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      A Unique Position

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      Passportboy
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      A Unique Position
      Feb 08, 2016 10:54:41 am
      I have been mulling this over for a while, and I believe that we are in a very unique position as a club -  and it could if we are clever really play into our hands for next season...

      Lets be honest, our season has gone a little differently than we would have liked with a manager sacked and a significant injury list. With 13 games left we sit in 9th place with a 12 point gap to the covered 4th spot and Champs League. We, by virtue of the League Cup, have a spot in the Europa (unless City drop 6 points to Utd and fall out of CL places) so no real need to push for 5th place.

      So – why don’t we start blooding some of these young players in and giving the first team players a chance to get back to full fitness and be ready for the new season.

      Im not saying throw the towel in, far from it... I also appreciate that some of the first team will want / need games to keep in form and upto the level they are used too – the FA cup and Europa will become their competitions in essence.

      The benefits for me outweigh the risks;

      We could unearth a few gems in the youth setup (Tex, Yesil, Brannagan, Illori)
            If we don’t, we put a lot of players who may never make it in the shop window to bolster transfer funds

         Out First team players will be a lot fitter and used to the pressure of the new style for next season (Sturridge, Origi, Hendo)
            They can adapt their training for this system to be ready for this from now to September
         
         The cups will get the best players with a chance we may even be able to field very strong teams without injury worries
            No issues on 3 games a week for some players as the rotation would be massive

      I know this wont happen but even on a smaller scale would this not be worth us trying to do..?
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #1: Feb 08, 2016 10:59:25 am
      Makes sense.

      But I wonder what the 45,000 fans at Anfield who pay £50 every week will think watching Randall & Stewart play.
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #2: Feb 08, 2016 11:05:23 am
      Makes sense.

      But I wonder what the 45,000 fans at Anfield who pay £50 every week will think watching Randall & Stewart play.

      In the case of Randall I think they would be happy to see some young local players given the chance over players like Lallana, Moreno, Benteke and Migs who have delivered nothing this season... Stewart is a London based player, but still from the youth setup and again I would rather see him get a chance over some of the dross we have put out.

      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #3: Feb 08, 2016 11:26:28 am
      I think we'll see one or two fairly well integrated by the end of the season mate.

      Some of the youngsters who've been playing in the FA Cup games have shown they can be relied on when needed and at this stage of their development that's all that's required, certainly with the younger ones. 

      Do that consistently, for the whole game and they'll start to be selected regularly.
      HScRed1
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #4: Feb 08, 2016 11:32:07 am
      Makes sense.

      But I wonder what the 45,000 fans at Anfield who pay £50 every week will think watching Randall & Stewart play.

      What a DM who can actually run, nah the faithful will hate it!
      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #5: Feb 08, 2016 11:36:36 am
      Makes sense.

      But I wonder what the 45,000 fans at Anfield who pay £50 every week will think watching Randall & Stewart play.

      They shouldn't care if we start playing better football and are actually winning games.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #6: Feb 08, 2016 11:51:35 am
      They shouldn't care if we start playing better football and are actually winning games.

      Ok. Derby is coming up in a few weeks. Shall we play the cup team that played down at Exeter then? Will we play better football and win?

      Despite how sh*t our first 11 is at the moment I wouldn't be very happy watching a youth/inexperienced team for the rest of the season in PL games that I pay a fortune for every week.

      The young lads have done ok in the cups but haven't exactly been convincing apart from Exeter at home. We've scraped through a few rounds to be honest.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #7: Feb 08, 2016 11:52:13 am
      What a DM who can actually run, nah the faithful will hate it!

      Are you actually suggesting playing Stewart ahead of Lucas?

      Or that the Kop would prefer that?

      What a load of bollocks.
      HScRed1
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #8: Feb 08, 2016 11:56:55 am
      Are you actually suggesting playing Stewart ahead of Lucas?

      Or that the Kop would prefer that?

      What a load of bollocks.

      Well if we won with Stewart playing I can gaurantee you the kop would be happy.
      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #9: Feb 08, 2016 11:57:31 am
      Ok. Derby is coming up in a few weeks. Shall we play the cup team that played down at Exeter then? Will we play better football and win?

      Despite how sh*t our first 11 is at the moment I wouldn't be very happy watching a youth/inexperienced team for the rest of the season in PL games that I pay a fortune for every week.

      The young lads have done ok in the cups but haven't exactly been convincing apart from Exeter at home. We've scraped through a few rounds to be honest.

      The thread isn't about that though is it?  It's about starting to integrate one or two into the league games, not play an u21s starting 11.
      SM
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #10: Feb 08, 2016 11:59:47 am
      I want to see committed players, ones willing to bust their bollox off for the shirt.

      I don't care if they are 18 or 28, if they are good enough play them.

      Cant do a lot worse than what our so called international players are giving us.
      heimdall
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #11: Feb 08, 2016 12:01:09 pm
      I'm not sure anyone is advocating changing the whole team but I'm all for playing a few of the youngsters and see how they get on, we might as well, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain. Think of it as a return to Rafa's rotation :-)
      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #12: Feb 08, 2016 12:10:32 pm
      I saw Fowler, Owen and Gerrard when they were kids and it was clear early on they had a big future I haven't seen any of our current crop of youngsters that are even close to forcing their way into a first team position and then making it their own.
      Its the old dilemma of not having enough experience but not getting the game time to gain it.  I think Jürgen has been good in giving a lot of these lads a chance and I expect he will do the same again next season. Its unlikely we will go on a ten game winning streak in the league but until the top four is gone we have to keep trying.
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #13: Feb 08, 2016 12:33:41 pm
      The thread isn't about that though is it?  It's about starting to integrate one or two into the league games, not play an u21s starting 11.

      That was my point - I wouldn't envisage the under 21's starting every prem game - but having 2 or more a game mixed in (not just given 5 mins at the end).

      The point really was, I guess - should we carry on playing the lads who have delivered the results we have had this far or really see how the academy is developing and get some options?

      Are you actually suggesting playing Stewart ahead of Lucas?

      Or that the Kop would prefer that?

      What a load of bollocks.

      Lets be honest here - if we had signed Vardy and played him would you have liked that..? How do we know how good these players are until they get a run of games? They wont get this at the start of next season and 2 games at the end of this season will be pointless...

      Reality is we are 9th in the league with almost nothing to play for so blooding youngsters may be a way of taking something out of this season into the next 3 or 4. What do we gain by playing the current crop we have week in week out?
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #14: Feb 08, 2016 12:49:57 pm
      That was my point - I wouldn't envisage the under 21's starting every prem game - but having 2 or more a game mixed in (not just given 5 mins at the end).

      The point really was, I guess - should we carry on playing the lads who have delivered the results we have had this far or really see how the academy is developing and get some options?

      Lets be honest here - if we had signed Vardy and played him would you have liked that..? How do we know how good these players are until they get a run of games? They wont get this at the start of next season and 2 games at the end of this season will be pointless...

      Reality is we are 9th in the league with almost nothing to play for so blooding youngsters may be a way of taking something out of this season into the next 3 or 4. What do we gain by playing the current crop we have week in week out?

      I've no idea what Jamie Vardy has got to do with this thread.

      As Walt says, when Gerrard Owen and Fowler broke into the team you could tell from the first time they touched the ball they were special talents.

      Who out of our youth/reserves do you think is good enough to play for Liverpool on what you've seen so far? Because we've scraped past a couple of rounds in the cups by playing the kids, against mediocre/poor opposition and not one has stood out. Ibe has been the best player out the lot in those teams yet he looks completely out of place in a proper PL game.

      As I said before regardless of how sh*t we are at the moment, I don't think you can ask the paying fan who goes week in week out to sit there and watch our reserves or youth team players every week. How do you think a season ticket holder would feel with that? Paying £800 at the start of the season and then mid season just sulking and f**king everything off, dropping everyone and playing a few kids just to see if they can win a game.

       
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #15: Feb 08, 2016 12:52:16 pm
      It would be a big decision.

      Are we really prepared to write off top four already? Previous managers woudl have been cricified for doing so.

      If so I would definitely like to see a lot more of Ojo and Smith on the pitch  - they have both delivered in the brioef chances they have been given.
      HScRed1
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #16: Feb 08, 2016 12:54:05 pm
      I've no idea what Jamie Vardy has got to do with this thread.

      As Walt says, when Gerrard Owen and Fowler broke into the team you could tell from the first time they touched the ball they were special talents.

      Who out of our youth/reserves do you think is good enough to play for Liverpool on what you've seen so far? Because we've scraped past a couple of rounds in the cups by playing the kids, against mediocre/poor opposition and not one has stood out. Ibe has been the best player out the lot in those teams yet he looks completely out of place in a proper PL game.

      As I said before regardless of how sh*t we are at the moment, I don't think you can ask the paying fan who goes week in week out to sit there and watch our reserves or youth team players every week. How do you think a season ticket holder would feel with that? Paying £800 at the start of the season and then mid season just sulking and f**king everything off, dropping everyone and playing a few kids just to see if they can win a game.

       

      Apart from yourself I would have thought most season holders would be happy and excited to see the likes of Ojo or even Kent get a run out rather than the plods Lallana and Milner.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #17: Feb 08, 2016 01:03:49 pm
      Apart from yourself I would have thought most season holders would be happy and excited to see the likes of Ojo or even Kent get a run out rather than the plods Lallana and Milner.

      Don't rate Lallana or Milner to be honest but I'm not confident Ojo or Kent have what it takes to play for Liverpool either from what I've seen of them so far.

      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #18: Feb 08, 2016 01:11:31 pm
      I've no idea what Jamie Vardy has got to do with this thread.

      As Walt says, when Gerrard Owen and Fowler broke into the team you could tell from the first time they touched the ball they were special talents.

      Who out of our youth/reserves do you think is good enough to play for Liverpool on what you've seen so far? Because we've scraped past a couple of rounds in the cups by playing the kids, against mediocre/poor opposition and not one has stood out. Ibe has been the best player out the lot in those teams yet he looks completely out of place in a proper PL game.

      As I said before regardless of how sh*t we are at the moment, I don't think you can ask the paying fan who goes week in week out to sit there and watch our reserves or youth team players every week. How do you think a season ticket holder would feel with that? Paying £800 at the start of the season and then mid season just sulking and f**king everything off, dropping everyone and playing a few kids just to see if they can win a game.

       

      Our Youth doesn't have to be of the quality of Owen, Fowler or Stevie though, yes it's great when we get those types coming through but we should still be able to utilise the odd one or two for rotation purposes otherwise we just keep going out wasting money on more squaddies.

      As for the fans, I think you're looking at it from a personal pov or from the perspective of someone coming to Anfield for the first time, or who doesn't get there very often or maybe from abroad as most of the regulars I know are crying out for the Academy lads to get a chance to show what they're capable of.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #19: Feb 08, 2016 01:28:22 pm
      Our Youth doesn't have to be of the quality of Owen, Fowler or Stevie though, yes it's great when we get those types coming through but we should still be able to utilise the odd one or two for rotation purposes otherwise we just keep going out wasting money on more squaddies.

      As for the fans, I think you're looking at it from a personal pov or from the perspective of someone coming to Anfield for the first time, or who doesn't get there very often or maybe from abroad as most of the regulars I know are crying out for the Academy lads to get a chance to show what they're capable of.

      It does have to be that standard of quality though otherwise we just have another Jay Spearing or Martin Kelly on our books. We are guilty of rating our players well over the top, especially ones that are scouse or are brought up from the academy. Flanno is the perfect example. Reading the comments on here you would think he is the best full back the world has ever seen but in reality he is very average and pretty basic but we love him because he wears his heart on his sleeve.

      Usually you can tell quite quickly if a footballer is special. You can see that raw talent in them. Might be on my own here but I've seen nothing from our younger lads or reserves to suggest they are good enough or will be good enough to perform at the highest standard.

      I can say with confidence that Randall for example will be playing championship/league 1 football sooner than later. Harsh, but true.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #20: Feb 08, 2016 01:51:16 pm
      Personally, I'm all for this but it has to be limited a little.  There is no sense in rotating the lot as we wouldn't have any frame of reference for the young lads to play to. However, if we rotate 2 or 3 each game and see how they perform alongside the "senior" players then we'll have a good barometer for which (if any) of the young lads have what it takes. 

      As you mention, it would also allow us to keep our best players fresh and play them in the more important cup games that we actually have something to play for....
      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #21: Feb 08, 2016 02:06:36 pm
      It does have to be that standard of quality though otherwise we just have another Jay Spearing or Martin Kelly on our books. We are guilty of rating our players well over the top, especially ones that are scouse or are brought up from the academy. Flanno is the perfect example. Reading the comments on here you would think he is the best full back the world has ever seen but in reality he is very average and pretty basic but we love him because he wears his heart on his sleeve.

      Usually you can tell quite quickly if a footballer is special. You can see that raw talent in them. Might be on my own here but I've seen nothing from our younger lads or reserves to suggest they are good enough or will be good enough to perform at the highest standard.

      I can say with confidence that Randall for example will be playing championship/league 1 football sooner than later. Harsh, but true.


      That's an absolutely ridiculous statement to make and shows how little you know about Youth football.

      "Prodigy's" coming straight out of an Academy into 1st team football at 18/19 are very, very rare, not unheard of obviously but still very rare.  To produce 1st team level teenagers, ready for the PL is virtually impossible and even at prodigy level there is still so much that can go wrong in those early years that even they can fall by the wayside.

      Occasionally, in the past, there have been more than a few who came through together, the class of 92, Messi, Xavi and Inniesta to name a couple but since then - maybe the German NT that emerged recently but that was down to their FA deciding to take matters into their own hands.

      What we should be able to rely on the Academy to do is bring through 1 or 2 every 3-5 seasons who are capable of earning a squad place, eventually becoming a 1st team regular and hope that every now and then we get a superstar and then keep hold of them. 

      As for producing lower league level players, we've at least helped them fulfill their dreams of becoming professional footballers.  About 1 in 5000 coming through any Academy will make it at the very highest level, so I agree that most of the lads we've seen so far won't be good enough but we won't know who until they get the chance.

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #22: Feb 08, 2016 02:28:17 pm
      That's an absolutely ridiculous statement to make and shows how little you know about Youth football.

      "Prodigy's" coming straight out of an Academy into 1st team football at 18/19 are very, very rare, not unheard of obviously but still very rare.  To produce 1st team level teenagers, ready for the PL is virtually impossible and even at prodigy level there is still so much that can go wrong in those early years that even they can fall by the wayside.

      Occasionally, in the past, there have been more than a few who came through together, the class of 92, Messi, Xavi and Inniesta to name a couple but since then - maybe the German NT that emerged recently but that was down to their FA deciding to take matters into their own hands.

      What we should be able to rely on the Academy to do is bring through 1 or 2 every 3-5 seasons who are capable of earning a squad place, eventually becoming a 1st team regular and hope that every now and then we get a superstar and then keep hold of them. 

      As for producing lower league level players, we've at least helped them fulfill their dreams of becoming professional footballers.  About 1 in 5000 coming through any Academy will make it at the very highest level, so I agree that most of the lads we've seen so far won't be good enough but we won't know who until they get the chance.

      So while you admit that our youth players aren't good enough we should just go ahead and play them anyway? Why?

      They might look half decent playing in an U21 or an U18s game but putting them on the Anfield pitch with 45,000 spectators and playing against a proper experienced PL side then its a completely different game. How is it a ridiculous statement? Usually you can tell pretty much immediately if a player is special. Owen, Fowler, Gerrard all had that magic about them. Rooney did at the blueshite. Even defenders like Ashley Cole & John Terry were special when they broke into their senior teams. Everton signed a 19 year old Stones who looked special straight away. Its more rare actually that a player goes through his career without getting noticed and then suddenly turns into a world beater over night - like Jamie Vardy.

      The first time I saw Jay Spearing play for Liverpool I knew he wouldn't make it. I can say the same about several of our current youth players and would be happy to place a bet with you right now and see where they are in 5 years time. Seems pointless though as you've confessed yourself they aren't good enough yet you insist on playing them?



      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #23: Feb 08, 2016 02:50:02 pm
      So while you admit that our youth players aren't good enough we should just go ahead and play them anyway? Why?

      They might look half decent playing in an U21 or an U18s game but putting them on the Anfield pitch with 45,000 spectators and playing against a proper experienced PL side then its a completely different game. How is it a ridiculous statement? Usually you can tell pretty much immediately if a player is special. Owen, Fowler, Gerrard all had that magic about them. Rooney did at the blueshite. Even defenders like Ashley Cole & John Terry were special when they broke into their senior teams. Everton signed a 19 year old Stones who looked special straight away. Its more rare actually that a player goes through his career without getting noticed and then suddenly turns into a world beater over night - like Jamie Vardy.

      The first time I saw Jay Spearing play for Liverpool I knew he wouldn't make it. I can say the same about several of our current youth players and would be happy to place a bet with you right now and see where they are in 5 years time. Seems pointless though as you've confessed yourself they aren't good enough yet you insist on playing them?





      Same here with Jay and others since him I question the cost and the benefit to the club of the Academy. Whats that old adage if your good enough your old enough . When you think about how the club uses its valuable resources i.e the Academy and the Scouting dept its quite depressing can you imagine the design dept. of jaguar or Ferrari not coming up with a new model for 15 years or so.
      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #24: Feb 08, 2016 02:55:22 pm
      So while you admit that our youth players aren't good enough we should just go ahead and play them anyway? Why?

      They might look half decent playing in an U21 or an U18s game but putting them on the Anfield pitch with 45,000 spectators and playing against a proper experienced PL side then its a completely different game. How is it a ridiculous statement? Usually you can tell pretty much immediately if a player is special. Owen, Fowler, Gerrard all had that magic about them. Rooney did at the blueshite. Even defenders like Ashley Cole & John Terry were special when they broke into their senior teams. Everton signed a 19 year old Stones who looked special straight away. Its more rare actually that a player goes through his career without getting noticed and then suddenly turns into a world beater over night - like Jamie Vardy.

      The first time I saw Jay Spearing play for Liverpool I knew he wouldn't make it. I can say the same about several of our current youth players and would be happy to place a bet with you right now and see where they are in 5 years time. Seems pointless though as you've confessed yourself they aren't good enough yet you insist on playing them?





      You mean like they did against WH, you know that PL team that are currently 4 points and 4 places above us in the league or doesn't that count because on the day WH were crap.

      Not one of them let us down.  Not one of them made a mistake that lead to us losing the game.  Not one of them continual mistakes throughout the game that meant we didn't win it.

      What exactly do you expect from them?  They achieved something our so called strongest/best 11 have failed to do twice already this season.

      As already stated many times in this thread, it's about introducing one or two players who may well be good enough in the future so that we can rotate and rest those senior players that need a rest, this isn't about playing an u21s/u18s starting 11.

      reddebs
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #25: Feb 08, 2016 03:01:02 pm
      Same here with Jay and others since him I question the cost and the benefit to the club of the Academy. Whats that old adage if your good enough your old enough . When you think about how the club uses its valuable resources i.e the Academy and the Scouting dept its quite depressing can you imagine the design dept. of jaguar or Ferrari not coming up with a new model for 15 years or so.

      FOR FUCKS SAKE - THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS NOT F***ing MACHINES THAT CAN BE DESIGNED IN A F***ing FACTORY OR GROWN IN A F***ing TEST TUBE.

      How many of you all seeing, all knowing fans thought Carra was good enough at 18.  He admits himself he wasn't but through sheer hard work and determination he F***ing was good enough and good enough for a very long career.

      GIVE THE KIDS A F***ing CHANCE AND THANKS FOR PUTTING ME IN THE BIGGEST F**k OFF MOOD IVE BEEN IN FOR YEARS  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

      I'm done with all this sh*t, fine none of you think we have anybody coming through, let's go spunk another £20m quid on an up and comer who never plays in his preferred position and gets sent to Turkey to get him out of the managers way.

      THAT'S A FANTASTIC WAY TO BUILD A F***ing SQUAD  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #26: Feb 08, 2016 03:19:27 pm
      Has reddebs gone yet?  :couch:
      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #27: Feb 08, 2016 03:54:04 pm

      your such a whimp .
      Many years ago I had an Auntie who new all the first teams birthdays and she would send them cards and one thing you never did is bad mouth one of her boys.
      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #28: Feb 08, 2016 03:59:45 pm
      FOR FUCKS SAKE - THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS NOT F***ing MACHINES THAT CAN BE DESIGNED IN A F***ing FACTORY OR GROWN IN A F***ing TEST TUBE.

      How many of you all seeing, all knowing fans thought Carra was good enough at 18.  He admits himself he wasn't but through sheer hard work and determination he f**king was good enough and good enough for a very long career.

      GIVE THE KIDS A F***ing CHANCE AND THANKS FOR PUTTING ME IN THE BIGGEST F**k OFF MOOD IVE BEEN IN FOR YEARS  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

      I'm done with all this sh*t, fine none of you think we have anybody coming through, let's go spunk another £20m quid on an up and comer who never plays in his preferred position and gets sent to Turkey to get him out of the managers way.

      THAT'S A FANTASTIC WAY TO BUILD A F***ing SQUAD  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

      how many have we had since Stevie? and what resources has that taken. In other posts I advocate not buying players for the usual £7mil or so until we have exhausted the potential in the Academy. But we don't use the Academy do we the best that happens is we loan them out so when the Academy lads look at the first team what goes through there mind because it will not be looking up to the former Academy lads doing well. Someone else said it don't shoot the messenger but we cant have it both ways they are either good enough for the club or they are not how they themselves show this is open for debate. Until John Flanno came back how many scousers in the first team squad playing regularly?.
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #29: Feb 08, 2016 04:04:35 pm
      I've no idea what Jamie Vardy has got to do with this thread.

      Well, you keep mentioning that some of our Youth Players arent good enough. Vardy is 29 years old - top scorer in the League this season and 3 years ago was playing at Fleetwood. Fleetwood at 25 years old... Many would have said he was a 'League 1 Player at best' but look at him today. I dont understand how you can write off these players who have hardly touched a ball in the prem at 19 or younger...

      Its not about F***ing it off and playing kids - its about using a bad situation to develop the players we have before we go and spend a shitload on players.

      On the money side of things - this is not really the point... We are 9th in the league and watch a bunch of players on £60,000+ play badly each week. I would rather spend my money watching a player work his socks off given the opportunity to in oppose to watching what I have seen this season.

      In 2 years when we have had no players of note come through people will be asking why - the reality is some fans want it all too soon and wont let anything be built. Look at Chelsea, when did they last produce a player - why bother when you ca just through money around. What good does that do for football and how long is it sustainable?
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #30: Feb 08, 2016 04:06:42 pm
      how many have we had since Stevie? and what resources has that taken. In other posts I advocate not buying players for the usual £7mil or so until we have exhausted the potential in the Academy. But we don't use the Academy do we the best that happens is we loan them out so when the Academy lads look at the first team what goes through there mind because it will not be looking up to the former Academy lads doing well. Someone else said it don't shoot the messenger but we cant have it both ways they are either good enough for the club or they are not how they themselves show this is open for debate. Until John Flanno came back how many scousers in the first team squad playing regularly?.

      How many were given the chance? I think we (and many other clubs) have put kids on the scrapheap because the team they play for can go out and spank £30 Million on a finished player.

      Another point I made is that if these lads get game time and dont make it would this add value to their transfers? If so, then you again benefit...

      Anyway, it was only me 2 pence...
      MIRO
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #31: Feb 08, 2016 08:09:14 pm
      What a DM who can actually run, nah the faithful will hate it!

      Or a DM that can really tackle  . Must be another Mascher out there  H .
      HScRed1
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #32: Feb 08, 2016 08:14:53 pm
      Or a DM that can really tackle  . Must be another Mascher out there  H .

      Funny you say that Euro because Masch has said he does not want to end his career at Barca. Would he come back?

      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #33: Feb 08, 2016 08:18:53 pm
      Funny you say that Euro because Masch has said he does not want to end his career at Barca. Would he come back?



      They don't make them like Mascherano anymore. The man literally tore his asshole playing for Argentina in the World Cup.
      HScRed1
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #34: Feb 08, 2016 08:20:07 pm
      They don't make them like Mascherano anymore. The man literally tore his asshole playing for Argentina in the World Cup.

       :D


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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #35: Feb 08, 2016 08:36:46 pm
      I have been mulling this over for a while, and I believe that we are in a very unique position as a club -  and it could if we are clever really play into our hands for next season...

      Lets be honest, our season has gone a little differently than we would have liked with a manager sacked and a significant injury list. With 13 games left we sit in 9th place with a 12 point gap to the covered 4th spot and Champs League. We, by virtue of the League Cup, have a spot in the Europa (unless City drop 6 points to Utd and fall out of CL places) so no real need to push for 5th place.

      So – why don’t we start blooding some of these young players in and giving the first team players a chance to get back to full fitness and be ready for the new season.

      Im not saying throw the towel in, far from it... I also appreciate that some of the first team will want / need games to keep in form and upto the level they are used too – the FA cup and Europa will become their competitions in essence.

      The benefits for me outweigh the risks;

      We could unearth a few gems in the youth setup (Tex, Yesil, Brannagan, Illori)
            If we don’t, we put a lot of players who may never make it in the shop window to bolster transfer funds

         Out First team players will be a lot fitter and used to the pressure of the new style for next season (Sturridge, Origi, Hendo)
            They can adapt their training for this system to be ready for this from now to September
         
         The cups will get the best players with a chance we may even be able to field very strong teams without injury worries
            No issues on 3 games a week for some players as the rotation would be massive

      I know this wont happen but even on a smaller scale would this not be worth us trying to do..?

      i like the understatement of things have gone a bit differently than hoped, but i don't agree, love to see young lads involved but i think if they are good they will get a go anyway.
      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #36: Feb 08, 2016 08:38:24 pm
      How many were given the chance? I think we (and many other clubs) have put kids on the scrapheap because the team they play for can go out and spank £30 Million on a finished player.

      Another point I made is that if these lads get game time and dont make it would this add value to their transfers? If so, then you again benefit...

      Anyway, it was only me 2 pence...

      but if they were good but just needed a chance how many left Liverpool and became a success?. by the way its not just our club is it.
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #37: Feb 08, 2016 08:56:04 pm
      but if they were good but just needed a chance how many left Liverpool and became a success?. by the way its not just our club is it.

      Totally agree its not just Liverpool...

      I wonder how many players have been passed up because of a few moments playing at the top level at the very beginning of their career and indeed lives!

      My main thoughts are about trying to take something from a pretty dross season. The only time I see the youth players getting a chance is in preseason and the last 2 games each season. I wonder how many could do something if given a run of 3 or 4 games.

      These lads got to where they are because they have talent - they are playing against kids in there age group and performing well. Surely, there must be some talent waiting to break through given the chance?
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #38: Feb 08, 2016 08:58:58 pm
      Brannagan I would like to see get some more game time. The rest I can take or leave to be honest.
      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #39: Feb 08, 2016 09:00:49 pm
      Totally agree its not just Liverpool...

      I wonder how many players have been passed up because of a few moments playing at the top level at the very beginning of their career and indeed lives!

      My main thoughts are about trying to take something from a pretty dross season. The only time I see the youth players getting a chance is in preseason and the last 2 games each season. I wonder how many could do something if given a run of 3 or 4 games.

      These lads got to where they are because they have talent - they are playing against kids in there age group and performing well. Surely, there must be some talent waiting to break through given the chance?

      One problem I consider is fundamental is the gap between playing in the U21 and the premier league is just too big a jump the old reserve teams had a mixture of older players and younger players and I am sure that maybe a league with a mixture of youth and older players may help them
      waltonl4
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #40: Feb 08, 2016 09:01:37 pm
      Brannagan I would like to see get some more game time. The rest I can take or leave to be honest.

      I like young Smith he has a very good left foot and here is the thing he can f***in defend
      Magillionare
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #41: Feb 08, 2016 09:04:44 pm
      I like young Smith he has a very good left foot and here is the thing he can f***in defend

      Aye he looks decent, he'd be one where I wouldn't be annoyed if I seen him in the line-up but with Brannagan I would be actively happy to see his selection (if that makes sense)
      MIRO
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #42: Feb 08, 2016 09:45:26 pm
      Funny you say that Euro because Masch has said he does not want to end his career at Barca. Would he come back?



      Probably not   .... but you can dream.

      A DM is one of a spine of three that we need.
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #43: Feb 08, 2016 09:57:42 pm
      I have been mulling this over for a while, and I believe that we are in a very unique position as a club -  and it could if we are clever really play into our hands for next season...

      Lets be honest, our season has gone a little differently than we would have liked with a manager sacked and a significant injury list. With 13 games left we sit in 9th place with a 12 point gap to the covered 4th spot and Champs League. We, by virtue of the League Cup, have a spot in the Europa (unless City drop 6 points to Utd and fall out of CL places) so no real need to push for 5th place.

      So – why don’t we start blooding some of these young players in and giving the first team players a chance to get back to full fitness and be ready for the new season.

      Im not saying throw the towel in, far from it... I also appreciate that some of the first team will want / need games to keep in form and upto the level they are used too – the FA cup and Europa will become their competitions in essence.

      The benefits for me outweigh the risks;

      We could unearth a few gems in the youth setup (Tex, Yesil, Brannagan, Illori)
            If we don’t, we put a lot of players who may never make it in the shop window to bolster transfer funds

         Out First team players will be a lot fitter and used to the pressure of the new style for next season (Sturridge, Origi, Hendo)
            They can adapt their training for this system to be ready for this from now to September
         
         The cups will get the best players with a chance we may even be able to field very strong teams without injury worries
            No issues on 3 games a week for some players as the rotation would be massive

      I know this wont happen but even on a smaller scale would this not be worth us trying to do..?
      I've thought the same too mate , whether we finish 9th or 12th it doesn't really matter at this stage . The main thing is that we make the best of what we have and at the moment our situation isn't great so if we get a chance to blood those young lads then i'm all for it .

      johnlfcreds2010
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #44: Feb 08, 2016 10:05:37 pm
      we should play the best,fittest players we have , resting players occasionally to freshen things up for the next game. Young , old , it makes no difference , we must try to win every game we can ,with what we have and what we face, otherwise what is the point .
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #45: Feb 08, 2016 10:26:59 pm
      Interesting point, OP, and interesting timing too.
      Not sure how FSG/Ayre will see it at a time when they're looking to justify ticket price rises, if JK drops some of the millionaires and replaces them with teenagers!  It's one of those gambles that big clubs are so fearful of these days.  The brand mentality means that the tourists expect to see big name stars when they show up for their once in a lifetime visit!

      I like the idea.  It's vital to me that we bring in young talent from the Academy, as it adds impetus and desire, as well as letting the underperforming shoe-ins know that they don't have a divine right to a starting place.  Some clubs are good at it - Southampton spring to mind - didn't do them any harm.

      I think we'd be lucky to see more than one (two occasionally) come in.  For me it's be Ojo and Smith, but Branagan deserves a crack at it too.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #46: Feb 09, 2016 12:31:48 am
      Quote from Hollywood Balls
      It would be a big decision.

      It would be irresponsible.

      These players were found wanting against Exeter and Carlisle, and now we think they're the answer against Chelsea and City's superstars, and up to the pressure of the derby and Spurs? Furthermore, playing them all at once is basically telling them that they're only there because more senior players need to put their feet up for the night. How is that supposed to motivate them? We've already seen Sinclair's response. Teixeira may soon follow. Smith wanted out not that long ago too.

      The goal for them should be to breakthrough to the senior side when they've got more experienced players there to help them out. That's how Gerrard made it, how Fowler made it, and Owen made it. That's the right way to do it, not put a team of them out there once/twice a year, see they're not ready for the step up, and we never see them again.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #47: Feb 09, 2016 12:45:35 am
      your such a whimp .
      Many years ago I had an Auntie who new all the first teams birthdays and she would send them cards and one thing you never did is bad mouth one of her boys.

      Was that Auntie Deb?
      king kenny
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #48: Feb 09, 2016 01:13:55 am
      We have given them opportunities in the Cups and they have done well we use a couple in the league now, why not.  I think we should start though with Ward and maybe Smith.  Simple Simon has been poor and so has the defense. 
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #49: Feb 09, 2016 01:38:41 am
      It would be irresponsible.

      These players were found wanting against Exeter and Carlisle, and now we think they're the answer against Chelsea and City's superstars, and up to the pressure of the derby and Spurs? Furthermore, playing them all at once is basically telling them that they're only there because more senior players need to put their feet up for the night. How is that supposed to motivate them? We've already seen Sinclair's response. Teixeira may soon follow. Smith wanted out not that long ago too.

      The goal for them should be to breakthrough to the senior side when they've got more experienced players there to help them out. That's how Gerrard made it, how Fowler made it, and Owen made it. That's the right way to do it, not put a team of them out there once/twice a year, see they're not ready for the step up, and we never see them again.

      I think it was made clear a few times already in the thread that no-one is talking sbout "playing them all at once".

      Youre talking about something else entirely.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #50: Feb 09, 2016 01:52:22 am
      I think most would advocate for the likes of Ward, Ilori, Smith, Brannagan, and Tex being given a shot in the league games.  I think we just need to do it cautiously.  Maybe one game we give Smith and Tex a chance.  Then the next give Ward and Brannagan a chance, and so on....  If the youngsters perform better than their senior counterparts, then they keep their place.  Simple really :)
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #51: Feb 09, 2016 03:01:19 am
      I like young Smith he has a very good left foot and here is the thing he can f***in defend


      When have we actually seen him defend...
      AussieRed
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #52: Feb 09, 2016 06:33:04 am
      Brannagan I would like to see get some more game time. The rest I can take or leave to be honest.

      I really want to see what Ojo can give us. That goal he curled in with his left peg was a peach and every time he gets a small cameo, he looks like he can produce the goods. Why isn't he even on the bench a little more regurarly?
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #53: Feb 09, 2016 06:43:46 am
      I really want to see what Ojo can give us. That goal he curled in with his left peg was a peach and every time he gets a small cameo, he looks like he can produce the goods. Why isn't he even on the bench a little more regurarly?


      I'd like to see more of Ojo too especially considering the lack of pace in the side. Him running at tired legs could be interesting.
      AussieRed
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #54: Feb 09, 2016 06:46:33 am

      I'd like to see more of Ojo too especially considering the lack of pace in the side. Him running at tired legs could be interesting.

      Any chance he'll be in the side to face West Ham? Heard any mentions or leaked line ups?
      BarneyLFC
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #55: Feb 09, 2016 07:05:37 am
      Any chance he'll be in the side to face West Ham? Heard any mentions or leaked line ups?

      He's traveled with the squad according to James Pearce. No word on whether he'll start or be on the bench.
      s@int
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #56: Feb 09, 2016 07:34:06 am
      Any chance he'll be in the side to face West Ham? Heard any mentions or leaked line ups?

      Toni Gomes, Conor Masterson, Yan Dhanda, Pedro Chirivella and Sheyi Ojo all trained with the LFC first team yesterday.

      Obviously doesn't mean they will be in the team or even on the bench.
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #57: Feb 09, 2016 07:43:43 am
      Hoping tonight a few of the lads get a run out - not all 11 replaced of course but a few... Ojo has done really well when he has played, im not sure why he is behind Ibe at this time as he seems to do better when he comes on.

      What surprises me is how undervalued the cup has become. Many are happy for us to put out a 'younger' side tonight and lose (home or away) and no one questions ticket prices etc etc. But for a league game it seems like its totally out of the question to do this... Thing is, we have more chance of winning the FA Cup than we do the league.
      billythered
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #58: Feb 09, 2016 08:00:48 am
      Don't rate Lallana or Milner to be honest but I'm not confident Ojo or Kent have what it takes to play for Liverpool either from what I've seen of them so far.



      f***in glad your not boss mate, the point of the fella is making is a decent one Tbf, the likes of Lallana,Can Moreno etc are also miles off being worthy of wearing the shirt,  so why not involve one or two of those kids,
      They would give more imo than those already privileged to do so,but in all honesty have been pretty dire for so called seasoned professionals,

      I agree, give the kids a go,let's face we've hardly got a lot to lose have we?


      YNWA
      HScRed1
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #59: Feb 09, 2016 08:04:39 am

      When have we actually seen him defend...

      Same question could be asked of Moreno.

      AussieRed
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #60: Feb 09, 2016 09:25:46 am
      He's traveled with the squad according to James Pearce. No word on whether he'll start or be on the bench.

      Toni Gomes, Conor Masterson, Yan Dhanda, Pedro Chirivella and Sheyi Ojo all trained with the LFC first team yesterday.

      Obviously doesn't mean they will be in the team or even on the bench.

      Cheers lads, hope he gets some minutes and shows us what he can offer if he's given a chance.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #61: Feb 09, 2016 12:49:30 pm
      I have been mulling this over for a while, and I believe that we are in a very unique position as a club -  and it could if we are clever really play into our hands for next season...

      Lets be honest, our season has gone a little differently than we would have liked with a manager sacked and a significant injury list. With 13 games left we sit in 9th place with a 12 point gap to the covered 4th spot and Champs League. We, by virtue of the League Cup, have a spot in the Europa (unless City drop 6 points to Utd and fall out of CL places) so no real need to push for 5th place.

      So – why don’t we start blooding some of these young players in and giving the first team players a chance to get back to full fitness and be ready for the new season.

      Im not saying throw the towel in, far from it... I also appreciate that some of the first team will want / need games to keep in form and upto the level they are used too – the FA cup and Europa will become their competitions in essence.

      The benefits for me outweigh the risks;

      We could unearth a few gems in the youth setup (Tex, Yesil, Brannagan, Illori)
            If we don’t, we put a lot of players who may never make it in the shop window to bolster transfer funds

         Out First team players will be a lot fitter and used to the pressure of the new style for next season (Sturridge, Origi, Hendo)
            They can adapt their training for this system to be ready for this from now to September
         
         The cups will get the best players with a chance we may even be able to field very strong teams without injury worries
            No issues on 3 games a week for some players as the rotation would be massive

      I know this wont happen but even on a smaller scale would this not be worth us trying to do..?
      I see nothing wrong in what you are suggesting,Except I personally would leave the FA Cup to the youth, (after all they showed the fight to get us here).... I believe that any manager worth their salt will examine ALL possibilities....

      But I believe what we really are missing (Besides Quality through out the squad) Are a couple of scourers in the team, regularly, who are vocal. Even (IMO) if they lack real quality they would make up for it in pride in the shirt,determination, and most of all some real fight. If they are only slightly above average this can lift the team and spur them on, bring out that extra in players.

      Who can forget the part one Jamie Carragher played in the CL final. Suffering from cramp yet still throwing himself in there, or many other match through out his career....Jamie  Carragher (for me at least) typified what it should mean to be a Liverpool Player. Bringing it all week in week out... We have seen it most of the last two seasons a players like Joe Allen average Joe,but willing to work and then on the other side of that coin two players with a enormous amounts of talent but unwilling to put in the effort needed, Mario.B and Christen.B.....

      Yes give the youth a try... They might surprise some people... at worst; we get a better insight to the areas were we need players

      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #62: Feb 09, 2016 12:59:02 pm
      I've no idea what Jamie Vardy has got to do with this thread.
      I think the point he was making was that Vardy was not given a real chance, like most of the youth under various managers, and Leicester took a gamble and look at him now.... Mahrez was playing second division football in French again look at him now... Man Utd go rid of Pobga without giving him a chance...
      « Last Edit: Feb 09, 2016 04:15:54 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      Passportboy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #63: Feb 09, 2016 10:33:10 pm
      Lads tonight did really well, shame about the result that was (in my opinion) lost by senior players.

      Positives, we have 3 players that wouldnt look out of place in a number of prem teams with Smith, Stewart & Chirivella. Illori deserves a few games too between now and the end of the season too.

      Would love to see this in a few league games - they showed tonight they can handle the pressure and I would say there was a lot more away at West Ham than home against Villa...
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: A Unique Position
      Reply #64: Feb 10, 2016 05:44:52 pm
      Yes, we have some very good lads coming through who we WILL lose if we don't give them a few chances in the league.
      Talkshite radio have been asking for listeners to comment on Klopp's 'weakened team' last night.  I actually found after 128 mins that I was watching a STRENGTHENED team.  We had a defence that was organized and well-marshaled, a midfield that was in position defensively and quick but disciplined going forward, a few attacking players who got their heads up and were quicker to see opportunities, and we had intelligent movement.  Leadership?  Step up Samii Lucas.  Determination? Step up Mr Stewart.  Vision? Step up Messrs Chirivella and Coutinho. 
      We now have a list of young guys who, in my opinion, are at the stage where they either stay and thrive as proper LFC players, or disappear.  The only decider on that score is whether any of them get picked to play; and Herr Klopp NEEDS to do it, or for me at least, he'll lose a lot of credibility, given the below par performances we've seen from the first XI.

      Smith
      Chirivella
      Texeira
      Stewart
      Brannagan
      Ojo

      There might just be a club legend in there.  We won't know for another 5 or 6 years, and that's IF they get picked!

       

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