotelli, Suso, Pachecco infact I can sit here and list atleast 30 players that were good for their age but didn't materialize into a decent premier league standard. Unless he is a slow peaker, at 22 he isn't going to get any more than 25% better.

That is because Can was good for his age. Borini was good for his age but look how that went, Balotelli, Suso, Pachecco infact I can sit here and list atleast 30 players that were good for their age but didn't materialize into a decent premier league standard. Unless he is a slow peaker, at 22 he isn't going to get any more than 25% better.

Can to me looks like a utility player to use from the bench. He can "play" in a number of positions, but not effectively. One to cover for injuries or tiredness maybe, but nothing like a major role. Like I mentioned before, my hopes were he would become Gerrard-esque. Box to box. Tackling. Goals. He hasn't delivered anything like any of these. He just doesn't cut it IMO in a team aspiring to hit CL qualification at minimum, year in year out.

That is because Can was good for his age. Borini was good for his age but look how that went, Balotelli, Suso, Pachecco infact I can sit here and list atleast 30 players that were good for their age but didn't materialize into a decent premier league standard. Unless he is a slow peaker, at 22 he isn't going to get any more than 25% better.

All of the things that were said about him, being called up to the Germany squad, bossing the u21s, took place in the past year. It's not ancient history. We've also seen Emre Can play very well for us this season. Emre Can is a much better player than Borini, Suso, Pacheco, etc. To lump him in with them is ridiculous. He's already decent premier league standard. In Germany he played regularly for a Champions League team. He's a good player. It's ridiculous to say he won't get more than 25% better. He might not, but he has every chance at getting better than that. Emre Can shouldn't be starting every week for us (yet), but he'd be a fantastic 3rd or 4th choice who has the ability to go on and become 1st or 2nd choice.

Can to me looks like a utility player to use from the bench. He can "play" in a number of positions, but not effectively. One to cover for injuries or tiredness maybe, but nothing like a major role. Like I mentioned before, my hopes were he would become Gerrard-esque. Box to box. Tackling. Goals. He hasn't delivered anything like any of these. He just doesn't cut it IMO in a team aspiring to hit CL qualification at minimum, year in year out.

If you're hoping that any player is going to become Gerrard-esque, you're likely to be let down. He's one of the four or five best footballers to have ever played for us. Emre Can is 22. To even come close to writing him off at this point is insane. He's shown that he can play in a team that is in the Champions League at Leverkusen.

Lallana, Henderson, Can & Moreno will all be playing next season.

And I used to think you were an optimist

All of the things that were said about him, being called up to the Germany squad, bossing the u21s, took place in the past year. It's not ancient history. We've also seen Emre Can play very well for us this season. Emre Can is a much better player than Borini, Suso, Pacheco, etc. To lump him in with them is ridiculous. He's already decent premier league standard. In Germany he played regularly for a Champions League team. He's a good player. It's ridiculous to say he won't get more than 25% better. He might not, but he has every chance at getting better than that. Emre Can shouldn't be starting every week for us (yet), but he'd be a fantastic 3rd or 4th choice who has the ability to go on and become 1st or 2nd choice.

If you're hoping that any player is going to become Gerrard-esque, you're likely to be let down. He's one of the four or five best footballers to have ever played for us. Emre Can is 22. To even come close to writing him off at this point is insane. He's shown that he can play in a team that is in the Champions League at Leverkusen.

What's being 22 got to do with anything? And I said Gerrard -esque, not the next Gerrard. No-one would expect that.

And I used to think you were an optimist

I could have said Migs Gary

From the first team I would sell Benteke, Balotelli, Lucas and Lovern. Surely get 50 mil for that lot. New CB new DM new winger and a new CF

I could have said Migs Gary

Now you're just trying to frighten me

Summer clearout, would these include our coaches and general backroom staff also?

If so, we could be here a while.

Starting with Achterburg I hope.

Sell Benteke to China. They might give us a 100 million quid, the stoopid fuckers!

Executive Summary:  NOT A SINGLE PLAYER COULD MAKE ARSENAL'S STARTING 11   Coutinho and Henderson might get a sniff at City and Chelsea but our best player Coutinho would have no chance of displacing Sanchez and Ozil in any one's mind.

Sterling was never, or is he now "World Class" Suarez, and Sturrigde carried the team,Now we do not have Suarez, and Sturrigde injured more often than not.... BTW agree with you completely when you say  NOT A SINGLE PLAYER COULD MAKE ARSENAL'S STARTING 11

I'd say the vast majority of what we see as our first team squad will still be here next season with maybe one or two moved on and possibly one or two big surprises leaving the club.

We will see a lot of players moving on but it'll be mostly fringe players while we keep the squad together and add three/four of the managers choices.

If we can more on four or more (inclueding two strikers) of these It will be a great window for us

The real question in all this is if these players are released, will we replace them with upgraded replacements or go for more unproven potential? It's not the 'outs' that worry me, it's the 'ins'.

I do not trust managers as a whole (They have to earn that from me) but in this case I trust Jürgen, the problem for me is will FSG back him in the players he wants... Also it is not just about the players next window we need better Scouts, and rid of the Transfer Committee

I do not trust managers as a whole (They have to earn that from me) but in this case I trust Jürgen, the problem for me is will FSG back him in the players he wants... Also it is not just about the players next window we need better Scouts, and rid of the Transfer Committee

Have JWH&Co ever backed any manager realistically? While the TC is ruled by finance and quick solution they are as much use as a teaspoon in a flood.

edit: Summer clear outs? Squad rebuilding? No way Jose.

It's going to, as always, come down to money.

We could easily have a clear out, and f**king hell do we need one, but the sort of money we spent on these players makes it a lot harder to just ship them off. Are we gonna take a 10 million loss on Lovren? 15 on Lallana? 20 on Benteke? especially after we took around a 15 million loss on Downing and around 20 million on Carroll - eventually FSG are going to want to a return on their investments. But because we've spent so much on them, getting that back as a return is nigh on impossible.

Then, there's who the f**k is gonna want these players and give them the sort of wages we pay. Enrique proved that the other day. F**k first team football at Newcastle, I'd rather get a bigger pay cheque at Liverpool. Borini proved it, f**k playing for Sunderland, I'm gonna stay on double the wages at Liverpool and just claim to "fight for my place...even though the manager has made it abundantly clear that I have no future at Liverpool."

The clubs who can afford the prices we paid and the wages we dish up to these players, aren't going to want them because they're not good enough for top clubs. To be totally honest, even midtable sides like West Ham and Stoke, who've both spent a fair bit recently, would be hard pushed to want them.

We made £40m on Raheem Sterling and £22.5m on Luis Suarez we are £22.5m up on the players you have named above, but that is peanut compared to what we would miss out on not being in the European competitions especially the CL….

As for who would buy the players? Smaller teams around Europe and newly promoted Premier League teams, and if not there is always the Chinese league... They seem to want to buy every player going and ware willing to pay over the top for them …

Now as for the “Big” check grabs…

Tell them that They have no further at the club[and that they will remain in the reserve but never again be picked for the first team squad even if there are injuries. Point out that if they chose to stay and pick up the checks they will be cutting their careers short as they will not be playing any type of competitive football and that when their contract finally expires that they will be released and that most manager will have forgotten about them, and not having played competitive football in so long they will lack match fitness, have loss pace, touch,sharpness and stamina and that IF they should they be lucky enough to be signed by a club; they will never again be offered a lucrative contract 

There is no way there are going to be wholesale changes the way everyone is hoping. If you think we can clear a team of largely mediocre players then go out and replace them with superstars then you’re wrong.

My main moves in the transfer market would be to ship out Balotelli and Benteke and spend that entire amount on a new striker (especially with the wages that would free up) also get in a new centre back. Just spend big on two players for once rather than signing 15 £10m players.

There are some great bargains out there for very little money... Take Jefferson Montreo for instance,can play LB/RB/LM/RM
Pacey and has goals in him, now playing at Swansea (Injured) had a good World Cup was plying his trade in the Mexican League we cloud have bought him for as little as £4m, as least as good if not better than Moreno ..... Enner Valencia £12m vs £32m for the lump equally as good in the air, faster and more mobile.... Riyad Mahrez £400k.....

We don't have to spend big... We just have to spend smart

A completely new set of Central Defenders please?

I don't trust any of these players for the course of a long season.

This is a daunting thread, there are so many changes I'd want to see happen.

Top priorities

Goalkeeper, midfielder and striker