West Ham 2:1 Liverpool (AET): In Game & Post Game Discussions

Had to work so missed the game last night.

Reading through the comments it sounded like we performed pretty well but as usual Benteke was useless? Disappointing to see that we conceded a goal in the 120th minute and from a set piece too. Liverpool that.

Has anybody got a link with the highlights on please?

Came back from work late last night and watched the game avoiding the score. From our very first silky attack we almost scored from until the end it was one of the best games of the season. Just cruel in the end but Id recommend to watch it to anyone, so many positives to take.

Managed to see just the goals and a separate link to 'Bentekes misses in extra time only'.

The first goal was criminal. Awful, shocking defending.  First of all Payet has all the time in the world and isn't closed down at all. He passes inside the Valencia who skips past two of our defenders inside the box with ease. He whips the ball in and Antonio is unmarked back post with a tap in. School boy stuff.

Fair play to Benteke for winning that free kick with four defenders around him. All he could do was win a free kick and he did. Coutinho miss hit it in my opinion and meant to get height but scuffed it along the floor and luckily it went in.

The second goal was never a free kick, Lucas was just stronger. If that had been Lovren, a big tall strong centre half, then I don't think the ref gives it. But because it was little lucas the ref feels there is a shove because he out muscles their forward that much who puts on a bit of an act. There was f**k all wrong with that challenge though.

Great delivery and a great header it has to be said. When I saw that we had conceded to a set piece I thought same old story but seeing that goal I don't think our defenders can be blamed for being out jumped by Ogbonna and I don't think Mignolet can be blamed at all either. It was just a good goal.

The clip of Bentekes misses in extra time was quite comical. I know his confidence is shot but even so. I've just had a watch of his 49 goals for villa (YES IM THAT SAD)  and I counted 42 of his goals were scored inside the box. He very rarely scores outside. 3 or 4 of those were on the edge of the box too but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and let him have them outside the box. The vast majority of his goals unsurprisingly were from corners or crosses which were great deliveries. He scored half a dozen or so penalties too. There were very few goals (just 1 or 2)  that involved any kind of dribbling and beating a man and then finishing. Again there were only just 1 or 2 absolute screamers that he hit too. His goals were mostly chances that fell to his lap which he tapped in, some were nice finishes and he still had bits of work to do, but a lot of them were handed to him on a plate.

At Liverpool we don't create the type of chances Benteke craves. First of all we never whip a corner in properly. Secondly some of his goals at villa were crosses from full backs forty, fifty yards away and we never lump the ball into the box like that either. Unless you whip a ball in to the six yard box then Benteke isn't scoring for you. All this build up and link up play and pass and move and doing through balls is absolutely pointless with Benteke in the team, he isn't a natural link up man or a natural finisher.

Its not his fault he was signed but we should never have spent so much money on a player who is the complete opposite of the type we need.

More or less what everyone on these boards said prior to his signature.

Clearly, we know better than the well paid TC do...

Such a tough one to take, being so close to penalties and all. It would have been so much easier of a loss to take in penalties than a last minute goal like that. West Ham just has our number this season apparently. but, some positives to take away:
-Lucas was a boss, and I think should seriously be considered there from now on. He outperformed any other CB at that position for the last 3-4 weeks.
-The 2 fullbacks have been great when given the chance. Smith I think edges our Moreno at the moment (how much ground did the kid cover last night, wow) and it's a toss up between Clyne and Flanno for me. I love them both, but Flanno edges for me out of pure physicality alone.
-Stewart looks so promising to me. He's had two good games against West Ham now. What has Can or Hendo done the last 3- weeks against arguably less opponents, to cement their spot ahead of this kid? He's tough and will only get better.
-Couts is back, god how we have missed him.
-Studge is back, showing glimpses of the player he could be for us if he only would man up and play.
-And I personally do not like Benteke in this team, and I believe he should've have put away at least 2-3 goals, but his movement was better and he found himself on the end of chances at least. At least he didn't stand completely still with no effect on the game whatsoever.

We NEED to make a statement at Villa and set things on the right track. The way this season is going, you never know what a good run of 5-6 games could do. But it needs to start NOW.

And as a parting side note, how telling is it that Klopp took Tex off early and not Ibe or Benteke. I don't think Klopp rates him at all, as it would have ben the perfect spot to take Couts and Benteke off, Tex play #10 and go 4-4-2 with Studge and Origi up top.

Such a tough one to take, being so close to penalties and all. It would have been so much easier of a loss to take in penalties than a last minute goal like that. West Ham just has our number this season apparently. but, some positives to take away:
-Lucas was a boss, and I think should seriously be considered there from now on. He outperformed any other CB at that position for the last 3-4 weeks.
-The 2 fullbacks have been great when given the chance. Smith I think edges our Moreno at the moment (how much ground did the kid cover last night, wow) and it's a toss up between Clyne and Flanno for me. I love them both, but Flanno edges for me out of pure physicality alone.
-Stewart looks so promising to me. He's had two good games against West Ham now. What has Can or Hendo done the last 3- weeks against arguably less opponents, to cement their spot ahead of this kid? He's tough and will only get better.
-Couts is back, god how we have missed him.
-Studge is back, showing glimpses of the player he could be for us if he only would man up and play.
-And I personally do not like Benteke in this team, and I believe he should've have put away at least 2-3 goals, but his movement was better and he found himself on the end of chances at least. At least he didn't stand completely still with no effect on the game whatsoever.

We NEED to make a statement at Villa and set things on the right track. The way this season is going, you never know what a good run of 5-6 games could do. But it needs to start NOW.

And as a parting side note, how telling is it that Klopp took Tex off early and not Ibe or Benteke. I don't think Klopp rates him at all, as it would have ben the perfect spot to take Couts and Benteke off, Tex play #10 and go 4-4-2 with Studge and Origi up top.

Agree with pretty much every word of that.

First time all season I have seen someone in our back four actually, trying to organize, communicate, and yell when needed.

Far as I am concerned Lucas can stay back there for the rest of the season... He did more in one match than.the rest of our CB's have done all year.

I say put the fuuuuukers in championship by winning this and giving Benteke back to them.

Thought Origi was poor enough when he came on. And WH got a little more control of the midfield as result. In hindsight maybe throwing Hendo on instead might have been better, get better hold in the middle. Origi did stretch them a bit, but he didn't contribute a whole lot.
Still picturing Benteke through on keeper ... and hitting it at his legs!!!!!!!! Urgh...

Had a look back at the game this aft, and I think taking off Coutinho AND Tex (instead of Ibe) made it easier for them to come at us - 'til then, their mids were on the back foot, mainly.

Also, I've not been an apologist for Big Ben generally, but that was a damn good show from him in every dept except goals.  He was boss.  I expect to cop a bit of stick for saying it (fair enough) but Sturridge and him made a pretty effective double act considering how little they've played together.  Studge (who was amazing) looked exasperated at the big lad's inability to find the net, but...  One goal, and the return of his confidence, and (whisper it) we might just be looking at Benteke forming some kind of decent strike partnership with Studge! 

Yes I know...!  IF we can keep Studge fit.  IF Benteke can GET a goal.  IF IF IF...

But I remember a big guy called Dejan Lovren, and his mate little Joey Allen.  They used to get absolutely caned for poor performances.  Now they get (mostly) praise for good ones. 

None of our lads are (love this word so much) "SH!TE!" at all.  Circumstances and performances vary - there are so many variables, and (me being my usual POSITIVE self) Benteke's will improve significantly, I'm sure.  (Where's me shield?).

Had a look back at the game this aft, and I think taking off Coutinho AND Tex (instead of Ibe) made it easier for them to come at us - 'til then, their mids were on the back foot, mainly.

Also, I've not been an apologist for Big Ben generally, but that was a damn good show from him in every dept except goals.  He was boss.  I expect to cop a bit of stick for saying it (fair enough) but Sturridge and him made a pretty effective double act considering how little they've played together.  Studge (who was amazing) looked exasperated at the big lad's inability to find the net, but...  One goal, and the return of his confidence, and (whisper it) we might just be looking at Benteke forming some kind of decent strike partnership with Studge! 

Yes I know...!  IF we can keep Studge fit.  IF Benteke can GET a goal.  IF IF IF...

But I remember a big guy called Dejan Lovren, and his mate little Joey Allen.  They used to get absolutely caned for poor performances.  Now they get (mostly) praise for good ones. 

None of our lads are (love this word so much) "SH!TE!" at all.  Circumstances and performances vary - there are so many variables, and (me being my usual POSITIVE self) Benteke's will improve significantly, I'm sure.  (Where's me shield?).

Benteke looked far more comfortable with Danny around to help. But Firmino and Danny will form a brilliant strike force. Both are so skillful and have the necessary game intelligence to make the difference.

Benteke looked far more comfortable with Danny around to help. But Firmino and Danny will form a brilliant strike force. Both are so skillful and have the necessary game intelligence to make the difference.

I don't disagree, mate, but its just occurred to me that the way we had 3 strikers on last night with Sturridge, Origi and Benteke might be the way JK looks to play with a fit Sturridge and Firmino in place of Origi.  It works for Barca (OK I know they're vastly better players!), but I can't see many defences coping with our three when all are fit and playing well.  Plus it gives us options on HOW to attack, instead of being the one-dimensional attacking 'threat' we've been for months.  Its what I'd do, anyway.

Like I said, WH players went down at ANY opportunity if you're alluding to the Ilori "grab". Every single game week in, week out from corners, Free kicks etc, you'll see players "grappling" with each other and NOT ONE penalty ever gets awarded. So why should it have this time? Because Valencia chucked himself to the floor?

Also bear in mind that if he was dragged back, he would at least of fallen on his arse, not theatrically dived forwards. Was attempting to con the officials, nothing more although some of the commentators fell for it!

So what was Smalling pulled for the other week ? Agree it goes on but fact remains it was a pen

[quote author=HamannsTheMan link=topic=48524.msg1892237#msg1892237 date=1455102041All he could do was win a free kick and he did. Coutinho miss hit it in my opinion and meant to get height but scuffed it along the floor and luckily it went in.

The second goal was never a free kick, Lucas was just stronger. If that had been Lovren, a big tall strong centre half, then I don't think the ref gives it. But because it was little lucas the ref feels there is a shove because he out muscles their forward that much who puts on a bit of an act. There was f**k all wrong with that challenge though.

Great delivery and a great header it has to be said. When I saw that we had conceded to a set piece I thought same old story but seeing that goal I don't think our defenders can be blamed for being out jumped by Ogbonna and I don't think Mignolet can be blamed at all either. It was just a good goal.

The clip of Bentekes misses in extra time was quite comical. I know his confidence is shot but even so. I've just had a watch of his 49 goals for villa (YES IM THAT SAD)  and I counted 42 of his goals were scored inside the box. He very rarely scores outside. 3 or 4 of those were on the edge of the box too but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and let him have them outside the box. The vast majority of his goals unsurprisingly were from corners or crosses which were great deliveries. He scored half a dozen or so penalties too. There were very few goals (just 1 or 2)  that involved any kind of dribbling and beating a man and then finishing. Again there were only just 1 or 2 absolute screamers that he hit too. His goals were mostly chances that fell to his lap which he tapped in, some were nice finishes and he still had bits of work to do, but a lot of them were handed to him on a plate.

At Liverpool we don't create the type of chances Benteke craves. First of all we never whip a corner in properly. Secondly some of his goals at villa were crosses from full backs forty, fifty yards away and we never lump the ball into the box like that either. Unless you whip a ball in to the six yard box then Benteke isn't scoring for you. All this build up and link up play and pass and move and doing through balls is absolutely pointless with Benteke in the team, he isn't a natural link up man or a natural finisher.

Its not his fault he was signed but we should never have spent so much money on a player who is the complete opposite of the type we need.
[/quote]

Seriously Coutinho mishit it ?

Absolutely spot on this.

Course it is, I wrote it.

I don't disagree, mate, but its just occurred to me that the way we had 3 strikers on last night with Sturridge, Origi and Benteke might be the way JK looks to play with a fit Sturridge and Firmino in place of Origi.  It works for Barca (OK I know they're vastly better players!), but I can't see many defences coping with our three when all are fit and playing well.  Plus it gives us options on HOW to attack, instead of being the one-dimensional attacking 'threat' we've been for months.  Its what I'd do, anyway.

Do you reckon Benteke is our Suarez 

Do you reckon Benteke is our Suarez 

Of course not, they don't even belong in the same sentence! 
But Sturridge could be, which would make Benteke our Neymar and Firmino our Messi!

Please don't come back at me for that, I'm kidding!

Of course not, they don't even belong in the same sentence! 
But Sturridge could be, which would make Benteke our Neymar and Firmino our Messi!

Please don't come back at me for that, I'm kidding!

 

Of course not, they don't even belong in the same sentence! 
But Sturridge could be, which would make Benteke our Neymar and Firmino our Messi!

Please don't come back at me for that, I'm kidding!

Don't forget about Balotelli, he's like having Ronaldo on the bench! (once he comes back)

Don't forget about Balotelli, he's like having Ronaldo on the bench! (once he comes back)

Balotelli and Ronaldo!  Two human beings I wouldn't have at this club, mate, but yep it's getting barmy isn't it!!

I was talking to John Hunt (racecourse commentator and West Ham sth) at Kempton earlier tonight.He thought we were the "better side on the night" He also reckons he "saw a spark last night" and will be backing Liverpool over the next four games.
I'd go along with that.

I was talking to John Hunt (racecourse commentator and West Ham sth) at Kempton earlier tonight.He thought we were the "better side on the night" He also reckons he "saw a spark last night" and will be backing Liverpool over the next four games.
I'd go along with that.

Ahhh yes John Hunt. Listen to 5 Live Sport quite often - great commentator on the horse racing.

I was talking to John Hunt (racecourse commentator and West Ham sth) at Kempton earlier tonight.He thought we were the "better side on the night" He also reckons he "saw a spark last night" and will be backing Liverpool over the next four games.
I'd go along with that.

We were marginally better.

The inclusion of Sturridge & Coutinho saw us go through the gears, and even Benteke's all round play was better. However, those young lads who played deserve credit too and the likes of Stewart, Smith, Pedro (maybe) & Brannagan deserve making the first team against Villa on Saturday.

The return of Sturridge and Coutinho will only hide/cover the failing deficiencies the likes of Can, Milner (to an extent), Henderson and Lallana have frequently shown us this season. They don't IMHO deserve to have their arses wiped and covered for them by our better players. If our captain, vice captain and other midfield players cannot chip in to keep this team successfully functioning when their backs are against the wall (missing players like Studge and Cout), then they're simply not good enough, or deserving enough to come back into the team and brush some of these younger fellas out. Especially, when the younger lads have showed much more competency on the ball with quicker movement and one-touch stuff in midfield. Let's not forget, those young lads also showed more competence in midfield at home to WH than our first team performaners have done all year. Yes, the cutting edge was still lacking but in terms of bossing the midfield with quality passing and movement these kids have twice now proved they are at least up to the bang average-ness of our more experienced players.

I really hope Klopp puts 1-2 (at least) youngsters in for Villa. It will confirm for me that he is willing to pick players on merit. They won't do any worse, the league is now a dead rubber so he may as well look at some of our own prospects who've showed they are at least worthy of a shot, come the weekend.

I was talking to John Hunt (racecourse commentator and West Ham sth) at Kempton earlier tonight.He thought we were the "better side on the night" He also reckons he "saw a spark last night" and will be backing Liverpool over the next four games.
I'd go along with that.

Trouble is, we probably won't see that same team out again for a couple of months now we're out of the cup.

First time all season I have seen someone in our back four actually, trying to organize, communicate, and yell when needed.

Far as I am concerned Lucas can stay back there for the rest of the season... He did more in one match than.the rest of our CB's have done all year.

Couldnt agree more. All people did was pick up on his mistake after 120 mins, but for 119 of them he was immense.